Game of Thrones Podcast Episode 59 - Toxic Butterflies | George VS House of the Dragon Showrunners

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

This was easily one of the most fun podcast episodes we've ever done. And this version here, on KZbin, is the edited version which does NOT include Preston's Double Down. The Patreon/KZbin Memberships version will include that, it'll be on those platforms. Preston's Double Down is available over on his channel and consists of 27 minutes of him discussing Helaena and why George was wrong in that blog post.

[@devineveraert796]

Im glad you guys had a good time. As one of the crazy LOTR fans (who has read through all of Tolkiens works multiple times and does yearly rereads of The Hobbit, LOTR, and the Silmarillion) I get how frustrating online discourse about these things can be. When it comes to Rings of Power, there’s parts of the show I absolutely love and there are parts I disagree with or just flat out dislike. But in most people’s minds that’s not possible, it’s either you’re a woke cuck who’s dancing on Tolkiens grave or a hater who wants to rip the whole thing down. There’s so little room for nuance. People don’t want to hear valid criticism and half the people complaining about lore inaccuracies haven’t read the material and have no idea what they’re talking about. Sometimes you just need to have a good bitch about the state of the fandom to relieve some stress.

[@nickkoch3467]

This was a great podcast, thoroughly enjoyed it!

[@gokbay3057]

Xiran Jay Zhao goes by they/them and not she/her btw.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

@@gokbay3057 k

[@MrIStillDontCare]

​@@gokbay3057was she on the podcast and she mislabeled herself?

[@dandyguandy]

Is not that George is fixated on small things, he used Maelor as an example of changes that seem small but ultimately have a very negative effect on the story because of butterfly effect

[@GuttedAU]

The problem with that is there is almost no butterfly effect. A character that does nothing but getting fridged was removed. You lose one horrific scene and that's it.

[@dandyguandy]

@@GuttedAU That's not true, there's several ramifications and GRRM explains it in the blogpost.

[@GuttedAU]

@@dandyguandy But it is true. The example GRRM gives is one scene and some additional motivation for a character with ample motivation. It doesn't shape the greater narrative. His complaint is akin to complaining about changing Jeyne to Talisa. It is a change but doesn't stop the Red Wedding or impact on much after and unlike GoT we actually know how the story ends we know it has no impact.

[@kpro8908]

@@dandyguandyThere are absolutely no ramifications to cutting Maelor. Everything George said in his blog post could easily be reassigned to other characters (the “valor” of the Kings Guard) or is unnecessarily redundant (Heleana doesn’t need to lose a second kid to justify her suicide, she already lost one).

[@krystalccameron7689]

@@kpro8908does she seem particularly undone by the loss of that one child? Or do you expect she’s just at the beginning stages of grief and the trauma will hit her with a delay? I don’t see how it can be a non issue to remove one of Aegon’s heirs from the show when he’s clearly too injured to have more and the whole story is about a succession crisis. Is the show doing the best job at making that clear? Unfortunately not.

[@darhaha3391]

"If you go rogue, you better win" People react positively or neutrally to good adaptation changes and react very harshly to bad ones. That's not "hypocrisy" Preston! It's a risky move and if they do it then they better as hell pull it off otherwise they deserve the shredding they get.

[@musakamara4157]

Exactly, that's not hypocrisy that's just consequences for decisions.

[@cptkirbyy2831]

Good point, they made plenty of changes in the GoT series. My favorite change is Brienne vs the Hound. If the change is handle with good care, then we wouldn’t mind it so much.

[@krystalccameron7689]

@@cptkirbyy2831love that scene! My favorite non book scene was Jori telling Arya about Wilhelm and his brother and the night prayer and his ride to the wall. Blows me away!

[@jamesmaxwell1940]

It's obvious what Preston is saying. When the showrunners make good adaptation choices, George gets the credit because it's his source material -- even when it's stuff that has nothing to do with George because the showrunners are constructing whole scenes and characters out of basically nothing. But when a choice ends up looking bad, the blame falls squarely on the showrunners -- not on George for failing to provide something good in the first place.

[@darhaha3391]

@jamesmaxwell1940 non-readers might assume everything in the show is from the books and give credit for good adaptations to George but we the readers don't. I personally prefer show Stannis to book Stannis by a factor of 10... the credit for that goes to D&D and the actor and not George. I don't get what u trying to say tbh

[@blaine.walker]

Carmine’s point about “George is on our side…he hates it too” is 🔥 I love Preston, but I think he’s being a little pedantic on this topic

[@Divine_Chareka]

There's a lot of truth in what Preston is saying though (except the Fire and Blood is nothing part, that one is the L take of the year). But he's right to look both sides of things.

[@gingeranagram2467]

Preston being pointless and pedantic? NEVER

[@ramilgarifullin3702]

I think you right that it's about choosing sides. Most people didn't even bother to read George's grievances

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

@@ramilgarifullin3702 wtf you mean? Choosing sides is a lazy ass argument when you're too busy being arrogant and pretending to be holier than thou. Preston genuinely thinks he knows better than every other person alive. He never ever concedes a point, and he never sees anyone perspectives. He has an idea, and he is stuck on that idea, forever, no matter what evidence is levied against him. The way this comes across is that he is ALWAYS looking for a fight, he is always looking to contradict everyone, it's like reading elon musk's tweets. Clearly a superiority complex. Yet I can still defend him and agree with him on many points, but the contrarianism is after so many years is finally starting to wear me off, it's exhausting and boring to sit and listen to PJ stroke his own ego in every podcast. "You must like ALL changes, or NO changes, otherwise you are A HYPOCRITE" Like what half-assed no brained low IQ bs take is that? Funnily one that he goes on to bitch about literally RIGHT after making that point. There is no ideological consistency, it is just whatever will contradict whatever comment he saw that he is furious about. Yes, people can like changes, but also hate changes. Change isn't just change, there are a ton of different types of changes. Like Matt Smith adds A TON of depth to Daemon in season 1, but then weird writing changes keep coming in, like how "daemon actually killed his wife" - which logically makes absolutely no sense in terms of the consequences or the way the story goes. Like why tf are the Royces on the Black's side? It doesn't make sense, and the writer doesn't care. He had one idea reading it, and he thought he was brilliant, despite ignoring all the text. And then people have feedback, and these showrunners ignore them, cause to them its "yes but it was MY idea, this is MY adaptation". If the writing room wrote Viserys, and George was like "that's awesome", you move on, and then in the writing room they go like "Let's make Rhaenys BURST out of the floor and stare menacingly at the greens, before leaving, not ending the war even though she easily could, because motherhood, hurrdurr lazy writing", and then George or anyone goes like "that's really dumb, let's not do that", those are ideological inconsistent? Like you HAVE to be for changes if you like some changes, or you HAVE to be against changes if you hate changes? What black and white brain-dead argument is that? This isn't hypocrisy. Viserys lacks depth in the books, and giving him depth is not "changing the story". Preston is just a contrarian. It's crazy to me that everyone read the Maelor example and their response was "THAT'S what you had a problem with???" when George CLEARLY was making an example of something small and how big that change can be made, as hinted by his whole chaos theory-"butterfly beating its wings leading to a hurricane" point. Not to mention Preston's whole argument was "you don't air your grievances in public, you go to people and talk to them", when this has been debunked ages ago and George clearly has done this, and Preston tries to dismiss it as if that wasn't a MAJOR part of his stance, and once he no longer has that box to stand on, he pretends his argument is just as sound as it ever has been, by moving the goalpost to "uhh fire and blood is shit actually, why do you care"

[@darhaha3391]

I don't agree that George criticizing GoT S8 would have been the equivalent of this criticism. Here the word is printed and published! The ink is dry... I think if he had criticized S8 he would have sounded a bit bit*hy because he had said he would give them source material but then ended up not doing so. At that point I don't think he would have been as valid in his criticism as he is now for this.

