XB - 70 Valkyrie Midair Collision with F - 104 Starfighter, June 8, 1966. On Site Visit.

On June 8, 1966 five United States Airforce jets were flying in formation for a photo shoot. For unknown reasons the F - 104 Starfighter, piloted by Joseph Walker, made contact with the XB - 70 Valkyrie's right wing, thus causing a midair collision. This Video uses Google Earth to explain the incident and has onsite visits of the locations where the jets impacted the ground.
Below are the coordinates of the locations mentioned in the video:
Copy and Paste the coordinates into Google Earth to visit these locations from a Birdseye View.
Edwards AFB:
34.9114545, -117.8881234
XB - 70 Crash Site:
35.0633134, -117.0244407
F -104 Main fuselage:
35.0779389, -117.0557444
F - 104 Cockpit:
35.0806465, -117.0579998

[@brycecrousore1985]

The lengths you go, the history lessons, and the reverence you pay to the sites you visit are unmatched. Thank you, Forrest!

[@goinhot1]

My father was there that day. He was a V.P. at North American aviation and one of the heads of the XB70 program. It was one of the only times I’ve seen my father cry when he got home and told my mother. I still have some of the gifts they give my father after completion of the final build. What a great video and thank you. I have to admit I’m 65 years old and got a little teary watching this.. I guess I should mention I was present at the roll out of the aircraft in Palmdale CA!!! I think I came up to my dad’s knee but I still remember it like it was yesterday!!

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you for sharing this story. I love these types of comments!

[@goinhot1]

@@forresthaggertychannel4301 ❤️

[@JohnnyDanger36963]

my brother was the medic on the x15 program. I was driven to edwards several times as a 9 year old,in a red xke jaguar. front end lifts at 130 mph. I don't remember the visits.😮

[@qg4nn]

This hits home for me as well. My father worked at Edwards as a civilian contractor, and knew Joe Walker. I was only 9 at the time, but I remembered that my dad, who was also a pilot, was upset. I knew most of the details, but the sun's position being a possible cause was new to me. Thanks for all your efforts. I like the fact that you didn't remove crash related items from the site.

[@KathleenBennett-s9b]

My dad organized the ground search for pieces in the following investigation. The NASA bunch did arm to arm line walks across the site that weekend and after. Very somber times in the pilots office. I think may have been the time all us pilot office kids were babysat together while our parents went to the funeral.

[@leokimvideo]

The sun glare factor in this crash is amazing.

[@JesseJames-wj8ft]

Nice work, those crash sites are hallowed ground. White has stated Cross appeared to be incapacitated or unconscious early in the spin, perhaps by the 1st snap roll, and there was nothing he could do to help. The clamshell escape capsules [Same ones they used in the B-58] were operated individually, and White knew early on that he'd be lucky to save himself. His arm got trapped in the clamshell, and the ejection sequence would not begin until it was fully closed, so he nearly had to break his arm to get it free. As is well known, he was seriously injured upon landing. One of the bags that deployed to cushion the landing failed/was not deployed and he landed at an estimated 44 g's, nearly unsurvivable. Impact was so hard that imprints of his ass and feet were left on the aluminum seats and floor. As this flight was completely unauthorized [not uncommon in those more carefree days], repercussions followed. The base and wing commander were sacked and others reprimanded.

[@stubi1103]

I'm German and I have been interested in the history of aviation since I was a child. I have known about this case since the 70s, when there was no internet back then, and I am very grateful to see such details over 40 years later. The way you present it, is also something very special. Thank you for your careful work and research Sir !

[@JohnnyDanger36963]

probably Germans who worked on the xb70 or designed it.

[@stubi1103]

@@JohnnyDanger36963 Maybe... do you know who designed the P51 Mustang in the second World war?

[@BigSwift9]

This is not intended as a brag in any way, but this was one of my first in-depth Google Maps/Earth searches, and had to do a ton of detective work to actually locate it. At the time, there were only a few stones among intersecting ATV and motorbike tracks, and a cross. I couldn’t believe I could see it on Google Earth, but there it was, only just barely being able to make out the stone. I could be wrong about this, but I think Joe Walker’s crash site has been provided a memorial by a kid for his Eagle Scout project. Hopefully I can head out that way one day and see where my heroes met their fates. Regardless, thanks Forrest for taking the time to head out to the high desert and show us curious types where these pieces of history happened.

