Why Mythra is so WEIRD

[@jerry3115]

part of the reason her moves are so minus yet don't feel unsafe is because they're so fast. Even if you know a particular attack is punishable, by the time you realize you actually blocked that attack specifically, there's a good chance you have already missed your window.

[@hakirayleigh]

I believe specially in high levels, the Aegis main don't use very well the foresight. Cause they need patience and think Mythra is 10 hits and switch to Pyra for killing. I believe Mythra could be played in a safer way but against Diddy, Min Min and Yoshi.

[@vxnomous8818]

@@hakirayleigh diddy *braindead giggling”

[@takarijbartleby]

I love using intentional Foresights. As mentioned in the video, Mythra is better played less so rish down and more so bait and punish with her movement.

[@TeeKayDee]

You can set up foresight by standing, walking or blocking in the right spots and reacting to the situation you're looking for. If players don't set up their foresights it'll be harder of feel luckier to find them.

[@Ace-py5nf]

Palu can’t do anything in that clip on those tilts on shield tho.

[@quinn7427]

Exactly my thought

[@Holeinshoo]

Yeah, it makes sense in concept but the example clip isn't great because Palu out-of-shield is dog water 😂

[@AWater22]

She could have probably shield grabbed the first f tilt or at least jump back and go for fair.

[@Ace-py5nf]

I don’t think she’s close enough to shield grab. And if you’re punish is to jump back and go for fair that means mythras moves are functionally safe on shield because your only punish is to back off and fair.

[@Bladieblah]

Palu f-air OoS is 12f, the F-tilt is -10 if it hits on the second active frame. If Mythra does another f-tilt, jab (as in the clip), or other standing move Palu f-air will beat it out. But f-air out of shield will lose to d-tilt I imagine because it doesn't hit crouchers. Jab 1 is -15 and fully punishable by f-air but it can be canceled early in jab 2 so it's a risk. F-air would have traded with jab1 in the clip but it's tough to react to the first f-tilt. The rest of the string is not punishable unless you gamble on the jab1. That is not to say the minus frames don't matter, they make it risky for Mythra to continue the blockstring, it provides room for counterplay against follow up tilts. If Mythra does a string of 2 d-tilts you can short hop d-air with Palu in between the two tilts, but you have to read the second d-tilt is coming. Arguably Palu even has a true punish on the first f-tilt if she performs a perfect full momentum n-air OoS since it comes out frame 8. It's really hard to do though and I'm not even sure it would have reached.

[@dragonfruito]

An difficult aspect I have to learn from playing the Aegis is knowing and playing different characters. Some who are rushdowns like Captain Falcon, Lucario, and infamously Roy who is the best to contrast/compare to Mythra. And even though someone like her or even Joker may have some safe moves to land, their grounded tools do not fit ideal safe frame data of a rushdown character. (usually more startup than it is safe to land anymore hits) As Baselard stated, Mythra is significantly better to be played as a hit-and-run/bait-and-punish playstyle with her movement. She can play neutral fairly well playing this way and you can be rewarded if you space her tilts or aerials as fine as Pyra. Albeit, less range means you get to hit shields closer than her. It differs in certain matchups however, but it won't hurt to learn the opp's OoS options to get around. Additionally, because she has great fastfall and movement speed overall, Mythra players should be encouraged to go for tomahawk options as well. Especially going for grabs!!! I can personally say that I play and win more matches confidently against someone like Snake, Diddy, or Pikachu who are expecting me to land an aerial at them. Mixing up your options against shields can help adaptability and overall quick decision making in neutral with Mythra. (Thank you for reading my TED talk lol)

[@cristianiniguez7915]

W comment

[@mando76m]

As a ZSS and Joker player, playing Mythra with a bait and punish/whiff punish playstyle has always been easy for me. I'm surprised that people actually tried to play her as a rushdown

[@electromere3539]

I had to develop mythra bait and punish out of desperation cause I learned the hard way of mythras bad shield pressure, I think people who play her as rushdown either take the bait and punish route or give up on mythra

[@raven-a]

"The framedata of Roy" Oh, the framedata of a top tier, is that a bad thing? 😂🎉

[@nightslash20]

Honestly, as someone who plays both K Rool and Palu, I understand the beginning statement Mythra requires a bit more learning than Pyra And Sonic is faster than Mythra unless you count the tech where you spam start up dash And Mythra sorta takes a lot of inspiration from her home game

[@chzrls]

For something people struggle with: finding a kill because they force Pyra into situations she's not built for. Mythra makes the opening for Pyra to get the kill not just press buttons til they die which leads into the main aegis struggle being patience.