[@Liberaven]

This is a very good point that sadly won’t occur to many people

[@kpro8908]

@@LiberavenIt’s not. Fire and Blood is so vaguely written that the source material provides almost nothing but general narrative beats, and even then those beats are often so poorly thought out it makes adaptation a losing proposition at best. Maelor is wholly redundant to the plot of the story. By adapting the Rogue Prince into a broader story, the protagonists are left with nothing to do for months of narrative during several key plot developments. So sure, George gave them a book that has an ending-but it’s likely worse source material than the unpublished outlines D&D worked off of for GoT

[@emilyfrigge]

I personally feel like there might have been 2 big reasons GRRM might have gone radio silent about GoT S8 1 - There was just too much to criticize to do so without writing a small novel 2 - Criticism of how things went could potentially end up being spoilers for his future books But idk that's just some of my speculation Also, bless yall for giving more nuance to the conversation around HotD, I appreciate it so much

[@b1bbscraz3y]

Game of Thrones was the cash cow and the thing that skyrocketed his fame and fortune. the first 4 seasons were good enough to not need to criticize. then by the time it got really bad what was the point. why chime in and disrupt the increasing fame and money. and he was probably at least trying to write some Winds back then while also procrastinating by working on other stuff to capitalize off the fame of GoT like Fire and Blood

[@hydroking2969]

It was a DIFFERENT contract, George might've gotten into further legal issues with D&D then Ryan since he had less control there. We dont know what specific things will be in the contract but it's obvious the GOT contract wont be the same with the spin-off's contract and with George proving his story can create a successful IP he probably has a better (but not perfect) position in his contract that he could do something like this. George also tried to argue alot behind the scene for GOT even if he didnt do a proper blogpost, it's obvious the same issue is happening with HOTD so he just gave up trying to keep it all behind the scene. The other thing is that it's too late for him to make GOT blogpost now, the show is finished and all a blogpost will do is piss HBO off while he gets nothing in return. Atleast with HOTD's blogpost while it will still piss HBO off, it would atleast make Ryan tread carefully how he will do the future season as not to get a pissed off blogpost from George

[@gingeranagram2467]

"Future books" lol good joke

[@fayedunaway8]

I think he was stone cold about GOT because he thought it was partly his fault that D&D didn't have the source material left that they could use..

[@Domefossil]

Honestly, I think a lot of it was that he was bottling it all up inside, and he just let it all out when HOTD came out.

[@alexmars1511]

The difference is he can't criticize a unfinished novel. Fire n blood is kinda a one and done

[@johnathanoneal9]

not even kinda it's been done

[@outsidein9809]

There’s a sequel he hasn’t released yet called Blood & Fire but it’s what happens after the dance of dragons until Robert’s rebellion. But Helaenas part is well over by the end of Fire & Blood.

[@rampantrambling]

Blood and fire: am I a joke to you?

[@outsidein9809]

@@rampantrambling it’s true. Look it up

[@darksaint0124]

You know there is going to be a second volume, right?

[@IdocarebutIdont]

Wdym? HOW is the 'Helaena thing' a minor problem? George took these moments as examples for the show writers white washing the grim moments and characters of the story, which is the entire point of discussion.

[@1992zorro]

I seriously don't know how these guys have opened a ASOIAF channel without knowing anything of it

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

@@1992zorro Helaena being a minor thing is besides the point, but it is crazy how that is the hill they are dying on, when George's point is how you can make a change like that (completely unnecessary change as well) and it will make larger inconsistencies later on, and this was the mildest example he could think of. There's clearly bigger issues he's worried about, but he's focusing on a minor character instead as it is less important to the discussion of spoilers etc. Like Rhaenyra being a saint, Daemon being an abusive monster with less agency, Nettles being cut out of the story, cutting out the Bracken's and the Blackwood and leaving it all off-screen, etc. These are all very weird stupid changes, all with excuses behind them, and I can get behind making adaptation changes when needed, but at this point they're just repeating season 5 Dorne again, where the writers think they have a much better idea than what was written, just like the people who think Jon Connington and Euron should never have been introduced into the story: These people who think they're better writers than the original writer, or at least think they have better ideas.

[@TH3DUDE0075]

The Viserys stuff wasn’t really a change as much as it was an addition. There is a big difference. I do care about faithfulness. I would prefer things not be changed in core plot EVER.

[@darksaint0124]

They made a character in his 20s and old decrepit man. Normies literally call him the old king. They changed his entire character. They even did the dumb prequel thing by trying to tie him to GoT by making up a prophecy and giving him the cat's paw dagger. Why does every prequel always do this incredibly corny thing where they try to give us the origin of things we dont care about?

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

@@darksaint0124 You think that's a big change? Aging him up a bit and then having him get sick which makes him look older faster? Normies are stupid as fuck, I would never use "Normies think this" as a tent-pole argument for anything.

[@Retireddevil0]

You mentioned that the ending to GOT is likely accurate to GRRMs thinking. I think this is true BUT i think they missed WHY that ending was secretly great. Its actually a bad ending for humanity. The kingship now resides inside of a transferable omnipotent alien hive mind that can begin training the next generation and enslave humanity to its will. Its actually a GRRM horror story.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

yeeeeesssssirrrrrr

[@krystalccameron7689]

Exactly!! He set it up so perfectly with the ‘abomination’ in the 6-skins prologue. Bran is just there to get his body stolen by the last greenseer as a replacement for the body he’d previously stolen from Blooraven.

[@DefaultName-du3kr]

Preston not understanding Halaena and doubling down is insane. I'll never take that man seriously again.

[@picklejarmonsterfanboy9367]

they have channels based on a book series that doesn't have anything new published in 13 years. obsessively going over every word is the only thing to do

[@GodKingReiss]

What’s the correct understanding of Helaena?

[@DefaultName-du3kr]

@GodKingReiss Having to choose a son and hear "your mother wants you dead" is important for her not for her 2 year old son. Having that younger son dying in brutal fashion makes those words hurt more, and she jumps. As of now in HOTD, that cannot happen so it might as well be fanfic, like GoT.

