YORK HEATER BURNING SMELL

[@edwardgaddis8333]

I've been in the biz going on 5 years. Between fundamentals and some advanced knowledge that's the biggest hurdle I'm trying to jump is being more detail oriented. What you did is a fine example of due diligence and detail. Great find loooooong day but great find.

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

I will be going live on KZbin this evening 8/19/19 @5:pm (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions from KZbin comments, the chat, and emails. Come check it out if you can kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXe5e3qiYrCJe8U

[@edwardgaddis8333]

@@LarryTheRoleplayerTM thanks you're an inspiration to everyone. Im better for your dumbass comment. I hope you don't interact with customers.

[@benjaminwoodward2362]

You’re the man Chris! Always so thorough, definite a model tech for all to follow.

[@RayRay-nb7tn]

I have found those old York units are known to have electrical fires in them. Good find on all units. Thank you for the video.

[@Samthe17]

I honestly think those old units are a piece of crap.

[@twopups]

I like your demonstration of a careful problem-solving technique. Valuable for any complex system. Thanks.

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Thanks so much for watching!

[@Transit_Biker]

I really wish all HVACR techs were as thorough for all their customers. Also, having customers following proper care and procedure would be nice for you i'm sure! Great video!

[@eliasmechanicalservice]

Chris a simple hypothesis is that when there is a short circuit especially with the inducer motor usually run opposite ... Good job Chris!..Professional, thanks for sharing it ..

[@marcoferreira226]

I'm a 1st year apprentice almost done my level1 schooling. Thank you for your videos.

[@chrism7275]

Marco Ferreira congrats man this is the best trade in the world my whole family has ran there own shops been doing it since 16 and I’m 24 now and I still love it.. Do you have any family in the trade or are you the first for hvac/refrigeration

[@boomer9900]

It's certainly a mystery. From an electricians point of view, I didn't see anything that could pollute an entire building sufficiently as to call the fire department. The equipment looked pretty good for it's age as you point out. I think it's more likely a lamp ballast or compressor or perhaps fan motor inside the building burnt and the fumes collected in the RTU's. Your thorough investigations inspire me.

[@RobertSzasz]

If you smell electrical burning and can't find the source, get folks out of the building.

[@crforfreedom7407]

Nice work Chris! Talk about starting trouble-shooting with a broad perspective! That's about as macro as it gets! Way to systematically work down to the precise micro and find the needle in the haystack! You also solved other problems and were super conscientious for your cust. So well done!

[@rickbraden4272]

This is a very thorough video of what needed to be done. Way to go. I think you may have used the term "electrical short" with the burnt plug where "bad electrical connection" may have been more accurate.

[@throttlebottle5906]

maybe salt water air or condensation got into it, hard to say..

[@whatevernamegoeshere3644]

@@throttlebottle5906 Looks like the connector just rubbed out over the years due to vibration and it started heating up. When they heat up, it's a chain reaction. The metal will oxidize, the contact gets worse, resistance goes up and it feeds more heat into itself. It's just totally exponential.

[@throttlebottle5906]

@@whatevernamegoeshere3644 very well could be also. my reasoning was that connector passes through from open to atmosphere combustion air side to indoor blower side which runs at negative pressure, then add negative building pressure since a MAU was down and other had a bag in it. you have a highway for bad things to pull into connectors, like salty ocean air, I believe many of his videos are near oceanfront, although not sure on this one. had to watch it again since it was two years ago lol

[@whatevernamegoeshere3644]

@@throttlebottle5906 Oh yeah that's a very fair point

[@hvacdr]

Goodman's are especially known for cracked h/e. If I'm on a rooftop Goodman even in the summer I try to check the heat exchanger if I'm going to do a decent size repair in case it's better to just replace. Love the videos man keep it coming!

[@jwwasher]

Thanks so much for this video and all the others too. Like some other responders, I get nervous after a couple hours of no trouble found. Still, you have to keep after it.

[@ronwade5433]

So many other techs would miss that! Great work and these folks are LUCKY. Old York units cause fires

[@Terayonjf]

Good find. Those types of electric calls are always head scratchers. Those York heat exchangers are still available unfortunately. Just changed one on a 2003 York. Always such a pain with the million screws in horrible spots to get them out

[@ninamcclure2193]

I always get a little panic feeling when somsomeone says they smell smoke at my warehouse. I have over a million tires that would go for months. Thx for the great video guy.

[@454Camaro1]

freaking funny, ive had that happen to me once, i started a swamp cooler and all that dust n debris went downstairs, the cooks were pissed because some of that debris went into the boiling pot of beans. i never saw them make a new batch though.

