Denuvo Insist Their DRM Isn't Evil & Want To Prove It

[@YongYea]

Denuvo affects every game differently, but there's enough evidence out there of Denuvo negatively impacting PC gaming performance in numerous high profile games and situations that it's going to take a lot of counter-evidence for them to convince the masses. PATREON: www.patreon.com/yongyea TWITTER: twitter.com/yongyea TOP PATRONS [CIPHER] - Waning Zane [BIG BOSS] - Devon B - Jonathan Ball [BOSS] - Gerardo Andrade - Michael Redmond - Peter Vrba [LEGENDARY] - BattleBladeWar

[@404Errored]

Any statement from denuvo is about as subtle as a disney villain....

[@Mr.X2019]

Where is the actual proof of it affecting games then? Say it's evil all you want but show actual proof of Denuvo affecting performance.

[@Zercias]

@@Mr.X2019 you download pirated version and compare performance also if devuno is stripped and not just worked around, total filesize is smaller.

[@Mr.X2019]

​​​​@hotrodflame4410 Every game I've seen shown with this is an FPS difference of around 2, on a different game version, or didn't even show proof of the same computer. You can argue that DRM is evil, but I've never been shown actual definitive proof of Denuvo affecting performance.

[@Zercias]

@@Mr.X2019 Keep living with the blinders on dude, ignorance is bliss they say. Either way, why defend denuvo? even IF it wasn't negative, it's doing nothing positive.

[@perlichtman1562]

Any DRM that gives owners of a legitimate copy a worse experience than those that pirate it is fundamentally flawed.

[@nathank2289]

which is all drm. which is why I torrent games before I buy them.

[@PremonitionGamingVid]

@@nathank2289 Thats what I used to do, that or I buy them at a tenth of the price on g2a.

[@fiskburk2908]

@@SoMisunderstood same

[@xXSamir44Xx]

@@danbooke2001 So people buying games and then choosing to play the superior version is a problem? Why?

[@jarmars2777]

​@@danbooke2001 bought the game legitimately but played it through the pirate version. I can't see anything wrong with this.

[@ninjacat230]

When your piracy prevention results in a product inferior to the pirated version, you have already failed to prevent piracy

[@Fourtytwo4242]

it does not even prevent piracy, it lasts for like a fucking month, it actually just a shit software.

[@rivy-lurk-869]

I legit just wait for pirated versions of games cuz of Denuvo making things run like ass on my PC

[@shiroblaidd]

I legit think they turned their code into bloatware on purpose to push people to piracy (which gives companies reason to use DRM)

[@Riley_MDS]

I legit don't wanna buy games thanks to these anti piracy measurements on making legal consumers to suffer more than Le pirates.

[@zelassin]

Wrong. What they should do instead is wait until drm is cracked for the game, then they can remove it from the legit copies. It takes anywhere from 2 weeks to forever for DRM to get cracked. That's why it works as an anti pirate measure - because people want to play at the same time as everyone else. And those who can just wait for a year or longer would never buy the game legitimately no matter what you do, so their existence doesnt matter

[@MrImmortal709]

"We have investigated ourselves and found that we are not at fault."

[@Jackalblade9]

This is the comment I was looking for. Exactly right.

[@Zercias]

mister government is that u?

[@gabrote42]

Internal affairs moment

[@Spike2276]

Denuvo 🤝 Activision Investigating themselves and finding no problems with their business

[@-Devy-]

@@Zercias That behavior is hardly exclusive to governments.

[@allthenamesiwantedweretaken]

Ah yes, the classic "Your tests are unreliable and inaccurate, *our* tests that *we* did *ourselves* are the only ones that are true and (totally) unbiased" defense

[@joedpa]

Same energy as "We investigated ourselves, and concluded that we did nothing wrong"

[@tatsumitwi348]

​@@joedpaThe Ole CCP, United Nations, Blizzard Activision, "We didn't do anything to that women or child" defense

[@nathanwilliams3001]

Exactly thats why third party testing is important. Despite so many reports from users that claim otherwise lol. They are clowns. Just taxing my graphics card increasing its temp and therefore decreasing its lifespan for no reason...

[@jessbellis9510]

The balls to gaslight an entire community and proclaim that INDEPENDENT tests are somehow biased.

[@Caculon]

@@jessbellis9510 They just need to kick up enough disinformation to cause confusion. Sort of like the cigarette companies did. There will always be people who buy it or people who just gravitate to the side of power.

[@Pazuzu4All]

Remember: Denuvo is being sold to the publishers, not to gamers. They are trying to convince publishers to keep buying and putting it in their games. They don't care if gamers hate them.

[@ArDeeMee]

Not to developers, they usually know what they’re doing. DRM is advertised to the money-havers, the studios and publishers.

[@hvngfn022]

This comment should be pinned

[@Pazuzu4All]

@rd2680 whoops. You're completely correct about it being publishers, not developers.

[@nathanwilliams3001]

@@hvngfn022 It really shouldn't because its wrong.

[@whincorbin1553]

Yea but the publishers ultimately answer to the gamers because this kills their profits and player base gets ruined and the games die within a couple months dead servers on games that wouldve held player bases for years and instead they move on to games that dont have these issues so THANK YOU DUMBASS PUBLISHERS AND IDIOT CEO'S FOR OPENING THE MARKET FOR INDIE DEVS DUMBASSES LOL

[@masterofbloopers]

So let me get this straight: the company that own Denuvo is going to make their own program that tests whether or not Denuvo is impacting game performance, and they're only going to give "trusted media outlets" access to said program? I see absolutely nothing wrong this process!