[@boburwell9921]

Eagle Scouts 🫡

[@hansenforge942]

The XB-70’s were the last project my grandfather worked on before he retired. He and his team developed the stainless honeycomb process that was used in the construction of the XB-70. Thank you for your work, and let’s get together sometime. -Forest Hansen

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

You going tomorrow at 6?

[@KathleenBennett-s9b]

My dad came home from touring the factory and was so excited. We still have his souvenir honeycomb XB 70 shaped piece. Victor Horton

[@vertisjohnson219]

I'd like to thank you for pinpointing the location of the crash site. I was at the Edwards AFB airshow which took place on May 20,1966, just a few weeks before the tragic crash. AV/2 #20207 was the XB-70 that crashed, it was the one flying at the show. While AV/1 #20001 was on static display. I've always thought the XB-70 was such a beautiful aircraft, and always was disappointed it never went into production.

[@lundsweden]

Such a beautiful, and for the time advanced aircraft. Pity this flight ended in tragedy for two fine airmen.

[@Citizenfitz1]

What a unique channel. The sympathy and respect he shows the victims of the tragedies he covers is itself moving.

[@Foxless316]

Forrest, I bloody love your channel. It's been a hell of a learning experience throughout each of your videos. Your presentation, your approach to difficult subjects and overall general demeanor is such a wonderful thing to see. I really appreciate your work and the commitment to your channel. Thank you for your time and effort, it is greatly appreciated. Cheers from sunny ol' England 👍

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

“. . . sunny ol’ England” I like that! :))))

[@commonsense6050]

I found the crash site of the F104 cockpit in the 1990's by accident. I had my son with me on a camping trip and stopped in that little sand wash below the cross. After prepping dinner I saw the cross glowing in the light from the setting sun. We climbed the hill to check it out and what a surprised. There were more bits and pieces of the plane and even plastic parts from the canopy. I have a photo of the cross from that trip. I returned a couple more times over the years to show friends. We also found the other two sites you showed. The wording on the cross was clearly legible back then. On the left it said "NASA Test Pilot Joe Walker a highly regarded test pilot died when his F-104 collided with an XB-70 bomber on June 8, 1966, 9:24 am". On the right it said "this is the Impact Site of his F-104. He had qualified Astronaut wings having gone up 50 miles in an X-15A. January 17, 1963. The square item in the center was the NASA symbol (blue globe with NASA across it). There had been a photograph glued on between NASA and Test on the left side but it was already not legible. I worked in aerospace and a coworker's father was a photographer on that flight. Another coworker had a relative who had been training the ejection seat procedures to the XB-70 pilots. Some paid attention and some didn't. The one who died was not paying attention. Thank you for the video reminding me of this location.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Wow! Thank you for sharing this story! I love reading comments like this. I think it would have been fascinating to come across the site by chance back then. And thank you for letting me know what was written on the cross!

[@commonsense6050]

You are welcome! Thank you for taking the time to find the site and documenting it.@@forresthaggertychannel4301

[@commonsense6050]

FYI - I used my old photo as a reference and repainted the cross. I scraped the peeling paint off and repainted it white. Later I added the writing back as it was. Anyone who finds it now can read the story.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

I might have to go revisit it!

[@commonsense6050]

And now that you know the location you can drive to it rather than hike.

[@TenSeven97]

Thank you, Forrest. I really enjoy your "This is what happend and here is where it happened" videos. You are an excellent story teller that recounts a relatively obscure event and makes it interesting. Not long ago I was in the Los Angeles neighborhood where you told the story of Howard Hughes' plane crash and had a brief look around for myself. Of course today there is less than nothing left to see, but knowing the who-what-when-where was an experience. I've been to Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima and have seen the damage and relics of those battles. For years I've tried to figure out a way to get to Midway Island but have resigned myself to the fact that it is not going to happen. maybe you can find a way to pull it off?

