Xiangyang - Ancient Battleground Between Northern and Southern China

Xiangyang, now a moderate-sized city in Hubei Province, has traditionally been one of the most strategically important cities in Chinese history.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:35: General Geography of Xiangyang
06:20: Early History (Zhou Dynasty)
11:18: Increasing Significance (Three Kingdoms Period)
19:14 Early Medieval Centuries of Division
25:36 Tang and Song Dynasties
30:30 Song-Mongol Wars
32:55 Siege of Xiangyang and Fancheng
38:13 Later History
Comments/Corrections:
- The early history maps all show a reservoir south of the Huai River known in ancient times as the "Quebei" (芍陂) which date to the 500s BC at the earliest, and so should not have been in these maps.
References:
Traditional Chinese sources:
Zizhi Tongjian (资治通鉴), Records of the Three Kingdoms (三国志), Xu Zizhi Tongjian (续资治通鉴), New Yuan History (新元史), Dushi Fangyu Jiyao (读史方舆纪要)
Modern books:
Rao, Shengwen (饶胜文). 布局天下:中国古代军事地理大势. 中国人民解放军出版社. 2020.
Song, Jie (宋杰). 中国古代战争的地理枢纽. 北京科学技术出版社, 2022.
Yu,Yunguo (虞云国). 黎东方讲史之续: 细说宋朝. 上海人民出版社, 2019.
Some additional sources:
Discussion of the "Muslim Artillery" (counterweight trebuchet)
马建春.蒙元時期“回回炮”的東傳及作用. 西北民族研究； 1996.
Google Arts and Culture: Tomb of Marquis Yi of Zeng:
artsandculture.google.com/sto...
Blog post discussing how Xiangyang got its name:
Sohu, September 9, 2023: 襄阳起名字的由来和历史,襄阳取名专家哪家专业
www.sohu.com/a/717184208_1216...
Grain shipments through Xiangyang: dfz.shaanxi.gov.cn/sqzlk/xbsxs...
Name change of Xiangyang/Xiangfan:
“襄阳”，终于找回来的名字
www.xinhuanet.com/politics/201...
Xiangyang moat:
中国最宽的护城河襄阳城护城河
www.hubei.gov.cn/2015change/2...
Maps were modified from the maps at maps-for-free.com/ by ©OpenStreetMap www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
Based on The Historical Atlas of China by Tan Qixiang (谭其骧)
Image Credits (unless otherwise noted): Wikimedia Commons

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thank you all for your patience in waiting for this video, and for your support as always. Things have been busier than usual lately, especially during the holiday season, although I am happy to be back on track with this channel. Writing and producing this video has also required far more time than expected given the very complex history and geography of the region as well as the large number of maps and figures needed. And as usual, your feedback to the video are greatly appreciated 😊

[@onthihocky5666]

Welcome back! A little worried about the long hiatus.

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[@rianfarisa]

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I cannot say enough how appreciative I am that you, a fellow Chinese, is doing such Chinese history videos--but in English. It's the best of both worlds--global reach, but perfect Chinese pronunciation that finally brings the music of our language into an English narration.

[@cmaven4762]

As an English speaking person who is learning Chinese, I genuinely appreciate the accurate pronunciation of names and places that I can emulate.

[@Kriophoros]

IDK IMO correct pronounciation is less important than consistent accent. StrategyStuff is another KZbin channel that tries to pronounce the Chinese names correctly, but he also speaks English very well, so it's really hard to listen to him on the side because his tone, inflection and even speed keeps changing. Of course it's just my experience, but I think it's not unique among non-Chinese speakers. Also don't get me wrong, his channel is phenomenal too, but I prefer GateOfKilikien more.

[@cmaven4762]

@@Kriophoros To me perfect pronunciation also has the advantage of adding to the ethos of the speaker. It's not always a true measure, but I assume a high correlation between accurate pronunciation and care with / accuracy of the related data. Thanks for the name drop, BTW... I'll check out that other channel.

