You are WRONG about preamp noise!!! - (condenser vs dynamic mic preamp myth)

[@petermsull]

You have a gift both for simply explaining technical matters as well as excellent graphics/visuals.

[@keithgendler8727]

I learned something new today! Thanks, Julian. I had a teacher in school who put a poster on the wall saying, "Free knowledge: Bring your own container." I don't know exactly why, but your videos often remind me of that. Tschüss.

[@backspin6698]

Your videos should be mandatory for all home recording engineers. Great stuff. Thanks.

[@darkstareng]

This channel deserves to be more popular. More people need to understand the technology they use!

[@iggynub]

Too much SCIENCE BRUH. Record 'engineers' just use their feelings bro. You're absolutely right though.

[@dosplatosfoo]

I started this same experiment today, started searching for vids and a couple hours later am glad I landed here, thanks'

[@teashea1]

So well done. Intelligent. Articulate. Well explained.

[@christopherjames338]

You really have a knack for breaking down technical details into an easy to understand form-a really good signal that you know what you’re talking about. Thanks for all you do!

[@vikramjitbanerjeetuki]

You are the best no nonsense audio channel on KZbin 👍👍👍

[@Amin2159]

It reminds me of the classic formula of Cascading Noise Floor:- Nf (total) = Nf1 + [(Nf2 -1)/G1] + [(Nf3 -1)/(G1xG2)] + [... The trick is the first stage must have the lowest noise floor and high gain.

[@rjb7569]

And tomorrow kids, we expect you to have that formula memorized for Julian's quiz.

[@jameshoratio4702]

Your videos are so good man, you deserve more support

[@Izac1]

you are the best, the most worthy KZbin ever existed

[@dwftube]

Great work - I love the clear, understated fact-based presentation of JK's videos.

[@dmitriybelousov8128]

Again, if somebody is interested in some tech details. Noise voltages don't sum in a straightforward way like Va + Vb + Vc ... +Vz. It's impossible to calculate an absolutely accurate sum of two noises, but as a rule of thumb sqrt(Va*Va + Vb*Vb, etc) is used with adequate results. So what happens when we try to sum the noises and one of them is 12 dB (roughly 4 times) louder than another, a quite common situation, described in this video? sqrt(4*4 + 1*1) ≈ 4.1, which is ≈ 0.2 dB of extra noise, the higher noise source (4) is dominant and the lower noise source (1) doesn't affect the noise level significantly. With 6 dB (roughly 2 times) difference it is sqrt(2*2 + 1*1) ≈ 2.2, it's worse, ≈ 0.8 dB of extra noise, but it's far from the straightforward 2+1=3 ( ≈ 3.5 dB) anyway. The numbers were chosen for clarity, the real noise voltages are in the 0.00000... V area usually.

[@Audio-guy]

This probably answers the question I was going to ignorantly ask, of how come the noise of the preamp doesn't just add to the noise of the mic. It's because the mic noise is first in the chain and louder, so any softer noises after aren't added linearly. Because the physics of noise VOLTAGES getting added together isn't the same as what you'd get from hearing different audible noises added together in a room. Do I have that right?

[@hanapa]

Perfecly nailed. I refer to you very regularly in our french speaking weekly show "Les Sondiers" about sound recording. Your reviews are really the best. Many thanks for the superb work

[@thebusinessfirm9862]

Nice jumper, Julian. Merry Christmas, mate. Thanks for making this fabulous video. Steve.

[@innercynic2784]

I've been "educated" today. Wonderful explanations that definitely help me to better understand.

[@somebodyx]

What you discuss in this video is the headamp concept in low noise electronics design. The first amplification stage or "head" noise spec dominates over the next stage's even if it has three times higher gain than the heading stage. More than three times the head gain coming after it, starts to slowly allow extra noise to mix in.

[@somebodyx]

For example if the condenser mic has 20dB amplification inside it, even 3X or 60dB in the sound interface will not allow it to play an extra role in the system's noise.

