The Perfect Soccer Cities | Is History Repeating?

In this video we explore how the great soccer cities came to be the great soccer cities and whether or not history is repeating itself in the United States.
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0:00 Intro
1:14 Sponsor
1:51 Soccer History
6:56 History Repeating?

[@wordsintowins]

I lived in atlanta for 2 years. People fill up the benz for soccer. It's wild to see that in the USA. This is also a city that neglected their NHL team.

[@carltonharvey]

to be fair we didn't neglect our nhl team. our ownership group neglected our nhl team in the first 5-7 yrs the Thrashers had excellent attendance but then the ownership that bought the Hawks in '04 had to buy the Thrashers as part of the deal. they didn't give a damn about the hockey team and it showed they would sell our best players for profit instead of building a team and thus, we had a hockey team for 14 yrs but they only made the playoffs ONCE in a league where half the teams make the playoffs. that's why Atlantans gave up on the hockey team because ownership never invested in them

[@Ksohrable]

Loving your work on the economics of MLS lately. The dominant economic strength of American sports and increasing disparity in European soccer is a big reason why I got into supporting US Soccer, thanks for your insight Sam

[@YankReport]

Thank you, Ksohrable

[@chancemiller9340]

That was a good one, Sam. It actually pops into my head when I read about people moving to European teams.

[@jonpetter8921]

Until american Soccer owners decides to"move" a MLS team to another city cause they got not enough money......

[@LINKedup101]

​@@jonpetter8921 that's actually already happened a few times, but like the Cleveland Browns the teams that moved were given new identities and expansion brought back the clubs that were out on ice

[@greenman1694]

I noticed that too Sam and was always curious how Berlin and Rome’s teams were so bad despite being the largest cities in their respective countries. However, it’s the quite opposite in Latin America. The biggest teams in Mexico come from the 3 biggest cities in Mexico. All of south America’s biggest teams, come from either the biggest or second biggest cities in their respective countries. It’s crazy to think about why that is.

[@jerysouza6745]

Here in Brazil I think the reason why the teams from the major cities became the most successful and popular teams in the country was mainly because of the late industrialization of the country. When the smaller cities located in another regions of the country distant from Rio, São Paulo and Belo Horizonte finally started to grow, the teams from these big cities were already successful and through wide radio and after tv broadcasting to the whole country, many people became supporters of these big teams instead of supporting their local (and less successful) local teams. In Brasília, our capital city and the fourth biggest city in terms of population, there are no teams in the first three national divisions and the local population support teams from Rio and São Paulo because the city was founded only in the sixties, when teams like Flamengo, Corinthians and Palmeiras were already successful.

[@sunrae3971]

Its early (post WWII) sponsor money in Berlin. Berlin was not only divided after WWII for 40 Years, but also all the wealthy Industry of East Germany were either shifted to Russia (Reparation) or West Germany due to russian occupation. Companies like Siemens, Audi, Deutsche Bank, Carl Zeiss even BMW. Most of the Stuff ended in Southern Germany. So Clubs in the West have at 60 years leap of financial support, because economic only stabilized in the late 2000s in the east.

[@margiha]

nah, Roma and Lazio aren't bad , Roma is almost always in the title race,and Lazio is constantly in the 7th place fight

[@NR-fd9wv]

berlin cannot really be compared to other major european cities. it has a lot to do with the city being divided. the eastern part was home to the most successful team in eastern germany, it dominated the 1980s (partly due to government interference) and there were even 2 more clubs fro berlin that had been eastern german champions. but when germany was reunited the eastern german clubs couldn't compete with the western clubs. they were at a massive disadvantage because of the different ways sports clubs were run n the western and eastern blocks of the world. they struggled on and off the field. the western part of berlin also had a significant disadvantage since it was somewhat isolated from the rest of germany.

[@mamelu711]

Probably European migration (specifically British) in the late 19th early 20th century mostly being concentrated in urban parts of Latin America has to do with it

[@ariessilva]

Being an Austin fan and supporter I think you described well why this city loves its team so much and your reasoning seems logical. At least here in Austin all your points seem valid. For us it has been a unifying experience with the huge influx of new people and the long time Austinites to have a shared team and passion. No matter if we get another professional team in the future Austin fc will always be special to this city

[@chancemiller9340]

All true as well as… 1) Austin has no other professional teams. 2) If you didn’t go to UT, you finall have a team to root for. 3) You can take mass transit to the game. (Try that in Frisco.) 4) Although the stadium is not in the city center, the stadium is still within the city limits. 5) Soccer is the hipster sport du jour and Austin is dripping with hipsters. 6) In season two the team kicked all kinds of ass. Bringing in an attacking Argentine is always a good idea when trying to figure out what your team needs.

[@GregNeal1]

@@chancemiller9340 Your points are valid. As a competitive soccer player who lived in Austin 30 years ago, (I played for the UT Club team as well) we would go to Austin Sockadillo games at House Park (early 90s) and literally we would be lucky to have 500 people at the game. Wolfgang Sunholz (former Bayern Munich player) was the coach and was the "dean" of Austin Soccer back then...Of course, Austin has changed a lot in 30 years, but Dallas has so much deeper soccer roots it's not even a comparison. Dallas is home to the National Soccer Hall of Fame, an original MLS team, the best youth tournaments in the nation, and arguably the best academy as well, producing scores of USMNT and international players,not to mention SMU, a top 10 D1 program year after year.. That said, I am happy for Austin and they have done a great job with the stadium and marketing of the team and happy the sport is now getting the recognition in the city.

[@jasperedwards]

Austin is a soccer city ⚽ ¡Vamos ATX! 🟢⚫

[@danielhuynh9368]

I actually think LA could become "Madrid-esque" in the long run. There really is a soccer undercurrent here in the LA metro area. It's a result of the Latino influence on this part of the country. I'm gonna go and put a bold statement. By 2050, the two MLS teams will be the most popular sports teams in the LA area. Soccer as of this moment is niche everywhere with hotspots but, I truly believe LA is gonna emerge as one of the first true soccer-dominant cities in the nation. I think both LAFC and the LA Galaxy will win a lot of trophies in the next 20 years. LA is gonna be soccer hub central. Other than that, I don't know about Chicago. But I kinda see New York becoming "London-esque". There teams will win every now and then but experience a lot of years of dissapointment in the process. Like Arsenal and Spurs. But anyways. I'm talking out of my ass lol. Great video Sam!