[@sneakyviewing4391]

@@cmaven4762 I agree with you and OP. Chinese language just doesn't mesh very well with the Latin alphabet. It's damn near impossible to figure out how to correctly pronounce so many Chinese words because it's anything but intuitive when it's written in Latin/English. For me it's just nice to simply have an example of how it should sound as well as the tangents this creator goes on to explain the meanings of certain words and concepts is something most presenters will forgo....now if creators on Western history would do this for Latin pronunciations that would be awesome since just about everyone mispronounces ancient Latin. A common example is like Caesar vs Kaiser when the later is actually closer to how they would have said it, meanwhile anyone with an understanding of a Romance language just entirely mispronounces it. I bring up that specific example because this creator's channel is doing exactly that. They swapped out C in favor of K 👍

[@vlachlemnmichail]

I love this type of physical map you use for these videos. It looks immensely simpler than the chaotic mess one can see of China from the satellite in google earth. It depicts very clearly the roughness of the terrain, which is extremely important when talking about trade routes and war strategies

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[@mdu02]

Google Earth has a terrain view available now. Kinda fun to look at regions of the earth and predict where the military chokepoints and hubs will be.

[@Tinil0]

Yes, this! 100x! I feel so much better able to connect with all this history thanks to these physical maps. It makes me wonder why it isn't used more often because it is INCREDIBLE. You never understand politics so well as seeing it played out on a physical map, where suddenly so much becomes obvious that you never would've realized.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Yes definitely, I (obviously) am a huge fan of topographic maps, as like you guys said they convey so much more relevant information. On a slightly tangential note I also highly recommend a globe that lets you rotate the Southern Hemisphere up. Our perspectives can change so much when we can see clearly the vast distances and scale between locations in the Southern Hemisphere.

[@hieuvu8895]

@@gatesofkilikien where do you get these topology maps from?

[@spacebunny4335]

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[@CMitchell808]

@@aortaiCoolHistoryBros comes to mind.

[@DarkwarriorJ]

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[@yeeyee5057]

Occasionally Serious Trivia makes Chinese history videos too, though he makes more in depth lore on 3kingdoms

[@DJProfessorL]

Nobody else on history KZbin does geographic analysis like you! Your content is one-of-a-kind and we all appreciate it!

[@jamesdakrn]

The Southern Dynasties really showed the importance of Xiangyang, especially when you can reinforce Jiankang/Nanjing w/ the rivers and vice versa. Especially as northern armies tended to have much more cavalry, controlling the rivers made their advantages moot. Feel like Wu from the Three Kingdoms Era showed the limits of a southern regime who did not have Xiangyang, as they had no other way to go north but thru either Xiangyang or thru Hefei and they failed miserably. The Southern Dynasties after the Western Jin fell only after 30 years after unification tended to control Xiangyang & the rest of Jingzhou & the borders tended to be around the river Huai & Han, not the Yangtze, providing more strategic depth for the southern dynasties like you showed in the video.

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

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[@Android11001]

Phenomenal video. Please do a video on Luoyang too, like your two-video series on Chang'an. Luoyang certainly deserves that honor.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks and yes absolutely. There's a few other videos that's taking precedence over the Luoyang video right now, but like with Chang'an it is a must-do video.

[@prasanth2601]

Interesting! Can you explain the historical importance of Peking too. Although it served as capital of 5 major dynasties (in which 4 of them were during non-Han periods), it's role is limited to a mere garrison city during Han,Tang dynasties.

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

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[@johnkylevarley6998]

As a history buff, there is no other resource like this available in English. Most Chinese history channels just cruise through the politics with random kings and generals sprinkled in. This geographical, cultural, and political hybrid is exactly what I've been looking for. Thanks so much. Please keep doing it.

[@philsoro491]

Really enjoy these uploads. Your analysis/coverage of Chinese history is so good. China has such a turbulent history. So many wars and battles. It's interesting

[@alexng704]

It's very rare to find any good videos on ancient/classical Chinese history on any specific topic. No only have you presented a great deal of information on an interesting topic, I simply love the approach you take in making these videos by researching the geography, historical facts, and contemporary social contexts. No cheesy oriental animation and music. No glorified Chinese drama footage. No bull. Just. Good. Stuff.