[@Olivierd.s]

Amazing video's that u are putting out, Julian. No blah blah about sponsors, just straight to the point, also very calm and pleasant to listen to. Very detailed reviews, etc. Also, everything is explained simply so that, we, people who don't know that much about audio understand it. I can say much more positive things. Because of that I subscribed to you! Keep up the good work Julian!

[@ColonelDingus]

Discovered your channel yesterday and immediately subbed. The quality of your videos is second to none. The detailed explanations and testing are quite impressive. Would love to see some sort of interface “tier list” or “recommendations” video from you! Cheers, and thanks for the great work

[@TigDegner]

5:15 it's worth mentioning that recorders like Olympus LS-12, Tascam DR-40, and Zoom H4n that are popular among amateur musicians, nature recordists, and videographers, have an EIN well above -120 dBu. Ok with reasonably sensitive and high-output mics, but if you're recording from something like an SM7B or NTG2 it's important to get levels right or your SNR can drop precipitously. Especially relevant to people like wedding videographers who may be running solo and have minimal time to set levels - or may not even get a sound check. That's clearly not the target audience for this video but some of those folks may see this and get the wrong impression. That said, the bigger issues are usually mic placement, ambient noise, and mic self-noise.

[@davemorphling7432]

any idea what the EIN number is for those, as well as onboard sound card?

[@EdBurnette]

Thanks!

[@JulianKrause]

Thank you too! :)

[@HarryShares]

I NEVER MISS MOST OF YOUR NEW VIDEOS. THANKS FOR THE "ALWAYS GREAT VIDEO" JULIAN Vielen Dank

[@Leonidas909]

Wonderful video as always. The big take away here is the fact that, as you said, almost all the time, a line leveled Dyn is gonna have a way higher noise floor than a Condenser due to the Conds being louder by default and higher dynamic range. Add to that the lack of treble the Dyns often have and how obvious the noise becomes if you ever shelve them, I almost never recommend dyn mics for relatively quiet signals like most people voices for example, and never in a broadcast environnement where compression is gonna be necessary.

[@ceilingsandfloors]

There's a lot of overlap in noise floor between cheaper SDCs and hotter dynamics. For example a Beta 58a at 290ohms and brought up to line level (+51.5dBV) would have a noise floor of -78dBv (trusting you don't have a noisy preamp) which is the same as that of a Shure SM81 (the SM81s figure is A-Weighted so it's likely even higher than that). The SM81 isn't even as noisy other popular lower-end SDCs like the AKG 451B or the Octava MK012.

[@Leonidas909]

@@ceilingsandfloors Some SDC truly are noisy. The DT797PV i'm using right now for instance. Tho It's VERY preamp dependant, and not necessarily a preamp noise floor thing. But they usually have a friendlier top end than most dyns, needing less EQing/potentially boosting the noise in bad places

[@Oblium]

I need a Julian Krause in my pocket. Everyone needs one!

[@devanois]

Thanks a lot, I learned how to compare sounds using the ENR (equivalent noise ratio,or self noise).

[@kenzingzong6704]

3 minutes in I was brought back to reality. I've been struggling so hard to design a stereo mic preamplifier based on input transformers of all things only to start pulling hair out over which opamps input stage really lowered noise floor. This of course is also considerations that must be made for discrete electronics like individual transistor stages or tubes. Reality is people are of two fields here, musical, or wanting to hear a fly fart properly from 20' away using the cleanest known audio path. Doesn't mean you should give in to hiss though, that's usually a fault of design or cheapening, or a mistake in understanding your equipment and impedance matching.

[@ekumusicYT]

I recently made a test between my old RME Fireface UCX interface (-129dbu EIN) versus my Zoom H6 (-120dbu EIN). Recorded with two NTG-2 mics very close to each other, equal distance from me, maybe around 20-30cm away. I gained them both to peak at about -12db when I was talking. Pulled the clips into reaper, volume normalized them and was shocked that the H6 sounded identical to my ears. The noise floor was exactly the same between the two and the overall sound and frequency response sounded exactly the same to my ears. That's when I really realized that what Julian had talked about a lot really is true, and shows how my old Zoom H6 sounds as great as the highest end audio devices out there when used with condenser mics (I use condenser mics 100% of the time since I record location sound for my films) 😅👍🏻

[@lizardpeter]

Great info! I am getting sick of the slight hum/buzz from the noise floor of my Shure SM7b. I'm thinking of switching to the Rode NT1 Gen 5 now.