[@Zlx1]

And gaslight you, don't forget that 😉 Set ye self free matey, before ye fate is sealed within the Davy Jones locker! 🏴‍☠

[@adammorrell8834]

I’m curious which trusted media outlets he is referring to. Several outlets are shutting down because they aren’t making money. They aren’t making money because nobody trusts the information they provide.

[@letbloodline]

It’s all about who the “trusted” outlets are. If they give the tests to digital foundry about a game previously tested to cause problems and they say denuvo is right? Obviously if the trusted outlet is their cousin instead…

[@TuffMelon]

Like when Blizzard investigated themselves and found no wrongdoings.

[@letbloodline]

@@TuffMelon if they ask digital foundry?

[@bleh1818]

"Our software isn't evil, let us prove it!" ...The fact that you have to try to "prove it" to begin with is still pretty damning, denuvo

[@Niitroxyde]

"These benchmarks aren't trustworthy. Our benchmarks trying to prove our own innocence will be trustworthy though. Let us investigate ourselves to show you how good we are."

[@WakoDoodle]

activision blizzard - "sounds trustworthy!"

[@Hauntaku]

@@Niitroxyde Bank robber: "I didn't rob the bank! In fact, I'm going to get a group of people to prove my innocence." Cop: "Bruh, you were caught on tape. Your fingerprints were on the gun found at the scene of the crime."

[@NetBattler]

Suspicious

[@letbloodline]

To be fair the fact that they have to “prove it” it’s quite normal. That’s why there are regulations and controls in pretty much everything it’s produced. Food quality, security test for auto, safety standards for toys etc. they want a chance, if they give material to do the tests fairly to digital foundry about a game that previously resulted in problems it will be one thing, if they call their cousin to testify will be naturally different

[@kante1e]

What bothers me the most about Denuvo is that theie EULA clearly says that components of Denuvo will remainnon your PC after the game is uninstalled. And they still wonder why it has been accused of being a rootkit

[@My1xT]

Is that for denuvo drm or anticheat?

[@ianover6838]

@@My1xT yes

[@diligencehumility6971]

Denuvo DRM: *Destroying computers, making them overwork, making games less enjoyable* Also Denuvo DRM: *I am not evil*

[@nathanwilliams3001]

Honestly hate denuvo.

[@My1xT]

Wait denuvo destroys pcs? I thought that was a gone age with starforce and stuff

[@nathanwilliams3001]

@@My1xT Nope still does...of course the people over at denuvo don't care how much you paid for your graphics card nor how it affects your framerate. They want to ensure that your long term gameplay experience is as unoptimized as possible to prevent piracy for a few months until someone envitably finds a crack anyways..

[@My1xT]

@@nathanwilliams3001 you have any proof where denuvo actually destroys a pc?

[@FaytShadowGamingDeveloper]

@@My1xT .32 system files. It rewrites your input and output pathing to their receiving system. Causing direct overclocking and using background processes to utilize data mining technology. It basically makes a bridge between their server your computer and THEN the internet. It's like running an emulated operating system. What they are doing with all this bandwidth is anyone's guess.

[@k3salieri]

This is like when a company "investigates" itself and finds nothing wrong.

[@evandaymon8303]

We should have a law that bans that practice and anyone who does it get hit with a heavy fine and have someone be held accountable for it.

[@XPLOSIVization]

Which is exactly what the corrupt British Government does too ironically

[@Whimpy13]

@@evandaymon8303 They'll just get 'independent fact checkers' check it and find it as the company wants...

[@Nighthearted]

Denuvo is an inherently anti-consumer technology just by virtue of what it does (prevents game preservation, prevents modding, ties the functionality of the product you bought to a third party online service that is not guaranteed to be available, etc.). Even if tests will end up showing no significant performance impact, it changes nothing. In fact it will be a good reason to hate it for what it actually DOES do.

[@nopenope2550]

There's an argument to be made that it's outright illegal too, depending on your interpretation of digital ownership.

[@Zercias]

@@nopenope2550 you only own what you can defend xD

[@timbo303official9]

I should point out it depends on the game if modding is supported but its not full blown hacks just minor mods most of the time. Sonic origins plus and sonic frontiers are examples.

[@Willow4526]

​@@Zerciasno. Legally any purchase you make physical or digital is your unequivocal property to use & can not have it's access removed or revoked unless compensated with a full refund. Or this is at least what it is in my country USAins tho yeah your probably screwed.

[@Zercias]

@@Willow4526 Well sure, unless it's an online game and they turn the servers off. and i bet there is some sht in the ToS you agree to that covers their ass if they wanna pull your copy from their/your online library. EU has some laws aiding customers in this. but it doesn't matter, if they delete it from their platform it's gone and even if it does come to sue-ing them, they big rich companies with expensive lawyers. so in reality, as always, with anything, you only own what you can defend. so unless you have a offline copy not always online connected to the company. No, you are just lending your digital goods at best yes, this is the most pessimistic view on it, but it's closer to the truth i think, then saying Yes, you own your digital goods and can defend them from them being taken away by those who sold you the goods

[@PhantomZwei]

Very “Activision-Blizzard has concluded that Activision-Blizzard did nothing wrong” energy in this one. 😂

[@retnemmoc101]

The performance isn't the main issue. The whole concept of DRM itself is evil- the fact you can't play a game you've paid for without a third party's permission every time is itself evil. And its negatives only really affect paying customers- not the pirates it's supposed to be targetting.