[@nvirgilio26]

Damn it’s so good to have you back. Thank you Forrest!

[@killacamfoo]

Having seen the surviving XB-70 at Wright Patt, it really is a sight to behold. Such a sad event this crash was.

[@campfire52]

Another outstanding video Forrest! Very well researched, very well explained, and of course very well filmed. Thank you so much for showing us on-site history that we would never likely have ever been able to see otherwise. See you on the next one my friend.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@rayross997]

Thanks Forrest, it will not be long till you hit 100,000. You always do great videos.

[@johnw8927]

Great video as always. Joe Walker was considered an excellent pilot and was 1 of only 12 pilots (Neil Armstrong also being one) that flew the X-15. Chuck Yeager was considered to be a very good pilot, but many fellow pilots and astronauts felt that he was not only very cocky and arrogant, but had a chip on his shoulder because he was not accepted to the astronaut corps.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

I don’t know if it’s accurate, but in the movie “The Right Stuff,” Yeager turned down the offer to be an astronaut because he said they were just Spam in a can.

[@kaypie3112]

@@forresthaggertychannel4301 Yeager was NOT considered for the NASA astronaut program because he did not possess a college degree.

[@johnw8927]

Interesting question. A brief history. I was an Air Force pilot for 8 years (T-38 Instructor and B-52 Aircraft Commander) then got on with Delta in 1991 and flew with them till 2020 when I retired. I've been collecting Space memorabilia since 1995 and have gotten to know many of the Apollo era Astronauts on a personal level. Whenever the subject of Chuck Yeager came up, those that knew him well, pretty much said the same thing, that he was a good pilot and was just in the right place at the right time (first to break the sound barrier). I actually have a good friend from my pilot training class that took General Yeager up in a F-15. He said pretty much what every one else that "knew" him said: cocky, arrogant, etc. Because Yeager did not have a college degree (especially not an Engineering background) he did not qualify for the Astronaut corps.

[@CaptainBobRockets]

My dad worked at NASA/Edwards during this period. He worked on the X-15's and the lifting bodies. It was quite a shock when he came home that day and explained what had happened. He knew Joe Walker quite well. As a kid, I remember going to a Halloween party and Joe showed up dressed as a Mexican bandito. In later years, I became friends with his son, Jim. We went to high school together and are still friends to this day. Just an awful accident!

[@TJRohyans]

Very cool! In the early 90s I was a Crew Chief on the then new B-2 Bomber and made a few trips to Edwards AFB and the N-G plant in Palmdale. I never had the time, but really wanted to go explore some of these historically significant sites, like the X-1 pit where they loaded it into the B-29. The one thing I did get to do though was get an inside tour of the NASA Mothership B-52B, "Balls 8". I had worked on B-52H's prior to the B-2, so that was significant to me.

[@skippyskater]

Never seen such an in depth exploration of a historical crash site, can only hope to see more videos in the future! Thanks mate

[@dougvw9394]

Thank you so much for these videos, I hope you never get tired of making them for us.

[@DougVandegrift]

This is a story I never knew about. Thanks forrest for keeping these memories alive!

[@MrMarko4]

The excitement I get a when a Forrest Haggerty upload notification pops up!.. 😀 - hope you get the deserved 100k plaque soon, nearly there. Fantastic work Forrest 👏

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you for your support!

[@jeffprice5810]

Best channel on you tube. Well done again Forrest.

[@motorTranz]

May God comfort the families of the two pilots. My sincerest condolences. Thank you Forrest.

[@tuomoj5378]

Best travel channel on youtube. Forrest on location.

[@JoshuaDomoslai]

I know this spot very well. Most my life we made monthly trips out there to camp/dirtbike. We parked not very far from this spot. It can be very confusing if you’re not familiar with the area since everything looks the same, and there’s trails everywhere. Awesome video. I enjoyed this one.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Did you camp at the Valkyrie site or F-104 site?

[@Knee-ko]

Great work as usual Forrest. There's something eerie about these ones you go out and do in remote locations.

