X-Plane 11.50 GPU Bottleneck determination

[@ChannelyMcChannelChan]

There's an easier way, using CPU and GPU frame time: In X-Plane settings, go to Data Output and select Frame Rate->Show in Cockpit. Now, when you're in a plane, on the top left you should see values for Frame Time, CPU Time and GPU Time. CPU Time is how long the CPU is taking to process a frame. GPU time is how long the GPU is taking to process a frame. Frame time is more or less the higher of those previous values. If CPU time is higher than GPU time then your bottleneck is on your CPU, and vice versa. This is much easier and you don't even need to leave X-Plane to check it. Austin did a great job giving us this very useful tool. Hope it helps!

[@Sim737Pilot]

In your opinion, is there a benefit of setting a FPS limit say 60 FPS on a 60hz refresh rate monitor to achieve smoother consistant FPS or would you recommend not limiting the GPU even if the CPU is not ready to render the extra frames?

[@Specter0420]

Ctrl+Shift+F will toggle it on and off but I no longer get accurate frametimes with Vulkan though.

[@ChannelyMcChannelChan]

​@@Sim737Pilot The only benefit that I can think of right now is that it would reduce power consumption and heat output. Other than that... no. It's always better to have a lower frametime, even if your monitor is limited to 60hz, because it lowers the input latency (controllers will feel more responsive). Of course you may notice some tearing every now and then, because the frames are not synced with the display output, but it's possible to prevent this (while keeping the benefits of having a lower frametime) by setting "Vertical Sync" to "Fast" in the Nvidia control panel. I haven't experimented with the vsync option in X-Plane so I don't know how it works though.

[@ChannelyMcChannelChan]

@@Specter0420 How so? You mean the displayed FPS aren't accurate either? Because as far as I can tell the frametimes are equal to the displayed FPS; at least in my case (11.50r2 using Vulkan)

[@Specter0420]

@@ChannelyMcChannelChan GPU frame time always says 0.001 I can crank the GPU settings (the ones on the left) to max and get bad FPS but the GPU frame time still says the same, even though the overall FPS is correct. The CPU frame time seems accurate and reacts to changes with the settings on the right (world objects and reflections). It is just the GPU frame times that are off which is still unfortunate. It worked well pre-vulkan and is valuable when tweaking your settings for your VR HMD or, if you're old fashioned and stuck in the past, your monitor.

[@pascalxplorationteam6185]

Best channel to get the best Xplane set up and configuration upgrade. This channel is the best one....Regard from France

[@wewillrockyou1986]

Two things... Firstly, it is also possible that the memory latency and bandwidth (timings and frequency) are also contributing to a bottleneck, this usually looks somewhat like a CPU bottleneck, but you can often get a LOT of extra juice out of a CPU by overclocking and tightening the timings on memory (though it's a more complex process). Secondly, from my experience at least, there is a HUGE variance between different locations and sceneries as to what kind of performance numbers you will get out of the system and where exactly it will bottleneck, you might find that say around NYC area you get a massive CPU bottleneck while in the rockies or generally away from very large and very dense cities you are GPU bottlenecked. Bottlenecking in general is a very complex mechanism and it is never fully explained by one single component being a bottleneck.

[@quantumac]

For Linux users out there (and I know we're a small but lively group), you can monitor an NVIDIA gpu in a terminal using this: while true; do clear; nvidia-smi; sleep 1; done Not as fancy as Windows, but it works.

[@Louis_Delgres]

and AMD?

[@Patrick-rk7us]

MSFS2020 is great....but I won´t delete X-Plane and I will use it in the future!

[@Sim737Pilot]

Both sims can share drive space. After all, this is a flight simulation community, and shouldn't be a biased this or that sim. Both have pros and cons which will change over time. Both of mine are getting along although I gave one of them a "time out" after letting it out of the box.

