Yascha Mounk on defeating identity politics

How to battle identity politics and defend liberal values of universalism, free speech, and open inquiry
reason.com/podcast/2023/10/04...
________
My guest today is Johns Hopkins professor Yascha Mounk, the founder of the online magazine Persuasion and the author of the important new book The Identity Trap: A Story of Ideas and Power in Our Time.
The Identity Trap explains how identity politics and social justice discourse have come to dominate contemporary discussions of just about everything, analyzes their negative influence on society, and shows how to confront and defeat them in the name of liberal values of free expression and open inquiry.
Yascha was a prime mover behind the 2020 open letter on "justice and open debate" in Harper's magazine and is one of the most powerful defenders of free speech and the marketplace of ideas at work today.
This interview took place at the Reason Speakeasy, a live, unscripted monthly conversation held in New York City with outspoken defenders of free speech and heterodox thinking. Go here for information about upcoming events.

[@davidson46100]

Liberal bigotry towards non liberals is worse then racial bigotry.

[@neilstone1788]

That's a bold claim

[@neonwired4978]

@@neilstone1788 it's a stupid claim by someone who doesn't seem to understand the words used

[@Dayglodaydreams]

What do you mean?

[@abramgaller2037]

The first thing to do about identity politics is "not believe!"

[@nobodynoone2500]

Which this guy clearly does not do.

[@neilstone1788]

Explain

[@java4653]

It doesn't exist, so that's not hard at all.

[@user-jr7cx9zm1e]

Buy this man's book, you won't regret it.

[@Tunick1902]

Mounk is wonderful. The moderator is sub par.

[@ratonsito2836]

Interesting stuff. I like Mounk's explanation of the theoretical sources better than Rufo's.

[@java4653]

LOL. There's no such thing as "Identity Politics". It's literally just a propaganda term.

[@davesmith4110]

The key difference is that Rufo is a blogger who figured out how to grift as GOP operative back when he was a NIMBY in Seattle, Mounk is an actual intellectual historian who is not behold to a political party..BIG difference...

[@nycgweed]

Like how he uses a picture when he had hair

[@TIm_Bugge]

The function of the 'Right' is not simply to 'counter-balance' the 'Left', but instead functions as a valve, asking ''why should I follow you?" The burdon of persuasion is always born by those who demand special status in their claim to common resources. If, on any issue, you find youself unpersueded by such a claim, you are, for the intents and purposes of the claim, functioning as an agent of the right, politically speaking.

[@oremfrien]

The idea that the Right is defined by a questioning of authority is laughably absurd. The Right is defined by a respect for hierarchies, traditions, customs, and authorities.

[@TIm_Bugge]

@@oremfrien Thanks for your comments. I agree that "The Right is defined by a respect for hierarchies, traditions, customs, and authorities." I don't believe that "the Right is defined by a questioning of authority". Since I forgot to note the timestamp of the point in the video that I was commenting on I'll try to improve my point independently of it: The principle I'm trying to illustrate is that novel claims on common resources require novel justifications. Generally speaking, in a democracy any idea that requires a substantial change to hierarchies, traditions, and customs should bear the burden of persuasion. VERY generally speaking, the Left proposes changes to the status quo and the Right resists until it is persuaded. Therefore it is false to demand or expect the Right to bear the burden to persuade the Left to 'not' change something. Hence, "The function of the 'Right' is NOT SIMPLY to 'counter-balance' the 'Left', but instead functions as a valve, asking ''why should I follow you?"

[@TIm_Bugge]

(cont.) Of course, when a 'leftist' person is unpersuaded to make a change to the status quo, or someone on the 'right' is proposing a change, they do so in special contradiction to their general political identity.

[@oremfrien]

@@TIm_Bugge OK. You're talking about Chesterton's Fence and I would agree that the Right (unless we are talking about the Reactionary Right) is generally on the side of objecting to the removal of Chesterton's Fence until provided evidence.

[@andrewthomas695]

Identifying with the left or the right, and trying to argue one is correct, is both morally and intellectually bankrupt , mostly because history shows that both end up taking humanity to very dark places. The virtuous left and the virtuous right are both deadly illusions. Woke is merely the left's version of the far right. Both are ugly abominations.

[@adamjuneau6287]

you mos pulled a bait and switch on me.

[@kevinadams8156]

I listen to a couple debates today before this. Both times i left thinking both had good points. This interview didn't do that for me. The only time he said anything i agreed with was when he critiqued how identity politics have got things wrong.

[@neilstone1788]

What debates?

[@java4653]

There's no such thing as "Identity Politics", lol. Holy moly you are easily controlled. No wonder we started & lost in Iraq so easily - people like you

[@java4653]

​@@neilstone1788They think everything is a debate, not understanding that's a formal affair and more theater than actual value anyways.

[@ryancormack6934]

Old arguments. A lively debate would be 100x more interesting.

[@ablestationfoxtrot8037]

Good

[@monkeyperson9392]

how about defeating identity politics in Israel first? then come to our countries and we talk about it.

[@Justin_Beaver564]

Good luck with that

[@Slavolko]

They are exempt, and if you say that is hypocritical, then you are a [insert insult].