[@tonyrapa-tonyrapa]

Thanks Julian. Great info as always. How about a video dedicated to the differences between the different kinds of microphones: their specs and applications?

[@scottspaulding7965]

Great vid my man. Why we use cloud lifters. Even with high end interfaces it helps with dynamic mics.

[@MarceloFernandezMusic]

Great video and explanation as usual 👏👏👏

[@lilianweiss2028]

Endlich jemand, der ein Colette für Sprachaufnahmen nimmt! Danke für das Video und den Vergleich. Das Schoeps klopft einem ja wirklich die Konsonanten in den Kopf, das SM7b klingt wie Pudding dagegen. Mal meditieren, was ich lieber mag...

[@aeonlancer]

Who cares about a Schoeps MK41? or an RN17?

[@KloderTX]

Thanks! I've been wondering about this for some time, as I'm using a Steinberg UR44C, which I noted in your previous tests is (or the 22C sibling) has one of the worst noise specs, and is often used in your comparisons, like this. Yet, I don't detect a disturbing level of noise in the recordings. Surprise, most of my recordings are just condenser mics, or maybe 2 condensers and a dynamic, which I suppose still gets trumped by the noise from the condensers.

[@jahstafari4606]

You is best of best ...thanks ....most professional explanations in shortest time possible

[@rickbiessman6084]

You hoped I learned something new today? I did indeed! Thanks man!

[@ceilingsandfloors]

If you have an interface that can't take much signal without clipping and you have to turn the gain down a lot to where the EIN ends up much worse it can add a bit of noise to a condenser at least those with a high sensitivity and low self noise.

[@TheRandomINFJ]

4:02 sick diagram 🤜🤛 well done overall 😃

[@matthewnew13]

You’re so good at explaining everything

[@RocknRollkat]

Excellent presentation, thank you ! Bill P.

[@ForsakenAngel236]

Very interesting, Julian. Thanks for sharing

[@adimology]

Hi Julian, just half an hour before watch this video, I have my Rode NT1a and Shure SM57 recording in a dry channel and comparing the noise.. what you said is totally true! If you use a dynamic mic, use a better preamp. If you use a condenser mic, use a better self noise microphone.. :D But I have a problem here, I tested both microphone (NT1a and SM57) to find which is better to reduce "Ambient noise". I have a lot of ambience noise from a road nearby even I've soundproofed my room with some Roxul insulation (not the ceiling though, not yet) I make an asmr unboxing video so it's a big problem for me. Using a dynamic cardiod microphone (sm57) does not solve the problem as my test today say so.. ambient noise only reduce by 3-4 db but the preamp noise is quite a big jump Is the only solution for my problem is to use a hypercardiod microphone? I know some condenser hypercardiod microphone such as samson C02 but the self noise is -22dBa... do you have any suggestion for me? THanks a lot!

[@hanapa]

Not sure a hypercardioid will solve your issue without adding other problems: Hypercardioid microphone do pickup some sound at the rear of the microphone and that may not suit your needs and also have a significant proximity effect (extreme bass amplification when you are close to the capsule). Maybe you could consider using a dynamic microphone (to naturally reduce the ambiant noise) that has a fairly high outpul level (to compensate for the preamp noise). A microphone such as the Prodipe TT1 has a much higher output level as the SM57 and costs next to nothing. Or you could try the Aston Element that has a very special capsule to provide the behavior of a dynamic microphone with a high output level and excellent high end that you usually lack with dynamic microphones

[@arash5550]

Hey Julian can u shed some light(maybe in future) about dynamic and condenser mic spl and how much pressure dynamic vs condenser mic can handle. Which is the key for condenser mic for having more details I believe. Anyway Love u 💞

[@techmed-rainer]

Very nicely explained 👏 Thank you very much, Julian!