[@outbackgaming6385]

I left x plane

[@A5tr0101]

@@Sim737Pilot Yes they can be compared, you are mistaken... Both are simulators and xplane has more features than MS which is only more visually pleasing. I can tell you know a lot of pilots wont be moving the MS flight sim until the product is finished. And works with more hardware and display panels. VR etc.

[@caribbaviator7058]

only saying that because Michael channel supports x-plane 11

[@caribbaviator7058]

@@A5tr0101 He made is point and you don't seem to get it.At the end of the day they are both sims where you are either stuck with a vr on your face or steering at monitor.You are both playing pretend pilots in both sims anyway.Are you going anywhere? nope

[@luca1s]

I have a 3700X with 32gb of ram and an RX 580 (waiting for RTX 3000) and X-Plane Vulkan shows the GPU as bottleneck (obviously). I get 18-24fps at high-ish settings (1080p). With FS2020, I can completely max it out, and get 18-24 fps at 1440p. At a mix of high and ultra, I get 24-30fps in GA aircraft at 1440p. I think XP definitely has some more optimization to do here

[@cptjj6053]

Love your content Michael!

[@marshie1337]

Msfs2020 is gorgeous but xplane works so well as far as options for binding functions to keys (ex. Binding the nosewheel tiller). The flight model is magnificent too. For GA, I'll fly on msfs for the visuals but for airliners xplane all day

[@psour33]

As I never fly liners, I do not use X-Plane any more for now.

[@Mr.President]

I discovered the joy of GA flights thanks to MSFS2020, a thing that only in real life I was enjoying. Now I hardly choose to fly airliners anymore, maybe when PMDG 737 joins I'll do short local flights, but I'll still prefer low altitude GA

[@outbackgaming6385]

x plane flight model is not correct at all not by along shot

[@psour33]

@@outbackgaming6385 The other ones are not better

[@outbackgaming6385]

@@psour33 they are quite good in MFS lot more responsive than x plane just my opinion. everyone is entitled to their opinion so let's leave it at that.

[@Sim737Pilot]

Thanks for the video Michael. I enjoy watching your tech videos to tweak X Plane as much as possible.

[@socratesg4210]

Thanks Michael, I did not think of looking for this setting.

[@florianstephan5745]

very helpful and concise explanation - many thx.

[@twSimulations]

Can you make a new video on which CPU and GPU to buy for XP11?

[@Mr_Spock512]

Excellent video ... great way to determine where's the bottleneck in a system.

[@BamTechVids]

Thanks Michael. Very helpful as always

[@romainbeunckens2023]

Thanks Michael I love x-plane because i run a multi view system witch is not possible by MSFS2020 ! I hope they will investigate in x-plane 12 for the future.

[@joet.2545]

Tks for the tip, I was able to up my frame rate from 25 to 35 by finding out the bottleneck was the GPU, not the cpu. What is Graphics_1 exactly? I had the same problem as the example you showed with Graphics_1 being maxed out at 100%.

[@yannisspyrakis6098]

Hear ya! Nice video of yours I was flying with xplane from 8, 9 and 10 version. Now the scenery of msfs 2020 is been a big distraction lol I believe that Microsoft will fix those issues, I bet you they are watching the feedback on the net! :)

[@frysimulation]

Great video. My windows task manager does not show Graphics_1 option and many others don't show that you have on your video?

[@clippervoyager]

I would like to know how can I add that Tab…. ;)

[@brianlaunchbury4491]

This should be pinned to the 11.5 beta thread on the org site. Along with stop trying to pull a super tanker with a golf cart!

[@napakaj1226]

Sir, i’m really thank you for exploring this. Your channel really help me so much. And about this video, can you tell me how to transfer the excessive power of CPU/GPU to better FPS.

[@paulphibbs7162]

Great information Mike. Thanks.

Interesting and informative as always, thanks!

