The Problem with Smash Character Discords

[@Spyder-Marth]

I usually don't interact with character discords. For Marth, I specifically go to the discord simply because there are MU notes written by Rizeasu and other top Marths. I read those notes for info and use it to improve. Other than that... I can't judge that discord much. But seriously, you're speaking facts. I relate to the "nobody listens to you because you're not a top player." There are times when I am leagues better than another Marth main, but even they know stuff that I don't. Someone showed me a neat trick with Down Smash and it freaking works. Mind you that I never dropped a game to this dude but he showed me an effective strategy. That's why I never write people off just because I beat them most of the time. Heck, I am worse than Mr. E but I taught him some things about Marth, and showed him many unorthodox techniques that work (I have a public video on it to prove this). We need to listen to everyone, good or bad. Chances are they know something we don't and even if they are wrong, that is a great opportunity for discussion and helping THEM get better.

[@BaselardFE]

YES BROTHER

[@chzrls]

Leaving a certain character discord was so good for my mental lol

[@UltLuigi1]

right?

[@CaptainG-zero]

2:38 ayo I cannot believe that side b train worked 😂😂😂

[@dabcat939]

It was a Really Nice Clip!

[@andrewedmunds4583]

This makes me think back to when PJiggles made a video on every character’s worst move, which he got from the character’s discord. Most were fine, but at the time the Kirby discord told him that dair was his worst move, insisting that hammer had better uses. From that point on I decided to take opinions from character discords with a grain of salt.

[@lightnin2356]

I find it sad that I have gotten more information from asking a question on reddit of all places than a character discord. For example, I was asking a question on the aegis discord on how I could improve (Neutral, advantage, disadvantage, etc.), and all they said was "just do whatever, she's broken." That answer obviously didn't help. I asked the same question on the competitive smash subreddit, r/crazyhand, and I got more useful information than in the aegis discord Edit: To add on to this, another thing that I have experienced in character discords is the lack of useful tips. I have asked for matchup advice for my characters and most of time I would get answers like "Just (insert verb here) them" or " Don't (insert verb here)" Hell, there was a time where I asked for advice on the young link matchup as Falco and everyone that was active in the channel just said "Get this man the matchup notes," which I never got. I hate that it just feels like that people are reluctant to give advice to people that need it

[@ShadowMixes69]

Dodged a bullet for not joining a character discord in the first place

[@BigMarioFan28]

I get some trolls like this from time to time but I'm lucky to have my local smash discord that is always ready and happy to give advice. Whenever I ask a question on a character discord nowadays I expect to either be ignored or mocked xD. I do get some really nice answers from time to time that make it worth tho

[@yoitesuoh6157]

Have had a bad history with character discords ever since the smash 4 days. Most just have some weird hierarchy system and like you described a lot of peoples questions or advice just get ignored on deaf ears. I only ever ended up using those as as social space and just improved in my own time or with close friends or in locals etc. I just think a lot of people's attitudes and ego make those places unenjoyable to try and actually improve in.

[@Thelowestofthelowtiers]

Well you see,you ignored the red flags: 1. You went into a *Pyra/Mythra discord* . 2. Pretty sure you found more NSFW artwork than actually tips. 3. You joined a *Smash discord* . Kinda did this to yourself man,but now you know.

[@WeAreSTILLYOSHIN]

I started playing Yoshi about last December and joined the Yoshi discord last January or February, and the place is fantastic. I saw this video and got kinda confused because I never joined a toxic smash cord, maybe one with a few toxic players at the most. I decided to look at some other discords, just check it out. I completely understand where you get your argument from. I appreciate this video shedding light to some areas of the smash community that aren’t as friendly for lesser experienced players. Keep up the good work ❤❤❤

[@LewisGeter]

I haven't even watched the video (due to being at work) but I agree with your issue with communities. I think there are more people in these servers that are pessimistic and don't really give good advice due to not being very knowledgeable of their character/MUs. Even the aegis discord I'm in it's very hard to find open minded people cause majority of it are people who just started playing the character and then people who've been playing the character but are cynical and pessimistic. It's a tough life. Edit: Now that I watched the video I agree. Most ppl don't know how to ask good questions and most people don't know how to actively listen and give good advice. And as for the hierarchy that's understandable but it is stupid because you can be mid level but still give good advice. Ego is a strong thing within the smash community and I think that has inhibited the growth of characters and players as well.