[@Divine_Chareka]

​@@DefaultName-du3krwell... Mushroom, Orwyle and Eustace weren't in the room when it happened. Just saying 😌

[@DefaultName-du3kr]

@@Divine_Chareka They were not, but one of them tells it as it is, whether it be hearsay is up for debate but George knows and he told Ryan.

[@Walkth15way]

I'd argue that Rhaenyra, Alicent and Daemon aren't the main characters in the book, its more of an ensemble cast. The show had to expand and spend more time on the Green and Black kids. The book does this it spends time on Jace.

[@Gary915]

Yep, I was disappointed how little they gave Jace to do in season 2

[@krystalccameron7689]

Exactly so, otherwise, we won’t care when the inevitable happens.

[@Nyingmaba]

While preston did criticize the season, i think both of you went a little easy on the white washing of rhae rhae and the character assassination of alicent. I understand why - the very topic can stoke hate. But, had you guys spoken about it more, i think people would have been less upset with the last video. Edit: i also wish you guys wouldve discussed xirans post more - i still dont know what preston thinks about George caring about more than maelor. But i appreciate you bringing it up, carmine!

[@EzraFieldsofStrawberry]

Funny because Preston's opinion was that they tried to make them both white washed and ended up making them both look horrible.

[@Nyingmaba]

​@@EzraFieldsofStrawberryoh for sure, and thats definitely true. But if you go back and watch those episodes, there relatively a shorter amount of discussion on that topic

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

"i think both of you went a little easy on the white washing of rhae rhae and the character assassination of alicent" Then you did not watch any of my later reviews on the season. This is, again, stuff that I truly dislike in the comment section when y'all spout stuff that is just fundamentally untrue while the evidence is in your face.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

@@beige_projection I called the hate for the show weird because it is *because* people were hating on it as early as episode 2 and that is very weird

[@Nyingmaba]

@@OfficialRedTeamReview oh no offense meant, I just went looking for y'all's opinion and found it relatively short. My bad if I missed it

[@prolastmedia6171]

14:53 "When the change is good everyone is fine with it, but when its bad..." Yea thats usually how it works, when you do your job well no one complains but when you mess up, there are consequences. I think thats exactly what people have been complaining about - if you cant make it better, dont change it. Like George was more than man enough to praise the writers for the changes they made to Viscerys I, but on that same token he, and the fans, have the right to criticize when the writers/execs make bad changes, ESPECIALLY when the writers/execs had the author of the source material telling them directly that those changes would degrade the material. No one (with a brain) has ever said that an adaptation should have absolutely no changes to the source because that is simply impossible by the very nature of what it means to adapt something - we have always maintained that the adaptation team should just do their best to only make necessary changes that will enhance the story for whatever medium the story is being adapted into.

[@dann4044]

I cringe every time LOTR is used as an example of a faithful adaptation. It's one of the best movie trilogies ever, but it loses so much of what makes the books a classic.

[@devineveraert796]

Agreed. Their takes on the books were awful, I almost stopped listening but I managed to power through.

[@oculargoose7361]

So many people say this, and don't give any details. I just don't see how the movies lose "so much" of what makes the books great.

[@devineveraert796]

@@oculargoose7361 The poetry and songs, Farmer Maggit, Tom and Goldberry, The Old Forest, The Barrow Downs, Fatty Bolger, Gildor, Glorfindel, movie Elrond gets the wise and noble part down but is missing his kindness, completely changing Aragorn character, completely changing Theoden and Faramir, Frodo ditching Sam, cutting the scouring of the Shire, far fewer refrences and connections to the overarching mythology and story of Arda. I can keep going if you want, or dive into deeper details on any of the points, but I think this is enough to get the point across.

[@oculargoose7361]

@@devineveraert796 Oh of course, Fatty Bolger is what made the book a classic. Come on, that list is silly.

[@nickm8425]

Like i said, his Heleana complaints are clearly based off conversations, not textual materials

[@King_Mac80]

Tbf I think it's possible he stayed quiet about the ending of GOT because it was his first rodeo. Now, after years of backlash to the ending of GOT, he feels the need to try and fix HOTD before it suffers the same fate.

[@gatsu718]

The blog post was clearly just an example of the Butterfly effect from a subtle change, I'm sure he has much bigger issues with the Adaptation but that wasn't RR Martins intention.

[@lilren2021]

I honestly agree with you guys to a point. There’s nothing wrong with adaptation in and of itself. If it were faithful to the book 100% of the time, it wouldn’t be good. If it’s good, it’s good. If it’s bad, it’s bad. Just because you think the criticism of the missing Maelor is petty doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t read it that way. Sure, you can’t get attached to these characters but to me it lessens the emotional impact of the story about violence begetting violence and innocent people getting hurt when you’re removing the grisly death of a 2 year old child. It removes the emotional impact of a woman watching the beheading of her 1 child and then getting psychologically tortured the rest of her life by the sight of the other one. I don’t need to have tons of development to feel empathy for these characters, and it’s honestly a little worrisome that some of yall do.

[@alinaCatwatcher]

Movie and Series adaptations have never made me dislike the original material. Therefore these authors have nothing to worry about when it comes to legacy.

[@giofugazz]

Im actually amazed Preston is so braindead to the point of saying the reason this season was boring bc of the source material... Like whose idea was to make alicent a standalone main character bro

[@harsh_1910]

You know dance is made from little short stories like one of them was called the princess and the queen lol

[@Bodharas]

My brain hurts from trying to read this comment, and the fact 21 other dumbasses liked it is even more alarming.

[@giofugazz]

@@Bodharas 23

[@1992zorro]

Amazed? Is this the first time listening to this simpleton?

[@giofugazz]

@@1992zorro I've seen his videos bf but never in a podcast setting where he can freely express his stupidity lol

[@ncblock87]

10:16 yeah, already lost interest. Fire & Blood is great, and I won't hear anything to the contrary. He's just salty that Winds still hasn't come out.

[@MrRrusiii]

Yeah, people need to stop tearing F&B down in order to cope with HotD being shit

[@arvaakuka8568]

​@@MrRrusiiiEverything needs to always be a cope, it's not like both of those things can he mediocre

[@harsh_1910]

Why did you start watching this video lol, preston has been saying it since f&b came out why are you still watching him like 6 years later

[@prolastmedia6171]

​@@harsh_1910 Not everyone has a detailed record of everything these guys have ever said lol

[@ncblock87]

@@harsh_1910 Why are you assuming I've been listening to every word this guy has spoken for X amount of years? lmao

[@JonathanVegaa]

But there’s also things like Rhaneyras sons being bastards is actually ambiguous in the books considering “Rhaneys” had the Baratheon black hair and it wasn’t just Obvious that they were bastards

[@krystalccameron7689]

Thank you! I’ve been saying this! Rhaneys real hair colour is Baratheon black.

