Yamaha XG YMF724 PCI Sound card PC/PCI (SB-Link) in DOS

[@Vile-Flesh]

I learned something new. I had no idea about this PC/PCI header but we always used ISA cards for DOS gaming and continued to do so and only used PCI sound cards for some windows games and ZDOOM, mostly in Win98 which was mainly an Ensonic PCI 5200. This video is very interesting.

[@envoycdx]

Fantastic, I never realised what this was for. this will certainly help with my Pentium 3 DOS /98 machine.

[@jedikwon]

I did exactly same thing you did to my AOpen yamaha PCI sound card. I added pins, resistors and connected it to the motherboard with jumper cables just like you did . But then it didn't work. I thought there must be an incompatibility issue with the motherboard or some other issue. I gave up there and just used an ISA card. Then I wanted to give it another shot and then I realized a jumper cable that connects pin 4 was actually faulty! I replaced it with a working cable, all works perfectly well now. Since then I always do a continuity test on a jumper cable before I use it.

[@scrap_computing]

Wow! Faulty cables are the worst!

[@RetroTinkerer]

Thanks, there is very little info about PC/PCI SB-Link in video format, thanks!

[@scrap_computing]

Yes, there aren't too many videos out there, but vogons has some great threads about these cards!

[@aikidoboynj]

Awesome video, now i have to check my motherboards for this hidden link !! 💪🤓👍

[@brokenfix]

This is the tutorial I needed. Thank you so much.

[@mariusz76a]

Good job Elmo.

[@baghdadiabdellatif1581]

Greet work 👌 Especially the compatibility part 👏 You could use the bios setup to allocate the IRQ that it needs. Greetings from north Africa (Algeria )

[@scrap_computing]

True, I should have done that in the first place :)

[@slaapliedje]

Very nice! When I was getting parts for my build I ended up going down this rabbit hole as well. Ended up with that same Yamaha card with the header on it and an Asus P2B. Which I think I eventually upgraded to a P2F (it can hold more RAM)

[@scrap_computing]

Yeah, these are decent sound cards for retro builds.

[@oldhuntersu]

I subscribed to your channel and look forward to new interesting videos from you!

[@scrap_computing]

Thanks!

[@AshtonCoolman]

I have several Yamaha cards like this one but never knew what this header was for. I'll check my motherboards.

[@scrap_computing]

Some motherboards have solder pads for the PC/PCI header but the actual header is missing. So you would have to solder it yourself.

[@aleksandrchibirev1381]

Thank you. Now my XG 754 works great in DOS with Pentium III slot 1.

[@Inject0r]

I absolutely loved this video! There’s so much useful information in this video. I thought you were done with the first card, after which you pulled out another one. That concluded it, right? No way! The SMD’s aren’t installed yet! Absolutely loved it! You’ve got yourself a subscriber! Now, we do need to solve the issue of only a few motherboards having this header. You’ve mentioned those pins being available on the CPU of that Socket 3 lay-out, and one of those SB_LINK headers being very close to the southbridge. There should be a way to be able to get this to work on more motherboards than the ones with a plug-and-play header on board, right? Thanks again!

[@scrap_computing]

Hi, glad you liked the video! Some motherboards do have an unpopulated header that you can add yourself. But if the motherboard does not even have pads for it, then I think it would be *really* hard to add one. The reason is that the chipset is surface mounted BGA, it is not in a socket. You need to access 3 pins on the chip: REQ-A#, GNTA# and SER-IRQ. On the 440BX the first two are on the outermost layer of pins but the third one is on the second row of pins. You may be able to solder some jumper wires to get to the first two, but the third one will be *very* tricky. Well, you may go half-way there and use only the two outermost pins (and use the PC/PCI DMA mode and skip the SER_IRQ in the configuration).

[@FOIL_FRESH]

Very interesting and informative video. I would like to add the SBLink header to my YMF744 one day. Thanks

[@scrap_computing]

It is worth giving it a try!