[@moonsookim9445]

Jesus!!! 6 in the morning?? Oh wow mad respect for you Chris!! And thanks for the vid!!!

[@garydudgeon]

Really great job the way you investigated to find the problem.

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Thanks bud

[@mysock351C]

Nice job finding the problem. Seen those fail just due to the contacts loosening up.

[@Jshortca1]

I've dusted out a kitchen with pigeon feathers. The cooks just wiped the feathers off their prepping counters and kept on serving.

[@FrozenHaxor]

Reminds me of Gordon Ramsay's kitchen nightmares lol

[@38911bytefree]

Ask them how many raoches they have kicked from the dishes prior serving ....

[@mysock351C]

9:00 oh god I hate those things. Move into an apartment or a house and wonder why it smells like a lemon-scented ashtray. And then having to fish them all out of the ductwork, cabinets, furnace, etc. Understand them here but people always hide them everywhere to cover stuff up.

[@678friedbed]

I went into the bathroom and took a massive dump and it stunk really bad, then I sprayed some air freshener and now it smells like shittress

[@whatevernamegoeshere3644]

@@678friedbed smells like a pile of shit in a blooming oasis

[@tyhuffman5447]

This would have been a good time to use the IR camera to maybe speedup the troubleshooting, the electrical issue got hot once and may have been getting hot again. Great video! thanks for sharing!

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Thanks for watching!

[@tyhuffman5447]

Here’s an idea, take your cell and walk around the machines recording their sounds to a WAV file. When you get home analyze the wav file using a FFT, there are audio samples around of various machine faults. If you find a match you found a machine fault. Practice a lot and it will become like second nature.

[@AlessioSangalli]

Or make a machine learning application that can correlate FFT data to known and past issues, and come up with potential diagnosis

[@tyhuffman5447]

@@AlessioSangalli exactly

[@Akvan79]

Very good breakdown and investigative ability

[@azhvacr2332]

Good job man!👍🏼 they diff need to budget for replacements

[@RJMaker]

Excellent diag. Would have loved to see the repair. Thanks for the video.

[@jorgegveram1]

Impecable like Always!!! The best on the Field no doubt!!✌️

[@blendpinexus1416]

take your time to diagnose. yeah, i have to tell myself that everytime i go and do some programming. all of my largest projects have had numerous bugs and they were all the pain in the butt to find ones and in the one place that can't be diagnosed simply by the program behavior. guess this video was just like my programs.

[@throttlebottle5906]

@ 10:51 I'd assume the blower is stopping for some reason and the unit's cycling on the high limit overheating and causing the burnt smell, before I assumed gas valve/pressure. If it was that over-fired and screaming hot, it would likely have loud audible whooshing, flame roll out and maybe even breathing fire out the draft inducers exhaust :))

[@throttlebottle5906]

after watching further, I think it was the draft inducer slowing or stopping, causing overheating or possibly making the gas valve stay open, but it would likely have major roll out in the valve compartment and burnt everything, does it even have roll-out thermostats and are they self resetting type? I imagine it had the heat exchanger glowing red and the indoor blower not coming on or in shorter bursts, yikes!

[@josedealba4874]

man youre actitud is amazing i want to deal with problems the same way as you damn well done sr

[@ddysprks]

Have you ever seen a broken unit in your day-to-day work, that was malfunctioning in such a way, that you were seriously concerned about your safety? Do you see potentially disastrous mechanical faults often? Btw love the videos man! Keep it up!

[@tyhuffman5447]

Probably the bearings on the fan in the unit that had the bag stuck in it are shot. Something you can do as a service is take current readings before and after the job since you are setting things right and measure the difference. You should see a lower amp draw and that is something you can share with your customers to show what savings they can expect over a period of time. Another troubleshooting tool is an FFT app for your cell phone. Use the FFT to listen to what the machine is trying to say about its health. If you can justify the cost, in both time and money, get a vibration analyzer and it don't have to be super expensive and you can tell things like bearing condition, balance, alignment, support structure integrity. When you get that good you can start recording decibel levels and showing the client how much quieter the machines are and that is another level of wasted energy that they don't have to pay for. Once you get good at it the service call may be able to pay for itself in one year (if running 24/7 or more if not) just from energy savings. When you put things right they usually require less resources to do what they do, saving water, or energy, or whatever.

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Great tips thanks!

[@tyhuffman5447]

@@HVACRVIDEOS I do that kind of stuff for a living. Yorks of that size and up to ~2.500 tons maybe more I stopped counting. I watch the bearings or journal bearings and general machine health stuff. I don't work on the machines I get tips on how they work and run and how they go bad by watching you.

