Yes, Some Modern .303 Rimjams Unless You Treat It Properly

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As a followup to an earlier vid (link below) where I showed that milspec .303 doesn't actually suffer rimjams / rimlock due to the design of the rim, here's some commercial ammo (S&B) that suffers it badly. And how to deal with it. As demonstrated with a very nice 1915 dated Lee-Enfield SMLE Mk.III.
Earlier vid: • Why Lee-Enfield Rimjam...

[@MilesStratton]

I am starting to wonder if bloke just lives on that range in a sleeping bag with an SMLE...

[@quillyboyancrew1017]

Miles!!

[@johnm3907]

Dreaming about rimjams

[@cryhavoc999]

You say it like its a bad thing???

[@BUTCH0120]

What happens between a man and his SMLE at the range stays at the range.

[@genericpersonx333]

What fascinates me to no end is how companies keep insisting on making changes to bullets when guns have to be designed around the bullet, not the other way around. Especially perplexes me is when they do it with military ammunitions that were not widely adopted for use by civilian firearms so the majority of bullets will be being put through the military weapons. Madness.

[@myparceltape1169]

Something to do with being able to claim, "New, Original", as seen on many advertisements.?

[@deepbludreams]

This is why I run the 50s Indian SMLEs in historicalish matches, 7.62x51, no rim, phsyicaly impossible to have this happen at all, and without the rim dragging on the one below, runs smoother on top of this.

[@copuis]

*facepalm* an issue i've had, with a stupid simple workaround I'd not thought of cheers!!

[@vaclav_fejt]

Still, it isn't optimal as it basically renders the clip mannlicherily asymetric. Having said that, that is a really good way to deal with a problem like this, unless you have a lathe and a lot of patience. (Would turning the proper chamfer on the rims fix it? I don't know if there's enough material.)

[@GenScinmore]

Good vid, glad you addressed modern ammo. i found that if you push down on the front of the cartridges when jammed, that the rims pop up a bit more positively.

[@JDRhoads09]

Got your link to this video and makes perfect sense now. Thank you very much!

[@BlokeontheRange]

Glad it helped!

[@MontanaGunGuy]

I use that same method for my 1944 Long Branch and 1953 RFI No1 MkIII, awesome video and love the channel!

[@windogendoors7566]

Very well put together video on a good topic. Nice work.

[@philiprourke7732]

So good! I will try that, I use PPU ammunition, which is cheap but surprisingly consistent, and the only thing I can get where I am. I load my clips in the traditional way, first 5 go in and Ive never looked to see if it will jam on the top round, I always load 10, but I alwas look at the top round after I shove in the second clip and it jams every time, soI fiddle with it to get it correctly in place. The action of shoving in the second clip must sort out any potential jam at the top of the first clip , because once Isort out the top round of the second clip, it feeds perfectly..its a no 4 mk 2 in exceptional nic. Been wanting to have a rack at a mad minute...but haven't because of this problem...now I know the cure..so thankyou!

[@mojones1084]

AH! Answer to my problem! I️ had recently bought some charger clips at a local gun show and was so excited to finally charge my Enfield properly,but then I️ kept getting rimjams. Can’t wait to get home and try the new way of loading my clips. Thanks Bloke!

[@m2hmghb]

Thanks for the videos bloke, I need the distraction right now. Quite interesting video.

[@geoechidna]

Winchester white-box .303 has this problem. Loading the clips the "Brit" way almost guarantees a rimlock, and sadly even staggering them produces this effect when just pushing down normally. A way around it that generally works is both staggering the rounds AND lifting up the top round via the tip of the bullet and pushing down at angle (basically like a Mosin clip). Works about 95% of the time.

[@westcoaster7.62]

Thanks for this, so glad to see it's not just me.

