WWV Receiver

[@w2aew]

Nice job! And thanks for the reference to my zero-beat video!

[@StuntProgrammer]

***** Thank you! And you're quite welcome. I really enjoy your videos.

[@TheRadioShop]

I know this is an older video but it is the kind of stuff I like. Been thinking of building something like this myself. Stumbled onto your channel while searching.Subscribed.

[@jerrydaugherty3781]

Nice job, you explain the detail great. I've been in electronics for 64 years, never heard the term swizzle stick except in my younger years when going to bars. I have heard the term diddle stick or tuning wane. I have learned the proper name isn't as important as knowing how to use it. 73 W9FS

[@StuntProgrammer]

Thank you for the kind words! I've also used the term "swizzle stick" for the little straw in a mixed drink or cream-and-sugared coffee. I've never heard tuning wane before, but it's my new favorite! I suppose "wane" comes from the beveled shape or decreasing thickness of the tool? Best regards!

[@NatureAndTech]

Most wall-clocks in Europe are automatically tuned to the DCF77 radio station in Germany.

[@rfengr00]

Nice project! It would be interesting to take the 10 MHz output from the counter and mix that with the WWV carrier, then feed back into the counter input.

[@richard7crowley]

Beautiful job, Aaron. Keep up the good work!

[@StuntProgrammer]

Thanks, I'll try!

[@arrakiszexelon3044]

@@StuntProgrammer ​ @Aaron D. Parks Aaron: By my reading through lots of the comments here about your WWV video, it appears as though there is quite a bit of strong interest in lots of people wishing to build their own WWV receiver kit. I know that I am one of those people as well!!! I have been listening to WWV since around 1965 when I was in highschool and I have often dreamed of having my own dedicated WWV receiver to listen to on occasion. So.....how about this??? --- How about you going through the process of refining the development of a "totally cool" WWV receiver that has a pretty good audio output and I will assist you with developing the kit by not only providing a "proper" schematic created using a high-end schematics capture program, but by - ALSO - taking care of designing the PCB layout and mechanical enclosure design??? Sound like a plan??? I work as a "Senior Electronics Mechanical Packaging & PCB Designer" for aerospace/avionics companies, defense contractors, medical electronics firms, R&D laboratories and telecommunications and video electronics companies. I have here-at-home both the CADENCE/OrCAD "PCB Editor" Release 17.4 PCB Design software - and - the SolidWorks 3D Mechanical Design software programs. So, if you are able to design a nicely refined WWV receiver schematic that is completely "tricked out" and high-performance as is possible, then I will expend the effort to design both the PCB and the mechanical enclosure to come up with a nice user-desirable project kit that other people would enjoy buying!!! Sound like a plan??? Please feel free to shoot me an e-mail message and in return, I will send you my "Design Portfolio" which showcases several of my mechanical chassis designs and PCB layouts. In addition, because I have designed some PCB's before that also were for kits, I am aware of the types of certain PCB layout techniques necessary for when a human-being is going to be doing the soldering versus having a wave-soldering machine doing it!!! So.....I think we could make being a GREAT TEAM TOGETHER!!! All that I need is a completed and fully-functional working schematic and I'm good-to-go!!! I am looking forward to hearing back from you shortly and hopefully getting started on a "WWV Receiver" project. Here is how you can reach me: [e-mail] Best Regards, Jerry B. Williams Senior Electronics Mechanical Packaging & PCB Designer /

[@johnwest7993]

I was wondering what sort of receiver could be built for the 10 MHz WWV transmitter without losing the carrier integrity. Now I know. I've lived in both CO and MI, and the TRF receiver I used for WWVB in Boulder, CO still worked beautifully most times of the day in MI as a frequency ref on 60 kHz. I built a divider to divide down 1, 5, and 10 MHz freq standards to compare on the scope against the 60 kHz receiver. It's clearly a slower process to watch the drift between the 2 signal and null it out at 60 kHz than at 10 MHz, but with a near perfectly clean 60 kHz sine wave several hours of the day I could see minor frequency drifting much more clearly, so the time it took to calibrate the 1, 5, and 10 MHz refs with 60 kHz pretty much balanced out. However, a good clean 10 Mhz single frequency receiver like yours would be an asset to any RF hobyist's lab, and shows that throwing money at GPS receivers, TCXO's and rubidium standards isn't really necessary to get excellent home frequency references. Well done.