[@BaselardFE]

Yaaas

[@Supersonic37838]

@@BaselardFE as a sonic main we resist the urge to not mash the buttons

[@GhostbusterPalu]

During the DLC announcement era, I wanted a XC2 rep for the longest time in Smash because I played the game and loved it (wanted Rex using the two's powers and his own moveset, but the Aegis herself was still an absolute win), so not being able to play them correctly tilted me and I dropped them, continuing to main Palu as I've done since the Wii U/3DS days. I'll be sure to used this info whenever I play them again, because I definitely want to do it. I love the Aegis to begin with and I love their fighter balance concept (fast grinder and slow hard-hitter). Thanks for inspiring me and other Aegis players with this video!

[@portercruickshankdefarias5641]

Ngl I find mythra very intuitive to play. This is probably because the 2 characters I've mained the longest are sheik and byleth. Sure, mythra in terms of frames isn't safe on shield, but when spaced she can be in some matchups. But for me this isn't what's important. Think about it, the most important thing that comes from running up to your opponent and nairingis that it anti airs and therefore against a decent opponent IT CONDITIONS SHIELD. Because of how fast and unreactable her burst options are (because of her movement speed) can get an unbelievable amount of tomahawk and straight run up grabs. From there you can just play neutral. They dash back to evade grab? Overshoot witha nair. They spot dodge? Yay nair beats that as well and nets a decent combo. They shield? Tomahawk. They try and challenge the nair? More matchup specific but depending on how they do it, you could dash back and whiff punish, oos them or if you're feeling fancy just intentional foresight. Of course what I've described is just normal neutral. In advantage juggle with muthra, edge guard and possibly ledgeteap with pyra is what I found works for me (although this can differ from player to player). At the end of the day though I don't play this character, for me this is the playstyle I find intuitive and effective when going on a fp2 power trip in elite smash.

[@Bladieblah]

"fp2 power trip" alright, what's your GSP with these characters because somehow I doubt that's much of a power trip and I have more of a power trip just by being really good (with a non fp2 character btw). Fp2 is so overblown with how strong it supposedly is, only Steve and Kazuya are unbalanced, the rest is fine. It's silly to say it's an fp2 power trip when you have at best a 70-80 percent win rate and do better with your main (I'd hope)

[@user-it2kq4ty9q]

mythra didnt feel weird to me at all and im a bowser main its literally just shorthop nair dash attack and dash grab. if you hit nair or dash grab you do a combo and thats basically her neutral

[@TwinHacari]

​@@Bladieblahjust react mythra is very easy.

[@TwinHacari]

​@@Bladieblahall characters in elite. Just react. Stop thinking its that simple. Go work out and get a good mind body connection going if it's too unnatural

[@Bladieblah]

@@TwinHacari All characters in elite barely means anything, the bar for elite is extremely low. What's your highest? And btw I wasn't saying Mythra was difficult, just that Aegis (and fp2 overall) is overrated. I do work out btw but that does not help reactions and reaction aren't even the most important to begin with in fighting games

[@raikagebanksy]

yeah i pretty much agree. although pressure in the corner and simple advantage state is where she shines especially as a rush down but i do get ur point. before this video i did wonder about mythra’s capabilities of camping or even just playing the hit and run game and i genuinely think it’s a good way to play her. i personally don’t have a problem with mythra it’s usually pyra i have a problems with even tho i’ve gotten better. mythra translated and clicked for me harder than pyra cuz i played palu so a fast char is what i wanted. with pyra she’s slow does really good with whiff punishing and hits hard and i can personally space her stuff better than mythra since i play byleth. idk she’s a weird top tier but i do think other play styles can benefit her as long as the player can execute said play style

[@Bladieblah]

The main strength of high mobility characters is their ability to whiff punish and set the pace of the match. If she had kirby or shoto like tilts she'd be busted. One of the best pieces of coaching advices I've ever heard that really describes well the transition from mid-high to higher level play is that the goal should be to make your opponent move first. This applies to all characters but it especially suits the strengths of characters like Mythra, Joker, and Sheik

[@TwinHacari]

Yeah it's definitely overthinking. Shes incredibly easy. You just react and outposition people with your speed + range. Very instinctive character.