[@JagadaiValefore]

At least the aegis discord have only the ego problem alongside very vague questions but theses are the most problematic part so idk

[@LewisGeter]

@@JagadaiValefore It's not all bad I just wish there were more optimistic and open minded players. It would be more productive and overall grow everyone

[@PerkyPyra]

sweeping generalizations get under my skin so much when discussing this game. I'm sure telling the Cloud main that he just "shouldn't lose" to K. Rool is gonna do so much good for their development and cultivation as a player. And totally won't just come across as rude and a put-down.

[@methodtomyradness2939]

i feel that. cloud cord sucks has been my start gg tag for like a year. esuna's my goat but seriously some of the pr players can go suck my nuts. if you want k rool help though imma right you a paragraph because i aint stepping foot back in there. basically if we're talking armor there are two things to deal with it, spacing around it, and damage based armor that comes from crown. crowns armor gets broken by a slight charge on upsmash, or you can get a grab on him. k rool becomes active as soon as crown starts its journey back, so he will try to do shenanigans if that happens. you can grab him and use i frames from your throw animation to avoid said shenanigans. spacing around belly armor is harder with some moves than others. full hop forward air will allow you to space above belly armor if he is rising with nair and can allow you to combo a dtilt. you can also use uptilt if you aim for his feet if you cross him up. krool is also tall which means you can use lingering up air falling on his shield to either start a combo or roll behind him on shield hit because he suffers with crossups. k rool is also tall enough that auto cancel back air (rising short hop bair without a fast fall) will hit him, and as long as you drift away he has a hard time punishing it. my most reliable form of killing k rool is with limit cross slash offstage, he will try to hit you with propeller if you are too slow. if you hit the lingering hit of up air and have limit its a confirm into grounded finishing touch at 75ish. if youve been pressuring his shield and he doesnt angle his shield up you can get a sneaky ft that way. lingering up air and rising short hop back air both auto space around his counter. his counter is best in the air or to gimp so occasionally try to read wether or not you need to cross slash air stall when recovering. -courtesy of Spyke. good luck gamer and keep grinding💪

[@methodtomyradness2939]

also his grounded approach options all lose to spotdodge if you get his timing down. he can read and punish the spotdodge hard but it means he will run into threat range and do nothing so you could just mix in a dash back occasionally and react

[@andrewedmunds4583]

A skilled Krool can win against any inexperienced cloud.

[@PerkyPyra]

@@methodtomyradness2939 Oh I don't actually play Cloud, I was just using him as an example. I play Shulk tho so a good deal of what you said is still somewhat applicable. I appreciate the time and effort you put into your post, thanks for writing it! :D

[@CaptainG-zero]

I had a handful of experience with all the things you talked about in the video, its not just in smash discords but from other fighting games too that sometimes people give lackluster advice or outright ignore/belittle the problem when the simple thing to do is to sit down and discuss exactly what the problem is. The git gud and don't jump mentality does not promote any growth at all when there are some instances where you need to jump or the player read your moves and sensed your bloodlust from a vod review. We all have different playstyles and definitely want to become the best, though we are not going to be the next mkleo and may never will be because we all have a preference as to how we wanna fight each other. I rather hear constructive criticism that actually helps, than to have some one just outright say that "oh you are bad, you need more practice". Can you tell me exactly what I need to practice? Can you point it out and say what I can do better in the situation? All necessary for all of us to become the best versions of ourselves that we can be fighting game or not.

[@Icecreambutwith]

Really good video, ive had similar problems in general smash servers where people won't take my advice because of the character I play.