[@J-L_Pilot]

I run x-Plane 11.50 in 4K 3 Screens with i9750K at 4.7G with 48 Gb Of Memory with Vulcan. In San Francisco area I'm down to 20 FPS with only 70% of GPU utilisation (RX 6650 XT 8Gb ) and 35% cpu utilisation. I have 2.5 GB of Testure loaded. Why does the GPU does not Go to 100% before reducing the Frame rate, Any idea?

[@geoffh7206]

Thanks Michael, this is extremely useful. Can you tell me what exactly is the "graphics_1" parameter measuring?

[@DerrickNedzelMtnBike]

Great insight to investigating bottlenecks Michael. Thank you! Good question from Geoff H: what exactly is graphics_1? I will see if I can find any information via Google to explain what part of the Graphics Card this refers to.

[@DerrickNedzelMtnBike]

Here is a link to an MSDN blog describing these various categories: devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/gpus-in-the-task-manager/ Basically graphics_1 refers to one of the graphics engines on the card.

[@moleisrich1]

Thanks I’m sticking with xplane. I finally got my VR running smoothly and is enjoyable.

[@Sim737Pilot]

I wasted 2 full days learning the A320 procedures and creating checklists only to learn after launch, there's over 30 INOP switches including the SEAT BELT sign. I'll stick to Boeing enjoy the study level FREEWARE Zibo Mod in X Plane with good FPS until a 737NG is developed with fully functional systems and controls. Then maybe I will consider flying both Sims. Both have pros and cons now, and both will have pros and cons 6 months from now, though the items may change.

[@clippervoyager]

Thank you so much!!! I don’t have Graphics_1 tab in my task manager at Windows 10… how can I add it?? Thank you!!!

[@DC3Refom]

I'm definitely cpu bottlenecked a with 4790k 4.4ghz with a gaming Pro 3080, can't wait to get that 5900x, already have the x570 master, 32gb 3600mhz cl16. Hey Michael are you going test the 3080 in xp when you can get one

[@nickorozco4301]

Heard that the 5800x outperforms the 5900x in XP11. Could you do some benchmarking though?

[@DC3Refom]

I sold my 1080 to get a 3080 for vr and on my gtx 970 I'm still getting 25fps - 40fps high graphic settings high scenery setting with a 4790k on fly tempa lav Vegas and klas scenery which is very demanding , vulkan is a godsend :) can't wait get it and a 4800x in October, got the x570 master mobo and ram ready :)

[@snappers7587]

Hey Mich amazing video as always!

[@general232]

Use nvidia software (the other that isn’t called GEFORCE EXPERIENCE) and limit the framerate to about 40fps or even 30fps… this isn’t a game that required higher fps such as COD or CS GO… considering that you play long hours this maybe sacrife fps… but in the end you will have a good experience… i done that in a legion 5i (i7 10750h and rtx2060 full hd)… i limited to 30fps and i am getting lower much lower temps, i have even limited the cpu to 25w with intel extreme software

[@quaildogusa]

My WIN 10 Task Manager doesn't show GPU temperature. Is this only shown when it get too hot?

[@steiner-3d300]

Starting with Windows 10 build 18963, Microsoft added GPU temperature monitoring support in Task Manager.

[@quaildogusa]

@@steiner-3d300 I apply all the maintenance that MS gives and I don't have temperature. Maybe my RTX 2070 is not sending that info.

[@steiner-3d300]

@@quaildogusa then you don't have the newer version (neither do I because I don't want it). Press your Windows key + r and then type winver and hit enter to see your build version.

[@quaildogusa]

@@steiner-3d300 You're right. I'm at 18363. I don't know why WIN hasn't pushed me into an update.

[@quaildogusa]

@@steiner-3d300 Why would you not want the update?

[@goflysim6825]

Thanks for the tip !

[@orb505]

It would have been useful to see what OpenGL had from Graphics 1 and why Vulkan using different metrics then OpenGL

[@Sanbornsen]

Hello. I am having issue with XSquawkbox. As soon as I connect, I am experiencing a major FPS drop and eventually get disconnected from Vatsim.