[@cekojuna6930]

DRM isn’t evil, but the poor implementation of being very anti-consumer is. It’s shitty but that’s far as it goes. Which is why Steam gets the DRM pass because it’s done right that isn’t such an inconvenience at all and has a fail safe should it go wrong. Every other company keeps doing it and keeps making it an inconvenience, in Denuvo’s case. It’s definitely among the worse.

[@letbloodline]

This sounds like either incredibly “optimistic” or opportunistic. The whole human civilization works on the threat of repercussion if you do something you should not do. You are saying that this time ppl should have faith that they will not steal if you leave the shop open the night and tell everyone that that shop is open and not protected. You either live in a fairytale or are one of the ppl aiming for the stuff in the shop

[@saxor96]

​@@cekojuna6930I have had games that would normally not run in my old computer run smoothly (on lowest specs of course) just because it's the steam version of the game. So there are ways to do it right. Denuvo just isn't one of them.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@cekojuna6930 Basically the whole service issue thing Gaben talked about more than a decade ago.

[@Yoshi278]

Just shits me off in instances like with Persona 5 - I just want to play it a bit on the hour long train ride I regularly take after work, because my authentication token ran out because I had to restart my Steam Deck and theres no network connection I then can't play any Atlus games. I can pirate and emulate the switch versions on my SD but I want to play the games I paid a shit load of money on.

[@HAL_NOVEMILA]

The little secret that publisher don't want you to know is that piracy protection does almost nothing, games without DRMs sells just as well as games with them, any piracy impact is almost negligible... DRMs only objective is to further erode the property rights of the buyers, ensuring that people can only play the game if the company allows it

[@sjent]

A bit of correction. Sales are not affected by DRM, but by quality of game. Well-made game, like same Witcher 3, was widely pirated...but it also sold over 50 million copies as of 2023. It makes it 9th most sold game in the world. And it never had any DRM in it. In fact developer specifically made it clear that they will NOT included any protection in it. Quality will always sell. DRM is a completely anti-consumer policy, that is meant to squeeze some more water out of stone, at expense of player experience quality. Because companies that do this crap do not give a shit about players and it is a good indicator that they should be either avoided entirely or being taken approached with extreme caution.

[@solblackguy]

Pretty sure this is linked to most PC ports running terribly while they work fine on gamepass. Accessibility over ownership

[@sunder739]

​@@sjent hey, it's simply a free publicity. Piracy isn't always a bad thing when it comes to making other people know about your game.

[@sjent]

@@sunder739 It is never a bad thing. Every analysis of this situation show that it is a positive force. Only ones that try to present it in negative light are publishers, who have very rudimentary understanding of how business and gaming works.

[@wolfetteplays8894]

Incorrect. Anti-piracy prevents all but the most fervent hackers from playing

[@ThatMykl]

“To beat piracy, you just have to create a far superior service.” -GabeN

[@Walamonga1313]

And good pricing

[@coryyoung7544]

Ah yes to play steam games you need to have had 10$-20$ in your steam wallet just to do half the things people can do regularly. I'm sorry put this really pissed me off when I had to get a new PC and I wanted to play payday 2 which i could but couldn't talk for no reason other than it complying with steam requirements to use the steam market. (Which it doesn't even use nowadays) Just for context I had it downloaded so I just moved it over but I was locked out of my account, I could still play but it completely fked multiplayer up for awhile till I got my account back.

[@pixelpuppy]

That's why piracy went down when Netflix popped off, and why it's gone back up again with all these separate subscription services.

[@dotapark]

I think Steve Jobs said similar thing when he launched iTunes store.

[@kallemetsahalme5701]

and the notorious pirates have many famous quotes including "you cant beat the awesome price of free". the base game will always be perfect as a pirate copy. steam can add bells and whistles from stats to friend lists but in many games for tons of players those will forever be just pointless fluff so theyll choose piracy. if i could get free beer from local kiosk i would take it for free, even if the kiosk manager offered foot rubs for all paying customers. or i would, if i didnt think about the wider society and ethics. if i cant afford a game i dont get it, if i know the game has nonreliable drm or hostile mtx or something i dont get it. but for most people the thing that works against piracy is good punishments.

[@xxnike0629xx]

Even with all of this evidence, Denuvo trying to insist it's not causing these technical issues just makes them look even more guilty.

[@crazydude5825]

Exactly! I believe it's called the Striesand Effect?

[@-Devy-]

@@crazydude5825 That's not at all what the Streisand effect is.

[@thegamerfe8751]

​@@crazydude5825No, the Streisand effect is someone attempting to hide something/make everyone not know it existed but then it backfired and now everyone knows about it.

[@boblionia]

​@thegamerfe8751 y... yes... that is exactly what is happening here 😂😂 The only reason this video exists is because Denuvo are trying to hide the performance hits of their software. How exactly is this not the Streisand Effect? This is literally the absolute textbook definition of it

[@atomicNoodle]

Honestly if this article was 'We know Denuvo has issues right now but our intentions are just and we're trying to improve!' I'd have applauded them, but them denying that the performance issues (that were proven time and time again by unbiased parties) are real immediately devalues the entire article to a lie. Now I don't like you at all again Denuvo, good job.