[@ManhHungPham3003]

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[@fhw4732]

Follower from Hong Kong. I wish our school taught Chinese history in this way. Very interesting, keep up the great work!

[@akaisamurai]

A amazing series of videos. I never got to see the history of China other than those of the major dynasties in any detail and you outdid yourself to fill that gap. Thumbs up and thank you for all the hard work.

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For someone who is trying to get a deeper understanding of China, this has been a godsend. There are very few comparable resources like this that can explain this in a intuitive way. I'm hoping later on you'll be able to do the Nationalist to Communist transition in the 20th century.

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[@Nick-hi9gx]

I made a mod for a game, Oriental Empires, taking someone else's map and making it more correct (without getting into extreme detail like some other maps). It taught me two things; the incredibly importance of Jing province, particularly the north of it around Xiangyang, and the other north/south corridor for trade and travel, over where the Huai meets the Yangtze through the series of small rivers, lakes and canals, essentially modern Huaian to Yangzhou. And although that region is pretty flat and easily traveled now, in ancient times it was a lot of broken, marshy ground and forests. These two regions are the only ones that posed a threat to the Northern and Central Plain kingdoms, under the Chu, Wu and Yue. And it was their control of Chinas greatest river, and the trade networks that were based around it, which allowed them to compete with the northern powers. And that honestly stayed true pretty much until the Yuan.

[@weinhold0204]

Great vid, thank you! Especially appreciate the pronunciation of Chinese place names and persons. Subscribed!

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[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

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[@cmaven4762]

Another excellent video. In telling Xiangyang's story you clarified some key aspects of the relationship between north and south China.

[@marshmilo4588]

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[@Discotekh_Dynasty]

The relief map helps me visualise Chinese geography so much easier. Thank you mate 🫡

[@ehgolden6297]

Im following your channel with great interest, you seem to keep improving too. Big thanks for making content to those of us fascinated by chinese history !

[@user-rh1wx2og4j]

Excellent video. Read Three Kingdoms countless of times in school more than two decades ago and Xiangyang was so prominent.

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[@RuthlessTragedy]

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[@esbendit]

The fact that the southern Song held for 4 decades against the Mongols at their height is seriously impressive.

[@DescendantofYellowEmperor]

Song was definitely the weakest dynasty in Chinese history...because Han destroyed the Hun empire, the Tang destroyed Turk Empire and Ming destroyed the Mongol Empire

[@sneckotheveggieavenger9380]

​@@DescendantofYellowEmperorIt's not weakest but rather nomadic military tradition combining with Chinese industry. The Mongol had already conquered Jin with the help of Song and that is what boosted their capacity to wage war against Song

[@sneckotheveggieavenger9380]

Same with Ming's downfall. They held the Manchu off while struggling with a rebellion until one of the generals defected and helped the Manchu take northern China

[@DescendantofYellowEmperor]

@@sneckotheveggieavenger9380 if you know what Han dynasty, Tang dynasty or Ming dynasty did...you will understand...song dynasty was terrible in respect of military activity despite it was amazing in respect of economy

[@sneckotheveggieavenger9380]

@@DescendantofYellowEmperor I mean relatively yes

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[@galacticsurf979]

Thanks for helping to educate me on Chinese history!! May want to plan a trip to China to tour historical places, will add Xiangyang to the list of places I'm going to visit!

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[@jihadijohn9408]

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[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, appreciate again all the support! I've been experimenting with different speaking speeds and this current rate seems to be a good sweet spot. I usually watch videos at 1.5-2x speed too (unless it's something like sports highlights) so connect with what you say by that too.

[@ThatOneGuy1904]

Your videos are fantastic! They've really helped me expand my knowledge of Chinese History beyond my one course in college(combined with Japanese and Korean history). It's simple, but I love your use of maps. In particular, I enjoyed the section about the siege of Xiangyang and Fancheng. Sounded like a rather interesting siege, wonder if there is enough information on it to make a longer video on the topic. Similar of SandRhoman's videos on sieges.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Glad you like them! My goal is to eventually make a full series on medieval Chinese history, and once I get to this time period I'll probably do a whole video on the Mongol conquest of Song.