[@frankbradley2852]

Those tips are trash

[@tyhuffman5447]

Frank Bradley possibly, maybe you can point out where I erred. Actually recording the sounds and sound levels of machine rooms is a high end technique to understand and improve machinery health. Precision maintenance is one name for this. It was pioneered by the airline industry to improve their maintenance practices. You can look that up easily. In short they needed to move from maintenance by calendar to only changing the parts that need changing. They use vibration analysis on the engines several times during each flight. Here’s something I found: www.lifetime-reliability.com/free-articles/precision-maintenance/Using_and_Introducing_Precision_Maintenance.pdf

[@throttlebottle5906]

vibration analysis is great and all, however, they need to have something identical to compare against, if not it's a sham of rather useless guessing game... trained educated ears and simple stethoscope with rod would do better ;) like a "mechanics stethoscopes or screwdriver with but end against ear tight... you know, like some of the "old school techs" and real training that's been long lost and forgotten... that takes actual field experience and training by skilled elders that are willing too~

[@johnhummingbird4552]

Love your videos keep them coming

[@lexmarks567]

had something like this happen at my job. I work in injection molding and we had a solid state relay go bad on a injection machine. You could smell burning plastic and when we opened the control hatch on the machine you could see dripping plastic coming from the relay.

[@charadremur333]

Ouch. That was a bad thing, what caused it?

[@texture6]

Amazing as always!

[@andyg5004]

Excellent job

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Thanks bud

[@Eddy63]

Great troubleshooting vid Chris ... Electrical problem's are the best aren't they ... Lol ...

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Yeah ha ha!

[@davejohnsonnola2758]

Pardon what is likely a silly question but on the rooftop make up air units, do they just dump down into the kitchen without any other filtration besides what is (or is not?) on the roof? Thanks for the vids and taking us along. I've gone from just cleaning condenser coils on bars and kitchen fridges a couple years ago to digging into fryers and steam kettles... now they've given me keys to the roof at this facility and said something's wrong up there....WTH?, I'll have a look.

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Typically they only have metal mesh filters that basically catch bugs, nicer units have normal filters but because its outside air you would need to change them weekly.

[@johnh2312]

Any chance that connector was for the blower motor? If the blower motor connector intermittently failed, and the high limit didn't cut out in time; or at all, it could have been a two-in-one fail. I'm curious if the limit switch is cutting out at the proper temperature.

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

No the connector was for the heating section the blower motor was three phase direct from the contactor, as far as the limit switch it's possible it was going bad, so far we havent had another problem so time will tell.

[@throttlebottle5906]

I'm thinking that was for the inducer, it was slowing down or stopping causing overheat/roll out and high limit cycling. does that thing even have a roll out limit? or self resetting? that explains the "cooking" in the heat exchanger area :O

[@capitolrefrigerationheatin7501]

those are some old units! nice find

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Thanks!

[@supermodo417]

Good work

[@mrsauce9307]

Hellooo it’s me again lol I’m a big fan😁

[@poncedeleonrefrigeration9197]

KZbin should have a second thumbs up

[@scottbishop2532]

Every now and again we are forced to replace heat exchangers which incurs a sizeable cost to our customers for the repair, however, in a unit that is out of warranty and will require additional service calls to keep running, it is not very cost effective for the customer. Most of the time the customer will replace one or two units at a time, over a period of months.

[@thestuffz]

great video! I think you need to turn the overall video volume up a hair. Its a bit hard to hear on laptop.

[@Eddy63]

I bought some cheap external speaker's off Amazon for my Laptop , they work awesome ... Just sayin' ...

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Yes you are correct the volume was too low, I am trying to figure it out and get it fixed asap.

[@Takeithome345]

Just had the same thing same unit ! Them Thur wall connection!!!!

[@acechoice45]

Those units where made when York was the RTU Masters before JCI bought them out lol

[@MrS5x]

yes, and unfortunately the quality of the newer units has gone way down.

[@charadremur333]

Did the duct detectors fail or were they not installed? Why didn't they trip? I posted this before the video, he probably covered it.

[@for2utube]

Do you rebuild the connector? I imagine the proper crimp tooling costs a few hundred dollars.

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Nah I just removed the molex connector and ran all new wires

[@danielshannon167]

Now that it's 3 years later, did they end up replacing the units or did the heat exchangers manage to last?

[@DarkDoz]

Good job

[@cliftonwinkler1460]

awesome video

[@brs4389]

How did those air fresheners work? And how did you charge for the diagnosis? T&m?

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Air fresheners had the burning smell cleaned up in a few hours and I charged them t&m.