[@Preinstallable]

A wise Gabe Newell once said that one of the major reasons that people pirate is because of service issues.

[@wafu6058]

I pay for most of the games I pirate. 95% of the games I pirate to date have ended up being bought. The other 5% are anti consumer developers who don’t deserve my money for the practices they engage in. The only time I will pirate a game is if I have a level of uncertainty regarding it, and I’m not sure I could make a decision in 2 hours for the steam refund policy. In some cases I’ve finished pirated games entirely… then went on to buy a copy to support the developers. Most of the people I know personally do just this

[@atomicNoodle]

@@wafu6058 While my percentage of buys is lower, I too buy pirated games I enjoyed. But with games like Cyberpunk 2077 and Fallout 76 the implication that I should buy the product before testing it out is ridiculous. It was literally world-wide news that these game developers lied and delivered a extremely subpar product, and still they think I'm sitting here going "Well, I guess I'll give them that 70 dollar benefit-of-a-doubt! Again! "

[@johnny88j9]

The UK government report on piracy revealed pirates at the end of the day spend more on media than not, so even though they pirate they spend much more than the average person does sadly then the cowardly UK government kept the report from being fully published.

[@Jinkypigs]

​​@watsimp1773up and the games and developers starts firmly in my blacklist. Irony is I have not bought (yes I was born in an era where I actually buy a pirated game cause Internet ain't a thing yet) any pirated game since I started earning a wage. But these douchebag developer won't get a cent from me and will stay on my blacklist till he'll freezes over.

[@sinjin8576]

100% thr best way to keep a customer is to simply be complication free

[@pixels_per_minute]

Denuvo is honestly one of the biggest scandals in the gaming industry. It doesn't work, it makes games activity worse, and it's incredibly expensive on the developers part while again, not working as intended. It's basically a scam.

[@josephpurdy8390]

RealAudio Player memories coming back. They are still in business too.

[@andreasottohansen7338]

It is definitely a scam. As a love to call out, Denuvo DRM did not save Wolfenstein the new colossus from being cracked 2 days before release

[@whohan779]

@@scrittle By being cracked pre-release at times. Also, there's games with Denuvo that are on Switch and run fine on Emulators - so considering how optimized they became lately running a game in Yuzu with upscaling may work similarly to a cracked PC release.

[@thefool8224]

@@andreasottohansen7338 .denuvo only saves niche titles that nobody cares enough to crack, like shin megami tensei nocturne on PC

[@raivendarkness]

​@@thefool8224 and those usually can be play in a switch emulator

[@SadTown99]

This is the equivalent of failing a drug test at a science lab & then trying to prove you can pass a drug test, by using your own drug testing kit 😂😂😂

[@Relativity404]

"Any man that must say 'I am the king' is no true king" In other words, them claiming they're not evil proves the opposite

[@Oromnis]

Denuvo is tired. See him to his chamber

[@SageVallant]

"People don't think enough of the wealthy corporations." Yeah, you right. I'm just over here being mad that my game isn't running right.

[@Zercias]

hahahahahahahahahaha true brother

[@Crouza]

The thing that makes this suck the most is that it shows Denuvo is committed to being awful. If they admitted that it did have an impact but were like "We're always working to reduce this impact and have a new test to show we've made massive strides to ensure a good experience." It would be an easy spin to convince people. But this stance of "nothing is wrong with denuvo and there are no flaws with it" send a clear signal that they don't care about improving denuvo and just want to keep it as bloated malware.

[@Romanticoutlaw]

there is no war in ba sing se

[@samuelcp100]

​@user-vg4tf4be8cYes specially with EA titles

[@rogerwilco2]

Indeed.

[@thefool8224]

@user-vg4tf4be8c .that should be obvious, otherwise they wouldnt be doing it.

[@brandon9689]

Its offensive that these DRM advocates think the community is going to fall for a handful of loaded benchmark tests.

[@MissFoxification]

Well if they had confidence in their product they'd offer it for free to standard benchmarking programs we already use, then we could test it ourselves. It will never happen though because we already know the truth.

[@pixelpuppy]

I remember when DRM was first introduced in Assassins Creed, and the pirates were playing it Day 1, while legit players were locked out cuz the Ubisoft server was overwhelmed.

[@CC21200]

Let's have the defendant be their own jury, what a great idea. I support Denuvo's plan to distribute this program to trusted media outlets, so that we can determine which media outlets are trusted by Denuvo and therefore not to be trusted.

[@PAINBRINGER]

They can prove it by not locking me out of games I paid for. Edit: THEY CLEARLY PLAN TO RIG THEIR OWN TESTS. Best case scenario they admit they lied when these "totally legitimate tests" go awry.

[@MegaRazorback]

Thing is though, even if they do rig their tests...The sample size they pick to "test" will still be TINY in comparison to what tests have already been done and we'll instantly know what to compare against if they happen to pick some games from the same list of games that have already been tested independently by others.

[@thefool8224]

the worst isnt even the performance. when the game refuses to launch because it couldnt validate your purchase, that was already validated by your bank and your money transferred to them. so what are they supposed to be validating? its just a glorified kill switch.

[@LordryuRevived]

If a company has to go out of their way to say that they *aren't* something, they probably are *exactly* that.