[@aristotle_4532]

If you are using a cheap handheld recorder with a high EIN and a very low noise condenser, the noise may be doubled. With the very sensitive small diaphragm condensers the same preamp will not contribute a significant amount of noise. A modern home studio card, even a 200 euro one, will not add significant noise to any microphone. The noise contribution of the preamp and the signal per noise of a specific sound pressure level can be calculated from the specification of preamps, dynamic and cardioid mics.

[@Delbs1]

Damn, thats so nice to see! I definetly learned something new today, killer content as always!

[@AleksiJoensuu]

The noise level on the Steinberg is just mad in comparison to many of the others. Especially because I gather Steinberg (And Yamaha who owns them) is a generally respected brand. And the form factor and the price is basically the same as many others. I actually have a rather old Steinberg CI2+ as a backup interface. It's stupidly simple and just works plug and play at least on windows computers. I haven't even attempted to measure it's noise performance when I've had it connected - I've used it with condenser mics in meetings and calls and it hasn't been noticeable, but then in a meeting no-one's listening to that small amount of noise even if there is any.

[@kenwebster5053]

Well, to fairly compare microphone self noise, you have to adjust the noise spec using the sensitivity spec, to bring everything to the same target signal level, say 0 VU. I'd like to see someone explain the maths for that, especially as the sensitivity spec is defined in a couple of different formats. It would be nice to have a full & reliable explanation on how to convert these things. Ta

[@TheFinalRevelation2]

how much did you boost in db for the audio at 1:59 ?

[@braintube76]

Julian, you are soooo awesome! Thank you!

[@norbertriman1569]

Need help. I hoocked Behringer xenyx 1202 USB to my Huawei P20pro and will livestream/video recording of my rehaersal(2xguitars, bass, singing, drums from EZD, but sound in video, or streaming is mono. Any apps or what can help? Is not compatible. I cant find it on net. Thnx. You make great videos 👍

[@jacksmith4460]

There was a difference, there is a spike in noise at around 6-8 kHz (in the white noise signal) with the Steinberg pre amp that is not present in the other example, the rest of the noise sounded the same though I have no opinion on preamps, just saying what I hear I get how due to the 60 Db increase the effect is grossly multiplied, I agree there was no noticeable difference with the Voice audio switch

[@slayabouts]

Could we get a spreadsheet of all the measurements of the different interfaces? I’d pay some monies for it

[@janjahrademusic]

Cheers and kudos to you and your uploads mate,, very informative thanks much for that.. One question though just want your opinion since i'm soon going to purchase a new audio interface about the price of a motu m2 .. what would you recommend for mainly vocal recordings? thanks much!

[@jimshaw899]

True and well explained. Still, there is the issue of condenser mic self-noise. Very low self-noise is a feature of expensive condenser mics. I have noticed that inexpensive condenser mics have a wide variation of self-noise, even within the same make and model. There isn't such an issue with dynamic or ribbon mics when you have very quiet and high gain preamps in your mixing or audio interface. Pay me now, or pay me later. ;)

[@gregsimmons1709]