[@vaiyt]

Xiangyang and the Jiamghan plain seem to have played a role very similar to Gifu in Japan, a vital crossroads that allowed whoever controlled it the flexibility to launch attacks towards both ends of the country.

[@EresirThe1st]

Amazing work presenting this history. The photo of the moat does a great job showing how difficult it must have been to assault this place.

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I actually agree with you

[@sawdustconsumer]

Thank you, I am American and have been trying to learn Chinese geography and history recently as I am Chinese, and finding your channel has helped so much ❤

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I love your videos!

[@senecavermeulen8110]

this is awesome. i’m usually pretty good with geography, but i think this is the video that will make the difference between the yellow and yangtze rivers complete for me

[@GrassCandle]

Awesome. I really appreciate your historical geographical interpretation of Chinese history. Lots of my confusion left from textbook were answered. 不揣冒昧，I wonder if you could make a video about the origin of modern Chinese province(行省制，不是道或州). I once heard that province in Yuan dynasty was established on the premise that any potential Han rebellion against Mongolian ruler cannot spread easily, therefore the provincial borders were intentionally demarcated to not represent geographical or cultural division. It seems to make sense, but I never heard of similar explanation before. Anyway, keep on making more vids like this. Hope you get 100k subs in no time!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks for the support and feedback. The provincial boundaries is a topic that want to talk about eventually - I just need to figure out how to incorporate it into a longer video on broader topics. My "Intro to Historical Chinese Geography" video is a remake of the very first video on this channel, which I subsequently made private but included the link in the video description. I only remade the first half of that video, and the second half I briefly talk about the topics you brought up. Here's the link to the video, although be warned the sound quality is atrocious, which is why I remade it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZKln3egh7Kjf9E&ab_channel=GatesOfKilikien

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[@tomspencer1364]

Your presentations are high art. Good maps are essential for understand various parts of history, but most texts fail in that regard.

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[@ahumpierrogue137]

Time for another episode of "man I wish Total War Three Kingdoms properly captured the strategic geography of china". Really though, great to see another video! The channel gave me a good push to buy some books about the history of china myself.

[@MenwithHill]

Thanks for another excellent lecture. I'm particularly fond of the history of these borderlands - like with your video on Xuzhou - their evolving status is very indicative of how power shifted over time around the land.

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Hey! I just want to say I absolutely love your videos. I was also wondering where you got your map from? It would be really nice to have a world map like that to study historical global geopolitics

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[@waynedawson8833]

Nice video! I am curious about the part at 41:30 where you said the North-South regionalism became less of an issue because the fortunes of both sides became more tightly intertwined and it would be nice if you could elaborate on that?

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[@zhu_zi4533]

On the one hand, this is because China has not experienced a long-term north-south division during this period. On the other hand, railways, highways, and the Internet have made previously insurmountable communication the norm.

[@zhu_zi4533]

I seem to have heard that until 1980+, it was still not easy to eat rice in Northern China. and noodles, steamed buns, pancakes were still the absolute staple foods.

[@Xind0898]

good video

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[@saltA-saurus]