[@Sim737Pilot]

Hi Sudipta, if you are using MSFS2020 with FSUIPC7 beta, there is a known performance issue with 20+ FPS drop. If you are using X Plane, I would recommend changing to XPilot. I was stubborn to change as well, as I was used to the interface. However, after testing, Ive found XSquawkbox controllers sound like they are in an empty room because the audio codec for realistic radio sounds needs to be installed separately and many controllers don't bother. VPilot has been great and the new audio codec is integrated so there's no need for separate install.

[@Sanbornsen]

@@Sim737Pilot I figured XPilot doesn't work on Mac. :(

[@banggupi6554]

Xpilot more better fir vatsim

[@markslandingsandaviationvi3123]

I have fps drops in the newest Vulkan 11.50 RC-3 update. Also my specs are a Acer Nitro 5 laptop with a i7 7700HQ 2,80GHz and a GTX1050ti, 8gb ram. I’m always at 40 to 60FPS but then it drops to 20 for 2 to 5 seconds and goes back up. How do I fix this?

[@GharacDurac]

No one needs or wants AA on a 4K display. So you make your own bottleneck, which would not be there if you configure the x-plane correctly straightaway

[@jcsk8]

Not true. Without AA in my 5k you got a LOT of flickering in the moving scenery. It´s not the aliasing, because is very reduced due to the high resolution, but is the flickering.

[@komrad1983]

So it's impossible NOT to get bottleneck in XP11?

[@jcsk8]

And how about the in built cpu and gpu frametime? Are they reliable in Vulkan? I got curious now, cause is that what I use for balancing the system.

[@badl4ndz]

Michael, do you ever use MSI Afterburner? Does it give the same results as Task Manager?

[@xforcepc]

Yes, I have, and it generally does. I haven't used it lately, though.

[@colderwar]

Since I bought MSFS2020 I have gained a completely new appreciation for X-Plane. It might take 3 days to load, but when it finally does, at least it chugs along at an OK rate.

[@Sim737Pilot]

Are you referring to long loading time for FS2020 or XP11? In either case, if your mobo supports one, M2 drives are pretty cheap considering and will greatly help with load time but not FPS.

[@colderwar]

@@Sim737Pilot XP-11 is the one with the extended loading time on my machine. One thing that FS2020 does do properly is start without me having to book an appointment with it in advance. It's on an SSD as it is, I might have a think about an M2...

[@biz0r07]

@@colderwar M2 is the form factor....you need to make sure you get a NVME M.2 SSD....if you get a SATA M.2 it won't be much faster than what you have now.

[@martinalvarez827]

The flight model of xplane is much better than msfs 2020

[@Bob-kt9ex]

LOL no. The flight physics in XP are a joke.

[@caribbaviator7058]

It isn't great in both sims but xp11 is a bit better. You will never have a fully accurate flight model in any sim because you're limited by computing power.

[@digitalxsca]

Thank you Mike. Good insight. But i still have better framerate on Suse Linux than windows, and more stable.

[@kamingsoonGaming]

i hope no cpu hungry and stuttering plus ctd 😓, hi hi , yeah xplane better better with vulkan thanks, please join google earth make all 3D.

[@wilga80]

Thanks Michael.

[@OGmolton1]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. idk for sure but X-plane itself usually states my gpu time is significantly less than my cpu time, is this also a false reading possibly?

[@eirikuggedal1072]

Can u guys add the honeycomb bravo throtle quadrent

[@chadpollman7970]

Nice! Thanks for sharing. 👍

[@bobharrington8063]

How do you optimize settings for your existing components? Then, what components should you consider upgrading, and in what order?

[@nasigoreng553]

any point me using this on a linux system with 16gb ram and a 1060 card

[@AgentB7]

The man just explained to you in simple terms how to figure it out.