[@sselcho]

certain character cords care great imo, like Robcord, but god damn, some like Jokercord are flat out useless

[@Honest_Mids_Masher]

Honestly this is kinda similar to how it is in Yu-Gi-Oh deck discords. Hierarchy due to competitive experience or playing with a competitive mindset despite a non competitive player having a deeper understanding of a deck, Ego definitely gets in the way of things too and they give advice that like you said does not apply.

[@surulez1463]

Smashcords really have that problem of git gud at the mu instead of giving advice

[@methodtomyradness2939]

cloud cord gets that alot. it was occasionally enjoyable to see someone ask advice and have it pay off when they come back saying they won in a mu because of good advice but cloud cords pr players think themselves above helping noobs and only come off their high horse to shit talk midlevel players and the advice or opinions they give

[@thealgorithm7921]

The funniest part about asking for tips in a mu and (imagine you win it) Is that when you ask for the tips the player will talk about how easy it is but never say why its so easy for you to win other than “its easy” like what about it is easy?

[@leoerus]

I was and always have been a mid level player in the smash community, and was ultimately driven away from it due to to undeserved ego of this community. These people in real life are often losers, underachievers, mediocre, yet I got sucked into that stupid hierarchy of assigning value to people and their words just by tournament results and related status. It all hit me that when muteace released a video talking about the problem with smash ultimate many people in my local community were agreeing and praising him, while those were things I was saying for years and I was only called an idiot. That broke the illusion, and I realized I wouldnt let the quality of people who act that way (many of which flock to smash) talk to me in the way they do. I have since then hated the overall community. Dont really fuck with them. That isnt to say its all bad, I still have friends and I still enjoy playing and entering events from time to time, but what you said is highly accurate. This community is rotten and the people are genuinely a overall high group of losers. I engage in a few other hobbies with related communities, some fighting game related and some not, and its genuinely not this insufferable. I've made more improvements just getting better at reflecting on my own gameplay and talking to the few players who are willing to have an actual conversation about the game. Sorry you also have had a poor experience to this degree, but I also appreciate you calling attention to this using your platform.

[@justinrush7463]

This is an issue with most fighting game discords. They're almost always just echo chambers where popularity trumps all.

[@robinreviews5077]

Thankfully, I haven't experienced this much in the Smash community, but I think this is more of a general discord issue. People on Discord have convinced themselves that your advice only matters when you are accomplished but if you have an ounce of critical thinking, you can tell that accomplished people don't always give the best advice. Especially, people who are naturally gifted or have unconventional methods that don't apply to everyone. This situation is a classic instance of groupthink, which is a practice where a group of people sacrifice creativity and diversity of opinion in favor of conformity within a group. Groupthink generally happens when people look for clout from influential leaders or people within communities and when people do not want to think super critically. That's why you sometimes see the same people asking super general questions and also being the ones to only listen to influential figures. Groupthink is definitely not right since like I mentioned earlier, you are sacrificing creativity and diversity of opinions within the community, and the only way to stop groupthink from occurring is by bringing awareness to it. Hopefully, this video brings awareness to groupthink to certain character discords and we don't have to face worse versions of this in the future.

[@Nako3]

As someone who is the best at the game I totally agree with you

[@citrus5797]

Love it when the entire roster refuses to help teach the Jigglypuff matchup because apparently they lose to everyone LMAO

[@Supersonic37838]

I just use Kirby against jigs

[@citrus5797]

@@Supersonic37838 that's literally one of our best matchups

[@Supersonic37838]

@@citrus5797 Yeah I use Kirby against Jigglypuff for fun, if I’m serious then I would prob choose someone like metaknight

[@SuperSaiyanDCG]

I would rather shower then be a top player in all honesty so I don't care if people don't listen to me.

[@Stardust_Torna]

I just got this on my recommended. Nice pfp and video lad 👍 🔥

[@littlemisseevee2309]

yknow the first part I really never see, but I think its because of how I present information, I am concise yet specific about a lot of things and mostly try to ask questions or watch someone’s gameplay then give advice, when I give good advice, people typically listen, when its bad advice they usually ignore it, I usually present a lot of info confidently though, unless I am absolutely unsure about the advice I am giving, I’m a mid level fighting game player at this point though. My goal is to make info as digestible as possible though while targeting things as accurately as possible, plus also targeting maybe some things that get overlooked, questions that dont get asked but should. Edit: I dont think this came off how I wanted it to… but I just never really come across a lot of this in my experiences with character discords, my idea why may be how I present information, plus I generally dont interact with too many big egos, I think mine is enough haha (still a work in progress to not let it overtake me)

[@richardszoghy1907]

Shoutouts to ZeldaCord. It's one of the best places in the Smash space.

