York to Kings Cross with Grand Central in 1st Class - is this small operator any good?

Grand Central are one of the small train operators in the UK that have carved out a niche to support travellers with a specific need for direct services to London from the North East stations that are not served by electric trains on the East Coast Mainline.
They provide the service using the Class 180 "Adelante" diesel-hydraulic 5-car units that have had quite a chequered past on UK railways. however, these units have been refurbished fairly recently and I needed to be heading back home from York. So why not give Grand Central a go?
Departure: York, England, UK
Destination: London King's Cross, England, UK
Distance: 303 km / 188.5 miles
Duration: 2 hrs 5 mins
Cost: 1st class advance single, with 1/3 railcard discount: £41.25 / €47,00
Date of Travel: February 2023
Operator: Grand Central by arriva
Motive power: Class 180 "Adelante" 5-car DMU. Built: Alstom (2001-2002)
Thank you to everyone that supports the channel by subscribing, liking, commenting or just watching these videos. I really appreciate it!

[@mabbas7841]

what i like more about your videos that its not just the services but also the extra historic information well done

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Thank you. That is very nice of you to say so. I'm pleased you enjoy the videos 👍

[@trailwayt9H337]

Sir Yoyr videos are absolutely very beautiful by your very excellent efforts ❤️

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Why, thank you very much for those kind words! And thank you too for watching 👍

[@Kulla1berg]

I think the idea of having a direct train from Sunderland and the sops , which I only recognised Hartlepool,to York and than directly to London is brilliant As you mentioned in the blog Hulltrain

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Yes. I can moan about the train itself and say LNER is nicer from York, but for people from those other towns up to Sunderland this is a really handy direct service to London.

[@nuinmarnuinmar5321]

I was a frequent traveller on GC for years and found them 'good enough' and they served some good places that wouldn't otherwise get a look in (Sunderland!). However, the services were often full to capacity and sometimes over subscribed as trains would randomly go out of service at York so that train load of passengers would pile on to the next GC train. The ride was always choppy and though the seats were comfortable, generally the whole thing just felt a bit tired and shabby and I had little confidence the poor old engines would get me where I wanted to go! So I switched to LNER and haven't looked back I'm afraid.

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Spot on I'd say. If I lived in the stops around Sunderland I would def use them. But from York, I don't think they are cheap enough to tempt me from LNER either. But they are "ok"...

[@nuinmarnuinmar5321]

@@JohnnyHooverTravels Agreed, the cost saving isn't worth it.

[@lovefive5733]

Thank you for uploading this video.

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

And thank you for watching! 👍

[@cryzcryz2345]

Thank you for this video!

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

and thank you for watching 👍

[@alexmcwhirter6611]

Thanks for producing the video Johnny. My concern withe the 180s is their reliability. Almost every day GC tweets to say one unit is out of service (which means several services have to be cancelled and GC cannot always get ticket acceptance with LNER).

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

They were always unreliable when they ran in the South West too. If you have a very small fleet, then reliability is key as they obvs don't have any redundancy in the system

[@electragaming4140]

@@JohnnyHooverTravels I think it had as much to do with the build quality, as build quantity. As I recall, fGW took ages to get them into service, due to reliability issues; something that aflicted most of the Alstom built stock (the Coradia - class 175 - fleet still seemingly having issues, even 20+ years after introduction).

[@Zulu-pv1oh]

Nice Footage of The Class 180 Adelante Also I Still Enjoy It Everytime Someone Say's About The 180 You'll Be Going Nowhere That Makes Me Laugh 😂

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Thanks. they have a bad name down in the South West due to problems they had when they were first built and I suppose a lot of that has still stuck with them. Thanks so much for watching 👍

[@jongmassey]

When's the TGV to Bourg Saint Maurice vid coming and will it include footage from the VIP deck at Follie?

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

You may get some TGV in a couple of weeks! And yes, there will be some bonus footage at some time in the future from Follie 😉

[@VladimirPutinIsGood]

The class 180s are Better Then The FGW IETs 👍

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

The seats are definitely better for sure! Thanks for watching 👍

[@VladimirPutinIsGood]

​@@JohnnyHooverTravels Also The Intercity Services Grand Central Do Between London Kings Cross Sunderland and Bradford Interchange Used To Be Operated By HST Set's Which Lasted Around 10 Years From 2007 Until 2017 When GC Retired Their InterCity 125 Set's and The Class 180s Replaced Them

[@colinriley123]

Liked the shots of station details, but the trip seemed uninspiring . A useful service for Sunderland etc, but for a leisure traveller like me didn’t cut the mustard . As you have said before, there has to be a sense of occasion, especially on this East Coast route. A visit to the York Tap might have made you more encouraging.

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

It was too early for a beer that morning! I'd had a few beers the night before with my daughter and her partner mind you. Yes, I shouldn't undersell my work, but I've probably done this trip "so you don't have to"... unless of course you've a need to do London/Sunderland - London/York then LNER are the better option imho

[@AndrewG1989]

I have been on Grand Central Class 180 Adelante with my Dad to York and it’s very nice. And the seats are so comfortable.

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

True the seats are comfortable, but the engine noise and general ride does give the impression of an older train design. Always a bit of a shame to run diesel "under wires", but I appreciate you need diesel to get to Sunderland.