[@Patrick61804]

By then it will probably be 1. Lakers 2. LA Dodgers 3. LAFC 4. LA Galaxy (put it lower only because it is further from city center) 5. LA Rams 6. LA Clippers 7. LA Kings (Chargers won’t be in the city by then, and I don’t count the Angels)

[@davidday2373]

The Galaxy will fade... unless they get new "owners" But what do you mean L.A. could be "Madrid-esque"?

[@danielhuynh9368]

@@davidday2373 In terms of success. I realize I’m biased but, I could see LAFC being a signature team in 2 or 3 decades. Galaxy as well. Like a league leading number of MLS Cups.

[@danielhuynh9368]

@@Patrick61804 I really don’t think baseball fans understand the demographic hurdle baseball faces. It’s hard to reverse things like that especially baseball whose whole point is to be indoctrinated at a young age. Baseball more than anything is a habit. Habits start young. That’s why as a hockey fan, I’m worried but the good news hockey is way more newbie friendly. Baseball it’s best introduced young. I think the Dodgers and baseball fandom will take a hard hit the next 30 years. I think the Dodgers will slide to 4th most popular by 2050. They will be a “big niche” but no longer a core part of the LA sports scene.

[@davidday2373]

@@danielhuynh9368 LAFC will, but idk about the Galaxy.

[@marktomatino6564]

Great analysis. I think another factor impacting the popularity of MLS teams in large cities is competition for attention/relevancy with more established sports franchises. People only have a limited amount of time/money/attention they can put towards following sports. New York City has 2 teams each in the NFL, MLB, and NBA as well as 3 NHL teams. It would be difficult for the Chicago Fire to pull sports fandom and attention away from massive, historic franchises like the Bears, Cubs, and Bulls.

[@YankReport]

Competition not just from other sports but other forms of entertainment as well. Sports across the board are dealing with fans now having so much access to so much entertainment.

[@marktomatino6564]

@@YankReport Absolutely, good point.

[@Backpackfiles]

Not as tough as you might think, considering Chicago teams are generally middle runners and anyone will gravitate towards a winner. Note the crowds of Chicago Fire matches in their first three seasons. In '98 they dueled with Sammy Sosa & the Cubs; and the Bulls "last dance" but the football supporters came out to support a winner and brought the bandwagon with them.

[@JorbyBlorby]

I've been searching for American soccer content for literally years. UrinatingTree revived my interest in sports years ago, but he doesn't cover soccer. I've wanted that content void filled ever since, and now I finally find someone! Keep it up

[@thomasopp9104]

Over the first few minutes I was like, "OK, so one of the central theses of Soccernomics?" Haha. Great video, Sam. Way to extend and test the authors' argument in the US market 👍🏼

[@erinm1218]

It's very fun supporting our local Sacramento team in the USL. First we wound up at the national finals last year which was beyond exciting. Also you can drive to other local city rivals for away games. In LA we had to drive an hour and a half to get to the stadium whereas in Sacramento it's 15 minutes away. We don't have an NFL team either here although we do have NBA. It's fun to play local rivals like Oakland, San Diego, Orange County, etc. rather than teams from across the country.

[@raulfigueroa588]

Awesome, Sac Republic is dope! I just moved to Sac about a year ago and was pretty impressed with the support for Sac Republic

[@winstonwwright]

First video I've seen from your channel. Absolute quality, definitely earned a sub!

[@zackwatson6912]

Sam - absolutely love this video. Have been watching for a while now but first time I felt obligated to comment. This sort of content absolutely fascinates me and Soccernomics has been on my list to read for a while now. I think (as a lifelong American football fan) that there’s a comparison/analogy to be made to the American football fandoms of the US industrialized Midwest. Steelers, Packers, Bills, Browns have some of the most diehard fans. I think your comparison to the Silicon Valley age and the rise of Portland, Seattle, etc is such a great contrast to this. As an Indiana resident who really solidified my soccer fandom during the 2017 FC Cincinnati USOC run, I think that soccer fan culture is such a great atmosphere that really only rivals college sports out of the other major US sports. Keep up the great work, love your content!

[@YankReport]

I was thinking about the NFL comparison as well. Smaller market fan bases like Bufallo, New Orleans, Green Bay, Kansas City have more of that college atmosphere than some of the big city teams.

[@zackwatson6912]

@@YankReport Yeah, I think a lot of it comes back to the cultural thing you talked about with other industrial revolution inspired metropolises and the desire to prove that “our city is cool too”. Especially cool to see the “fan-owned” Packers and love the 50+1 rule of the Bundesliga. Would love to see the NFL or other American sports leagues try something like that, I think it really makes the whole experience more tribal, especially since crazy rich old owners can get so much bad press for a team.

[@Northwest360]

Loved the video, talking about culture and history!

[@chonstonjr]

Found this channel not too long ago. So far, all of your videos have been wicked good. It's hard to find some consistently quality US Soccer content, let alone USMNT content. Keep it up, man!

[@jamestyler12JT]

These videos are surprisingly helping me with university proposal. I love it. Please keep it up.

[@YankReport]

Lol.

[@JonathanCLacy]

I completely agree. I'm from Fort Lauderdale and while I'm a huge Inter Miami fan they wreste with (and will probably continue to wreste with) the same thing the other major sports teams here face. Everyone here is from somewhere else and there's a milion great things to do here. Yet I think loyalty will grow as generation continue to be raised here.

[@AlexTorres-fo5eo]

Agreed... When I was born, the Dolphins and Hurricanes were the only thing in town... and when the Heat, Marlins, and Panthers came about, no one claimed them... as you can see the Heat built a nice fanbase. I also think they rat fucked tf out Miami Fusion FC... who kills a Supporter Shield winner in the same season won?