[@logipilot]

My solo1 has an sb-link and I have the cable, but it works the same with or without 😅

[@scrap_computing]

I don't have much experience with the solo-1. The only one I have tried was an on-bard one and it would not switch to ddma/s-irq mode, not sure why. The default mode was not very compatible with old sierra games though.

[@SelectaDockiii]

Great video on a much needed topic thanks!

[@scrap_computing]

Thanks!

[@ShrineOfLife]

one question of an solder unexperianced - would it be possible not to remove the solde from the pads first, but just heat it up and use it as is, and force the pins in the designated spot?

[@scrap_computing]

That would be tricky but I guess if you heat the pads long enough it might work.

[@joaoc_PT]

I wonder, if those are only 3 pinouts, on newer motherboards without the SB-Link header, could they be "piggy back" in the superIO, amr or other vias that come from the south bridge? Or disable one of the usb controlers and use its hw resources? Or is SB-Link something the southbridge has to physically has the connectors for it? Got a YMF744 in a socket462 that would like to use in DOS.

[@scrap_computing]

As far as I know only a few south bridge chips have SB-link pins. I don't think there is a way access to them through some other connector.

[@pavelfara9333]

Great video! Thank you. I have a Yamaha 724 using SB-Link cable. Is there any way how to use the midi device in pure MS-DOS? In win98 DOS window it works just fine and the music in Doom or Monkey is amazing! But in the pure MS-DOS i have no music. Only if I set everything just as "Soundblaster" but no general midi 😢

[@scrap_computing]

I don't know whether general midi is supported in DOS. The best place to ask would be at vogons.org.

[@pavelfara9333]

@@scrap_computing Thanks! I gonna try there. Might be interesting for more people. Anyway I have made the sb-link cable and it all the other functions work now pretty good 👍

[@LotoTheHero]

Very informative video. Thank you very much!

[@scrap_computing]

Thanks!

[@grachinc]

Great video! Thanks! Have the same soundcard but other motherboard - Acorp 6via85p with VIA chipset. Had to solder SB-LINK there (there were solder points) and lots of games works fine except... Doom 2! Have music but no SFX. I cant even imagine what this game doesn't like. At the same time if i remove SB-LINK cable and set up soundcard via INTA and DDMA - then everithing works great. Any thoughts?

[@scrap_computing]

Hmm could it be an issue with the VIA chip?

[@gggg-bk7md]

Excelente!!! Es enteramente necesario agregar esas resistencias?? Mis capacidades para soldar prácticamente no existen!!!

[@scrap_computing]

They may not be strictly necessary. You may get it to work without soldering them. My guess is that they are used for stopping noise coming in from the connector or cable. But I may be wrong.

[@elinimitable8932]

i have a YMF724F-V after installation, same as you everytime i boot chcp 437 NLSFUNC not installed and C:\>del \DOS4GW.exe is that a problem?

[@scrap_computing]

I have never encountered this problem, sorry.

[@Dudulinek82]

is there way how to run General Midi support under pure DOS 6.22? Now i have Asus P2B 1.12 with SBLink. Under W98 GM working fantastic with DOS games but under pure DOS dont know how to run GM. For example Sound Blaster Live (SB0060, SB0100 or SB0220) GM working fine with DOS.

[@scrap_computing]

Good question, I have not tried GM. Have you checked with the folks over at vogons? There are several threads and tons of information about these cards (e.g., www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=48133).

[@ToxicwasteProductions]

Is there a way to use dos audio without the pc/pci connector? Thinking if you boot into windows and click on the file for say duke3d?

[@scrap_computing]

Yes, these cards support many types of compatibility modes, including ones that don't need the cable. These will work fine in many games. The PC/PCI cable will just make them compatible with even more games.