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

The whole making Rhaenyra's kids CLEARLY bastards just undermines the whole world of Westeros. Like we are supposed to believe these guys mock and hate Jon as much as they do, only for it to be something nobody actually cares about beyond propaganda? Like sure, I get it, they REALLY wanted black characters in there, but then they cut Nettles, who actually is a black character. It's just bizarre. It's like they went like "well, we already have black dragonriders, don't need nettles," as if her skin color was all she was. It's this whole neo-liberal idea of how to deal with racism. Like, don't actually care about it, just pretend you do and then move on.

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

I appreciate Carmine trying to push against Preston's pathological demand avoidance and explain it to him, but you're too charitable to this perpetual contrarian

[@j946atFIVEFOUR88AA]

HBO fumbled the later seasons of GOT so they brought GRRM back into the fold for HotD season 1. Season 1 did great so HBO regained the ego and started blowing off GRRM's suggestions and as a result we got the disaster of Season 2. Simple as.

[@kpro8908]

Well no, because tge problems with Season 2 have nothing to do with what George wrote about. The issue wasn’t HotD’s adherence to story beats and plot points, or even changes to the source material, but rather its specific production choices and narrative shortcomings (many caused by George’s unusually underwhelming source material). Blood and Cheese wasn’t bad because it was missing the goofy Sophie’s Choose parody, it was bad because it showed us the vantage of the perpetrators rather than the victims. Maelor should have been cut, and George’s unusual emphasis on him suggests he’s more upset at the change for its own sake than the narrative value to the story. George didn’t criticize points that actually made the show bad, and ignored how his writing forced the showrunners to come up with things for the real protagonists to do.

[@talisa222]

Anyone who watches anime knows that bad adaptations of manga are disappointing but in the end they just push more people towards the source material. So at least I agree with Preston's point on bad adaptations not ruining anyone's legacy. Bad adaptations eventually get forgotten about soon enough, it's the source material that endures.

[@griffiththechad9483]

I can kind of agree to this. It’s not an Anime but the Netflix Witcher despite all its flaws hasn’t tarnished the Witcher series as a whole for me. The books and games will always be amazing in my eyes.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

Promised Neverland

[@iconoclast6555]

Speaking of anime. If you've watched or read Oshi No Ko, there is a whole episode or two in Season 1 featuring a bad adaptation from the manga. It also showed the manga author being heartbroken that her manga received a bad adaptation. And since obviously, Oshi No Ko is from another manga author, I think it reflects the reality that book or comic authors, whether their original work benefits from bad adaptation or not, will not feel good about it. And I think most of the time, their work don't benefit from a bad adaptation unlike what you theorized. So I think George is very justified to feel bad about his work receiving a bad adaptation. I don't think we should be belittling the effects of a bad adaptation on authors.

[@Domefossil]

I'm genuinely tired of them whitewashing Rhaenyra for political purposes, and I'm tired of ASOIAF youtubers pretending this isn't happening, because they too have political biases; and are often smarmy people trying to shill things like Nebula, and leech off of GRRM/carpetbag to try to make money off of his creations, becuase they can't create anything unique or interesting themselves. Everyone knows that as House of the Dragon gets worse and worse that these exact same people will pretend like it was bad the whole time and Rhaenyra was a bad character the whole time, because ideology and clout/making an easy buck off of more talented creators comes first.

[@griffiththechad9483]

I think Our Hilts Hurt is the only channel I’ve heard actually make those kind of criticisms but I think they’re joking 50% of the time.

[@duckling3615]

@@griffiththechad9483 Out Hilts Hurt's entire shtick is them being ridiculous, even when they aren't joking they are exaggerating for comedic effect. Anyone taking them seriously is missing the point. Like they purposefully miss entire plots points, I have actually once written a comment to them about Jamie and Ned mostly because I wanted to just say what happens in the book, while recognising their obvious comedy. They are nice people who know that they are talking absolute bullshit.

[@wizardsummoner9124]

Most youtubers are biased towards Rhaenyra, so they don't see what they're doing.

[@krystalccameron7689]

The cope on EFAP the other night was thick enough to gag on 🤣😹 I also noticed that they’re reviewing Rings of Power on their individual channels, but only gushing over HOD on their shared live streams 🤣😹 I’m waiting a couple years for the ‘it was bad all along’ takes 😂

[@krystalccameron7689]

Also, the wash job on Rhenyra just shows that the show runners have not effectively communicated the culture of the world. I think because their POVs are restricted. If we saw more people talking about her bastards, it’d be clearer that it had real steaks. As it is, we’re free to ascribe modern values to the world, and against that backdrop, it’s Rhenyra against the backwards patriarchy. So much was made of bastards in GOT, and we had the POV of Jon to see how differently bastards were regarded to legitimate children with the bastard being sent away because he could not inherit or be made an advantageous match for marriage…and was considered a taint on his father’s honour and an insult to the Lady of Winterfell. More scenes with minor characters from house Valerion could’ve helped. I think many discussions could’ve happened to give us great dialogue scenes that could explain to modern audiences why alicent would’ve been setting her daughter up for failure if she’d agreed to marry her off to an illegitimate heir. It’s one thing that Jace’s claim came through a woman, but he’s also illegitimate. Yea, Helaena would’ve been justified in forever resenting her mum for agreeing to that. And even if Jace were crowned, the civil war would’ve come in the next generation to put alicents oldest grandsons through one of her 3 boys on the throne instead. The perspectives and the will to communicate this and surround the situation with the right amount of shame and outrage, was just not in the show.

[@barneyrubble7744]

How can a fan of the books as strong as Preston say that there is an overstated need to stick to the narrative? If you think George’s work is awesome and memorable then surely you want to see that reflected on screen

[@Jon155mt]

That’s the thing, Fire & Blood ISNT that great of a book. ASOIAF is a great story that you can definitely make that argument for, especially with how bad s7-8 were, but not this.

[@gingeranagram2467]

Because he's a dickrider

[@maxcritchley619]

Even if the books are good if they change things for the better so it works better as a TV show which needs faster pacing than a book that's what we want.

[@FencingMessiah]

He's right in that if the adaptation improved grrms work through the television medium it would be accepted by ppl even if it cut some material. I would say like what Stanley Kubrick did for the shining, but that level of craftsmanship and polish is not being applied to hotd and it wasn't even there for the original game of thrones imo

[@maxcritchley619]

@@FencingMessiah I would say it was there in the first 4 seasons but after that the changes were mostly bad

[@leomesser415]

Dude Trey what the fuck are you saying about people “somehow” feeling connected to Baelor Breakspear he literally vouches for Dunk and says he knew Ser Arlan and then is one of Dunk’s champions that’s more than enough to get attached to him I don’t think Trey has read the hedge knight

[@jimmyjamsburner6944]

I know right, my favorite character in Star Wars is Wedge Antilles

[@makimasbrat5508]

why does anyone mention season 8, as if season 7 was not bad, or 6, or 5

[@DefaultName-du3kr]

I'll die on the hill that the rot was showing as early as S4 but it had enough material to carry it.