[@StuntProgrammer]

Very cool! That sounds like a very handy way to do it too. Thanks for the kind words. I had a lot of fun with this project. I think I'd probably also have fun throwing money at a rubidium standard, so let's not rule that out too hastily 😉

[@johnwest7993]

In all honesty, I did get a used rubidium standard, but then, I do repair work for the NIST Time and Frequency group here in Boulder, so a standard is handy. Of course the first thing I realized was that such standards have more phase noise than a crystal standard, and that they also require frequency calibration. So then you need a GPS receiver to set your rubidium standard's frequency, which is then used to discipline a crystal standard for a clean signal which you use on your bench. There's really no end to it all. It's a search for perfection.

[@StuntProgrammer]

@@johnwest7993 Hahah, yeah... that's how it goes 😅

[@enserfud]

Awesome subscribed Shortwave fan from childhood Early 70's tube and crystal sets I still enjoy crusing the shortwave Bands and love electronics

[@CraigPetersen12f36b]

Cool project! I'm thinking of building one of these just to compare it to my other references to see just how well it does. Something like this should get you within 1^10-07 mostly because of propagation delays, on days with good strong propagation you may get better results. In the absence of a GPSDO, OXCO, Rubidium or Cesium reference's, it's the next best thing. I use WWV to check the frequency reference on my Kenwood TS-850 after a few years of aligning it to the OCXO in my HP 8644A. Until I can get a Cesium reference, a GPSDO or Rubidium standard will have to do.

[@StuntProgrammer]

Thanks for the kind words! I'd love to hear how it comes out.

[@wd8dsb]

Hi Craig, check out the following youtube video kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2Grcp6DpKZ8paM The receivers in that video are easy to duplicate and there are circuit boards available for them.

[@DM-sl9hp]

Nice project. I'm curious how stable you can get the WWV carrier to appear and if you have tried to quantify the relative stability. In the video it looked like less than 1 Hz or 0.1 ppm.

[@StuntProgrammer]

Thank you for the kind words! I was able to reduce the beat between the two signals a bit more off camera, maybe once in five seconds? I didn't try to rigorously quantify it. Making fine adjustments was tricky since the trimmer sticks a little. I fiddled with it until my patience gave out and called it good 😋

[@johnhillside9105]

I would like to have WWV here at Shady Acre Observatory!

[@ianboard3555]

If you are receiving WWV off a bounce from an ionospheric layer is there an issue with doppler?

[@StuntProgrammer]

That's a very thoughtful question. I don't /think/ there would be a meaningful contribution from the doppler effect. I'm confident supposing that the transmitting site and receiving site are not moving relative relative to one-another by any appreciable amount. I'm a little less confident, but still feel pretty good supposing that the point of reflection (or points of reflection) are not moving much if at all for usual modes of ionospheric propagation. Perhaps someone will step in to correct me on this. I have a vague sense that if the point of reflection were moving, as long as it was essentially equidistant between the transmitter and receiver (so that its horizontal velocity away from the transmitter is about the same as its horizontal velocity toward the receiver) the effect might mostly cancel out? I haven't sketched this last bit or tried to work it out for sure, so I don't have a lot of confidence in it.