[@cpy]

Is this channel really going to still pretend MS2020 doesn't exist? At least say something

[@quantumac]

He has mentioned it in passing. I won't speak for Michael (he does that quite well on his own), but speaking for myself, I'm staying with X-Plane. Your mileage may vary.

[@jamesleicher]

think he did brief chat about it, video was pulled off.

[@MJ-jh8gx]

Thank you for the information. Xplane is still better then FS2020.

[@quantumac]

I think it is! If others disagree, that's their opinion. There's room for more than one bird in the sky.

[@caribbaviator7058]

fs2020 is just pretty graphics.XP11 is still way mature platform!

[@fssim6825]

Will there be an X plane 12??

[@trickyrat483]

Yes,

[@quantumac]

Austin Meyer has hinted at it. Now that XP 11.50 is nearly done, that will likely be their next big target. I'm looking forward to it.

[@mohsregbro6613]

Off topic, I have a pretty low end Graphics card, should I move to Xplane 11.50 now, or should I wait for the full release?

[@Sim737Pilot]

With 11.50 still being a beta, enabling Vulcan will not be a miracle cure for very dated equipment. Sure it might help a few FPS. Personally I would wait for the official no release candidate to come out. Unless you enjoy spending time debugging occasional issues. Some enjoy that. I just don't have the patience, lol.

[@What_If_We_Tried]

Michael, I super appreciate this video, because I had NO idea that Windows 10 had that Task Manager analytical tool. As a result, I've discovered that my performance bottleneck is 16 MB of RAM at ~84-87% usage with XP11.

[@What_If_We_Tried]

I am still running version 11.41

[@Sim737Pilot]

@@What_If_We_Tried Yes, 11.41 is still the latest non beta release. 11.50RC2 is still considered a beta and the tick box needs to be checked in XP installer in order to access it. I stick to the non betas as well. Less drama, more patience ;-)

[@Mr_Spock512]

@@Sim737Pilot Same here ... only stable releases for me, I prefer to let other test the betas.

[@DekelAmrani]

I dont have the graphics option

[@quecksilber457]

If the bottleneck now really would be the cpu, why is it only running on 16 % load now?

[@frankgordonsmith4795]

x plane still exists haha

[@A5tr0101]

?

[@Sim737Pilot]

FS2020 has over 30 INOP controls in one aircraft (A320). Both of us are stating facts. Both statements don't matter in the short term. Everyone has different priorities. As someone who owns both sims and having flown in a real world full motion 737 simulator, I can say the flight modeling at least on the airliners has a long road ahead. MS built a World Simulator "sandbox" for others to build in. Right now there's not much, so its not worth bragging about. Visually looks great, but have seen many glitches. Key West, Niagara Falls, water glitch in Anchorage. If you enjoy FS2020, great. But I don't see a point in trying to throne MSFS2020 in its current state. It is FAR from polished. We ALL share a passion for aviation. Why does it have to be so childish "mine is better than yours"? Your comment is an indication of your maturity level. That is a fact also.

[@Mr_Spock512]

It sure does ... and it's not a buggy arcade mess like other sims.

[@igvc1876]

@@Mr_Spock512 lol yeah arcade...sure

[@quantumac]

Yeah, it exists. What's your point? X-Plane still has its loyal fans and we are still using it. If X-Plane isn't your thing, so be it. We don't need your approval to have fun with it.

[@ww2airborne]

AMD....

[@kmartin-i7t]

Will Xplane be freeware?

[@quantumac]

No, but X-Plane has a lot of freeware you can download for it. I created a freeware BD-5J jet which you can get from x-plane.org. There are plenty more free planes, scenery and plugins, both on x-plane.org and elsewhere. Enjoy!

[@nasigoreng553]

ok what the hell is vulcan and i dont use windows for xplane never will. and i think for how many times you said bottleneck i slowly got more annoyed and less informed thank you