[@Bladieblah]

@@TwinHacari You in Europe? We can play a few games, see who's the better player

[@electromere3539]

I was a beginner mythra and I agree that lower levels is only where rushdown mythra is good, through coaching from my friend and observing how I won (and stealing mkleos neutral) bait, tech chase and whiff punish is the future of mythra, and pyra I now use when in positional advantage not just kill percent

[@grahf_ssb]

I'm maining Aegis since the beginning and I always felt more comfortable with Mythra I never saw her as a rushdown character, not even an aggressive one, at the beginning I knew she wasn't safe on shield so I didn't try to hit shields and I was just punishing things Now that I'm way better at the game I know that you also can bring ambiguity to her moves to make them safer, by variating the timings or number of hits for example (Nair is so good for this...), in certain mu you have to approach and try to hit them but not necessarily with obvious pokes, if you have the right mix-up in the right situation you can still win And if you don't want to hit shields you also can grab, call out jumps, stop the opponent trying to approach (idk how to say that in English), overshoot, whiff-punish, camp... And obviously it's way better offline because you have to react; I swear that even with mods to halve the lag I still absolutely can't be as good with Mythra online, not even close She's really hard to play well, imo nobody can truly do it actually but if you can do it a little you easily see how she can be really broken Anyway, amazing video as usual, I love all the work you put in those

[@givecamichips]

Mythra is so fun when she clicks, when you're chaining dash attacks, using your Foresights, and landing Chroma Dust and Ray of Punishments.

[@jj6148]

3:16 The back hit of mythra's uptilt is -14, but front hit of mythra's uptilt is -9 or -10 depending on whether you hit the last or second to last frame which can def make it obnoxious to deal with for opponents if spaced properly. Also, I feel like the sequence you used at 6:39 was a bad example to talk about mythra's ground normals being unsafe because the only thing that would've punished the ftilt here was a grab (that had to be frame perfect) which isn't always possible to react to, esp online. The jab following is techinically "unsafe" but is a mix up as it can be cancelled into more jabs and trying to punish it (esp on reaction) isn't smart. Lastly, the dtilt cosmos did was completely safe on palu as she has no options to punish a -10 move at that range, with that hurbox shift (grab is too slow and would whiff anyway).

[@gyro4433]

@@jj6148 yeah i remember nairo said that that aegis does not have safe moves on shield but fast moves that make it hard to feel comfortable to punish

[@grahf_ssb]

You know you can buffer oos in shield stun... Right ?

[@AiZm8]

I'm glad someone said it, also the fact that Mythra has a lot less shield stun makes it way harder to react to on top of having less total frames

[@GameMasterWLC]

@@AiZm8 THIS

[@dorfguy1929]

I think the lack of stun she has can be absolutely obnoxious to deal with.(I main seph, and play Roy and kazuya as well). Even when I play characters with better out of shields tho its mythra's pressure that's so frustrating. I feel like she can be successful as a rush down in a few specific matchups where their out of shield is bad (seph). Used to hate aegis but now knowing some of this, I might not mind as much.

[@AlterXfate]

Never though I’d hear the phrase modus operandi in a smash video. Respect.

[@surulez1463]

Finally it's being discussed

[@homuraschannel4184]

Im totally agree with you. Im main aegis but im better with Pyra because i've learn her correct spacing and autocancels really well, but i struggle a lot while using Mythra because she lacks of "safe on shield moves". Honestly i thought i was the only one with that problem, but now i have a better idea of what i have to do with her and instead of try a rushdown gameplay i will try with a more patient gameplay, just like i do with Pyra. Once i find my style with her i think i will improve a lot more with her.

[@justicetaylor3050]

I think I'm starting to notice my Samus has punished Mythra more easily than Pyra out of shield.