[@jessearmijo676]

Great dissection of these mega-cities in the US not fully supporting an MLS club. Your points brought out a great fact about my beloved city - Albuquerque. We have a USL team (New Mexico United) and we definitely show pride and support for that club calling Albuquerque home. The attendance is the top of the USL, with major support that can rival many MLS clubs, yet our market is fairly small - ABQ population is around 900k in the metro area. Yet, we pack the stadium every home game. Many other USL teams/cities are finding this sport as an extension of their city and pride themselves on supporting and expressing their pride though these soccer clubs. It's a great time to be a fan of the sport. Let's hope more cities support these leagues and the sport.

[@Kyle_Apgar]

Very informative and good listen.

[@theCranesUS]

St Louis use to be considered soccertown USA. It is a shame they have not received an MLS team until recently.

[@peterburry2531]

But what a state-of-the-art stadium!!... If they'd arrived earlier they might now be playing in Dick's Sporting Goods Park.

[@TheQuigs89]

Great video mate👍

[@grahamroberts2893]

In the UK an integrated railway network in the 19th century allowed football teams from various towns to regularly play every Saturday.

[@philrandall8745]

Something he didn’t mention about Austin FC is that Austin FC is the only pro sports team in the area. UT sports are the biggest game in town which leaves a huge hunger for other sports which is where Austin FC fills that well.

[@_12346.]

Once again Sam showing why he’s the best USMNT content creator by a mile

[@robthomas5827]

I almost feel bad for the content creators that have a hyper-focus on the USMNT's European-based players. If all you have to focus on these days is the travails of Pulisic, McKennie, Aaronson, and Gio Reyna, your content is pretty stale right now. Sam keeps us coming back with new angles and insights. Thanks for another great video!

[@JoshuaAmericana]

great video, very informative and never knew how connected industrial cities are with fan culture but makes sense, bodes will for St Louis City imo

[@danielfrancella5219]

Here in Pittsburgh we have the river hounds. Stadium hold 5k. The supporter is awesome.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

You already know this, Sam, but great piece. This was a fun storyline to hear and you weaved in the US landscape really well.

[@YankReport]

Thanks. It was a lot of work but I’m pretty proud. Hopefully the vid finds and audience and has a long KZbin life.

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

@@YankReport you should definitely be proud of it. With your title, it's going to create curiosity outside of your regular audience and hopefully get some Europeans that are interested in what's happening in the MLS to click too. They might become part of the channel too. - Josh

[@ExpatsEverywhere]

Btw, we just did something we've been needing to do for a while now. 😉

[@YankReport]

@@ExpatsEverywhere thank you, Josh 🤜🤛

[@oyaml1211]

Love the MLS videos!

[@YrbRMA]

Sorry but Madrid history wasn't made by Franco, in fact during Franco's era, Barcelona won more domestic titles than Real Madrid, Real made the difference in Europe. Franco use them after their success for propaganda in Europe but he did not have any power in Europe compared to Italy, England, France, Germany and all the countries that played the European Cup. He also threatened Real Madrid president while he was travelling to create the European Cup and Real Madrid president also expelled a bloodthirsty Franco general from the stadium (Millana Astray)

[@Herb615]

Even though I am a massive fan of Canada, I really liked this video and appreciate the research put into this video. I also liked how you paid respect to football’s working-class roots. I would like to add some points. Also, I think the suburb argument has some weight. I say this because the large markets of Toronto FC and LAFC have very strong attendances with stadiums downtown while other large markets like Inter Miami and FC Dallas have very low attendances with stadiums in suburbs. As someone who lives in Dallas, going to an FC Dallas is an hour's drive and there are a lot of inner-city working-class football fans here who simply don’t have the means to commute regularly from downtown to Frisco once a week. This is a part of a greater problem of urban sprawl in the United States. Contrast this to my experience in Toronto where most city residents can go to the stadium on foot or by transit (much like a lot of Premier League and Bundesliga stadiums). Accessibility helps a lot with attendance. It is also important to understand that larger cities may have greater red tape regarding inner-city stadium development mostly due to the space. NYCFC's struggle to build stadiums in New York City is mostly a product of the city is very densely populated. Likewise, smaller Southeast and Midwest cities have more room to build these stadiums.

[@ZergCheco]

this was a very good video

[@aidanbochey4153]

Just want to mention depending on which population report, austin ranks 10 in the nation above San Jose which would become a larger market. Granted that is just one example. Philadelphia is a huge and often overlooked market but it’s attendance is large in terms of percentage stadium full not to mention their team is elite

[@lilvic04]

As a Fire fan, I wanna believe in this club. We have the potential to be a major club, the infrastructure will be there and most importantly we have a dormant fan base. Chicago has some great history in sports, not just soccer, but also in football with the Bears, Bulls are in basketball, Blackhawks, Cubs, and Black sox, I mean you name it they all have loyal fanbases. The Fire just need to find a way to succeed on the field and the support will explode. I hope at least.

[@davidday2373]

To flip things... Soccer in Europe is like College Football & Basketball in the U.S. sports landscape. "Provincial" towns have more success, better supported, historically speaking. Whereas Soccer in Latinoamerica is more like Pro Sports in the U.S., more successful and better supported in "the Big City." The exception to the rules being Los Angeles, CA, which has successful, well-supported College and Pro teams, including Soccer.

[@knjhik]

Great video, however I feel like you should consider something when referring to the MLS attendance averages. The top 3 teams in the chart play out of NFL capacity stadiums, which naturally allows them to pull higher attendance rates. I don't say this to claim that these fanbases are worse than others, but rather that other teams could produce similar numbers if not for their lower capacity stadiums. Some big market teams definitely could do so, such as both LA teams. Perhaps moves to greater venues could benefit MLS teams in the future.