Great video, always glad to see a new video from this channel. I love the 3K era so I want to add more details on the siege of Fan. When Guan Yu reached the twin cities, he didn't wholly bypass Xiangyang, he besieged it simultaneously with Fan. Wei officer Lu Chang defended Xiangyang. Xiangyang and Fan was likely the last line of defense before Guan Yu gained access to the central plains, threatening Xu and Luoyang. Cao Cao was in a dire situation because Yu Jin and Pang De's armies was demolished and no large army was ready to march to rescue Fan. There were also various peasant rebellions, mutinies, and betrayals, such as Inspector of Jing Province Hu Xiu and Administrator of Nanxiang Commandery Fu Fang going over to Guan Yu's side. Cao Cao personally went to Mobei and scrambled together any relief forces he could get. Among them, even Zhang Liao was called upon all the way from Hefei, although he arrived after the battle was concluded. Guan Yu was defeated on the field from Xu Huang's army and he fled. I think it's likely that reports came from the south that Wu had invaded and hurt his army's morale, but nevertheless Fan and Xiangyang were rescued by a hair.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks for providing the additional context. I remember when I used to read the Romance of the Three Kingdoms I thought Cao Cao seemed just a tad bit overreacting when Guan Yu hadn't even captured Xiangyang and Fancheng yet, let alone get close to Xu and Luoyang, but the bigger context like you've outlined, and the fact that Liu Bei had just captured Hanzhong and Guanzhong could have potentially been next, and Cao Cao's failing health/potential disputes among his heirs all seem to have made Cao Cao's position surprisingly precarious. I'm planning to rewrite my videos on the fall of the Eastern Han Dynasty/Three Kingdoms soon since it'd be nice to have a whole decently detailed series on medieval Chinese history from the fall of the Han Dynasty to the early Ming Dynasty. I'll try to incorporate some of these broader perspectives into the narrative.

[@saltA-saurus]

@@gatesofkilikien Yeah, when I first read the history even I didn't fully understand the great threat Guan Yu posed. But exactly as you say, the continued threat of Liu Bei at Hanzhong, his inheritance, and all these other factors make Cao Cao's position seem extremely fragile. Thanks for the reply, I look forward to your future work! Seeing things in a wider context sounds great (a lot of work though), good luck!

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks, appreciate it! @@saltA-saurus

[@josifstalin4372]

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[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

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[@laturnich9507]

Always great to see another video from you! One thing I've been wondering about is, if historically "Southern China" referred primarily to the Yangtze region, what does that make places like Guangdong or Yunnan? Were places like that in the far south even considered part of China proper at the time?

[@gatesofkilikien]

Appreciate all the support as usual! Those other regions would still be considered southern China, they were just very sparsely populated and, until the Song Dynasty at the earliest, don't feature much in the geopolitical discussion because they were so remote and their populations/economies so small. Guangdong really didn't start playing a big role in Chinese history until the Ming and Qing Dynasties, and even then was still quite peripheral politically given how far it was from the rest of China. Yunnan was an independent kingdom for much of the Tang and Song Dynasties (ironically including when northern Vietnam was part of the Tang Dynasty), and even after its conquest by the Ming Dynasty in the late 1300s has had considerable indigenous influences to this day.

[@laturnich9507]

@@gatesofkilikienThat makes sense. Since you mentioned it, in the periods when Northern Vietnam was ruled by Chinese dynasties was it administered differently than other provinces or would for example the Han or the Tang have considered the region equally as Chinese as those neighboring regions?

[@gatesofkilikien]

@@laturnich9507 Pretty much the latter, like you suggested. During dynasties like the Han and Tang northern Vietnam was usually governed under the same province and commandery/prefecture system as the rest of China. Northern Vietnam was also fairly wealthy and densely populated compared to the surrounding regions, including many parts that are still part of China, and as such was a relatively prized part of the far southern territories too.

[@waiphyohain]

Bai Qi, Cao Cao etc has read background whild liu bei has blue. You are good :P

[@shinsenshogun900]

A game character of mine had once fought under Sun Jian as an adjutant, and had sometimes discovered the lost Jade Seal in a well in Luoyang. This warrior would, having rose up the ranks from taking on Yellow Turbans in Changshe, Yingchuan, also would take part in battles, duels, and skirmishes all over Jingzhou, from the glens of Bowangpo, to the flooded streets, torn walls, and drawbridges of Xiangfan, the roasted vessels and shores of the Red Cliffs, the crossroads of Yangzhou, and the swamps of Yunmeng. I sure am glad to have enjoyed the game Tiger Knights, having eventually learned where and what these places are in the long span of Chinese history, especially in the endless conflicts of the century long Three Kingdoms. These series about historic cities and their importance in regional geography and military histories are the grandest videos to always await and have fun to yearn more of learning their origins and outcomes!