[@Craiglife777]

Back in '66 those locations were really out in the middle of nowhere,......Love your videos! Thank you❤❤

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

They still are! It’s scary out there alone. I had to make three trips out there to finish this video.:))))

[@Airsally]

Amazing how little the landscape changes out there. I saw both of the X-70's at an open house . One flew and one was static.i recall the silver colored tires with a lot of threads showing . I was 12. Then spen 30+ years working at south base. Love the history of that place.

[@larrydemaar409]

Thanks for sharing with us the locations of this accident, so interesting and tragic at the same time! Well done!

[@wearebeats2]

NEVER STOP MAKING THESE PLEASE😭❤️i got so excited seeing a new forrest video

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

More to come!

[@rustydelorean6405]

Great video. I remember reading about this accident in a book when i was a kid. The B-70 looked like a Star Wars cruiser and must have been insane to the imagination back in the 1960s.

[@TempeLane11552]

My favorite KZbin channel, then and now. Always learn something new and interesting, Forrest.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you for the comment?

[@johndemerse9172]

What an amazing video! As a 15 year old Air Cadet from Canada, I remember watching film of the XB-70 on a trip to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton Ohio. That was 50 years ago today. Your video has shed so much light on this accident. I hope to go visit those sites as well.

[@kaypie3112]

GREAT job on this video Forrest- as with all of your work. I had lunch with Al White twice back in the late 90’s. He had nothing but kind words for Joe Walker. Your technical accuracy in your narration are spot on.

[@whooplife9785]

These patriotic videos are the best, i cannot express how much i appreciate your work and the respect you show to our men that perished in the quest to promote and defend our freedom. Thank you.

[@Winter_Sportster]

I appreciate your respectful treatment of these sites. Maybe, some day, I'll also be able to visit them.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

The XB - 70 is easier to get to. You can drive to it with a high profile vehicle. The F - 104 much more challenging to get to. I had to hike in about 1 mile one way with no trail.

[@Bigboss45305]

Love it Forrest. I had the honor of seeing an XB 70 at the Air Force Museum at wright Patterson afb. Quite a marvel of engineering. Also just fyi they made an arrest in connection with the Tupac murder case here in Vegas. Love these videos keep up the good work

[@josephcottenii8463]

Great research, production, narration; and a possible explanation for why this terrible tragedy happened. Condolences to families and friends of the pilots. A very good friend, Ted Easton, worked for North American as a model builder. Ted was a mechanic in the USAAC; spent the War at Cabanatuan, worked for NA on X-15, XB-70. The right stuff was not just in the cockpits. RIP

[@bobsurgranny]

Interesting. Thanks for posting

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thanks for watching!

[@jwwj30]

Howdy Forrest, I’ve got an interesting crash site that maybe you could check out for all of us Country Western fans (& fans of your channel too). I’ve lived in San Diego for over 50 years & back on March 16, 1991 there was a terrible plane crash that killed 10 people. Seven of the people were in Reba McEntire’s band, also her tour manager & the 2 pilots. She had played a private concert party for IBM & it was too late to take off from Lindbergh field. So she rented 2 Hawker Sidley DH-125 twin jets & took off from Brown Field down in Otay Mesa, by the Southern border. She was a little sick, so she stayed behind with her husband in San Diego, but her band & support staff took off around 1:45 am in the 2 planes. One plane took off with no problems & continued on with their flight until notified about an hour later to divert their flight plan. The second plane flew right into Otay mountain at about 3,500 ft. elevation. They say another hundred feet higher or slightly to the left or right, they would have made it over the peak. The peak is only about 10 miles Northeast of Brown field, you can easily find it on Google maps. There’s some dirt roads up there & maybe even a memorial. I’ve watched all your videos & I think this would be an easy hike for you. You’ve gone to countless other crash sites & even made a few videos around San Diego. I thought you might enjoy a hike up Otay mountain & then share your video with us about your experience. Thanks again Forrest for all your videos, RIP to the 10 souls who perished back on 3/16/91.