[@XLRAshon]

Excuse my language: Holy sh@t what a great f@cking video Sam!!! I read Soccernomics and wrote a lengthy paper about soccer and it’s cultural impact back in college. One of my favorite books I ever read and you took from it the exact same points I did about the biggest cities not being important in the soccer world cause they don’t have to be. Please do more videos like this one! A few points I took away: 1. Not surprised the newer clubs are doing better in attendance, like your interview with DannyT Radio, it’s easy to be the new toy/new club in the block and with the increasing popularity of the sports it’s easier to get attention that clubs formed in the 90s never did. 2. A. Yes there are exceptions around the world like Madrid. In Copa 90’s “Welcome to Berlin Motherf@cker” Berlin is probably the only capital in Europe to have a team never win a top flight league! Even at times Berlin never had a Bundasliga team. A lot of that comes with not having money, big city, but poor. B. LA is always going to be the exception particularly because of the enormous latino population, that is why they can have 2 mls clubs in the city and thrive! C. Atlanta United blew attendance records out the water cause they are really the first mls team to attract african americans into the sport in ways they weren’t before. The infusion of Atlanta culture and hip hop brought way way more fans into the team. 3. Even with the monopoly of the bigger clubs in the biggest cities starting to dominate and throw money around, they can never replicate the culture of smaller clubs in Europe. I think we saw that in “Welcome to Wrexham” Amazing video keep up the good work!

[@YankReport]

Thanks X

[@michaelhennessy6860]

Great vid

[@carltonharvey]

great vid but to be fair, Atlanta isn't a small market at all. the city population is small because many cities broke off from Atlanta, taking their population with them the metro area of Atlanta (as you kinda noted) is large and in roughly a decade will be larger than DC & Philly to become the 6th largest metro in the nation but other than that, your vid is pretty spot on and even the point about ppl moving to these cities and wanting a connection with their new home, is spot on. that's what's happened here in ATL

[@travisbonnette-kim5952]

It would be interesting to compare the population age of those growing American cities with better soccer attendance to the larger metropolitan areas with lower soccer attendance. It is reasonable to imagine that the towns with recent growth have seen that growth primarily with younger people, just out of college. Also, Younger people in the US are more likely to be soccer fans. I wonder if this plays a role in these smaller cities support of the soccer teams?

[@drod774]

Ben Olsen will guide the dynamo to the 2006-07 days!! But aside from that houston is a basketball and baseball town. That being said, the dynamo were smart to build the stadium in east downtown (an area booming with soccer fans this year b/c of the World Cup)!! It also helps that the most popular soccer bar in Houston is located near the stadium as well….oh and it’s also owned by the dynamo legend himself Brian Ching

[@YankReport]

I’ve been to the bar. Great spot!

[@ryanschatzberg4651]

The MLS teams that are performing best (for this argument, the teams that have the backing and loyalty of their local communities) are the ones where the owners empower their supporters. These are typically the teams in smaller markets where MLS is a bigger part of the city’s sporting landscape (St. Louis, Austin, Columbus + Cincinnati, Portland), whereas the worst performing teams tend to play in bigger cities like Chicago, New York City, Dallas, Houston, and Boston (New England) where the focus is on other teams.

[@victorramirez9986]

You present an interesting thesis. Perhaps another reason the big cities don't seem to have the same level of support for MLS as the smaller cities may be the result of a larger dilution of sports fan dollars. As an example, the LA region supports 2 teams in Football, baseball, basketball, hockey and soccer. Cities like Nashville and Portland don't face that same dilution.

[@kirancourt]

I like your thinking on this and you may be right

[@cesarespino1159]

i’ve always said Fort Worth is the perfect city for an MLS and USL team!!! I wonder if this can be applied to USL clubs like New Mexico, Locomotive and Louisville

[@Chambo1990]

the big thing that that you did not talked about is over in Europe a lot of the large capitals have lots of team. Take London which have 9 in the premier league alone where cites like Liverpool and Manchester have 2 big clubs then a couple of small clubs in the lower league or Leeds and Newcastle which are both big cites with only one club

[@irwinvasquez9858]

Orlando City has it all. They're on their way.

[@GTM9164]

First, I love you video ideas recently really taking a different angle than most channels. Secondly, Most of the big markets already have an identity in another sports team. NYC=Yankees, Chicago=Bull, Dallas=Cowboys, Boston=Redsox, Montreal =Canadiens etc. Most of those markets are also already over saturated with sports. New York has 3 NFL, 2 MLB, 3NHL and 2 NBA teams which are established in hindsight the idea MLS was going to easily break into the market is hilarious bc while it does have a large immigrant and soccer loving population why put a soccer game on TV with unknown/iffy rating when you can play NFL, MLB, NBA, or even college team that TV channels know exactly what the rating will look like. Much easier to sell ads based on the latter. In markets like Charlotte or Portland that isn't a problem bc of less sporting franchise call those cities home. Those market are probably MLS best chance at creating identity or culture.

[@danielhuynh9368]

I think LA can actually become a soccer town in identity. I dare say LA is the soccer capital of the US.

[@GTM9164]

@@danielhuynh9368 I think they can get 1 team to be big. They got a huge Latino population to support it if that catches fire then one of the team will do really well.

[@danielhuynh9368]

@@GTM9164 I think you understate El Traffico. I know it’s niche now but if it’s like that the first 5 years, imagine how big those fanbases will be in 30 something years?

[@MrZen08]

Sam - excellent video, and GTM - good points. I'd add that maybe football and baseball follow the industrial revolution equivalency. 1970's Dallas (oil), Pittsburg (steel), and 1960's Detroit (auto) [yes, apparently the Lions were actually good before the NFC/AFC merger], and maybe the Yankees pair with Real Madrid as the exceptions. I'd also say that soccer in the US seems to attract a more left-leaning fanbase (due to its global nature, maybe?), while football & baseball fans might be more conservative politically, hence Austin already having a better fanbase than Dallas. Not to mention Seattle, Portland, LA, Charlotte, and the like. Evidenced by football fans flipping out with the taking of the knee, whereas soccer jerseys & armbands support Pride month, for example.