[@emu4286]

This video inspired me to try to intentionally induce rimlock in my SMLE using some original WWII-era .303 I've been keeping around for collecting purposes, and I can confirm that the rim bevel on that old ammo really does help avoid it - give the bolt a good smack, and the top round's rim will just override the round below it. However, I should note that if I pushed the bolt forward too gently and slowly the lower round would sometimes try to double-feed, but that's likely because the magazine's front feed lips are pretty worn (not to mention the magazine isn't matching to the rifle).

[@unhippy1]

I used various LE's extensively as hunting weapons....never had a problem with a rim lock but never used a stripper clip to load (scopes would have prevented clip loading even if i had wanted to)....always hand loaded the magazine out of the gun....if needed i carried a couple of spare mags for when i needed rapid reloads during culling shoots.

[@john-paulsilke893]

My manual of arms was always to charge and then jam my thumb down right after. I didn’t know why I was told to do this and simply did it as part of the loading process. I learned later and then use a girlfriend’s nail polish and did exactly as you just demonstrated.

[@stevendee2831]

This ammo is exactly why I used to stack all my ammo S and B was the only thing we had available in our area

[@ReidMerrill]

I wish something like the Siamese Mauser were more common so we could see if the Lee-Enfield is just uniquely good at handling rimmed rounds or if Mosin-Nagants are just uniquely bad.

[@maxximus2012]

I’ve yet to have any rim jams with my fazakerly no.4, the mag I had though was causing modern .303 soft points to nose dive and mash on he relatively steep feed ramp; had to tweet the feed lips with some needle nose pliers and she feeds like a dream now

[@VelocityMoviesInc]

That shirt and that hat go well together.

[@conradswadling8495]

yep, the mk7z was just fine though

[@dermotrooney9584]

Lovely, thanks again. I've had the same problem with that S&B ammo (how do they get away with that?) but my bent old clips couldn't do the staggery trick so had to hand feed. Plyers to the rescue.

[@patriks_surplus_kitchen5251]

Hi Rooney, if you need "New" / Better Charger (Clips) look on Ebay there you get Arsenal ones with a good deal in Australia :-D Here is the Link www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=38margate&_armrs=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xclip.TRS0&_nkw=clip&_sacat=0

[@dermotrooney9584]

Patrik Tasai - cheers man. I'll check em out.

[@patriks_surplus_kitchen5251]

No problem glad i can help. I already have about 60pcs+ of Chargers on my own ^^

[@HiveQu33n]

Long Branch Enfields are notoriously well-made, so it doesn't surprise me that it tool issue with out-of-spec cartridges.

[@ghalmarraz8706]

A shooting trip to Itlia, some blokes have all the luck

[@patriks_surplus_kitchen5251]

Hi and thx for sharing that good Video about that object. I also have sometimes the Rim Jams with S&B and also with the PPU ammo but with the PPU a little less. What i have mentioned / learned is that if the Rim jam's occur quiet frequently you should check the Magazine... in therms of how the Lips are bend... do the correspond with the Milling in the receiver... is the Spring strong enough... are the Follower lips in the Correct Positions or are the bend in the wrong way due to USE... ALSO really important and most people forgot and i have learned Last week on a New Savage Enfield i purchased is if the Holding Lips on the Rear end of the Magazine are not the right way the Mag doesn't Fit right and sometimes your Mag has some play and that's not good for feeding the Ammo the right way :-D Hope i can help some people out with my comments here.... maybe i will make some Videos about this and other problems ^^

[@patriks_surplus_kitchen5251]

PS: A question to You Mike, i remember that i read in the Ian skennerton book or on a other source (i actually cant remember where exactly) that the Magazines where "originally" developed to prevent the Rim Jam due to the way they worked?! Can you confirm that ?! would be really interesting^^ kind regards patrik

[@patriks_surplus_kitchen5251]

Thank you and thank you on remind me on your video about that :-D

[@tangero3462]

Have you ever tried loading 30-40 Krag brass as 303? For some reason or another they put the correct chamfer on the rim for the Krag on the brass I've seen. I've heard from a friend that it works decently