[@redshepherd32]

I feel like people prefer having a character that hits hard. Mythra has good frame data. Yet if her only purpose in meta is land a few combos just to switch to the heavy hitter. I honestly just think she seems lopsided as a character. Mythra is basically meant to be the shiek in the duo character dynamic. Yet pyra is just better than Zelda at getting kills. So I feel like mythra isn't even used to the same potential as high level shiek players. And, similar to shiek, also struggles with kills. Mythra really doesn't have reliable kill options. Lighting buster isn't really an issue. And photon edge gets more easy to punish as I play against it. If I'm landing Ridley skewer (yes really) against landing photon edge. It's not really a good move. Pyra has better specials. Mythra can get some saucy combo's but can't really close a stock.

[@unknownentity5354]

Imagine if sonix picked up mythra for her hit and run style.

[@Oz1455]

I see where you're coming from, but I also expected it to be something like, she's so fast that you can struggle to perfectly space everything, making it easier to make mistakes and run into dumb things. Pyra and Mythra's range is almost identical, and it's not so much their frame data, but how much shield stun Pyra does in comparison. Her slow speed also makes it easier to float around and find the right spacing, but it makes her very predictable, like Ike.

[@Whalordius]

Finally, some more info towards mythra. And it's exactly what I theorized. In fact I'm actually working on an MU thing and so far with each MU theory (before I even start writing it.) a majority of the time I end up thinking "play the MU slow and wait for the opponent while keeping them away with fair/Ftilt" since either one can chain into an rar bair or if you fuck it up frame trap them into getting combo'd anyways. It's kind of funny how we both came to such a similar conclusion

[@BaselardFE]

That IS funny

[@bailong8864]

@@Whalordius you guys have the same brain lmao But more seriously intried playing like this and people are really bad against "slow Mythra" and I feel like it's better to play like that to not get cheesed AT low pourcent against player who camped ledge

[@zer0mar322]

About mythra up air, it can actually be slightly safer than -5 if autocancelled, thanks to its frame 16 autocancel window. You have to hit with the frame 13 back hit, then land 3 frames later, in which case, it's -3. That also gives a couple extra frames of aerial drift for better spacing. This doesn't apply to Pyra's up air, since the autocancel window is later (but still insanely good tbh). Pyra up air somehow has equal landing lag as Mythra's though, making it safer anyways, especially with how much bigger it is. Also, with aerials that have a landing hitbox, -10 is actually not so bad. That's because the exact timing of the landing can be mixed up unreactably. Will you land before the final aerial hit, or after? The opponent needs to guess. It's not as good at this compared to Byleth nair, which has more hits and kill confirms to bolster its risk/reward profile, but still worth taking advantage of.

[@BlackRoseLN]

Everyone told me i need to be more aggressiv and doesnt understod why i wanted to play more Patient with mythra. Thank u for the great vid ❤

[@Icecreambutwith]

This video was a massive help, i main Luigi and recently started secondary aegis. I tend to play Mythra like she's super safe like Luigi but this has helped me see that she's more similar to Roy. Thank you

[@Nobody45602]

I feel like people overhype mythra that they don’t notice her obvious flaws in her gameplay

[@ludgerkres.1437]

Thanks for telling me her nair is -10. I will try to lose less to that move now.

[@zebraboi_]

oh my god this is such an eye opener

[@UltraThroatKick]

I have a similar experience to you where I am comfortable playing neutral with Pyra but have a hard time with Mythra because she feels so bad at poking and pressuring. I think she could be played more patiently like Wolf who is also pretty unsafe against shield. btw most characters can mash on Palutenas shield for free if you didn't know. It is one of her main weaknesses. Nairo would have had to get a parry or neutral reset there

[@Sayo27]

I play both at both neutral and to kill. At first I was all Pyra ( before I knew xenoblade and torna ), now I know both and I like them equally so I honestly just swap because yolo but my dream is to be good with both so that I’m never uncomfortable with either of them

[@richardszoghy1907]

Yo! I think you can put the "if you play a fast character, it doesn't mean you have to play fast" phrase better like "You play a fast character, so if you commit into attack animations you give your opponent the win", or something like that. Cool video tho, even as a non aegis player I enjoy your essays on the character!

[@bailong8864]

I love this video because as a co main roy and aegis for me Mythra was feeling way easier than pyra because i play mythra liké Roy with mouvement ans other things but for me it's pyra where I have a lot of troubles because her mobility in the ground is so Bad so for me it's thé other way around i love playong mythra but I hate pyra because I have hard Time finding the goods hit with het

[@BaselardFE]

That's interesting actually

[@dabcat939]

Lol, I always loved playing both, but at the start, I mostly loved playing Mythra because I didn't have it online at that time. Also, your video explained much more and better why it’s hard to play Mythra at a more advanced level and not a brain-dead character as we think (even every character pretty much gets harder at an advanced level and not brain-dead at the top level).