[@raulfigueroa588]

LA is the soccer capital of the US. LAFC vs Galaxy rivalry is as real as it gets. LAFC is immensely popular and as long as they continue to make good moves will be the face of MLS

[@sunrae3971]

Berliner here. Its early (post WWII) sponsor money in Berlin. Berlin was not only divided after WWII for 40 Years, but also all the wealthy Industry of East Germany were either shifted to Russia (Reparation) or West Germany due to russian occupation. East German Companies like Siemens, Audi, Deutsche Bank, Carl Zeiss etc. even BMW (had factories in thuringa) were move to the West. Most of the Stuff ended in Southern Germany. So Clubs in the West have at 60 years leap of financial support, because economic only stabilized in the late 2000s in the east to some degree.

[@RealtorDanHayden]

Do they have avg attendance as a percentage of capacity?

[@choatican]

Spot on.

[@tuisverige]

Video idea: How the mls draft works. I personally do not know anything about it

[@YankReport]

Honestly I don't know much about it either. It's lost a lot of its relevance.

[@holdenessman8891]

Great video all around. I think soccer in the United States suffers from a couple of things that soccer in Europe doesn't, big the country is and like others have mentioned oversaturation of markets. Certain markets like dfw are held back by how big the metroplex is. The population of Dallas is 1.2 million but the dfw metroplex population is between 6.5-8 million people in an area that would have multiple teams in a European country and not every casual supporter is going to want to travel an hour plus to attend those games. MLS is better to target cities that lack sports teams in the NBA/NFL to get more casuals and build an identity with a team and a soccer specific stadium somewhere in the cities borders

[@davidday2373]

Some pushback... Atlanta and Seattle (and Toronto) are Major Markets, equivalent of "Capital Cities" of European countries. Seattle is a major hub, capital city of the Pac Northwest... Atlanta is the capital of the deep South.

[@Herb615]

Yeah. A lot of people don't realize Toronto is one of the largest cities in North America.

[@davidday2373]

@@Herb615 And as he points out, Toronto is a big spender too. So L.A. teams are not the lone exceptions.

[@cougsjohnson1]

Exactly - Rome & Seattle are the sam size Metro's 4.2 million each. Yet he had to say Seattle so his story wouldn't fall apart.

[@athosgomesfonseca]

Solid vid, thanks! And to add to the brief on Franco’s Madrid and to translate it into the modern era for supporters, think Manchester City, Paris St-Germain and Newcastle United-Franco simply saw back then the power of populist movements and how the emergence and emerging football culture could be appropriated for the purpose of sports washing. That said, the first instance of this corruption is likely reserved for the same period, albeit a few years earlier in Colombia who basically told FIFA to go suck it and started their own thing, which wasn’t unique to them, the Brits in the beginning more or less had the same attitude towards FIFA… At any rate, corruption in football and the utility of massive clubs to elites and nation states looking to wash their reputation has not been news for just shy of 100-years. For a long time, I failed to understand why amateur soccer struggled so hard and desperately against its professionalization but if ever there was a time to justify it, look no further than just about ALL objective soccer history. 🤣 In America, due to the nations relative wealth parity, business are seldom motivated to engage in the same manner of washing but perhaps we’re not too far from that point in time here neither.

[@yokabomb]

I actually think this argument has a lot of merit, especially when considering broader American sports culture. Many of the people moving to these migrant cities already have strong established fandom in the bigger American sports from their hometowns. Unwilling to relinquish the fandom of those teams but still wanting a connection to their new community, they gravitate to a sport their hometown doesn’t have or one not ingrained that that community (most commonly soccer). Big cities in the north already are so entrenched in the teams that already existed prior to mls coming in that they just don’t really have room for a new team to enter their lives for the most part. However, Los Angeles is the exception to this group because besides basketball, they really haven’t had a consistent presence in the other sports due to teams moving out, and recently back in. This combined with the higher Hispanic population compared to other big cities, create quite the soccer fandom. As for the most successful teams that you mentioned, the fandom definitely has something to do with not having another professional sports team, lacking all 4 major American sports, or at least lacking a strong historical connection with the existing pro teams. The best example of this I think is Atlanta, the existing teams have a pretty poor reputation, so a new soccer team playing in the cities new stadium creates a lot of buzz. As the mls becomes more popular the teams without other pro teams in the area will definitely have the strongest support

[@travisbonnette-kim5952]

If you’re moving from one metropolitan area to another, it is likely that you would continue to support the sports teams from the previous Metropolitan area (especially if you grew up in those metropolitan areas) so, the football baseball, and basketball teams from your old town would continue to have your loyalty. However, since soccer does not have a long history in the US, supporting the soccer team in your new city You would be a good way to connect to that community while remaining loyal to the baseball or football or basketball team at you have always supported.

[@Patrick61804]

8:24 it isn’t exactly fair to use 2020 attendance though because the larger market cities had significantly more strict COVID rules

[@talknycfc719]

I truly believe once NYCFC open up there stadium in 2027 they will consistently sell it out

[@Patrick61804]

Another point is that it seems that NFL, NHL, and MLB fans follow the team they are from. MLS and the NBA tend to have fans based on the city they live in (regardless of where they were born)

[@davidday2373]

Born in So Cal, and the city I currently live in has MLS and NBA (and major College FB)... but LAFC and the L.A. Clippers (and USC Trojans) continue to be the teams that I most strongly support! Ha!

[@xman9963]

I will challenge LAFC fan base pound for pound against any club in MLS. At home and on the road. LAFC is supposed to play the galaxy at the coliseum this year. That should be insane. Hopefully this becomes something they do twice a year. Battling on neutral ground with an increased seating capacity. For one of if not the most watched rivalry in MLS. 🖤💛

[@mmmcounts]

Among American cities that don't yet have an MLS club- or any other pro sports team, for that matter- I'm going to call attention to Omaha, Nebraska (with part of the city being in Iowa too- and Iowa doesn't have pro sports either). It's a young city and state with a median age that's right in the Millennial range, it fills a geographic hole with regional rivalries that write themselves, and I fully expect that the fan base of this city would be Austin part 2. The city population is a little less than 500k while the metro is a little less than a million. You'd like for that to be a little higher, but Union Omaha is building a fan base and they're doing very well in USL League One. Maybe that will happen one day.