[@wd8dsb]

@@StuntProgrammer Hi Aaron and Ian, yes there is indeed doppler shift using HF to receive WWV because the Ionosphere is ever changing and during part of the day its effective height is greater, and during part of the day its effective height is less. Data acquired by Connie Marshall (K5CM) indicates an accuracy of 1 Hz is reasonable during most times of day, with the exception possibly being around Sunrise and Sunset. Per Connie, "As long as you stay away from "sundown and sunrise" Doppler is usually less than 1 Hz.". Connie's data suggests the variation is +/- 0.2 Hz in the mid afternoon at his location in Oklahoma. Link to Connie's data showing effect of Doppler on the 5 and 10 MHz WWV signal mid afternoon in Oklahoma www.k5cm.com/wwv-doppler-corr.htm Link to Connie's data showing Sunrise and Sunset effect on the CHU Canada signals (3.33 & 7.85 MHz) in Oklahoma due to Doppler www.k5cm.com/chu.htm 73, Don wd8dsb

[@StuntProgrammer]

@@wd8dsb Thank you for your wonderful summary of Connie's work! Sounds like I was right to guess that it would not be a meaningful contribution in this application. But it's nice to know -- and to be able to quantify the likely error -- rather than have to rely on a guess! 😀 Makes a lot of sense that it would be most strongest at sunrise and sunset. Very cool.

[@user-su5sq5ib3i]

I live in Nova Scotia and pick up wwv very well as well as chu

[@StuntProgrammer]

Awesome! I get CHU pretty well here in Michigan too, particularly on 7.850 MHz

[@billmoran3812]

I just came across your video. Been looking for a good design for a dedicated WWV receiver. I like the crystal filter and non- superheterodyne arrangement. I want to include decoding of the 100hz subcarrier to get the time code data. I'll probably do the receiver as one board and the digital decoder as a second board built into a common chassis.

[@StuntProgrammer]

Cool! I hope you'll share the results. It sounds like a great project. Good luck :)

[@SLOBoe]

Bill, did you come up with a good design? I'm interested in doing the same. High quality audio output is important.

[@tedfrisk4730]

Job well done Sir, thanks for the video presentation, I'm a little lazy so I am running my lab on a rubidiumoscillator, 73 de SM4PDP...

[@tubeDude48]

Hawaii and the UK have their own WWV. How about doing something about the audio?

[@StuntProgrammer]

The audio was just an after-thought. If you come up with something better, let me know! I'd be happy to add a link.

[@israelshapira3665]

Hi Aaron, I have a question. If I have 2 of those receivers connected to 2 channels of the scope, one for each, I would be seeing 2 10mhz wave forms on the scope I believe. Now, if I'll move the antenna of the receiver which is connected to channel B of the scope, would the wave form on the scope move too? The rational is this: Rf moves at a speed of about 1' per nanosecond. In the youtube the time scale on the scope is 50 ns. Thus, for every feet I'll move the antenna away or toward the rf source (wwv station or the the reflection's point), the wave form will move 1ns too. What do you think?

[@StuntProgrammer]

Certainly. This effect (from electromagnetic radiation having a finite and predictable velocity) is often exploited in practice, for example: in phased antenna arrays, MIMO for Wifi, and such.

[@israelshapira3665]

@@StuntProgrammer Thanks. So Where can I get those receivers? Is there any kit or assembled product anywhere?

[@StuntProgrammer]

@@israelshapira3665 Sorry, not that I know of. 🙁 This was just a one-off project I made for fun and to use in my own shop.

[@iblesbosuok]

Great impressive video. Can I substitute J310 with MPF102? Cheers from Indonesia

[@StuntProgrammer]

I haven't done a close analysis, but from a quick glance at the data sheets I found, it looks like a reasonable substitution.

[@lov2flyr441]

Great video.Very informative. Can you list the part no. for the Amidon toroid cores you used? are they the T-106,130, 184 series?, also what wire gauge did you use ? thanks

[@StuntProgrammer]

I know this reply is late, but I just came across my notes. It looks like I tried a couple of different options but may have settled on six turns of #22 wire on a T37-2 core, bunched fairly close.