[@moparedtn]

Very well presented - and with respect. I learned a couple things I didn't know about the crash prior. You just got another subscriber, thank you sir. - Ed on the Ridge

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you for your support! I truly appreciate it 🙏

[@yes_head]

I thought it had been speculated that the XB-70 wingtips were creating a vortex that sucked the F-104 toward it when it got too close. Anyways, nice video -- thanks.

[@dannydevito5729]

Forrest I just wanted to say I really appreciate your videos. Thanks for putting them together

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you for watching them and appreciating them!

[@mktm1290]

I love these videos you make! Watched every single one multiple times, absolutely top notch 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

I’m happy you enjoy them. More to come!

[@teleclasster]

Love the accuracy and fine details of your reporting.

[@nibachoable]

The legend returns! Thanks Forest!

[@richardcopp]

You are the only KZbinr worth watching and the only I have ever contributed too. Thanks Forrest keep up the great work.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank for your kind words and support! I truly appreciate it 🙏

[@josephschmoe3796]

I was there at the crash site in 1996. None of the memorials were there, just very small pieces of honeycombed titanium, other tiny pieces of debris and a 4'x4'x2' hole where someone had dug up pieces to sell on E-Bay. The smell of the XB-70s fuel was still present near the 4x4 hole. This was before the internet was in as widespread use as it is today. I used a topo map and lat/long provided by Dr. Puffer from EDW museum and it took a bit of work to find it. GPS was not very popular either. The roads weren't as well defined either.

[@willielinks3865]

These are my favorite videos that you do! Thank you for all your amazing work!

[@dabear2438]

Good to see you and a new video. Always enjoy your work and learn something each time.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you!

[@SunsMIA]

such an underrated channel, keep up the great work!

[@franciscosandiego3026]

Always great video brother from the imperial county California 👍👍🇺🇲

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you 🙏!

[@franciscosandiego3026]

@@forresthaggertychannel4301 I watch all your videos very informative I like your channel keep them coming 👍👍👍

[@ramirofrom3000]

i swear i get asmr vibes from your videos, just a couple days ago i was showing your channel to friends, i missed your uploads

[@gafrers]

Beautiful plane. Great Quality as always

[@Ryanboy2020]

Very cool Forrest! I love the attention to detail and the well explained graphics. Great job!

[@davidheinzmann4403]

Thanks ! Always enjoy seeing the survivor Valkyrie at the Air Force Museum wondering if that crash could happen today.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

I think from past mistakes that crash would not happen today. It would be great to see #1 fly again.

[@irgski]

Thanks for taking us along on your journey of exploration…to places I will, most likely, never go.

[@Lousasshol]

Outstanding job , thanks for sharing forest .. a tragic case I often research is the station nightclub fire .. there is a vid online of the actual fire that is very disturbing yet oddly fascinating as well ( how quick the building went up and how so many could not escape)

[@15Med3]

there are so many crash sites in Cali. All a bit of a hike/drive, but still there....Happens unfortunately when you are in the area of the largest aircraft testing site. Heard about this one a long time ago from a show Peter Merlin (fantastic aviation archeologist) was on, but never really saw vlogs/vids on the sites. Another awesome vid

[@GodWearsGucci]

This is an incredible and also sad event that I was not aware of. Always bringing interesting events and locations that we can learn from Mr. Haggerty. Stay well as always 💕

[@Totoxert]

Thank you, Forrest!

[@BlastinRope]

wild, ive been aware of this story for awhile and never knew there was a “crash site” that you couls still visit. Im currently saving up for a solid truck so I can join people like you exploring the desert and experiencing these cool slices of history. thank you for this video!

[@rudybishop9089]

You my friend is what KZbin is all about - Salute to you and our fallen Champions !

[@jakejames9287]

More outstanding work Forrest! So thoughtful, respectful and well done.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you kindly!

[@schwabit989]

Thank you for the informative and respectful video.

[@stevet8121]

Outstanding as always, Forrest. June 8th 1966 I was getting ready to graduate high school, so it seems like a long time ago.

[@MeaHeaR]

Excellenté Channul, I love these deep dives into your american history Sir

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you 🙏 I’m happy you enjoy it!