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

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[@MrDungbomb]

Finally!!! 🎉🎉🎉

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[@MrDungbomb]

I was look at the home page 3 days ago and watching the older videos. Lucky me that a new video is finally here! @@user-gu8qi4me8x

[@DohuuVi]

Prior to watching this video, I always thought the great Mongol general Mongke died at the Xiang Yang battle but he actually died on the other side of the mountain ranges. Thank you for your clarification.

[@dafuqmr13]

can you do the geography of Warring States period next? i often watch, read about all these dynasties manuvering through passes, mountains, rivers, but i have no visual imagination of it, for example they often mention Hangu Pass.

[@tomspencer1364]

Maybe I"m wrong, but he went in into that in fair detail in the Chang'an videos.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Yes, I did talk about Hangu Pass during the Warring States in the Chang'an part 1 video, although that video is specifically about the history/geography of the Wei River Valley and not so much the Warring States as a whole. I'm starting to write the drafts for overview videos on the Spring and Autumn and the Warring States period, although these two videos will likely take some complete to complete since I'm still gathering sources, and there's other projects I plan to finish first. With both the S&A and the Warring States there's a lot of messy geopolitics and gaps in historiography that make grasping the big picture (as opposed to just knowing the individual stories) quite challenging, so it'll take some time for me to organize the narrative into something coherent.

[@dafuqmr13]

@@gatesofkilikienoh thank you, im new to this channel, in fact this video is the first, im gonna watch that one then, briliant video

[@cmaven4762]

​@@dafuqmr13you will probably end up watching everything... Lol... They are all high quality and worth watching.

[@boscojwho]

And on this day, the Song Emperor stood up and decreed to his people...YOLO! Jokes aside, great to see content that doesn't fall into the typical trap of Chinese dynastic historiography (you mean China wasn't ALWAYS one geopolitical entity like some politicians claim?! *gasp*)...these videos are a good way to learn about historical Chinese geopolitics, as one would European geopolitics. The Xiangyang chokepoint almost reminds me of how Belgium served a similar role in both World Wars in Europe. Kudos for mentioning how the Chu State was a bit of an oddity, considering how they had a different language/culture/customs and were considered "barbarians". A video about why the Yangtze River basin lagged behind in population growth and overall development could be interesting, given that the Central Plains is much further north and in a colder climate region...

[@jemleye]

Hey, could you add tonal markers to the latinizations of place names? I'm learning Chinese, even tho very slowly, and it would help a ton with getting a sense of pronunciation for places!

[@comradeofthebalance3147]

…It is always shown though? What do you mean by that? EDIT: Apologies. I didn’t see your ‘tonal markets’ part of your comment. Tunnel vision on my part

[@jemleye]

@@comradeofthebalance3147 No worries!

[@cmaven4762]

I'm just imitating his pronunciation of the names and places.

[@gatesofkilikien]

Thanks for the suggestion. This is something that has been brought up before, and it's something I've been thinking about how to do but not sure how to do so in a way that's aesthetically pleasing and doesn't make the slides too cluttered. The latinizations are technically supposed to be the English proper nouns of the Chinese place names, so it'd look very funky to have the tonal markings which aren't included in English.

[@jemleye]

@@gatesofkilikien Thank you for replying! You do already often do two names for places, the current and the time period accurate. It's not the perfect option, but why not leave the current names as is, as they're the most often referenced ones in current English usage and add diacritics to the original ones? Personally I do not think it would be too cluttery if all the names had diacritics, coming from a native language with some diacritics myself :D Thanks for considering anyways!

[@haraldsigurdsson1232]

counterweight trebuchet is an european invention i think. muslims learned it from european crusaders who then gave it to the mongols. great video btw i love mongol/east asian history👍and subscribed

[@venanziadorromatagni1641]

I cannot thank you enough for those videos. So much of Chinese history, kingdoms and battles is just words flying by if not underpinned by a strong geographical narrative. And the embarrassing truth is that most people in Europe or the US couldn’t pin even 10 important Chinese cities on a blind map to save their lives.