[@nicholasjagneaux]

Aside from the founding of the league, this is the most exciting time for MLS. The European leagues - excepting the EPL - have hit a ceiling. Meanwhile, the future for MLS is wide open. The 94 World Cup might have set the stage for the founding of the league, but WC 2026 is coming at the right moment to see the league explode.

[@danielhuynh9368]

I actually think the Euro leagues will hit a financial crisis at some point as the big clubs suck the small ones dry. I know people people complain about the Super League but there’s a reason it keep being brought up. The current pyramid is unsustainable.

[@ballakick9080]

When NYFC gets its own place their attendance will change.

[@YankReport]

It will be absolutely fascinating to see what happens when that stadium gets built. 2027 is a long ways away.

[@danielhuynh9368]

I hope so

[@WaterBurner_]

the attendance numbers aren't to Acurarate cause some teams play in NFL stadiums while teams like Dallas plays in a small stadium it should be by average percent of seats

[@Adamdidit]

I've made this same argument in terms of MLS expansion as well. The usual American sports mindset is to go huge and just try to capture what you can. A shotgun approach. The MLS strategy should be to look at this places with something to prove rather then just size. Instead of taking the very large areas like an Fransisco or Phoenix, go for Vegas or Sacramento. Or Kansas City Or Aan Diego. You may notice a pattern in the examples. I'm gonna give a shout out to Detroit though. I formerly had them on that list of lazy big city choices but their fans schooled me on the topic. Absolutely get a team there.

[@oyaml1211]

MLS should have gone for cities like Austin that have no Pro sports teams.

[@Adamdidit]

@@oyaml1211 Sure enough it's working out for them.

[@LewksLife]

I think this would be the perfect time for San Diego to get a MLS team. The city is probably the biggest city for youth development in America. And SD Loyal are starting to acquire these top tier youngsters. I say if we were to stay in the USL we would lose most of these youngsters to larger MLS teams but if we had a MLS team we could become one of the best developing cities in the nation.

[@lordd794]

San Diego, and Phoenix both need MLS teams.

[@alphaperez]

Makes a ton of sense that cities like Nashville and Portland would be able to cultivate a passionate fan base and the support from local leaders.

[@thepeopleslibrary9345]

And that Seattle is the most dominant team in the league the last decade. Big for a small city, with tons and tons of young single people moving their for the jobs brought by a technological boom, looking for something to do and not really liking the cultural connotations or high prices of NFL.

[@kevindatruth]

I would love for some more small market expansion for the MLS. I wish Buffalo would get a MLS team but that will never happen.

[@YankReport]

Rochester has so much soccer history

[@jacobim96able]

I think Tottenham we’re the first team from London to win a major European trophy in 1963 and 1972

[@youngbuck189]

It's always interesting to see capital clubs rarely dominated in the top leagues outside of Russia, Portugal, Ukraine, Spain, Netherlands, and only since Qatar investments, France. Berlin, Rome, Paris until very recently, have never had top clubs. Even in USSR, Moscow clubs were not the best clubs, Dynamo Kyiv being the top club in USSR, a then regional capital. Even in the Prem, where multiple capital clubs are successful, they do not dominate their leagues but are merely one of several top clubs.

[@joncowley7185]

Y you didn't mention that cities like Austin have no other major league sports teams

[@unnamedshadow1866]

I don't think it will repeat. Specially with how Companies work now. Back in the Industrial Revolution, it was about either being close to the resource you are extracting or close to the coast to ship it. Nowadays that's different. Manufacturing has evolved, now distance is not that much of a problem. The Largest CIty in the World is no longer close to the coast like Tokyo, its not Chongqing located deeper in Chinese Territory. Also right now the World is about Banking and Tech Industries. And if you check, many clubs are already owned by Financial Firms or Chairman's of Tech Related Companies. This means, that it is now these type of Companies that will invest in Football. So where are these Companies located? On some of the largest urban congregations in the World. London, New York, Los Angeles, Tokyo, etc. Let's remember that it took almost 100 years for Clubs to be fully established. This means we are just starting this process, it started in the 2000's when Tech CEO's or Financial Groups starting taking over clubs. So we will see the change in 30-50 years. By then i am sure many clubs in the biggest cities of the world will be powerful and competitive and even win big competitions. History won't repeat in the USA. Since generally the biggest cities are now the ones that have the biggest clubs. Sure, some teams play in a far off suburb. But the big clubs or the ambitious clubs aim to have a Stadium located near the Downtown of said big city.

[@grahamroberts2893]

Working class game in working class cities it is a simple games needing minimal equipment.

[@welshwonderkids6975]

Please do a video on Ryan Reynolds club. Wrexham AFC ' Welcome to Wrexham ' #wrexhamfx

[@jasperredican4987]

I think it’s also important to recognize that there is an anti-soccer stigma in the US that we’re trying to shake off. It’s been seen as a sissy sport or just something that Americans don’t play. Given that, I think the rate at which it’s growing is exceptional and it’s no doubt that cities are benefitting from having soccer in them

[@danielhuynh9368]

I know it’s been said since the 70’s, but I think soccer eventually becomes the most popular sport in America. I just think people in the 70s were off by 60 something years lol

[@thomasopp9104]

@@danielhuynh9368 haha yeah, I just think it happens really slowly, almost imperceptibly, until you zoom out far enough, like you said. I don't personally think it'll overtake american football or basketball in terms of popular appeal -- college football/basketball and the NFL and NBA are massive -- but it can be a very respectable third and do just fine. We started a league from scratch 27 years ago as a condition of hosting a world cup. It's just nutty to think about 1996 to now, all the development that's taken place

[@danielhuynh9368]

