Wrong Way To Run Horn Creek

[@unknowingpoet]

Thanks Skip. I did miss my intended line. I like to bring momentum into this rapid, and turn that momentum to the left, entering just right of the right horn. Most who run right to left like to pull, but I've seen some boatmen have difficulty turning their boat in time to hit the waves straight. On this day I had a heavier bow than I'm accustomed to with 3 passengers. Even a boat width to the left and I would have hit that lateral where it's big but doesn't push the boat right. Here is my normal run: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZW7lnSieZpljbc

[@oxxnarrdflame8865]

Thanks for the explanation. 👍

[@J57133]

I don’t raft but the #1 thing in boats and canoes-balance your load

[@dmeat2430]

Bro just pulling that big ass raft upstream bare hands and a spray skirt on the whole time... fuckin' legend.

[@Esquif100]

Best club-boater video I've seen. The gloves, the hat, full monochrome rain suit, knife in the back of the pfd... Oaring standing up, caught in an eddy, the pants dropping during the flip... So good!

[@fish56789]

Oaring?

[@JessicaTPeterson]

And the belly flop onto the bottom of the boat at the end. Perfection!

[@JEEDUHCHRI]

I appreciate the fact that you left the comment section open. It’s a good way for people to learn. I’ve been seeing so many Grand Canyon videos of complete yahoos who have no business with a set of oars in their hands running stuff way over their skills. And that doesn’t bother me…how else do people figure it out… But when they turn off the comments out of fear of being called total idiots it misses an opportunity to learn from it. I salute you putting up vids.

[@christinacallicott]

I want those kayakers on my team.

[@ryanaronson2874]

Great example of the importance of learning how to row out of an eddy line. He should brace with his upstream oar while stroking continuously with his down stream oar in order to break the eddy line. Tough spot to be in.

[@michaelbarton6002]

Great example of why it makes no sense to row standing up if your boat is not configured for it. Note how hard he is working, and how little leverage it actually creates. Mostly just lifting water out of the river at the back of the boat. Sit down and row!

[@txroseroxtn]

That was intense!! Glad you got my friend Elizabeth off. :)

[@SuperGoober64]

If you want to consistently make the right-to-left line, you really need to catch some of the eddy behind the right horn. Otherwise it's a crapshoot. Front-rowing generates half the power of back-rowing so if you have a tough move to make, back-ferries are a good thing to learn. Kayakers are in and out of eddies all the time and have a good feel for them, so even though no one wants to admit they're in over their skill level, a big gear boat like that is a bear to re-flip. Lessons learned I'm sure.

[@rsberryalta]

Thanks for the video. A tough situation. I've had luck in similar situations just trying to slow things down, wait for the right moment, then pull very, very hard at the top of the eddy. Once or twice I've put two people on each oar for extra power.

[@carriestruble343]

Scott Berry

[@mikewichmann6959]

I can totally relate. Ran it with 2 passengers at a similar water level and couldn't make the right to left move......lateral wave pushed me into the big shore rock, and wham, stuck in the room of doom eddy. Tried with no luck to stroke my way out with 2 passengers...NOT. Then abandoned ship onto shore and attempted to pull raft out of eddy.....very bad idea. Lost the bow line due to boat spinning and wrapping it up around the boat. Biggest mistake we made was not letting the other rafters (downstream) know we were ok. We tried to self rescue first, and that took too much time. a. To them, we were just "gone", hidden from view, for maybe 15 minutes. They were freaked, and rightfully mad. In the meantime empty boat pushes up.the big shore rock and flips with no one on it...... now, upside down boat, no bow line, and oars dragging on bottom, 1 Oar snaps, and rigging straps for gear start to loose and sacrifice gear into the eddy. Next, I grab floating gear and chuck onto the rocks...in the end not losing much, Wisely and finally waved to others downstream for help. Eventually 8 of us pull the upside down boat back into main current and boat ghost floats, upside down to teammates standing by to pull it to shore. Super lucky no injuries or worse. I actually gained alot of confidence AFTER that adversity. But whoa, super dangerous situation. Thank you God.

[@pcmountaindog]

Why would anyone want to forward stroke down the right side of Horn Creek Rapid? I don't want any part of those waves. It takes an early move then 4 huge pulls and you are left of all that stuff. I have run Horn 6 times entering on the right side of the right horn and pulled to the left each time. I don't want any part of the right side of Horn Creek. Glad to see all were safe in the end.