[@randomguy2530]

0:48 From my personal experience Mr. Baselard I believe that mythra is pretty difficult to master but so SO rewarding if you are able to get foresight down pack you have some devious combos but even I as the self proclaimed mythra main haven’t even mastered yet.

[@BaselardFE]

Foresight is the future

[@FinalKaiserKami]

I can't really put into words how I'm struggling with Aegis, but I know from the people that I see play them, I don't like playing the rushdown mythra, the fight until 60% then switch to Pyra and cheese, or the dair only Pyra and try to avoid doing what I see always keeps getting punished.

[@Swift640]

6:40 bro how is he challenging her here? Mythra’s grounded moves have zero shield stop frames and are safe enough on block that if he tried to react to the move hitting his shield then he’s going to be too slow to guarantee a punish. Meanwhile, mythra’s oos is insanely good and she gets access to shield on frame 1 to stop palu’s from swinging on her. And like even in the scenario where he does make a read on the exact timing of the completely unreactable poke on his shield how is he going to punish her for this? She’s going to low profile nair oos here because of how far away she is from palu and at frame 12 oos fair is too slow to true punish her for the poke even assuming that she doesn’t justlow profile the rising fair here as well.

[@andyboston3646]

Mythra's definetely better than the rest of the cast in terms of frame data even on tilts, even more so when you factor in the speed, you can't even react to punish those "not so safe" moves. She is the Sheik equivalent of a *swordie* but not Sheik herself. Also that Palutena match up was not a good example

[@silverkingtsk]

Great video what you said makes sense when I play her it felt a little weird but I couldn't put my finger on it so I played her differently I opt for a bait and punish play style with her

[@RaheemRollair]

Mythra should not be bad at math. She should have the frame data on a regular. And I was not expecting that clip with Nairo. Lol

[@TeeKayDee]

Not all of her stats are amazing. You didn't mention air accel, Mythra's is very poor (Pyra's is low too but that's besides the point). Her jump arcs are telegraphed and uncontrollable. I think that's the single most challenging thing about controlling Mythra; biggest weakness after her recovery since moving carefully and placing your hitboxes well can offset her lack of shield pressure. Lack of shield pressure is another weakness though so that makes for 3 big weaknesses overall. Difficulty KO'ing and below average weight aren't rare traits in Ultimate so I wouldn't consider them weaknesses. Even if they were, the others have a lot more impact.

[@krushed__DX]

itfs cuz she has yellow eyes shes dio and her stand dont work right

[@Magic_Ice]

Adam speech bubble

[@JonnyJayKhan]

This is another reason why she doesn’t actually beat Sonic since you have to rush down Sonic to get anything going

[@dagoodboy6424]

When mythra is red i get cornfused and think its pyra. I cant stand it.

[@mitrimind1027]

Mythra nair is safe on sheild though, so is neutral b.

[@GameMasterWLC]

Playing stubby mid tiers makes all of these moves totally unpunishable...

[@TheEmeraldTyrant]

@@GameMasterWLC as a Ganon main. You're correct

[@gr8645]

The Aegis are my #2 I rushdown AND kill with Mythra when it works. Otherwise, i get campy and play defensive as Pyra.

[@bokc_ellis]

Im the opposite i hated pyra when i mained pm and only liked mythra because my skill with other characters that are faster. I used moves that have the most coverage like nair and fair and up tilt. I havent mained pm in 2 years tho i only been playing wario

[@naytex]

Aegis have so much very GOOD mooves so idk wich one chose in so much situation...

[@DeinoChenus]

Sakurai just wanted his waifu in his game.

[@derpjorge]

So what I’m getting here is that Mythra is hard to play compared to Pyra

[@derpjorge]

Pyra is essentially Ike if he was a top tier, wish they kept Ike’s old nair back, he sucks without it…

[@captainmega6310]

CAUSE SHE'S BR-

[@jamesjoe1690]

Wasted dlc slot tbh

[@Lunahazel-n8n]

Mythra can kill btw >:(