[@eliasvenaas1685]

It's like the white glove society in Fallout: New Vegas. "We're not cannibals!" Cried the cannibal. It makes me laugh everytime.

[@andrewryan2928]

"There is no war in Ba Sing Se!"

[@risingraven23]

"Our DRM isn't evil, it's just a useless and highly annoying system that we've built to irritate everyone who plays video games. Just because we intentionally put in a system that crashes games in the name of protecting piracy doesn't mean it's evil." - Denuvo PS: Okay it's evil...

[@R4NK4Z]

When a Billion Dollar company tries to convince you its not evil... thats when you can absolutely tell its evil

[@Altshoukyaku]

This is why I respect you as a journalist, willing to give the benefit of the doubt despite the pain in your voice showing your personal opinion is commendable. Seriously wish more journalists were like you dude

[@fengxii]

This is really interesting, never thought that Denuvo would make a statement about their public image. Possible they've been having issues with potential clients. The negative attention seems to be working! Lets hope something changes

[@shoopoop21]

Which is a good thing. Companies should see Denuvo as a pariah they could get covered in dung by associating with. Because its true.

[@ChaldeaWarmaster]

I think with the release of portable PCs and the popularity of the Steam Deck, people are starting to see DRM again for what it is, something intrusive

[@rps215]

In case you don't know a couple of years ago they change their policy, AKA they are getting EA greedy. Previously it was single payment for use indefinitely, but now they are asking for a cut of the profit while they are using Denuvo (wow, talk about a racketeering mafia). This is actually a good thing, why do you think EA remove Denuvo from their remakes after just one month? Also we can take the fight to them further: Wait until the game has been stripped of Denuvo before buying to avoid giving them a cent.

[@Offroader210]

Denuvo: Anti-cheat, anti-piracy, and anti-fun.

[@cordero6960]

anti-ownership,anti-customer, anti-christ

[@limyarplane1991]

biggest advertiser for getting people into piracy to.

[@Aereto]

Corporate. Enough said.

[@aarontrupiano9328]

"trust me bro" remember when ea said they didn't know why they were seen as the bad guys?

[@Strogghog]

I think the reason they would make a public statement like this is because company’s are starting to question DRMs use with fan backlash

[@kinghyperheart1571]

As they should. Fans, keep making noise, and the gaming companies will feel the pressure eventually, don't let up until the DRM companies lose major business. If we could do it to Budlight and Disney, we can do it to ANYONE.

[@LaserSeQ]

''We invistigated ourselves and found no faults, we're not wrong, it's the kids who are wrong''

[@scrubyt2668]

this situation has the same energy as Activision instigating it's poor work culture and saying there is no evidence of sexism

[@josephpurdy8390]

All of corporate America.

[@gabrieloviedocasanas4977]

The fact they have to prove it isn't evil in the first place is a massive Red Flag

[@lvl5Vaporeon]

This is literally like Emperor Palpatine saying *I love democracy* in Episode 3. Edit: Episode 2. Guess someone Jedi mind tricked my memory.

[@mercenarygundam1487]

Don't you mean Episode 2? Or am I misremembering?

[@erikhendrickson59]

This is how open source dies. With thunderous applause!

[@WhiskeyFiend]

Why wouldn't he love a system that allowed him to infiltrate and corrupt it? False equivalency imo

[@stargamer64123]

Episode 2

[@ServantBerserkerZero]

Star wars might be dead but the memes live forever

[@BleachBasket108]

Isn't it so funny when a corpo plays the victim when they're the problem, the gaslighting is just so cute of them

[@MaztRPwn]

This is like getting pulled over and saying, "Well officer, I measured my speed myself and found that i was in fact doing the speed limit."

[@JTruong3rd]

They're the reason why Piracy is even more encouraged by being a service problem themselves.

[@skollkid]

A large portion of gamers enjoy offline games, yet the industry keeps pushing online play.

[@PLPlolol1]

Lets call it the correct way Theyre not pushing online play Theyre pushing expiry dates for games

[@SageofStars]

'Anti-Cheat, Anti-Piracy Software' You forgot Anti-Consumer.

[@TechWithVille]

”I'm not evil!” says the villain.

[@yukigo621]

to prevent piracy all you need to do is to make the legal version to PERFORM BETTER. not the other way around.

[@Simte]

"I'm not evil." - Almost any villain out there.

[@mitsudafanni7978]

I never thought they were "evil". Now that they've put the thought in my mind, I'm going to start leaving reviews for Denuvo games on Steam something along the likes of: "Denuvo claims they aren't evil, but the fact they have been found committing child sacrifices in their basement to Malloch suggests otherwise."

[@dexketristo2349]

"By the nine divines! SOMEONE'S BEEN MURDERED!"

[@Nightroadtube]

allegedly.

[@paegr]

Cool it with the anti-Semitism!

[@Rifky809]

@@paegr Tell that to Denuvo

[@RusticRonnie]

⁠​⁠@@paegras a jewish man, I simply cannot support Denuvo. And I know my great grandfather who survived the holocaust is smiling down on me from above knowing that I won’t support a second coming

[@diegosolis9681]

I'm so excited for this! This feels like one of those corporate things they came up with without fully understanding what they are doing and will backfire awfully in their face because some people will take a look at the statistics, the code and will data mine these tests and will how that they are either misleading of doctoring results.