[@Male_Ficent]

Cause season 8 was universally hatrd while the others, particularly 5&6 still got a lot of glazers in thr fandom. Though I agree they're all bad. I'd even go as far as to say seeds were already planted back in season 2.

[@ncblock87]

Season 5 and 6 were serviceable with several glaring issues, no where near the travesty that was season 7 & 8.

[@makimasbrat5508]

@@DefaultName-du3kr to me season one is the only good one, after that it's obvious they have mediocre screenwriters and maybe even directors so without George material (or with less Hollywood George material in the last two books) eveything falls apart eventually

[@Liberaven]

Season 7 was bad, but there was still the potential for a decent season 8. Season 8 was so unbelievably atrocious that it sticks in peoples minds

[@nerdypythonmedia3343]

People need to understand that Fire & Blood is not supposed to be a linear story, but a collective record of key events in Targaryen history from the view of observers. It's a very entertaining book that delves into the mysteries of the dragon kings and I'm currently reading it for the second time 😁

[@prolastmedia6171]

Yes sir, I just read it too and I loved it. I loved that it felt like reading a real historical tome

[@jeffreyjbyron]

LIKE IF YOU WANT TREY ON EVERY EPISODE

[@brigittehuber9745]

I'd rather have Trey have a weekly stream xD

[@Ollidor]

My favorite part was when they said “2 George 2 Furious”

[@Gloomlight]

My biggest issue with dragon dream Halaena is really simple. What is the avtual point of making her a dragon dreamer if nothing really matterrs anyway? Halaena's spoilers don't really give anything to the book fans who already know whats gonna happen. And ruins any suspense for normies.

[@syntychiahintsin-tee-shaks2256]

I have to give GRRM props. He gave RC credit for the changes he made to Viserys. It’s only fair that he shares his displeasure at these latest changes. Apparently he’s still being polite about it, because he purposely left out the bigger issues.

[@Bdaychick]

Preston literally heard nothing about what Carmine read about the journalist stating that George PURPOSELY chose minor issues as a warning shot to show that he was unsatisfied with season 2 as a whole…just loud and wrong smh

[@cherylbaxter8986]

I'm on George's side why didn't GRRM say anything about daemons story line an his Wierwood dreams o want to see daemon from season 1 the Rogue Prince

[@IdocarebutIdont]

How could you not be?

[@Male_Ficent]

He had another blog that did imply he had more to say about the changes they made in season 2 aside from the Maelor thing. He simply used it as an example of the butterfly effect he spoke of. So we might be getting morr, although him taking the post down may also mean this is all we're getting.

[@Berketron]

Well at least you got some good engagement from the comments sections. It is wild how personal the comment section takes Preston and Carmine’s opinions.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

true

[@coleheilgeist]

@@OfficialRedTeamReview you guys claim you are George fans, and then go and defend the showrunners who have completely butchered his story. It’s honestly disgusted my dude

[@rayu9311]

So this guys argument is just because the source material is average at the best they can make worse instead of Consulting the writer to make it better

[@prolastmedia6171]

Genius!

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

I'm 100% convinced at this point that Preston just loves to be a contrarian, and it makes him feel superior. The way he talks about other's opinions so demeaningly, as if everyone is stupid except him, is really cringe

[@Pepsiman1848]

If d&d was adapted the way George seems to want it adapted, it wouldn’t be an adaptation, they’d just be making the most expensive audiobook in history.

[@iron_captain]

When reviewing season 2 one of the biggest problems was a lack of communication within the writers room making episodes feel disconnected from each other. Now it seems that this communication problem is much bigger than we could have known. Wouldnt be suprised if there are big fights within the writers room with divergent interests. Everyone is pushing their own agenda/ideas, some on Georges side some not.

[@alexmars1511]

I don't mind George writing Westerosi literature. Let's get Maester Aemon's diary from Old Town college years lol some letters from King Egg

[@TH3DUDE0075]

Sure people might remember The Last Jedi longer than Force Awakens because it was so bad but that’s meaningless these are commercial properties and the Last Jedi cost Disney a lot of money in long term ultra loyal fans who showed up to everything, bought every bit of toys and memorabilia, etc being alienated and leaving the fandom.

[@LostinKateWinslet]

From being the substitute teacher, Trey is now operating under the Rule of Two learning from the master Preston Jacobs

[@1992zorro]

That Preston guy is really not gonna admit it he? Maybe he's just simple "Only a little"

[@lilren2021]

Preston doesn’t like F&B because it’s ambiguous. In ASOIAF you have the POV chapters where you actually know what’s going on in the story since you can get into the character’s heads, but these are the second hand accounts of events that were written years later after they actually happened. They’re written like actually pre-modern history was written, which is a cool idea. I personally like it. As readers, we’re actually playing modern historians by debating what actually happened. Preston can’t expand his mind to think that broadly, so he criticizes George for his creativity. It’s a bad look

[@prolastmedia6171]

This is exactly my feeling as well, couldn't have said it better. I love F&B for exactly this reason

[@jamesmaxwell1940]

No, F&B sucks because it's bad writing. It's not a good story on its own, it's just a bunch of extra stuff that only appeals to people who already love the core series. That is not good writing.

[@lilren2021]

@@jamesmaxwell1940 I think it’s a different kind of writing style but I personally like it.

[@TheDreamWyrm]

Anyone else much more concerned about whether or not Sunfyre is alive than whether or not Maelor exists?

[@alanpennie8013]

I think everyone knows S is alive. It's Jon Snow over again.

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

Sunfyre not being confirmed dead or alive isn't something to worry about. But stuff like Nettles being cut from the story is weirder tbh.

[@alanpennie8013]

@@7PlayingWithFire7 Yep. Nettles is genuine cause for worry, if you're into Nettles.

[@Nyingmaba]

It seems like making rhae rhae more virtuous and making alicent betray her children was done in order to make the show more socially lefty than the book. The book, and GRRM himself of course, are very socially lefty, so those changes, for those motivations, are misled. It genuinely seems like the showrunners are less nuanced and couldnt understand that the way GRRM writes women as real, and morally grey, characters isnt misogynistic or green propoganda. In sum, i think this is what saying the show is "woke" is getting at, and i think theres some substance there. Its sorta like the difference between listening to a postmodern professor talk about feminism (grrm in this case) vs listening to a radicalized 16 yr old repeating unnuanced and mimetically picked up internet takes (the showrunners, in this case)

[@hopedixon2133]

Dude, I am just so jealous of Preston's ability to tirelessly stand his ground on unpopular stances; truly the Bernie Sanders of the ASOIAF KZbin community. I mean this in the best way sir, you were made for government work. Anyways, 100000% that no one really cares if the adaptation is different if it is better. After all, it is better, it's mine, WHY SHOULDN'T I KEEP IT? Lol The LOTR books seem way more like The Chronicles of Narnia than ASOIAF, I agree with Trey. It's way more light hearted than in the movies. I barely felt like the hobbits were in danger all across the Shire, despite the Nazgul. And don't get me started on Tom Bombadil. Preston, will you make a Daario/Euron is Tom Bombadil video? That'd be hilarious

[@diegocamacho6477]

I agree that there were narrative problems with the Dance in Fire and Blood that requiered changes. I think they should have fixed it by giving more protagonism to the people that are active in the conflict like the Green siblings, Jace, Baela (she fought in the last dragon duel she should get SOMETHING), the great houses on each side. Instead they try to give more things to do to Daemon, Alicent and Rhaenyra, perpetuating the problem of the Dance as a narrative.