[@davidrobinson4118]

I hope you bought those kayakers a beer!

[@JRonyStarDust]

Haha I ran left of the horns at about 18k cfs and found myself in a 20’ long by 8’ wide Eddie near the bottom. With a 16’ boat. That was one of the hardest times I ever had to work on a raft. Love it!!!!!

[@MrFg1980]

That first exit from the eddy up high with a push from the kayaker and some real hard pullin' maybe. But that boat was destined to flip stuck in that eddy there...Horn Creek...

[@goutvols103]

Even the raft gave up on him.

[@richeylafond5049]

Kayakers are nice but to have a competent Boatman is best

[@ignatiusdemonseed]

that is one heck of an eddy fence.

[@Axelsanx]

Needed a stronger rower.

[@bhappy641]

Great women, great rescue crew!

[@safevoyage]

Good instructional and nice lining

[@DFS_degen]

That's one of the longest Maytags I've seen

[@BiggeDiehl]

He would’ve done better doing a ghost Rider run. Everything including the oars down tight, and kick it out in the current. Old Sobek Expeditions move used in the first descent of the Zambezi on a rapid that had flipped the first two boats. Richard Bangs tied everything down and kicked it out, and it had a perfect run!

[@Sea-cucumber1151]

They have all those ropes tied to the front and back, why didn’t he throw that guy one of those?

[@haakonkjellesvik7689]

His ferry angle was all wrong pulling out of the eddy.

[@GoneLong-wk8sc]

Good job getting up on the flipped boat. A lot of people can’t do that.

[@jonathanmcclelland6325]

Well, as you can see at the start of the video, at least the rower was prepared (note the red flip line on the D-ring handle), and his passengers were ready (note the bicycle helmet). Looks like a tough eddy to get out of with the best of technique, which wasn't demonstrated.

[@bobk2966]

yeah, great?

[@SteveF1967]

A bicycle helmet is better than a floppy hat, but if you’re gonna be on whitewater the wear a whitewater helmet.

[@rickrock1321]

damn,,,,where do you find such talent?

[@melindahall5062]

Standing up?

[@boatman222345]

Did anyone notice the words written on the bow of the raft...White Water Experts. Really?

[@sdriza]

But what do you do when you can't get bailed out by others?

[@jeffpaddock3469]

Nice camera work. Glad everything turned out ok.

[@michaellyman420]

That was intense.....

[@KyokushinKichiKai]

I thought your line was good. I'd of run heavy-end first ( I know someone will wonder how or say not possible) and use your momentum to hit the hole or breaking wave, couldn't quite tell from the camera angle. One thing to bear in mind is your boat will turn around your heaviest point. That's what spun you. Get stuck in that eddy good luck, no advice for that. It was pretty cool to see someone building speed to hit a wave train. Commonly, most people seem to row defensively not knowing what's going to happen. Good luck my friend!

[@lostilein]

well glad hes wearing a Helmet....oh wait its a Cowboyhat...

[@MikeSchlesinger]

Thankfully the boatman was able to save his hat.

[@dgrfsthrgsergwrtghasefq]

Further proof that anyone with a "flag" on their raft should be avoided at all costs for your own personal safty.

[@refuge42]

hey guy ,...this is one of the finest people you could possibly run the Grand with,...you're generalization is cute but w/o merit. He has a standing offer on ANY Grand I get near. It was a bad run,..that went south,..trying to interpret it beyond that is an indication of your issues not his. EVERYONE gets a run like this,...if you run long enough,...don't worry,... your day is coming.

[@carriestruble343]

Wish I was running the river I only sank my raft once sideds brown canyon ark in Colorado 😁

[@kayakeb]

You don’t want to sell me death sticks. . . You want to go home and rethink your life.

[@Lea99Jones]

Hydrodynamic are fun to study.

[@seanbritt713]

Isn't the line just to the right of the left horn?

[@SoulRafter]

That's one line yes. But there are others.

[@RoyEYoung]

Always run between the horns. I broke a few left oars but free ride from 7000 to 24000. Why run right???

[@pcmountaindog]

You can't split the horns at lower flow. The right side run is all we have and a hard pull left is mandatory.

[@joehazel2291]

Splitting the horns is a no go below 9000 cfs and that's sharp. 10kcfs is better.