[@josephahner3031]

Holding an individual Israeli accountable for his government's sins is as stupid as walking up to a random person in New York City and blaming him for the Indian Wars.

[@Justin_Beaver564]

@@josephahner3031 I think it misses the mark. Every traditional kingdom in Europe and Asia has been based on identity. Identity isn't the problem so much as tribalism.

[@monkeyperson9392]

@@josephahner3031 I meant they should flood Israel first with african immigrants and then watch how well that goes before saying we have to do it.

[@kevindavis3333]

I have read a few of his articles. Can't say I can agree with him on some topics.

[@neilstone1788]

Why?

[@mjpich]

Monk, only recently coming to my limited attention, to pique my interest, I'm glad this interview was available. Always informed, wide ranging representations of the people and ideas we live with. Always dependable Reason. Another good, helpful hour (or so) with bonus of good humor.

[@java4653]

There's no such thing as "Identify Politics", LOL.

[@anyfriendofkevinbaconisafr177]

The dissembling is legend!

[@KnutLiberty]

Will you interview Bret Weinstein?

[@ledaswan5990]

Why? Bret Weinstein is a 3rd rate ex college professor. Just as productive to interview your plumber.

[@Louis-wp3fq]

Of course they won't.

[@davesmith4110]

Bret's been too busy grifting and becoming a right wing millionaire...him getting "cancelled" was the greatest thing in his life...otherwise he would have remained an obscure biologist instead of a horse paste salesman and trump simp...@@Louis-wp3fq

[@Dayglodaydreams]

Robin di Angelo has admitted to not having Black friends.

[@aptkeyboard3173]

This video has to be being throttled by KZbin.

[@java4653]

LOL, the Paranoid Delusions of the War Losing Right.

[@mattcarman855]

Awesome, I just bought his book and have been listening to lots of pods lately with him selling his book, he's great and super smart, I'm a big fan...But I'm mostly happy he decided to shave his head, I've been telling him in my living room for a while now 🤪 Hit it with a razor for the next round IMO, but I'm def clearly biased 🤓

[@bryanutility9609]

Babble word salad. This charlatan has nothing to say.

[@Olivera10unids]

Milei 2023🗽🗽

[@TheWhitehiker]

CRT was attacked simply BECAUSE it only presented its narrow negative view of US culture and history; Mounk seems to miss this. Florida was right to have a balanced replacement for CRT.

[@neonwired4978]

lol, leave it racist Floridians to argue that there are positives to slavery. it's not exactly a 'view' it's what happened that people need to come to terms with regardless of how uncomfortable it makes them.

[@java4653]

LOL. This isn't remotely true. No wonder you folks cheered on the War on Terror and then ran away when it got hard.

[@TheWhitehiker]

Not even remotely what the FL improvement to WOKE has developed; you need to come to terms yourself with the FL reality.@@neonwired4978

[@davesmith4110]

the problem is that Florida's "balance" is an authoritarian state control that limits and freedom to intellectual explore topics...

[@TheWhitehiker]

No, this is a balanced replacement for the Woke anti-American and unhistorical creeds.@@davesmith4110

[@hanswurst5426]

Just for the record … he is currently accused of … rape😐

[@jcheroske]

The host is one of the most annoying people I've ever seen facilitate an interview. If he would have just kept quiet the talk would have been so much better. His constant interrupting just to inflate his ego is 🤬

[@TheWhitehiker]

Mounk sees sympathetic to the neo-Marxist etc. misconceptions. Otherwise, he gives definitions and explanations that are hardly new.

[@jeremyogrizovich3247]

These guys are not the guys.

[@DarkHorseSki]

If you can call socialism, "socialism", then you should be able to call woke, "woke." Being afraid to use words means we have less reason to listen to any of your words.

[@java4653]

Watching conservative war losing war cheerleaders try and think is so cute. Logic & grammar are a foreign language to you.

[@DarkHorseSki]

@@java4653 Seeing leftists desperately trying to pretend they are not losing to reality is just hilarious. If you actually knew how to employ "logic", we might be worried.

[@keto0303]

Last time I checked, the pendulum is certainly swinging to us. You should take notice.@@java4653

[@killa3x]

Call it wokeism Monk!

[@java4653]

LOL. Found the Bush War Lover Who Ran Away to Trumpism - why do you hate America?

[@bizzwoofer]

"Johns" Hopkins. What a silly name that is...

[@kwgronau]

There is reason for the "s." Though some mistakenly refer to the man or his institutions as “John” Hopkins, the “s” in his name belongs there: He was named for his great-grandmother, Margaret Johns, the daughter of Richard Johns, who owned a 4,000-acre estate in Calvert County, Maryland.

[@wes10gaard]

It’s not your Hopkins is it now!?

[@nobodynoone2500]

This creep is talking out of both sides of his mouth. Don't give people airtime just because they "agree" with you on one hot-button issue. This is the crap that made me unsub to begin with.

[@stevenw5013]

On the other hand, engaging with people who don't agree with you on everything keeps you sharp and saves you from being trapped in an echo chamber

[@neilstone1788]

​@@stevenw5013exactly