[@jackielinde7568]

Remember, never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence. I wouldn't say Denuvo isn't necessarily evil, just frickin' incompetent at the job they say they're trying to do.

[@RusticRonnie]

They are scanning your files, so thats not incompetence, they had to choose to do that.

[@mikemumper881]

Can't it be both?

[@jackielinde7568]

@@mikemumper881It could, but in most cases mistakes are more likely to be someone just screwing up or unable to perform their job than someone active trying to harm someone.

[@chiffmonkey]

Anti-piracy that makes people want to pirate is missing the point.

[@RusticRonnie]

Thats all digital anti piracy measures.

[@chiffmonkey]

@@RusticRonnie Nah, all you need is a sensible marketing campaign where you encourage people to pay the developers' wages - kinda like how patreon operates.

[@velveteenv76]

If Denuvo is speaking out that means they lost some clients.

[@UnintelligibleYT]

GOOD.

[@DraconisLeonidas]

The stupidest part is that they'd probably gain more money from stopping using anticheat like Denuvo, since they wouldn't have to pay for it. It wouldn't effect pirating at all since it's already been shown how easily Denuvo is cracked and the people who want to pirate typically aren't going to be effected because the mass majority of piraters aren't the ones cracking the games. It's brainless all around.

[@t1czer]

Mafia insists their actions are legal Drug addict insists he can stop at any time And so on. Also an idea - community chooses the a Denuvo-free game and company will just add Denuvo to it so the main copy is without drm.

[@Zercias]

yeah i like the idea of optional devuno, that way normal people can play the game as intended. and denuvo fans can...do whatever it is they do.

[@Zzz-j2f]

“We’ve investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong.” Poli- I mean Denuvo.

[@dexketristo2349]

@@Zercias If a company has put DRM into a game, it is no longer optional. It is either in the game or it isn't. There is no such thing as "Optional" when it comes to financial expenditures for resources like that. Allow me to explain, because there ARE two sides to this logically. Either A: They have no put money into acquiring a license to use the DRM for a game. Their mindset is along the lines of, "This would just be a waste of money and make programming more difficult. Even if it helps fight piracy, it isn't worth the extra down time it would take to get it all running and out the door by launch day." Or B: They have already bought the license, so their mindset is more to the tune of this: "Okay, we already have the license for our game. Code junkies finished getting everything squared away so we can do our job. We put money into this DRM, so we'd might as well use it while we can before the license runs out. No sense in wasting unused resources, right?" Usually piracy is an after thought and only comes to the forefront as a result of a publisher in charge of funding game development with a controlling share of the development team/company in question working on the game. It's natural from a financial perspective to went the biggest numbers possible all the time, even if it makes something more inconvenient to do the above-board way than just sailing the high seas, because at the end of the day, making money is the goal. Truthfully, THAT is the crux of the matter. There's so much focus on profit that the fact a game is being developed falls to the wayside. The people who want DRM in these games either do not understand or do not *CARE* that they are a game production company. They just want money to make more stuff, then rinse and repeat the process. It's an easy pitfall to slip into if you don't think about out or be aware that it exists.

[@jeremyrichard2722]

Well The Mafia never really insisted their actions were legal, they did however defend themselves on moral and ethical grounds a few times, by claiming they were simply filling need and a lot of the terrible things they did were mostly due to people trying to stop them from basically providing those services. The basic attitude is like "people want to gamble and hire whores, you banned that for moral reasons when people don't agree with you, we're just giving the people who disagree with your moral stance what they want, and we aren't forcing it on those people who truly maintain that morality. All the violence and such is simply because of people trying to stop us, and if you just let us do it, there would be no need". Today the mob has gone more or less legit, which has been made possible due to the laws becoming messier and many loopholes existing. For example when they legalized Indian gambling, The Mob no longer had to run casinos in states outside of Nevada under the table, they could just have a company from Vegas finance a Tribe and effectively run the casino through them and run the same racket where the house always wins legally, and even used other companies under their umbrella who are officially independent to loan people money to gamble with and then wind up pretty much take the money they lent back, while collecting interest on the loan, an it was all above board. When you have Porn Tube and Only Fans and girls who can offer to make private videos or "date" their big donors, why run underground whore houses when you can do the same thing via the interwebs and claim it's all above board by using the right language? I mean their company doesn't know what goes on during that date, and maybe she's just deeply in love with that user, it might have nothing to do with the money.

[@whohan779]

@@dexketristo2349 Well it is optional if they do a Devil May Cry 5 & release a clean .exe by mistake or by sheer (un)luck the specific game in cracked within the first week of or even prior to release. It's not like the game wouldn't just work as long as it's the same version by merely supplanting the internal non-DRM-exe.

[@FailsafeZero]

You nailed it. Anit-piracy measures have to be invisible. If I have to be online in a single player game, that's intrusive. If there is an extra program running and degrading the game experience, that's intrusive. I dont pirate, but these intrusions affect my buying decisions.

[@theexpatriate]

Imagine being one of Denuvo's software engineers in charge of putting together these "nearly identical" game copies to be distributed to the press, and if they don't paint the image the company wants its your job on the line. Insert your gif of choice of a heavily sweating man... that's him right now

[@SoftisNelaris]

At this point, it's near-certain that it won't work out for Denuvo. Even if their tests from "trusted sources" give positive results, the not-so-trusted-sources are going to get their hands on it as well, do their own tests, and pick apart the code looking for what Denuvo messed with to get these "results". Chances are, they will still end up losing either way... But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[@Sorain1]

If you get handed a Uriah Gambit assignment like that you FIND A NEW JOB.