[@MrHarbinged]

@@HVACRVIDEOS What brand air fresheners ?

[@jimdamiani1823]

Would you share how much you charge per hour..Jim

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Clenair by nu calgon

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Right around a hundred per hour Jim

[@viralvideos6532]

Hope you took that unit with the burnt connector out of service. Also burning smells can absolutely occur if your Limit Switches are not working correctly. I would replace the Limit Switches on all the units as insurance, just because you touched the units. Did you do an Amp reading on all the Blowers?

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

If you watch the video all your questions will be answered

[@alexanderbrockus985]

So, I have a question of curiosity. I'm fairly new in the field. I've worked in HVAC for around three years, but only about a year or so of that has been in service. I worked for a small residential company first but have recently been hired by a large commercial company. My biggest struggle is patience. In residential, I felt like I was always being rushed through calls, and unfortunately I had a few call backs as a result. I know you say a lot to take your time, but how long is too long? I'm always worried that my supervisor is going to come down on me for taking too long on a call the way my last company did. He hasn't, but that lingers in my mind all the time. So, how do I find a balance between being thorough and getting it done?

[@Wdog84]

I have always been told to give your self an hour to try figure thing out, the company bills by the hour so take the first one and do what you can do, after that make a call if you are not close with all the info you have and go from there. That’s how I go by anyway

[@edwardgaddis8333]

Rule of thumb I've found amongst most techs is 30 mins to an hour then start calling veteran techs or manufacturers for help. Worst case see if a vet tech can make a fast stop on site get you on the right path. On site personal help be careful to sparingly use this privilage.

[@jonathanraul4086]

Nice video ty great job

[@hvactechpr7872]

that's a nice find...

[@HeroCaleb]

13:23. Were those the units that had the strongest smell?

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Kind of, the strong smell was actually the night before but I was able to pick up a bit of the smell in those units... it was a mystery for sure, but this was in 2018 and they haven't complained since so..... I will be going live on KZbin this evening 3-30-20 @5:PM (pacific time) to discuss my most recent uploads and answer questions. Come on over and check it out, if you can’t make the live show no worries as it will post as a normal video on my channel afterwards. kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaqrXqSKobqlkLs

[@dimitritrotsiuk3897]

Good video!!

[@andrewedis9907]

Why do these units have a dedicated heating section, rather than using the refrigeration unit as a "heat pump"?

[@FerralVideo]

I can think of a few reasons why they might not use heat pumps in this situation. > They're old units. Heat pumps were not very popular yet back in the 90's when these units were installed. > Climate. Heat pumps are not as effective if the winters get very cold. The refrigerant cycle loses efficiency and effectiveness, and the unit has to go offline more often for defrost, the colder the weather gets. If the unit has to run defrost mode too much, it actually becomes LESS efficient than just a straight heater, but I'm not an HVAC engineer, so I couldn't tell you at what point this happens. Additionally, all heat pumps have a dedicated heating unit in them to cover for when weather is too cold for the heat pump mode to work, or when it switches into defrost mode. You'll see this labeled as "Aux heat" or "Emergency heat" on your thermostat. During planning for installation, it's wise to decide whether your heat pump would spend more time in aux heat mode than in heat pump mode, and if it would, just buy a normal heater. They cost quite a bit less, especially on this scale. Don't get me wrong, heat pumps are great and I love them, I just realize that they're not a silver bullet that can solve every problem.

[@jeffgrant6914]

Nice video did you find out what it was ?

[@ejonesss]

it is possible that the insulation could be touching the hot heat exchanger and burning or the belt is getting hot and burning or lint or dust is cooking. it is possible that a motor is failing too

[@lucassheehan2200]

Just so I understand, the air fresheners fixed the issue?

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

No they helped with the burning smell

[@lucassheehan2200]

@@HVACRVIDEOS A little New England humor! I actually used the air freshener idea myself today after my motor went last night. Great video thanks for posting!

[@josh2232]

Hi I have a box window air conditioner and it smells like oil when I turn it on could you diagnose the problem ?

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Sorry bud not much I could do without being there

[@johnbod8415]

Another thing to watch for is the foil back insulation falls off and shorts out the high limit. Easy to find on down discharge, but a bitch if side discharge.