[@minutemanqvs]

Ok, I understand where the green paint on the P14 comes from now :p

[@SPAZTICCYTOPLASM]

I use the same Sellier and Bellot ammo in a BSA NO4 mk1 FTR. I load clips the military way, and if i get a rim lock i just force over it. It's really not that big a deal. Just hammer the bolt forward and it's fine. It's not fine in my P14 though, that will rimlock and you gotta put a finger or two in to fiddle the rim over the other case. The p14 mauser style magazine doesn't like the rimmed ammo. I don't know if you guys have winchester, but winchester does have the bevel on the back and it will ride over in pretty much all cases even in my p14. Same with Remington. I believe cyka and blyat use some other cases for their ammo and don't bother chamfering them. Not that i mind, it's the cheapest 303 around, that wasn't sitting around for 50 years.

[@alanpassat6759]

Good Stuff S&B. The .308 brass is great. People say the shoulder is wrong on the .303B, but it's a rimmed cartridge, so I don't care.

[@alanpassat6759]

Bloke on the Range Precisely. I hadn't given the shoulder on S&B .303B a seconds thought. Blame this bloke. He sounds drunk, but he has concerns. Merry Christmas from Blighty! kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4S8f6eHnKaNrJY

[@alanpassat6759]

Bloke on the Range My suspicions too! He should buy a nice pair of Brogues and go for a pint and stop worrying about the shoulders of Czech .303 brass before it is even fired. Life's too short for that kind of worry!

[@alanpassat6759]

Bloke on the Range Exactly! You would almost think the idiots who designed .303 knew what they were doing in choosing a rimmed case with a sharp taper! None of this tight tolerance rimless bottle neck headspacing malarky! Just pop a neck on the brass, dangle the round off the end of the chamber, chew the chamber out cheap and fast and make it big for some of that mud stuff that just might appear in a trench. .303 British in an Enfield. As right as a pair of Brogues, a nice pint,a cup of tea and fish and chips. PS. I used to own an old Suffolk Punch Lawnmower the exact same colour as you use on your clips.

[@rimsdad]

I stack each one in front of the lower witch leaves the top level and the bottom on an upward angle never had a feed problem this way! Then again never have this prob on my Mosin!

[@UKMilitaria]

Could you take this modern ammo, and put the bevel on the rim yourself with some sand paper or something to help stop the rim jam issue?

[@stevonkoch8002]

just inherited this gone and it jammed right away. do you have video loading the stripper clips? this is a bit advanced for a noobie

[@siestatime4638]

Yes, my Finnish Mosin M39... AARRGH!!

[@HypocriticYT]

rim jam makes the lid stick.

[@BadlanderOutsider]

Would it be possible to use some sandpaper or a grinder and such and put a bevel on the modern ammo?

[@BlokeontheRange]

If you really could be bothered and could do it evenly enough, no reason why not

[@starfleethastanks]

Have you used PPU .303? If so, do you find it has the same problem?

[@MattFieldPhoto]

I reload with PPU .303 brass, and don't have any issues with rimjam on either of my Enfield's YMMV

[@TeamRetroWorld]

the PPU stuff does not have the indent on the rim that he talks about. So yes, rimjams do happen.

[@TeamRetroWorld]

seems to be the 'case' a lot with PPU stuff. still the best modern-production ammo around for old stuff without a doubt.

[@BUTCH0120]

Bloke, I have a No. 4 Mk 1 that I am having a devil of time loading from the charging clips. The rounds won't go in. And when they do, they are all cattywumpis and do not feed properly. Is this a magazine issue, or (more liley) am I doing something wrong? I am using PPU ammo.

[@BlokeontheRange]

You're probably using crappy Italian metric chargers. Are they by any chance marked G M I, or G M II?