[@joshbrazofuerte]

I split em this summer at about 7500cfs....its there

[@mattcookeco]

They're covered up, plenty of water there

[@csweet207]

Impressed you saved the hat

[@asillybadboy]

Cares more about his hat then his head! They make cowboy helmet these days.

[@mackayhaedt6525]

Penalty. Citation. Disqualified!

[@oxxnarrdflame8865]

Well he got out, not text book, but out none the less. 😊

[@carriestruble343]

What you doing

[@carriestruble343]

Loved being a river rat

[@carriestruble343]

Sweet ride sink or swim

[@labrador7373]

Why do they carry like a fuck ton of equipment if they know they can lose it all in an instant?

[@TheProHunting]

This never looks fun to me, always just looks wet and cold

[@Muppetspissed111]

How many other times did this clown screw up down there?

[@refuge42]

He didn't flip otherwise and was a superb help to the group ,...I do a Grand with him anyday. He just tried a new line,..and paid for it. Happily our back up team was there. Further he's the one that insisted his screw up get posted,...wanting people to see a real f' up looks like. He knew it was bad,..but that's how we all learn.

[@refuge42]

On the contrary,.,...he's done multiple Grands w/ great success. You do enough,..you'll eventually get kicked too.

[@mattcookeco]

@@refuge42 tried a new line? LMFAO! No he got cocky and f'ed up. There is no "new line". Anyone trying "new lines" at horn or anywhere else of consequence is not welcome on my trip, and frankly has no business rowing the canyon. Had to re-flip 2 rafts at horn for a semi-incompetent group a few months ago that seemed unable to do it themselves. This guys excuse of why he pushed instead of pulled was pretty stupid, worried about not being able to square up after stern dropping behind the right horn? If you do it right it'll spin your boat for you. Even if you're not straight at least your not heading directly for that damn hole, unless you're a weak rower or not committed and miss the eddy entirely. But "Hell that's too much risk so I'll just push straight into the hole and get it over with..." WTF. The flag, frog toggs, hat and bicycle helmet said it all from the beginning

[@charlesmcdonald5465]

Good flag anyway. I’d have made my family flip with me. All for one and one for all. Shocking how strong those eddy lines are lol

[@MrFg1980]

when possible...run the horns😁

[@zachramseyphoto]

No control going in standing up. I ran that bad boy right over the right horn. Perfect line haha.

[@bindig1]

Apparently this guy lied on his resume

[@mrloftybreez1503]

Sign me up!

[@randysmith8604]

If you dont have the strength or the commensence that your in way over your head, maybe you should have a guide and not your own boat.

[@abskirental]

Raft much? No.

[@francesgeerlings3225]

Oh boy real stinker there

[@vvss165]

Ok-take the worst rower and put the weakest passengers on his boat, then drift aimlessly into Horn Creek-good plan, I'm ready😜whatever you do don't let the silly flag get wet.....AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

[@pcmountaindog]

I agree no effort was made to move left. Right down the pipe into a bad place.

[@refuge42]

I know how much fun it is to criticize people ,..but in fact this is a strong rower as you can see from his technique. It was the line he tried that sucked. In any case the rescue is good and he is the one who insisted this video be posted,..to show others what a FU really looks like.

[@mattcookeco]

@@refuge42 0:08 you call that strong rowing/technique? 🤣

[@bobk2966]

As trip leader, I like to have the new people from the exchange at Phantom Ranch run this rapid with me. I like this rapid, but consider it one of the biggest hazards of the trip. Lots of flips, broken oars, people hurt. I have run it eight times and consider it straight forward and big. You need to have a good line, and make your line. Will someone take this clip down, all it is, is many examples of what not to do. Why so much filming??? I am sure the boatman wants to forget too. This clip has no teaching value, just bad news.

[@refuge42]

Hey Bob; I filmed it and the boatman insisted on postingt it. In fact he cut out 25% of the footage. Point is this guy is good and he ran into trouble still. He wanted others to see what NOT to do and how not to do it. I like that our group pulled together and managed a good rescue no matter what.

[@JRonyStarDust]

It’s all good! Their is a rock on river left about 60’ before the entrance and if it is out of water without the rock underneath it being out of water, then you split the horns. Well shit, just always split the horns! Hahaha

[@steveberkson3873]

I ‘cut my teeth’ at Horn in my second trip(training) 1971..did better than this guy. Makes a difference water flow fluctuations

[@JMichael-o7g]

Absolute fool

[@diemman70]

Omg! So funny. This guy has no idea how to guide.