[@Keisuki]

Denuvo developer: *Opens the non-denuvo build files* Denuvo developer: *Adds a 'sleep(0.5)` in the main loop* Denuvo developer: "Look! They're identical in performance!"

[@marsmotion]

cashola fixes that problem at the trusted sites...lol

[@Qardo]

If I recall. There are games, if you legally buy them, they are literally unplayable. As the DRM broke them. Thus, you have to either pirate or crack the game to play them. In turn, meaning the DRM is anti-customer.

[@shieldphaser]

Mm, just look at the whole games-for-windows-live ecosystem, for one. Those games are always a hassle to get working properly these days.

[@AdmiralBison]

Denuvo's business will eventually disappear anyway, since a few corporations are trying to force and sell services of 'Online only' and Cloud streaming subscriptions. Which is why it's important to push for and support Physical medium and/or DRM-Free digital games (like GOG).

[@mikev8746]

Cant believe nowadays Kiryu is both fighting Yakuza crime bosses AND Denuvo DRM scams, what a time to be alive

[@Marco_Onyxheart]

I just have to wonder if they've ever heard of thread priority. You should be able to just multithread Denuvo and just make sure it only does its thing when there's free processing power available.

[@JohnDoe-gt3jr]

You know, they could've done this a lot better by actually acknowledging that there is something wrong with their DRM or something and say that they are doing everything they can to fix it, but I guess honesty is just asking too much from them.

[@RusticRonnie]

They can’t, it’s invasive and is collecting data on you

[@gabrote42]

The police IA motto was echoed by Denuvo and their benchmarks: "We investigated ourselves and found no evidence of any wrongdoing".

[@TheHipisterDeer]

They are telling the developers and publishers this, not us the customers who actually gave to deal with this nonsense.

[@bottomlefto]

these days, people don't pirate because people can't afford it. people pirate because the official paid product is worse than the pirated one. either performance due to unnecessary drm or in the recent case of skullgirls, the developer retroactively taking away content that was paid for and removing themes that the game was sold under from the beginning.

[@kevingarnier6952]

Piracy has been a public and common thing since the Playstation One and it has never cause any harm to the video game industry. The DRM are quite recent, compared to piracy, and its benefits are at best completely invisible. Investing time and development to ensure already rich people can "supposedly" gain more money is beyond ridiculous. I can't see in any way how reducing piracy can help developers or game designers. The indie boom is yet another proof piracy does nothing to prevent either good or bad (or known and unknown) games to be successful, Just let people do what they always did. Even pirates buy games (and probably more than casuals). One thing DRM do is ensure the common player can NOT see a game is unfinished before buying it. Now that's a reason to enfore it in every single AAA, albeit completely disgraceful.

[@myownaccount5058]

“It’s good for the publisher because it’s good for the gamers because it’s good for the publisher!” Circular logic at its finest.

[@PicketPolecat]

We aren't complaining that you're evil, DENUVO, we're complaining that you're _unnecessary_

[@Zercias]

well, their insistance on exsisting is offensively annoying, but i think i could be talked into considering them evil for not just fking right off.

[@Spamkromite]

💯

[@Volker_A4]

It's pretty ironic that mods are one of the #1 reasons to have the official up to date version of a game. And DRM makes them nearly impossible to create. Prime example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[@indecision6326]

Pretty sure the consumers familiar with the matter have already decided unanimously and without a shred of doubt that Denuvo is unforgivable. Who are they trying to fool here aside from the corporations who've already bought in and who don't need further convincing?

[@DennisYangI]

The best kind of anti piracy measure is to make your game actually worth buying.

[@ebonsoule5275]

This.

[@iqbaalannaafi4944]

Clearly Denuvo tries way too hard to sell their "anti-piracy" service.

[@DMBLaan]

Plus, it should be pointed out that Denuvo is clearly NOT working. The games with it are still being cracked in almost record time every release

[@cormoran2303]

Denuvo: Every single one of you are CRIMINALS! ALSO Denuvo: How dare you accuse us of being bad!

[@Phynellius]

Never said Denuvo was "evil", just that it inherently makes piracy the better customer experience...

[@terry2295]

That's one of the many reasons I buy my games on GOG nowadays. Their No-DRM policy is fantastic.

[@stevenmaswabi-zz9kt]

Am more worried about the fact that publishers don't remove Denuvo after the games life cycle. So if the serve has gone down my game is worthless since it can't check the servers because they are down.

[@StateBlaze1989]

Queue the flashbacks of Activision saying they have no issues of employee harassment and discrimination based on their own "investigations".

[@HeyLookImGerman]

The funny thing is that this DRM does nothing to stop pirates. It only slightly inconveniences them.

[@nicocchi]

and hurts legitimate consumers (who wouldn't remove denuvo) instead. Make it make sense

[@nopenope2550]

It's funny the lengths these companies will go to to ineffectively combat a literal rounding error. Comedy in its purest form.

[@LsiesOfficial]

The shortest inconveniences I see is that it take sometimes as little as six hours to get around denuvo and thats in the first couple hours of a games release

[@Ashurman666]

In this case it's helping pirates. Scene group EMPRESS charges 500 bucks per DENUVO crack. And they always deliver.