[@warplanner8852]

Late to the dance here but please tell me that your immaculate work bench is strewn with parts and detritus and half-eaten sandwiches and other debris when you are working! Great video by the way!

[@robertmeyer4744]

depending where you are at you may need to tune a different frequency. 10Mhz strong at night NY USA. Have gotten 2.5 5 10 15 20 25 Mhz from WWV WWVH at different times and time of year. I have herd CHU Canada 3330 14670 Mhz as well. great video. great way to set dial on a SW radio. station is 24/7/365

[@StuntProgrammer]

Thanks for the kind words are for the information about CHU!

[@abdulrahmanalbatti1626]

Great job Aron Can you please give more information about FB & 33u FB inductors you have used because they're not quite visible on the circuit you've built especially the 33u ones. Thanks a lot!

[@StuntProgrammer]

+Abdulrahman Albatti The components marked "FB" are small ferrite beads slid over the transistor legs. I'm afraid I don't have a part number handy.

[@PapasDino]

Great job Aaron - like your "ugly" construction method. You've got a new subscriber! 73 - Dino KL0S

[@StuntProgrammer]

Dino Papas Thanks and 73!

[@PapasDino]

Dino Papas No problem Aaron. "Beating" WWV even by ear can get you very close although it takes a while to do it that way; that's how I started out (long ago) then graduated to using the color-burst TV signal (unfortunately that doesn't work anymore with new TV systems), and then the Z3801A GPS disciplined reference oscillator and finally a Rubidium standard. BTW, do you have a .pdf copy of your receiver design available?

[@JohnAranita]

My middle brother did not listen to me when I said to him to not unwind an AM antenna on our family stereo. So, we picked up WWV.

[@Mr_Meowingtons]

i am surprised this is not a kit or has never been a kit this would be a nice way for me to setup my Freq counter.. I would love to do a project like this but it is beyond me

[@StuntProgrammer]

Thanks for the kind words! I think it would be tough to develop as a kit, but it's nice to hear that other folks are interested in the project ☺️

[@wd8dsb]

Hi Matt, check out the following youtube video kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2Grcp6DpKZ8paM The receivers you see in that youtube video are easy to build and circuit boards are available, etc.

[@benish0r]

Hi Aaron, would you care to share what software did you use for the nice schematics? Thanks, Adrian YO6SSW

[@StuntProgrammer]

***** I used Adobe Illustrator. I wouldn't recommend it for developing schematics from scratch, since it doesn't have any of the features you expect from a proper a schematic capture package. But, if you want to make something attractive for publication, it can do that. Getting the snap settings dialed in right makes it easier.

[@geoffreybennett1895]

What is your supply voltage? How did you isolate the power? Thanks.

[@StuntProgrammer]

gbennett58 The supply is 12 volts. I'm not sure about your second question. Isolate it from what?

[@geoffreybennett1895]

Aaron Parks in the video you referred to the grounding problem and in passing said something about isolating the power. Perhaps I misunderstood. Do you have an updated schematic?

[@TheLightningStalker]

How is it working now at solar minimum? Also what kind of antenna are you using?

[@StuntProgrammer]

I haven't dusted it off recently. I believe I was using a four-band trapped vertical before (not optimal, but usually brings in WWV fine).

[@TheLightningStalker]

@@StuntProgrammer That is helpful, thanks. I've been trying various things but so far an 80m 1/L seems to work best but it still fades in and out at least for the 2 days it was up and running. That just proves that a well designed dedicated receiver almost always works better than anything else.

[@lesorr1298]

Wonderful!

[@W4BIN]

Every major country has it's own time and frequency standard station/s. WWV = man's voice WWVH = woman's voice CHU = Canada and many more. Ron W4BIN

[@Yuēhàn24]

Your bench is far too tidy!

[@ingussilins6330]

Nice "speaking clock"