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

I actually genuinely agree with you

[@huatlam8752]

Gou Jing would approved of this content. 😂 Jin Yong really know his geography when writing The Condor Hero!

[@gatesofkilikien]

I wanted to reference his novel in this video, but since I've never actually read them nor watched the TV series anything I write about this topic would be just from Wikipedia 😂, so I held off.

[@chuekong9331]

Can you do a video about Miao/hmong people

[@user-nw2pn4ld7w]

i am very proud to be a xiangyanger，we have very long history

[@armmine5316]

Xiangyang makes Liu Biao's faction my favorite in the Three Kingdoms game.

[@massoluk]

As a Jin Yong fan, this episode is for me

[@maytan1622]

Thanks for your video but please let us know why the Mongols couldnt contain China as long as the Manchu when they came in through Shan Hai Guan? Not that I wish them to control China longer.

[@saddd8821]

the gigachad is back

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

I actually genuinely agree with you

[@nhanbui2707]

30:44 the Song dynasty be like: LEEROYYYYY JENKINSSSSS

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

I actually genuinely agree with you

[@polarhunter]

love it!

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

I actually genuinely agree with you

[@coorenshima3912]

The return of the king!!!

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

I actually genuinely agree with you

[@mustafacalkap26]

It's like your crush is texting. So excited

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

I actually genuinely agree with you

[@liuxaun8385]

Very cool. Didn't know running up to end of the Han and three kingdoms there was a southern population boom.

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

I actually genuinely agree with you

[@shinsenshogun900]

This makes sense given that the Southlands are being developed and secured, often at the price of local blood, strategic infrastructure, periodic mismanagement, and conflict

[@tomspencer1364]

Getting out of the the Central Plains during that era was probably a good idea.

[@comradeofthebalance3147]

Same. I always casually read that it was ‘prosperous’ and strategic, but never knew the details

[@ssrbgangimaribotan6thofthe12]

There is 1 small mistake in the three kingdom period, the one that threatened Liu Biao from the east is Sun Jian not Sun Quan, he is not adult yet by this time period and Sun Jian died under Liu Biao's ambush. Sun Quan is Sun Jian's youngest son, otherwise this is a very great and educational history lesson on Xiangyang!

[@gatesofkilikien]

So this is one of those topics that the Romance of the Three Kingdoms deviates from history and makes things very confusing. The historical Sun Jian was an ally/subordinate of Yuan Shu, who controlled Nanyang Commandery and sent Sun Jian southward to attack Liu Biao at Xiangyang, where Sun Jian was ambushed and killed. Yuan Shu later relocated eastward from Nanyang to Shouchun. RoTK deviates from recorded history in much of this. The novel aligns much more with actual history in the subsequently events: Sun Ce occupied much of the Yangtze River Delta with Yuan Shu's backing and then broke with Yuan Shu. After Sun Ce's assassination Sun Quan took over, and with the Yangtze River Delta more firmly under his control, then began to attack Jing Province. Sun Quan's, with the support of Gan Ning who defected to him, was able to defeat and kill Liu Biao's general Huang Zu in Jiangxia Commandery right around the time Cao Cao was beginning to also march south against Jing Province.

[@zainmudassir2964]

In April 1945 Japan captured the city in West Henan campaign which was last major Japanese Offensive in World war 2 and soon beaten back with heavy losses

[@professoul7176]

Calling chu Russia of China is pretty spot on lol

[@user-gu8qi4me8x]

I actually genuinely agree with you

[@gudgoodsteps8036]

Right as Kublai captured the city, its easily gg for Song dynasty✅

[@TTminh-wh8me]

why is salt such an important resource during a siege ?

[@cmaven4762]

It's not only an important seasoning; it's also a vital mineral for human health. Without it people are more susceptible to illness and disease.

[@alexlo7708]

The only battleground which the great Khan of Mongol Empire was perished in fight.