@@thomasopp9104 Agree with all your points. MLS has survived in total of 4 to 5 spring football league in the years since 1996. That league was on the verge of bankruptcy in the early 2000s and yet, we could be at 32 teams by the World Cup. I really think soccer can overtake football eventually. Truth is numbers don’t lie. Football participation is down across the board and will continue to swing down as we learn more about CTE. There’s gonna be a talent drop at some point. The product is suffering now with the recent poor tackling. MLS has an advantage a lot of leagues don’t. New car smell. The NBA had its chance to overtake the NFL in the 80s and 90s with Jordan and recently LeBron. It hasn’t. A lot of Americans are unfamiliar with soccer but that gives an opportunity to create a new audience. As far as the NBA, I think the audience has kinda been established domestically. And most of the NBA’s growth is gonna be international at this point. I think during the 2040s, MLS will begin to hit its stride and will start to mount a challenge against the NFL/NBA especially as we see the full consequences of CTE on football.

[@martinruiz4029]

San Diego will be the Barcelona of the MLS

[@YankReport]

Mes que un club.

[@QuantumNoir]

That'd be interesting. It's supposed to be next in line for a MLS team. Naturally, this will compete against LA teams.

[@martinruiz4029]

@@QuantumNoir I mean the similarities with the Barcelona weather, city , quality of life, they should aspire to play the same way

[@wolf6462]

Never

[@Bdbabsfbbs]

I will point out that if you look at Latin America this pattern simply does not repeat. São Paulo and Rio have most of the biggest clubs in Brazil, Argentina's big clubs are pretty much all in Buenos Aires. Chile's biggest are in Santiago. Mexico's top teams are in the biggest cites. Also it is likely that part of the problem in the biggest cities in the US is that they already have many other, more beloved sports franchises than their MLS clubs. How many teams does NYC have in total? The dynamics of how football teams' support works today is WAY different than the 19th century dynamics that research describes.

[@YankReport]

The Latin America discussion is interesting. I have a feeling it has something to do with infrastructure and logistics. This is just a hypothesis b/c I've not looked into it, but I have been driven through the mountains of Medellin and I can tell you that traveling from one city to another is not quite as easy in some parts of the world as it is in Europe and America. And resources aren't quite as easily dispersed. Many of the countries in Latin America are geographically huge and feature some formidable terrain to get through.

[@Bdbabsfbbs]

@@YankReport Yeah (I'm from Latin America, I happened on your video by chance). Honestly I feel it is more likely the model the researchers decribe is a specifically European one; I don't really see it in the US. Soccer is not a "working class phenomenon" in most countries today, and I would hardly describe the MLS as a "working man's league". It's a middle class thing. I think it's more so about cities in the US that maybe had "room" (psychologically and literally) and appetite for a team; the bit about "emerging cities" in your video I think is on point. If you're from NY, did the like 10 teams they had already not cut it? (I also lived in the US for a while). I think LA is an exception because for a while they lacked an NFL franchise, and also cause it's full of Latinos. Edit: In Latin America, some clubs do have that industrial past, but many don't. There are some more recent ones, or some that are linked to universities (that's kind of common in the region. And we also have some pretty new, MLS like clubs in fast growing cities. There's a bit of everything. Also a lot of "company clubs"; clubs that exist thanks to the backing of a large corporate group.

[@CyberMartian890]

London?????

[@austinkowalski5512]

Im a big Detroit City Football club fan! Very passionate supporters in the USL.

[@cougsjohnson1]

How is Seattle considered a small city when you call Rome a Big City? They both have 4.2 Million people. Seattle would be in the Top-10 biggest cities, if it were located in Europe. Therefore if you look at the Top-5 Teams in MLS attendance 3 out of 5 are from Big Cities.

[@YankReport]

Seattle has less than 1 million people. Rome has 2.8 million. I think you are looking at metros. When looking at metros it's important to consider area of the metro. Rome's metro area is considered a little less than 500 square miles. Seattle's metro is over 5,000 square miles. Population densities are a bit different in the US. The Houston and Dallas metros, for instance, are geographically huge.

[@alexandervargas79]

@@YankReport The way sports are viewed here vs Europe is different. Teams here don't just represent the city but also the metro area. while in Europe they only represent the city. The Red Sox aren't just Bostons team, they are New Englands team. So it is fair to look at metro areas for US sports. Roma is marketed towards Rome residents. Sounders are marketed to Seattles metro residents. That's how MLS and owners look at it.

[@QuantumNoir]

I can see LA morphing into a top soccer city. 2 major MLS teams, population, resources and demographics .

[@michaelwalker7400]

One issue I have had with MLS is that depending on who is involved in certain cities, they get less or more restrictions placed on them. NYCFC and Inter Miami are the two teams that have been allowed to kick the can down the road on stadiums for years. But Columbus, which had an owner that intentionally drove down his attendance but was rewarded with an expansion team, has built two stadiums now and are still not viewed as important to the league as the new money coming in.

[@jesterbeats2898]

And columbus has basically been carrying the shit out of U.S soccer as if not for our culture here in columbus and the talent and chances that are given the youth the u.s soccer team wouldn't grow as much as it is now

[@davidgilbert7789]

Seattle is not a "new" soccer city.the Sounders have been around since 1974. From the old NASL, to the "A" league,to the USL, and finally to MLS, there has always been the Sounders. Plus Seattle isn't Small market, Over 4.5 million the the metro area! 12th largest media market, and growing! Not to mention, Seattle has the Seahawks, Mariners, Kraken, Storm, two minor league baseball teams and two WHL hockey teams.

[@jayh3283]

You cannot compare the growth of soccer in Europe to the USA. United States and Europe do not have the same sports culture nor do the sport function the same way. MLS clubs are franchises founded by billions, but is majorally owned and controlled by the league. That also includes players contracts. Furthermore, it's common for an MLS team to start off with good support for a few seasons before declining in attendance. Basically, the honeymoon period.