[@electragaming4140]

​@@JohnnyHooverTravels The ability to run on electric power, where available, is another good reason why GC should really have upgraded to some form of class 800 derivative, a good while ago! As for the issue of having to run on diesel to Sunderland, really that's a bad case of "short termism" by Nexus; given that their Metro fleet is being replaced and buying in dual voltage (1.5kV DC/25kV AC) units would've made electrifying through to Sunderland (and beyond, to Newcastle) a lot easier...

[@Kulla1berg]

Little interesting with the flat crossing in Newark as it crossed the real east main line An the line Nottingham to Lincoln seems to even be a busy line Will you soon travel on the Dartmoor line as you live in Exter or has I miss understood it

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Yes, I've been waiting for a nice day to do the Dartmoor line. Was thinking of doing a loop that also includes the Barnstaple line and a couple of buses.

[@Kulla1berg]

@@JohnnyHooverTravels Sounds like an excellent spring trip

[@kevinellis8869]

We've got some Adelantes on the MML (ex Hull Trains) and I much prefer them to the Meridiens.

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Sadly I recall that Midland London tweeted this week that the last Class 180 service had run on the MML. I think you are stuck with the Meridians now...

[@NaenaeGaming]

Not any more you don’t! 2 Ex-EMR 180s have even ended up at Grand Central!

[@michaeljohndennis2231]

This could operate from York, Leeds, Manchester Victoria, Chester and on the North Wales Line to Holyhead

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

I suppose it could. Although these Adelantes are not generally well thought of, so it may look like a bit of a second class option.

[@britishrailway7777]

It's black and orange

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Fair enough. Thanks for watching 👍

[@sadtwat]

I really appreciate the technical information about the railway line, its infrastructure and history 👍 First Class catering on Grand Central is just terrible, how can they justify the additional cost over Second Class?

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

wrt catering - I suppose they can judge their marketing ie. whether they sell the seats OK. It certainly isn't LNER for sure. Thanks for watching 👍

[@hoof2001]

Also from Exeter and remember the short period when the Adelantes were foisted on us. Everyone loathed them from day one not least the train staff. I even had a protest letter published in the local paper. Happily the protests hit home and the 125s were back pretty sharpish. That morning service was always hell on wheels. Grand Central are welcome to them

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Yes. Used to be on the 5:50'ish Adelante departure so i could be in the office by 9 in London. Never a pleasant ride.

[@electragaming4140]

The Adelantes have always been rough riding sets. To be quite honest, I don't know why Arriva/Grand Central keep persisting with them, when IET derivatives seem to be the in thing with a lot of TOCs replacing trains...

[@michaelmacdonell4834]

IEC sets are extraordinarily uncomfortable. Much worse than the Adelante sets. Those damnable seats, for a start, and they're even on our new Intercity FLIRTs. Buttcutter sets.

[@electragaming4140]

@@michaelmacdonell4834 I'll have to take your word for how bad the IETs are; I've yet to experience travel on one. But, I do have personal experience of the Adelantes and, whilst the seats are lovely, the ride quality isn't; to the point where the some staff privately admitted they didn't like them and 1st class staff couldn't fill cups all the way up, because of how rough riding the sets were (this was one fresh from a works overhaul, as well). It's a shame to see that the Flirts are sullied by poor seating - their Dutch sisters wowed me with how smooth and comfortable they were, when I visited in 2019 - but that's what you expect from an industry controlled to a large extent by DfT...

[@michaelmacdonell4834]

@@electragaming4140 I've ridden in Pacers that have better seats, tbh. I'd like to take this trip to see what the ride is like on the ECML. I've only ridden on less well-maintained track, and didn't find it that scary, but then I wasn't eyeballing hot liquids in First Class!

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

It is a real shame that the Hitachi 80x series have been so sullied by the poor seating, especially in Std class. It makes it difficult to review everything else, though I have remarked in previous videos that I find the 80x series a bit jittery over about 115mph. I agree the Adelante diesel engines are particularly loud and the ride is not as good as those 80x sets (or indeed many other trains that have gone before like HST) Thank you all for watching and commenting 👍

[@electragaming4140]

@@michaelmacdonell4834 The less said about the seats in those Merseytravel sets, the better 😂 Oh, I wasn't the only one that weren't particularly happy with the quality of the class 180s; GC on-train staff have never been massivevly fond of them, either. To be quite honest, I don't get why, with all the orders for 800 series Hitachi sets flying around, GC didn't simply throw their lot in with that type; increasing the train length to 6 or 7 cars and specifying more comfortable seating, at the same time. The last time I travelled on the West Riding service, the train was full - even in First Class - so I suspect they could fill a 6 or even 7 car set, very easily!

[@williamdeypres1122]

Just back from a York - Kings Cross journey. Compared with LNER, this is a very poor 1st class experience. No first class lounge, airplane type seats traveling backward, knob on seat handle missing, power sockets did not work, No soap, water or drying in toilet. Limited complementaries. No sandwiches just a small pain au Choclate or crisps etc and drink. Not worth the money. Coming back with LNER we had plenty of good food and drink and proper table. Will not go Grand Central again.

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

I think that is fair enough. I think if you get a cheap deal from or to York it could be an option still, but there is no way the 1st class offering competes with LNER as you say. The chap i sat next to was from the North East and found the service handy for travelling to London without changes or interruptions so he could get some work done. Thanks so much for watching and commenting 👍

[@Rick1883]

Simply the worst set I have ever been on.

[@JohnnyHooverTravels]

Yeah, they are quite noisy for sure... thanks for watching 👍