[@ChaosSkye]

Callisto protocol and deadspace remake says hi.

[@4P0CA1YP5E]

"We have investigate ourself and found that we did nothing wrong" - some game company "We have distributed a set of preapproved tests on a preapproved game to multiple preapproved game review sites to give the preapproved result that Denuvo is perfect in every preapproved way." - Overlord of DRM

[@GuardianofRoin]

Denuvo: "We investigated ourselves and concluded we did nothing wrong."

[@formdusktilldeath]

Yeah, if someone stresses how not evil they are, it only makes me more suspicious that they are in fact, evil.

[@TheCatzMeow]

Of course they would say nothing is wrong. They don't want people to stop buying/using their product. I'd bet they're fully aware of the problems but they sure as hell won't ever admit it. Typical greedy corporate scum tactics.

[@JwhateverJ]

Old as the earth, and anyone can see right thru it, but they dumb. Rich people are really stupid.

[@ICountFrom0]

It'll be intersting to see how much information the "hand picked" groups are going to be allowed to give about things. Also makes me wonder if the "non secured" version sent out to test will be slowed down to make it match.

[@dexketristo2349]

A Good possibility. They have an image they want to maintain after all. They wouldn't be addressing this if they thought they could ignore it.

[@davids5458]

@@dexketristo2349 Either that, or they will pick a game that uses very little processing power so that Denuvo does not interfere.

[@Excalibur-Sonic]

Denuvo: we investigated the issue and found we have done nothing to your devices.

[@cool-soap]

If the Software isn't evil, then we should have the right to access the source code to test it ourselves in the general population. Otherwise, it is evil.

[@TheNameIsSR]

Denuvo locked me out of my own game for 24 hours when I was experimenting with different proton versions on Steam Deck. Even though that game (SMTNocturne) is essentially a PS2 port it's performance is still slightly stuttery, even on my main rig

[@AllHailShadow117]

Evil companies always say they aren’t evil.

[@MukiMuki688]

Denuvo is like runnin' 50 instances of Norton AntiVirus in the background while the game is runnin'

[@ohnosmoarlulcatz]

There's only one way I would believe them and that's if they can get the Denuvo version of Nier Automata running on their PCs with Denuvo without issues. SPOILER ALERT! YOU CAN'T. The game synced the game's speed to frame rate, so running the game at 60 FPS meant it was running at 2x speed and 120 FPS meant 4x speed. Resolution was fixed so that they couldn't upscale the cutscenes beyond its 720p/30fps. Any changes to the resolution would just stretch its aspect ratio. It only took them FOUR YEARS to fix this by finally removing Denuvo and allowing the game's resolution to be changed to something outside its native 720p/306fps. How about trying to launch a Denuvo protected game without an internet connection too? That's a fun one since Persona 4 Golden, a 10 year old SINGLE PLAYER RPG was unplayable when their servers were down.

[@Handepsilon]

The part where the software makes the games perform worse doesn't inherently say that they're evil But the part where their software doesn't even stop what it wanted to stop does prove that they're foolish

[@AnthonyBC93]

"We'll create a program to see if our DRM is the problem" Isn't what what Activision Blizzard did?

[@cals2889]

Developers have to spend roughly 200k+ for a denuvo license. They wouldn't even lose that much if people pirated their games...

[@wilbo_baggins]

Why are companies like we investigate ourselves and find no issues. What a joke.

[@ashtonderojas821]

Not just companies but governments throughout history as well even today.

[@_Vengeance_]

I bet that the "Denuvo-less" test version will just have Denuvo running its checks as usual, it just won't lock the tester out if the copy is pirated. So, it will still have all the same performance problems.

[@Bethgael]

If they are sending out an internal programme to people to use for their own "independent" tests, it would be hilarious if the "trusted" media outlets who do the tests find that Denuvo's own tests disprove their contention that Denuvo isn't an issue.

[@mkuhnactual]

@@Bethgael I'd imagine if they're sending their prepicked tests to "trusted" outlets they'll have ensure they show no difference.

[@antnuh765]

I personally love Denuvo. It lets me know which games aren't worth buying until a year or more later.

[@Nevict]

Hi-Fi Rush has Denuvo in it, and some users on Steam are refusing to buy it until it is removed.

[@SilverGeFer]

I thought Hi-Fi Rush ran well on PC? Seems like it’s a pretty polished game overall

[@foxfer4965]

Hearing them saying that they will provide "test copies" of programs/game with and without the DRM reminds me of stuff like Volkswagen emissions scandal etc... where they just program stuff to "bypass" checks. Whats the point if you are going to prepare "test" versions of programs instead of just testing the live builds that are already out there?

[@officerbucktuddrussel394]

You know who's tests I trust the most? The people who have a financial stake in what the test proves test. *rolls eyes* Edit: Denuvo's testing.

[@furshizzle]

Right, the company that's making a bad product wants to make a "good test" to prove how good their bad product is. Have fun with that.

[@anthonyreynolds3418]

Also in the news: Thieves highlight how they are not bad guys. Its the pesky cops who are the bad guys.

[@jason2mate]

Just to be clear, Denuvo tends to only protect a game for like a week or so in most cases. Is it worth a week of protection, so that paying customers can have a worse experience until the developer decides to remove it? If a game I want has Denuvo, I'm incentivized to pirate it, not pay for it.