[@BUTCH0120]

@@BlokeontheRange GM1. I just ordered new old stock Australian military issue; they are marked KF Mk 4. Do the magazine lips need to be "tuned" to ensure the rounds feed properly into the chamber? The magazine follower also hangs up. She is a lovely English Rose, but I would like her to be more than a single shot rifle. Thank you for your swift response. .Regards.

[@dbmail545]

I never knew why 7.62 x54r rims were beveled. Doesn't prevent Mosins from rim jams.

[@GryphonIndustrial]

I know this is 2 years old but whatever. The mosin was designed with a cartridge interrupter. If your interrupter is in spec and someone hasn't loosened the screw than it should segregate the top round from the rest of the magazine and make it impossible for the rounds to rim lock.

[@australianmade2659]

I load just like that as I was using S&B. I’ve now bought PPU. Does anyone have any thoughts on PPU? I’ve heard it’s a better casing to reload but don’t know about the rim jam.

[@australianmade2659]

Bloke on the Range tha you very much.

[@patriks_surplus_kitchen5251]

Hi, Yeah PPU Brass is definitely better for Reloading. In therms of the Rim jam its a little Better but in my opinion and experience with it does it mostly Depends on the Magazine, the Follower with the Spring and how the Magazine Lips etc. are corresponding / work in you Enfield :-D

[@patriks_surplus_kitchen5251]

PS: in some Enfield the PPU Ammo runs better in therms of accuracy...? (maybe also a thing of chamber fit?! Neck size) can anyone confirm that either? it looks like the Bullets of the PPU ammo is slightly Larger in Diameter?! so on a quiet shoot out barrel you can have some luck to shoot another thousand rounds or so... BUT keep in mind if you change the ammo you have to adjust your sight for the "new" ammo (point of impact changes sometimes really dramatic) that's my own experience ^^

[@lukehavard7081]

I have a problem where the bolt rides completely over the last round in my enfield. Any idea why? Thanks.

[@MogensBeltoft]

Is the magazine spring strong enough? Is the follower plate correctly formed?

[@lukehavard7081]

Bloke on the Range thanks

[@MidnightdoesWoT]

That’s pretty much how you load mosin chargers lol

[@MidnightdoesWoT]

that is quite true. i struggle with my own clips staying aligned properly

[@fastcat01]

have you ever used Pakistani ammo?

[@kazoolordhd6591]

manlicher clips

[@jonathanevans4610]

why not 10 round chargers?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Lots of reasons: large, bulky, prone to damage (e.g. being bent if you fall on them), they need big pouches, they'd have a significant curve on them (and thus be tricky and expensive to make) and you'd struggle to get the rounds out of them due to friction. They're stiff enough with only 5 in them.

[@EfftupSmith]

@@BlokeontheRange and with 5 round chargers, you can top it off after you've fired a few.

[@larrythorn4715]

The Enfield works as it's designed when using the ammo its designed for? Shocking....not. I hate the Enfield because its not a Mauser...but the Enfield is an excellent rifle.

[@HypocriticYT]

my mod. 1895 in 35 WCF can easily get rim jam.

[@eatthisvr6]

i live not far from radway green and know somebody who works there lol

[@gatlingbert]

303 was developed for use in the Lee metford rifles that had to be loaded one by one in the magazine. Rifles loaded with Stripper clips even with original 303 WW1-2 ammo have rim jams.

[@gatlingbert]

You have a rimjam at 8:50 and still you say "no they dont rimjam" !!

[@JohnyG29]

bert rob I suggest you watch the video he did on rim jams and why they were not really an issue. You will then come across as less ignorant (I trust is correct phrasing in English?).

[@gatlingbert]

do you have a Lee enfield and old 303 ammo ?

[@JohnyG29]

bert rob Hello friend, yes! I have two smles and used number 4. No ww2 ammo, but the modern ammo with correctly shaped cartridges not jam often. I imagine if it was a real problem when rifle was in military use, changes would have been made. Fact rifle was used from 1910s to 1950s suggests otherwise. Cheerio chum!