[@ToxicwasteProductions]

@@scrap_computing I did try yesterday in duke nukem 3d and midi works great. However game sounds just give me a stunning blue screen and a system hang. Not sure why that computer had such hatred for dos. It's a socket 370 with 1ghz cpu however it's missing an Isa slot. So I guess it's a windows only pc haha.

[@emchodevetkov9438]

always use the farthest slot for audio and closest for vga - first pc lesson back in 1998 😀

[@stevenyjtsai]

NO SBLINK NO SOUND on DOS?

[@scrap_computing]

You can still get sound, but it is not as compatible as with SB-Link.

[@brokenfix]

Has anyone managed to make CD audio tracks work in DOS? I've mostly everything working perfectly with the PC/PCI connection, but DOS games that need CD tracks for music just won't play them through the sound card. I have the CD-ROM drive drivers installed and the CD spins and you can hear the music through the headphones jack in the cd drive, but never through the speakers.

[@awd42]

Make sure the analog audio cable between the sound card and CD-ROM drive is properly connected. Assuming it is, check the mixer settings -- the CD input could be turned down or muted.

[@brokenfix]

@@awd42 Yes, after half a day of frustration, I fixed it by installing the latest MS-DOS drivers and utilities, and then finding the mixer with weird interface. My CD audio was muted in MS-DOS mode. Thanks!

[@sryx]

So was this SB-Link approach rendered obsolete because of the advances in software compatibility in Windows or was there an advantage with it technically?

[@scrap_computing]

I guess by the year 2000 all new Windows programs were using windows audio, not DOS-style audio so SB-Link was no longer as important as it used to be.

[@pc-sound-legacy]

Thank you! Now I've understand how PC-Link works. Too bad there are just a few motherboards with this connector. (My Asus CUBX-L don't have it unfortunately)

[@scrap_computing]

It looks like your motherboard has unpopulated SB-Link solder pads under the 3rd PCI slot counting from the top. There is a good chance it will work if you add a header.

[@CompuforceWally]

Thanks for this video, I will try to do the same on mine. Have the Asus P3B-F slot 1. Maybe I can remove the Creative AWE64 sound card and use the Yamaha only by itself with this mod! (I simply don't like how the Creative sounds..)

[@scrap_computing]

Yeah AWE audio is only good for mid to late 90s games.

[@คิดไซเบอร์]

Listen to music, watch movies, is the sound good?

[@scrap_computing]

I guess this depends more on the actual card implementation and not on the YMF724 chip. The ones I have sound fine.

[@Jack7277]

interesting

[@ДмитрийМаринин-й8ъ]

У меня есть такая звуковая карта. На yamaha ymf724 можно включить Hi-Fi в windows 95,98. Для этого необходимо изменить в реестре всего один параметр после чего в настройках yamaha появится галочка Hi-Fi. Эта функция является скрытой и не была документирована производителем потому что имела цену ниже чем другая более дорогая звуковая карта, где эта опция включена при установке и на более дорогой карте точно такой же чип, который имеет другую маркировку. Если кому интересно я напишу тут путь в реестре и параметр, который необходимо изменить

[@scrap_computing]

What does this Hi-Fi feature do? Does it change the sampling frequency?

[@ДмитрийМаринин-й8ъ]

@@scrap_computing 1. В реестре по адресу HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\YAMAHA\Driver\YMF724 добавить (или изменить) ключ ShowWaveOut (двоичный). Значение 01. 2. Перегрузиться. 3. В Панели управления открыть ямаховский аплет. Там должна появиться закладка "Wave Out". 4. Там установить Hi-Fi mode. 5. Перегрузиться. Это для Windows 98

[@EvoPortal]

This was never needed back in the day. All PCI Sound Blaster compatible cards (95% of cards) did not have this issue and played DOS audio.

[@explorer9049]

PCI Sound Blaster all had terrible TSR SB emulation and weren't compatible with a lot games. sound card's like these with the SB-LINK connection had near perfect ISA Sound Blaster compatibility with DOS games.