[@jaimebuenano]

It’s a wild assumption that because Martin was silent about season 8, you understand that as S8 was going to be similar to the ending of his book. Even Margery the actress said a large part of S8 being as bad as it was, was because they didn’t have a story to follow. You assume Martin was going to end his story the same way instead of assuming he understood, like Margery, that D&D didn’t have much a road map to help them. Disappointing

[@kpro8908]

D&D, Martin, and other creators have all said that Martin shared outlines with D&D while they were producing the later seasons of the shows. Natalie Dormer is a great actor, but I don’t know how much insight she had into the writer’s room, and I think it would be far more appropriate to read her quote as reference to published work rather than general outlines.

[@fred.d352]

Season 1s viserys wasn’t Ryan condall that was Miguel sapochnik. He was the show runner for season 1

[@Divine_Chareka]

Umm no dude, both Ryan and Miguel were showrunners

[@fred.d352]

@@Divine_Chareka so based upon Ryan’s decisions as the sole showrunner of season 2, who do you think elevated viserys character in the first season, Ryan or Miguel?

[@harsh_1910]

This is exactly what was happening with sara hess and ryan it's funny to see ryan on the otherside, ig people will never stop being stupid

[@King_Mac80]

I'm glad Preston finally mentioned it F&B isn't a good book, it's a bare-bones book that he wrote as a in world history book so that he didn't have to get knee deep in the detail.

[@djason338]

There's a lot of cope in these comments. People are mad about certain changes that were made, and are trying to confabulate evidence that George is mad about those exact same things but just doing it through coded language. It's like the people who overanalyze Ryan Cohen tweets. Can't stand fandom rage

[@Franz_Morhart]

If you think Fire & Blood is such crap, don't read book two, and don't talk about it, eh? lol (The book is better than the show, but they are veru different.)

[@juliemarie612]

I definitely give you guys and all content creators (aside from the rage baiters) kudos for dealing with some of the stuff you do. I agree, ignorant and hateful people always speak the loudest, and sometimes that can be all that's heard. I don't comment on youtube often, but I wanted to chime in with some support in case it's lacking lately. You're both entitled to your opinions, and you aren't obligated to defend those opinions. Your opinions can also change at any time, for any reason. If someone really gets upset over your personal opinion on a TV SHOW of all things, then they just really need a fucking hobby. Keep doing your thing, and try to brush the negative comments off.❤

[@aaronsoto1346]

I like the idea that God is flawed and is actually guiding humanity on the Christian lore but can’t remember it exactly and is putting in contradictions lol

[@bridgetofold5645]

Oh,😂 When Preston starting cussing out Fire and Blood I lost it.🤣🤣 I still think HOTD is a good production. But I'm not going to invest like I was after the Warning Shot George sent.

[@Mako2401]

Backpedal Preston, backpedal for your life buddy !!!!!

[@SpaceTravel1776]

Here's your legacy: Lord of the Rings has about 25 years left before it enters the public domain and anyone can make movies about it or write sequels and spinoff books. Laws changed for works after 1978, so Game of Thrones will have 70 years further after George dies before anyone can start adapting GoT (or finishing the series for him).

[@jamesmaxwell1940]

Whoever controls his estate after he dies will be able to approve adaptations or a new writer to finish the series.

[@nickdudesville5154]

I've always suspected Fire and Blood was a thinly veiled outline for HBO to make shows. It seemed designed for show runners/writers to flesh out and "make there own." I think George would be fine with whatever as long as they stick to the outline.

[@harsh_1910]

​@@beige_projection f&b has more than the dance, I think the op is right that the world book and f&b are just pitches for tv shows cuz that's exactly what they read like

[@iliaponomarev1624]

> Barristan wasn't the one making the coup But, like, he wasn't really the kingbreaker. Skahaz basically bullied him into the coup. So, it rhymes perfectly

[@SerraSoybilgin]

I think no one is talking about the real issues about the show. The question is not if HOTD is a good adaptation or not. The question is, “is HOTD a good tv show?” A good tv show doesn’t mean good adaptation same as good adaptation doesn’t mean good tv show. If we removed the fact that HOTD is based on a source material, the show would still have issues. For me, one of the most important part of a story is the characters. And I think the characters in HOTD are inconsistent. I don’t know what they want or need. I can’t tell their desires or fears. It is treating their own characters like plot lines from a sitcom. One need or want change within an episode. One desire or fear vanishes season to season. Characters do not change, they evolve. One of the examples is the difference between young Rhaenyra and older Rhaenyra. They are very different. And yes, people do change over the span of 10 years. This is true as the show runners said the same thing. However these are not people, these are characters. They should evolve into what they are today and the viewers should be a part of this evolution. We don’t get that in season 1. Which is fine, this is a minor complaint. But the problem is characters from 10 years later are also inconsistent. This is why people point out minor problems because the excuse they put out for the characters being different 10 years later indicates me why they have inconsistent characters. One thing can indicate a the reason of different issue. Another observation that I had was how they handle decision making. I think you need to be brave to write. I think you should realize it is not what you or anyone else wants, it is what the story requires. Does being brave mean killing every character brutally, murder of children and nudity scenes? No. Even though Game of Thrones was known for these, I don’t think the show was great (through 1-4) because of these. Yes, these made GOT popular but not great. The characters in HOTD do not make decisions, which is a VERY BIG part of a character. Most plot lines either happen accidentally or with the nudge of a different character. Everyone having morals does not mean everyone is good. Everyone being good does not mean they can’t make questionable decisions. This is human nature. I don’t see this understanding from the show. If the writer is hesitant, so are the characters. The show is not dragons, it is the people who ride them. It is not about the throne, it is about the people who sit on it. House of The Dragon (at this point) could never be as good as Game of Thrones (even GOT having a terrible ending not just as an adaptation also as a tv show.) because of characters. Game of Thrones was based on a book series with most of the characters having their own POV chapters. We see their thought, fears, wants and their perspectives. House of The Dragon is based on Fire and Blood, telling of the Targaryen history with only perspectives of different people who are out of the story. I don’t think we can blame the source material for the problems in HOTD. If you say “Yep, I will be adapting Dance of The Dragons” you should take responsibility of the story. The show wasn’t a need or necessity, it was a choice from whomever. Instability is worse than descent. Lost potential is more frustrating to some and to me. The show had instability before but after the Daemon vision scene, I have realized it is not the source material making issues for the writers but writers’s incompetence to handle characters. It is the way they see this story and this can’t be changed. Adaptations are hard because it is hard to find people who are competent to write AND understand the story to the core. The marketing for season 2 is really odd to me. Green vs. Black. The show does not attempt to make you choose a side. Because one side is clearly worse than the other. It is not much of a choice. I have watched Glidus’s bliss take videos from season 1 where he analyses the characters actions, and THEN I had a better understanding of some the characters. If I have to watch a video of someone diving deep into the characters to have a slight understanding of what they want, you ultimately failed in 1 season, 10 episodes, roughly 600 minutes. And lastly, i think this is also one of the philosophical problems of the show: A character is a character regardless of their gender. Upholding one, only hurts the upheld. Women are not better than men. As a person walking on the street right now is not better or worse than me but equal. The show is about a woman being usurped because of her gender. This does not mean Rhaenyra is better than Aegon. This (as a woman) hurts what feminism tries to accomplish. Theme does not always decide the characters actions. This show has two female leads but both feel empty. I also think they don’t know what set up and pay off mean as Alicent and Rhaenyra meet twice this season. I think this season ended for me when Daemon said “Winter is Coming”. I used to be excited about each episode but not anymore. You can have high budget, beautiful costumes, chilling music, amazing acting but if you don’t have the story and the characters you will fail. I heard someone say people are forgetting how bad the ending of Game of Thrones was so we should be grateful for HOTD. I heard stupid things in my life but this might be my number 1. I didn’t know just because the predecessor was bad, the successor can’t have important issues.