[@throttlebottle5906]

I know how that foil backing can cause a firework show or arcing and make a cloud of smoke... crazily wiring live, 20+ years ago and a wire(120-VAC) got away form me and hit the foil on a duct, POOF the flash wasn't much but the amount of smoke cloud and burnt foil was pretty bad and of course I had to monitor it for a few hours to be sure it didn't ignite anything invisibly.... yes i still wire live today, as I have done for over 25 years (120/240/208-3phase to neutral) forget 480/277Y that makes you land too far away and avoid DC over about 60V and anything else in the mix of it. only thing worse I've experienced is RF at 20 watts it's an instant nasty burn, at 500+ watts 3rd degree deep burns, not to mention being powered by very high voltages! pretty much know what your working on and dealing with or stay far away!

[@matthewgregory8218]

So your HVAC so do you get a service call from Ottawa if we have HVAC units ?

[@Tsiikki]

Well in that burnt connector, resistance goes up as it heats and starts to melt/burn. Self feeding disaster..

[@throttlebottle5906]

I wonder what that wire was feeding, possibly the draft inducer? maybe it was slowing down and causing the HE to overheat majorly. that would explain the "cooked" insulation and wire holders at the high limit/HE area. I'm surprised it wasn't having roll out at the burners or making the gas valves stay open and keep pushing flame into the HE? (should have had major roll out and burnt the whole gas valve area though). dispelling my own thoughts as I go =p

[@georgecurtis6463]

Its called being observant. Many folks dont have that abillity.

[@shakascloset1700]

The York plant that made those units was in my home town.

[@antoinettesmith6935]

Awesome

[@RubenKelevra]

I would add a AFCI per unit, just as a piece of mind. That breaker would just have turned the unit off without a fire department call and you would have known exactly which unit had an issue :)

[@alexanderdominguez4860]

I wish you were in miami florida!

[@jimdamiani1823]

Would you share how much you charge per hour in a situation like this or what the norm rate in your area is...Thx..Jim

[@dougpenrod8867]

I know you was busy sleeping but wouldn't been better to checkout that night the smoke issue when it was fresh and when manger was on duty and charge them emergency service also to do it just in case it didn't flare back up and recatch on fire

[@jeffgrant6914]

Nice video

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Thanks bud

[@michaelladue5655]

In a future video would you be so kind as to explain superheat in a little more detail?

[@LooseLoad]

Subtract the suction line pressure from the suction line temperature

[@michaelladue5655]

@@LooseLoad thank you

[@michaelgatien4277]

all this time I thought he was saying MAKE-A-BEAR :D lol searched all spellings; no results :D not realizing what the word REALLY was was Make-Up Air :D

[@frankbradley2852]

So if i may ask what was your solution for the burnt plug

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

I removed the plug and bypassed the entire thing with male and female quick disconnect fittings.

[@sergiodjf]

Probably it makes sense to install smoke detectors at the units the older they are...more things can go wrong with them. At least the unit will shut down before things get out of control

[@Rodzilla408]

What's up Chris great video. On that burnt plug did you fix the plug or left unit off? Keep up the great videos

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

I bypassed the entire plug

[@adrianthetechnician6014]

We have never had any issues with our York Millennials.

[@jaybrooks1098]

York even exist anymore? Didn’t colman buy them out in the 90’s?

[@rubencastillo9641]

On burned smell never garernty 2 costmer all is fine n safe sey fond a problem n was fixed no worrenty of fire safe put on writtig cus ull be liabale

[@gregmercil3968]

Speaking as a current graveyard shift worker, while watching this I kept thinking "well hey at least the sun's finally coming up!" 😂 Corny jokes aside, did you ever figure out the cause for that burnt out wire connector?

[@jlchvac9695]

the motor with the white powder is starting off with the hard drugs...

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Ha ha ! Thanks for watching

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Thanks for watching, I will be going live this evening 3/25/19 @5:PM (pacific time) on KZbin to discuss my most recent uploads come on over and check it out if you can... kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKLbXoWJf9icmrs

[@jcsimms4362]

I’d call the fire department and ask them some questions

[@coffeecoffee5914]

electrical burn.......magic smoke

[@_ohmz_electric]

I hate those white coated roofs. Slippery as fuck

[@refrigerationtechnology7858]

#truetech

[@engineer1793]

Electrical smells are the worse

[@MrHarbinged]

I like em, when you smell it there's no doubt what it is.

[@dylanmckevitt2003]

Go and fallow Dylan McKevitt

[@r-techservices9694]

What do you use for ur videos. Gopro? Also I ser that you use a computer to connect to some comtrols. Any program that you use?

[@dylanmckevitt2003]

What is your Instagram name

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

@hvacrvideos

[@dylanmckevitt2003]

Thank you I am in to HVAC so that is why I asked

[@adamshowers8420]

I heard alot of YORK A/C and Heaters are junk

[@TheJj787]

I hate this York Unit

[@johnwalker890]

Good job.