[@supershadow125]

This video is why i left the Sephcord years ago. I didn't feel like i was learning sephiroth, and seeing tweek make questionable choices made me think that there is more to the character. People kept asking the same damn questions, having the same damn issues and given a solution that did not work, and their solutions were supposed to be the end all be all when i clearly wasn't then and certainly not now. Corrincord and Robincord have been my homes for smash and learning too. I heard Zeldacord is sick to be in, but i don't play zelda lol.

[@omurice2447]

It seems to be soooo hit and miss with charactercords. Luigicord is one of the best servers I've been in, and the people there genuinely seem to care about each other, and it is probably one of the most labbed out discords of them all (for a character that doesn't benefit from too many techs). I totally suggest picking up Luigi and going there, everyone rocks and you would learn so much more than just to grab at 0

[@Heartache2491]

Most character discords are so painful. I can say though, Pac-Man and Olimar discords are pretty chill! Been a part of Pac-Cord since about 2019(?), and its pretty great :) Olimarcord is still new to me, but chill so far for the few months ive been in.

[@GalaxianSR]

I miss the Sm4sh discords, people cared so much more, and it felt like a real community of players who share a commonality. I was one of the big labbers in the Kirby discord for sm4sh, and we had in depth, interesting discussions and actually tried to help each other and develop the character, a wild concept. We didn't shit talk the character nearly as much, we would help people, make resources, and when we weren't talking about Kirby meta, we treated each other as people. It's been a long while, and the server is lost to time, but it was genuinely a great place that actually served its purpose. The smash discords nowadays just feel like shitposts more than anything, and it's a real shame. Thank god I don't take smash seriously anymore haha

[@BaselardFE]

I really feel you dude. Spent majority of my time in the Shulk Discord back then and it was such a blast.

[@owenlewis6546]

the ice climber cord is dope js

[@Supersonic37838]

Because I played a lot of characters, I joined the soniccord, Kirbycord, Metacord, Megacord, Mewtwocord, Falcocord, Paccord, and the greninja discord. There advice is actually decent and well designed. I learned how Kirby weak nair can combo into dash attack and back air. Can’t wait for all the advice I will receive. (For the love of god I play 20-30 characters decently and I don’t wanna join that much servers) still fun though, get to share my clips and get feedback.

[@themaraca778]

0:58 I get treated like this so much, and its FINALLY good to see somebody else acknowledge it. Many of the character cords I've gone to have done this, notably for me, the Stevecord (laugh at me). There are exceptions (thankfully the Yoshicord accepted me as one of them and respected my opinions, regardless of me being pro or not), but it seems like most of these discords follow this same mindset of hierarchy... Saddening

[@Pslamist]

If you are reading this comment, you have received a free pass to critique me and offer tips until your heart's content.

[@mathasus]

I also find when asking for advice/vod review, so often the advice is how you should have played, if you played perfectly. Which I don't find very helpful as it's almost impossible to play perfectly and always make the right decisions for every situation.

[@logankingboo5654]

I agree with this video a lot. The amount of times I’ve been told that a MU is free or that I should just mash is a lot lol. Love your stuff btw it’s awesome.

[@YuriNoel7]

Tbh I’ve only had these issues in very popular character cords. In character cords of lesser played characters more/niche ones the players and members there tended to be far more open minded, cordial, and far less condescending/ego driven.