[@WhimsicalShark]

I'm with Carmine on this about George beginning to realize that the integrity of his art, legacy and intellectual property is in real danger of being destroyed by HBO and others. I don’t think the money is as sweet to him anymore. George hates fan fiction. GoT season 7 and 8 are effectively executed as if they were fan fiction and latter half of HoD s2 showed the same signs. As much as I crap on george I feel for him, he went the tv route for the last decade at the expense of finishing his best known work. I sense George feels betrayed and a loss of control on his own intellectual property.

[@alanpennie8013]

He does seem to be in some distress atm. It's sad because he seems to be a good person.

[@andrescalderonsanchez6515]

With the Helena scene I think she should have offered her life first then offered twice the amount of money to to spare them both and then blood and cheese keep insisting no choose one

[@aleksanderuzelac3319]

Guys you don't get it, George is a gardener.

[@alanpennie8013]

Garth Grrmhand.

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

and a space cowboy

[@indianrunner666]

taking what Preston says about the source material, actually this was the perfect time to adaptation tango and showrunners "make it their own" and they screw it

[@crannogman6289]

Arthur Daynes longsword is at $2100

[@Gary915]

Honestly that sounds like a steal compared to some of those other prices

[@remraf1984]

Are these still going Spotify? Can't find anything after ep 58.

[@amandaofhouserobinson6707]

I think sometimes I'm too scared to post in comments !! I cant handle the back lash! I love your vids , and am always lurking and enjoying!! 😊😊❤❤😊😊 don't let assholes bring you down! ❤😊

[@JonathanVegaa]

Their going to butcher my boy Daeron the Daring 😔

[@madhistoryn]

This is exactly why I’m concerned about the release of Winds of Winter, People like Preston will tear it apart just because it doesn’t match their own theories. He’s so condescending and entitled, even boasting that GRRM wouldn’t criticize the writers-only for GRRM to prove him wrong. Can you imagine the level of bitterness and resentment when *Winds of Winter* completely disproves his ASOIAF theories? It’s going to be a spectacle.

[@prolastmedia6171]

He is the epitome of smug lol

[@jimmytickles9651]

GOTTA jump in here about the Arwen saving Frodo from the Nazgul scene: no idea what Preston is going on about with it being a thematic link with Beren and Luthien or whatever, the reason it annoys me is because in the book Glorfindel saves Frodo and Glorfindel is an absolutely insane character who died in the First Age after single-handedly killing a Balrog, then got re-bodied by the Valar and sent back to Middle Earth because he was such a badass. Afaik he's about a thousand times more interesting than Arwen as a character and he was cut completely from the movies

[@lopezland8436]

Calling George being petty. Bruh look at the mirror be a lil idk self aware 😂💀 you made more videos about reviewing the episodes of the actual episode in the season. You must actually beyond a spectrum if fire and blood book was shit😂 definitely had some dope moments and cool characters

[@MC-el2us]

WHAT A TIME TO BE AN ASOIF FAN OMG 😭😫😂

[@leoferwer1813]

Maybe George felt betrayed. Maybe Ryan told him some things and then did them differently, while Dumb and Dumber were just two idiots but were honest with him, I don't know. I'm with George. If something I created is twisted against my will, well... I'd be furious too. And so would we all. Period. The very premise of the show is wrong. The show is about prophecies, goodies and baddies, the awesomeness of dragons, and how great and perfect are the real Targs. And it was supposed to be EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of that. Cheers.

[@m.q.7149]

Was GRRM unprofessional, for sure, 100%. I agree with Carmine, people side with him because they have similar feelings about S2. It is so crazy that there are so many changes to the Dance when it's a relatively short story and a finished one at that. Now I wanna know what else he was gonna say. But then again, I like to gossip.

[@m.q.7149]

@@AegonTheUnlikely Feminist writers room? How do you come up with something that dumb?

[@FencingMessiah]

I think it's unprofessional to lie to everyone that grrm is extensively part of the creation of the television series in order to garner support from the fans then butcher his work so haphazardly. While being smug as hell

[@iliaponomarev1624]

The problem with the Dance is that we don't know much, and what we know is not necessarily true and doesn't always make sense. And that's by design. So the authors kinda have to write their own story.

[@FencingMessiah]

@@iliaponomarev1624 that's not a problem. Many tv series are written without any source material or a lore to fall back on and they come out great. If anything it's a luxury to be able to build upon something with a clear blueprint

[@potatostarch9363]

what intrigues me is what pushed george to go the “unprofessional” route. he didn’t say shit during d&d fucking up asoiaf, so george felt that something had to be said.

[@LelouchViBr]

I wanna listen to this but I'm scared of future spoilers. Is it spoiler free? I haven't read the books and know nothing past season 2.

[@Unit75]

My favorite part was the girl aimlessly running around, I guess chasing the dragon. After running around for hours, maybe days, she was thirsty and that was it, no conclusion, just absolutely pointless. And this sums up the entire show so far. I have said from the beginning, they should never have made HOTD, but HBO wanted dragons. There’s so many more interesting stories where you can get multiple seasons that can be fantastic. I can’t wait for D+E, I love the stories and… Bloodraven! I pray they don’t mess up D+E.