[@randygarmon]

Very nice and professional. I remember that crash. I was 14 years old and the son of a fighter pilot. God bless you Forrest. You did a good thing here.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you for your kind words!

[@stu281]

Great post glad to see you’re still posting fantastic posts.

[@mikelee3316]

Absolutely marvellous stuff…. Thanks for taking the time to do it and post it. I’m not saying definitely but if l had happened to come across a small white rivet of the Valkyrie lying in the dirt… it may have gone in my pocket

[@user-tn1vc1xz5d]

There's a fab book about the XB70 written by Graham Simons. Full of detail, really interesting. Superb video, helps tell the story in a new way. Thank you sir 😊😊

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Glad it was helpful!

[@hakon5873]

Love the on location videos forrest. Awesome

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

More to come!

[@mynameisvna]

Great seeing another video! You are an excellent story teller! Thanks Forrest!! :))

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you Vianey for watching them! More to come.

[@jackdaniels2905]

I always look forward to your videos! Rest in peace to those lost that day.

[@aaronkcmo]

Great video. Thank you for being respectful to the crash sites.

[@hambam7533]

Like the way you are always accurate in your locations , it shows you take this seriously , thanks forest really enjoy your channel

[@JackCh91]

It's been a while! Always a good day when you upload friend, thanks for the effort and research you put into these!

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Glad you like them!

[@josephdale69]

You’re back! Heck yeah.

[@cmcmcmcm2354]

So happy to see the upload, thanks for another great video from the desert! Great job with the details and explanation of the story.

[@shaunwilliams4231]

So preventable:( I'm glad the last one is at the Air Force Museum in Dayton

[@mikewhitcomb6558]

My old desert racing club, the Lost Coyotes MC has hosted several dual sport rides to aircraft wreck sites out there. One of them started at Teagle Wash and we went to the Valkyrie, the F-104, X-15 and B-1 Bomber. One of our old time members (RIP Mr. Wilson) was the powerplant crew chief on Mike Adams ill fated flight in the X-15 and had stories about them searching for all of the wreckage for months afterwards.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

That’s awesome! Maybe someday I’ll get to all those places.

[@mikewhitcomb6558]

@@forresthaggertychannel4301 The B-1 is maybe 20 miles at the most to the west of the Valkyrie. The X-15 is maybe 3 or 4 miles in on Trona Rd from 395, and then a mile or 2 off the pavement, easily accessable in a pick up.

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

@mikewhitcomb6558 thank you! I want to do a video on those crashes.

[@lindadobberstein2035]

Always love your stories! RIP to those who passed!

[@arthurlevine1840]

Boy, your videos are fascinating treats! Desert air collisions brings to mind the commercial collision over the Grand Canyon.

[@davidgoodman6924]

Thank you once again Forrest for a great informative video! You go above and beyond as always!! 👍

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you!

[@armand_v_cpt]

Such an amazing video and thanks for all your effort sharing this with us. You are a legend!

[@aleksvidaic9021]

Excellent video, thank you for the hard work!

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@josepheller8395]

Thank you for telling the story and showing us sites that I will probably never get to see.

[@jokeroneninesevenzero]

👍👍! Very interesting. You're a great history teacher Forrest.

[@ELMS]

Thank you for this. I found it very moving.

[@Storm-dy3jy]

nothing quite like this channel for real

[@ronny2835]

awesome! Thanks for the video!

[@Squib1911]

Excellent video. Thanx for the information in the description section and thanx for sharing this history with the audience who might not be able to visit these sites themselves.

[@chazworth6604]

Wow i was watching one of your videos when you uploaded this, crazy

[@kimsinclair9100]

Very interesting! This isn’t something I’d normally watch but glad I did.

[@joep4235]

Awesome history lesson... Thanks so much !!

[@avomeech6826]

I love your channel❤❤

[@forresthaggertychannel4301]

Thank you! I truly appreciate it 🙏

[@johndemeen5575]

Best not too souvenir any little pieces, I think it would bring bad luck. Or bad karma. Million thanks to you for keeping me entertained. St.Paul,Minnesota.