[@YankReport]

I do appreciate a well executed "furthermore"

[@donfrossa1432]

MLS should be 16 teams each conference, 30 Regular conference and 4 Inter conference games, the inter conference games should be position matched from last season, Example top 4E 🆚 top 4W, the conference winner should be the team that finished 1st 🥇 in each conference in regular league play, this would make every match very important, the playoffs should be a 16 team 4 groups of 4 UEFA Champions League format.

[@nicholasjagneaux]

I agree that MLS needs to be more creative in dividing up the burgeoning number of teams. It would give more teams something to play for, and increase fan interest.

[@donfrossa1432]

@@nicholasjagneaux yup 👍🏼

[@franciscolobato1520]

Lafc 🖤💛🖤💛

[@Good100]

Right from the start, American soccer can't replicate them exactly, because our pro soccer system is a top-down format modeled after our other domestic sports leagues, all of which were built to be professional from the start, with a few exceptions, like the original Philadelphia Athletic Club, for which the current unrelated Oakland Athletics were named. It's the same reason you can't make pro-rel work here, aside from distance. You don't have the decades of local amateur sports loyalty to help a team from, say, Peoria, Illinois, have the same money-making potential as a team from Chicago, Illinois. Maybe if they had started differently, they could make it work, but in America, you can't impose old world conventions on a new world culture. Granted, maybe I'm setting the bar for smaller cities too high by comparing Peoria and Chicago instead of, say, Portland and Chicago, but still, Portland is large enough to have the Timbers and the Trailblazers, so I have a hard time thinking of it as a smaller city. One thing that probably helps your point is the fact that attending MLS is way, way, cheaper than the big four leagues. The working class can actually afford to go see Atlanta United, but the Braves, Falcons, and Hawks will make your wallet hurt way worse.

[@davidday2373]

Los Angeles is the Sports Capitol. USC Trojans Football, UCLA Bruins Basketball, LAFC, Galaxy... sports typically not successful in Major Cities, yet L.A. is home to premiere teams in those sports. No to mention Olympic sports, Combat sports, Action sports... So Cal is Sports Mecca.

[@playedout148]

Amateur scholastic sports don't matter. They make money for the schools, that's it.

[@cougsjohnson1]

UCLA needs to keep protesting by not going to home games. I was proud of them for showing how mad they are for leaving the Conference of Champions by having less than 30,000 fans at their home opener. It's not too late do the right thing LA. Little 10 had two Top-25 teams while the Pac-12 had 7. Let the flyover states keep their own lame Conference The Big-2.

[@elooiii5129]

Discrepo en todo. 1- se llama fútbol. 2- Francia. Nada más. Saludos.

[@maximusilive4theking986]

#kleinout

[@Ky-tl8ps]

Lol left out the London clubs?

[@YankReport]

It's addressed in the video.

[@emdiar6588]

You can't count London clubs as ''big city'' clubs. They represent the borough of London in which they were formed, and as such, their success is still the result of a history of small town determination and dedicated support.

[@scpfoundation4602]

The short version of real Madrid and Franco is Madrid was seen as a club to be modelled by a team full of pro facismo and a symbol of might so to insure that Madrid wins he made sure best players in other teams got sanctioned or had to pay ridiculous fins etc till this day small number of Madrid fans are pro-fscisim grupos

[@zorororonoa3626]

Inter Milan is greater than Man U, AC Milan and Juventus

[@alexandervargas79]

lol

[@ryanwieckowski3402]

Detroit would love an MLS franchise, and the blue collar tribalism would allow it too grow.

[@YankReport]

Detroit would be an interesting one, but it seems like the league is targeting the South West right now. San Diego and Vegas are the big rumors. You have to imagine Phoenix is high on the list as well. If you look at a map of the layout of the current MLS teams across the country you can spot why. Most of the teams are located in the east. The California teams have to do a great deal of traveling when heading out of state. More teams in the east would probably lessen travel costs and allow for some geographical rivalries to pop up.

[@cliffrusso1159]

@@YankReport No thanks, Detroit has a club. We don't want MLS.

[@nnoromprosper3738]

I'm loving the growing love for the sport in the US, but when are you all going to finally call it Football and not the S word.

[@DynamicUnreal]

There’s already a sport called Football here, and whether we are fans of it or not we grew up hearing the word repeatedly associated to that sport. I don’t have a problem calling it football, but it’s confusing to hear the word football from an American accent and not think about the sport where men line up at a line of scrimmage and smash into each other. In Spanish, Football is called Fútbol even though Fút and Bol are not Spanish words.

[@YankReport]

Pie Pelota

[@joshuah.6095]

@@YankReport Balompié

[@alexandervargas79]

Italians don't say football either, they say Calcio. It's not a big deal for us calling it soccer.

[@wolf6462]

Cry

[@anysort]

Brother! I find it disrespectful to talk about football history and going deep into the history and call it ‘soccer’!!!! “The first socccer club “?????? You must be ashamed! In the name of all Europeans that watch this video you must apologise! I find it very heartbreaking! Stop saying soccer! American football it’s not football, but if you guys want to call it football, that’s okay for us Europeans, we are calling it football, even we don’t think it’s having something to do with the football. Buy you must respect our culture! If we call it football… you must call it football as well! Don’t call it soccer! That’s disrespectful! If talking about MLS referring it as Soccer, that’s fine for us, but you talk about Europeans teams and European football and keep calling it soccer, STOP it ! Now how many of you wanted him to apologise, give a like to this comment, if we reach 10 k likes , he must do a video and apologise

[@YankReport]

Lol.

[@wolf6462]

Cry loser

[@Sw3rvinvargas]

XD WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU LOL

[@thehutch1674]

Bro you have to be like 12 to make a comment like this Plus the video has 10k views and you asking for 10k likes?? LOL yeah good luck with that

[@MadCityCollector]

“Linguistically creative students at the University of Oxford in the 1880s distinguished between the sports of “rugger” (rugby football) and “assoccer” (association football). The latter term was further shortened to “soccer” (sometimes spelled “socker”), and the name quickly spread beyond the campus.”

[@joespradlin5160]

@legionfc