[@thedragondemands5186]

Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps GRRM was LYING about "they just have Helaena randomly kill herself for no particular reason"?? Consider he knows how controversial it would be to reveal what they're ACTUALLY doing in Season 3....so perhaps he just made up a fake one. As a warning shot. The equivalent of saying "now in Season 3, Giant Space Bats are going to kill Helaena!" -- to get Warner's attention. This would explain why his accusation doesn't make much sense (that the book gave four or five possible reasons for it already)

[@alanpennie8013]

I don't think it had occurred to anyone except you, but it's an interesting theory.

[@bshaddo]

I have. Frankly, he’s set himself to take credit if the next season is great, and none of the blame if it works. Best of all, he doesn’t have to work, but people will think he actually accomplished something.

[@guwopzy]

18:40 This change kind of sucks tho, Seeing Oscar Isaac archetype playing Baelor would be sick. I get he’s never described as being completely dark but its implications on Daerons legitimacy are important. The whole family is full of nordic looking exotic people, why can’t we get Baelor, and maybe even Valarr and Matarys.

[@TheeCharmaine]

Good dialogue! What’s Preston’s YT page?

[@syntychiahintsin-tee-shaks2256]

Agreed on PJ’s LOTR, he made changes, example in the book’s Aragorn was constantly on 100 in regards to be the heir of Isildur. He didn’t have that reluctant hero vibe that PJs Aragorn had. Yet, PJ respected the source material. We were pissed off about Glorfindel being omitted in the flight to Rivendell in order to give Arwen more screen time. A quarter of a century later and I’m still pissed about that.

[@Siegbert85]

I could see myself paying good money for actual movie props. It's just like the relics of old... you know it was touched by that person in your favorite show. There is something special about it

[@thebounceoftheball6524]

George can’t criticise Dave and Dan when he fell short on providing them with source material. I think most people would agree that the show fell off after they ran out of source material to adapt and were left with plot points to hit.

[@yven9015]

They never intended to adapt major plots from the later books like Stoneheart or young Griff, if they had ik sure he would've been more collaborative back

[@harsh_1910]

Liek I always say, they made 4 seasons from 3 books and then they mad barely a season from 2 books like they had material they just didn't use it

[@caorlimoes]

i loved the last section going over the props going on sale idk why but they were so funny 😂😂

[@tharunvenkat2192]

of course its fine to criticize bad changes and love good changes - George himself praised Viserys and doesn't like Maelor, B&C, etc. - its not a hypocrisy, its rightful criticism. If you bake a cake, and improve it with changing the recipe to taste better (using higher quality ingredients or adding extra chocolate or a fruit to a cake which works), then you've made a better cake than the original recipe-writer, but if u substitute sugar with salt (e.g. getting rid of Maelor, or all the Rhaenicent nonsense), then you've made the cake worse or even ruined it like HOTD S2 While calling HOTD S2 as salt instead of sugar inside a cake, rather than says a lot of unnecessary raisins, is a bit extreme on my part, improvements being lauded and bad changes being panned is expected, and certainly hold no hypocrisy

[@Ulyssestnt]

Christopher Tolkien(or someone important from the Tolkien Family)didn't like the Lord of the Rings movies initially at least. He thought it mindless 90s/00s action. He said it wasn't in the spirit of JRRs vision as those were whimsical tales supposed to be read and were read by their father at bedtime and not aforesaid mindless action. I read this in an interview years and years ago but it always stuck in my mind.

[@Imanmagnet00]

Preston is 100% correct about Fire and Blood

[@williamcavanaugh4432]

Huge fan of all three of you gentlemen. There's something endearing about Theon's Torture Trousers selling for a humble $500 😆

[@prolastmedia6171]

This Preston guy got on my nerves 😂 I really loved Fire and Blood, it was the first entry in the series that I read. Regardless of whether it's your favorite or not, calling it worthless and shit definitely rubs me the wrong way

[@quickpawmaud]

Don't you realize? George is doing performance art and what he says is intentionally contradictory and unreliable just like in Fire and Blood. He never turns it off he has been playing a part never once breaking character for decades.

[@outsidein9809]

Guys I’m in Canada and can’t find your podcast on Spotify! Any suggestions?!

[@jonathanm9069]

I thought Preston knew a little bit of spanish. That pronunciation of John Leguizamo's last name was so crazy I literally couldn't understand who he was talking about first. For a second I thought he was talking about Jonah Lomu, lol.

[@lilren2021]

@48:46 Dude Preston. That’s intentional. F&B has contradictory stories in it , like ancient history does , but it’s clear that by the time we get to the events of ASOIAF the only narrative that has survived in the cultural consciousness is the one of the Kingmaker. Like, how there are multiple versions in the Gospels of Jesus’ dying on the cross, but the one that Trey remembers and is the most popular is “Forgive them Father; For they know what not they do”. It’s an example of myth making and I don’t understand how you think so narrowly about the text and how Trey, who has a background in history, didn’t call you out on it. 😂

[@kingbellos1403]

I personally don’t have much sympathy for George and I feel him and his author buddies are being disingenuous. George wrote TV and Hollywood for a decade. Tried to make his own shows and movies. Then left bc he said he hated studio compromises and how adaptations are always worse than the original. Preached that from the mountain tops for years until HBO came with money. So he 100% knew what he was getting into. So he either cared about the money more… or he took the money with intent to complain if he didn’t like it. Both are disingenuous. That is like paying a guy to make your icecream and then complain and review bomb him when you get sick bc you are lactose intolerant.

[@thesunabsolute]

Preston is so bang on about LoTR and the films. So much so, that when Rings of Power is accurate to the source material, people whine and complain that its wrong and they are using the films as a basis. Bizzarro world.

[@dontworryaboutit5490]

Rings of power is ass

[@jaimebuenano]

Watchmen didn’t take any risks because it didn’t need to… was already a great story for the filmmakers to follow and tweak whatever necessary

[@jamestolliver7413]

Haha the Robert note is him naming his heir. I can't believe you guys haha

[@OfficialRedTeamReview]

Different note. haha, can't believe you

[@DarksideGmss0513]

It sucks that this is happening, but I also can't help but feel George is somewhat guilty here too. There's the old adage of "If you want something done right do it yourself" maybe if George was more involved with the series and didn't just and it over he wouldn't have these problems. You'd have thought he would have learned by now after what Dan and Dave did.

[@prolastmedia6171]

George is as involved as the executives allow him to be. What's he supposed to do if they refuse to listen to him?

[@DarksideGmss0513]

@@prolastmedia6171 Pull his contact with HBO

[@DarksideGmss0513]

@@prolastmedia6171 Pull his contract

[@DarksideGmss0513]

@@prolastmedia6171 that's bullshit. He can be involved if he wants to be. But it seems like he doesn't. And if they refuse to listen to him he can pull his contract with HBO and tell them to shove it.

[@ramilgarifullin3702]

Yeah people don't care about the changes if they are good, if the changes are bad people would eviscerate them. But if some parts of the adaptation are bad because of the source material no one would blink an eye because the good parts would also be good.