[@michaelplaysbass8311]

The Duck Hunt discord is super friendly! Very cool group

[@clone7272]

Recently, I’ve picked up Mii Swordfighter and joined the swordcord. I’ve gotten a lot of advice, and everyone there is great! It’s the only character cord I’ve enjoyed and I’ve gotten advice that actually improved my Swordfighter! I do agree with your points, I just happened to find a great discord

[@BaselardFE]

Honestly? That's great to hear :D

[@MokiYesssssss]

"any advice for this matchup?" "Its so easy and free lmao" Ok? If it so easy then explain it to me that annoys me so much

[@nacligang]

(Haven't used character cords since forever but) The hierarchy that character cords carry genuinely made me worse at the game because it felt like many cords had crab mentalities towards especially people who were still learning the fundamentals of the game back when i started playing I genuinely learned more from twitter posts about steve being broken every day for a year after his release than i ever learned between the two years earlier when i used the character cords

[@2thre3]

"The problem with Smash character Discords" - They're full of PDF files, people with delusions of grandeur and people that look up to other people who don't know how to wipe properly.

[@izlander2353]

And that’s why I do not like discussing smash with anyone lol

[@Wellingtonssbu]

The discord for my region is so helpful and welcoming that I daren’t join a character discord and spoil it.

[@Vallite_God]

Yeah I was a booster for a Smash Bros Corrin Discord and got bullied for "Playing Corrin because I like them" and the mods actively shunned me for boosting *their* server... I also recall a Lucas player asking for help in that server because the people in the Lucas Discord were unhelpful for them.

[@BaselardFE]

That's just sad. People cannot treat the forgotten king like this

[@ThePrime957]

I didn’t know you didn’t compete. For some reason I thought you did. Lately I’ve been wondering about my current smash goals and whether or not I really want to compete myself.

[@BaselardFE]

I used to, but my last tournament was in 2019 lol.

[@ThePrime957]

@@BaselardFE what made you stop?

[@alouby]

the melee ones are fine, especially dr.mario and bowsercord

[@Charlyzard_ssb]

I think complaining about people ignoring tips is the last thing you can complain about bc obviously people want good tips and if the person providing the tips is percieved as worse or of equal skill as the one asking for tips that obviously wont work for them. They should be nice and thank you anyway, but realistically they wont follow your advice bc it can be actively detrimental to their growth as a player

[@evotheevolutions]

2:38 5.99 pk fire be like

[@Supersonic37838]

Wait there were character discords…. And I play 10-20 character’s decently… oh boy. I hope the sonic discord got that good advice.

[@riotron1026]

Unfortunately the community is filled with too many maladaptive individuals. Socially inept gamers first and well adjusted people second. It really makes for needlessly volatile spaces.

[@tpgomega9234]

A touchy subject, and yea, it doesn't just apply to smash community Fire emblem is another crazy chaos mess of a place. One community that almost ruined completely my love for that game. Can't say anything without getting some unhinged guy that thinks there's only 1 way to play or the advice you can give is bad

[@Thrillager]

Why is almost every member of the villager discord also in the isabelle discord, but almost no one in the isabelle one are in the villager discord?

[@fuhbox]

Sums up the toxic Smash community quite well, just look at my handle

[@zate5355]

The banned aegiscord didnt even like the character. It was just a server for one annoying guys clique.

[@methodtomyradness2939]

there was an aegis discord that got banned?

[@BaselardFE]

WAIT IT GOT BANNED??

[@zate5355]

@@BaselardFE yeah, a mod for the greater smashcord network threw a fit over a harmless pyra art and another aegiscord took the old ones place.

[@BaselardFE]

yikes dude

[@meltyyyyy.]

arcfire

[@j.ovinnn]

No one’s required to listen to your opinion though. If you give someone advice and they don’t take it that’s not a problem, it’s just something that happens. Even if u think your advice would really help them at the end of the day they’re not forced to take it.

[@BaselardFE]

Of course, that's completely fine and not the problem lol. It's the whole deal of getting completely ignored when people ask for your input that I have issue with.

[@greninjaarc-z396]

those exist!?

[@Liquidology1]

where IS the discord for aegis?

[@BaselardFE]

in the french dimension

[@Liquidology1]

i finally found it after a while

[@Waymen.]

great video!

[@Evixyn]

Woomy