There isn’t much correlation between a condenser microphone’s noise and its price, meaning low noise is *not* a feature of expensive condenser microphones. For example, Røde’s NT1 has a stated noise of 4.5dAB and costs only $299 US (and that’s in a kit with shock mount and pop filter). Lewitt Audio’s LCT540 Subzero is currently the quietest mic on the market at 4dBA, and costs $699 US (again, sold with shock mount and pop filter). Neither of those could be called ‘expensive’ and yet they’re the two quietest microphones on the market at this point in time. Meanwhile, Earthworks QTC30 has a noise of 20dBA and costs $799, Neumann’s classic U87 Ai has 12dBA of noise in cardioid mode and costs $3650 US, and Neumann’s latest revision of the U67 has 17dBA of noise in cardioid mode and costs $7225 US. So more money does not mean less noise… [All prices here are from B&H’s webstore.] There are two noise sources within a condenser microphone. The first is Brownian noise (named after botanist Robert Brown, nothing to do with colour), which is due to air particles randomly rubbing against the diaphragm. It sounds rather like white noise passed through a very steep low pass filter, considerably darker than pink noise. Then there is thermal noise (the classic white noise style of ‘hiss’) which is related to the impedances of the mic’s internal circuitry and the temperature. The total noise coming out of the microphone is the combination of both, and to accurately represent that the term ‘Equivalent Noise Level’ is often used in preference to ‘self noise’ in contemporary specifications. Although there is no significant correlation between noise and price, there *is* a significant correlation between noise and diaphragm surface area. If we double the surface area of the diaphragm (and keep all other parameters the same), we’ll get twice as much Brownian noise and twice as much signal. The Brownian noise is uncorrelated, so doubling the diaphragm’s surface area creates an increase of 3dB (i.e. x √2) more Brownian noise. The captured signal is correlated, so doubling the diaphragm’s surface area creates an increase of 6dB (i.e. x 2) more signal. End result: double the diaphragm’s surface area and get 3dB more Brownian noise but 6dB more signal. So the signal going into the impedance converter circuit is 6dB stronger while the Brownian noise going into the impedance converter is only 3dB stronger. In other words, a higher amplitude signal with 3dB better S/N ratio going into the mic’s impedance converter. The microphone gets lower noise and higher sensitivity; the latter meaning it outputs a larger signal and therefore requires less preamp gain (technically the noise from the preamplifier is there but it’s not very significant compared to the noise from the condenser microphone itself, and especially less significant compared to a higher sensitivity condenser that requires less gain). The NT1 and LCT540 Subzero are large diaphragm mics (around 25mm), which is part of how they achieve their low noise. The QTC30 diaphragm is tiny in comparison, which is why it has such high noise. Similarly, DPA’s 4060 has a noise of about 23dBA and a diaphragm of around 5mm. So why bother with small diaphragms? The advantages of very small diaphragms are higher SPL handling and excellent off-axis response. As we make the diaphragm larger we get less noise but also reduced SPL handling and worse off-axis response (the microphone becomes increasingly directional as the frequency gets higher because the diaphragm itself literally gets in the way of very high frequencies). Rough late night examples, but the point is that price and noise aren’t really connected. Diaphragm surface area and noise are, however…

[@jimshaw899]

@@gregsimmons1709 Well marketing spec sheets are one thing, but then there's experience. Low self noise is a costly thing to guarantee, with consistency and quality control being big factors. If marketing spec sheets were what mattered, we'd have a lot more $40 "studio quality" condenser mics selling to big name recording studios.

[@HaitIsHere]

This was such an eye opener

[@sergeybegaikin4364]

Еhis is the video I've been waiting for a long timeю Thank you very much, Julian

[@danielrobinofficial]

Thank you for sharing such high level info. Great video.

[@tricogustrico]

Things are so much better today than yesteryear when we used tape and analog mixers.

[@thomasowens3135]

How about a video on the best overall interface so far from what you’ve tested?

[@beatsbycolorblind2]

thanks for knowledge Julian

[@evergreatest7644]

Probably irrelevant, but when you were speaking in the condenser mic, I could hear the click and pop noises made by your tongue, but I couldn't hear them when you were speaking in the SM7B. I found that fascinating.

[@NealMiskinMusic]

But the thing is, it's most common to find dynamic mics on loud sources (drums, amps, etc) and condensers on quieter things like acoustic string instruments and vocals, so it generally works out that noise isn't a huge deal most of the time with either type of mic. If you put some tubes in the circuit though you're definitely going to get a bit of noise regardless of what type of mic you use, but it's generally worth it. :-)

[@nobodynoone2500]

Tubes just make the noise nice harmonic noise. ;-)

[@oldman1517]

“physics and stuff” 😂 Very helpful, ❤️ your videos!

[@kirkp_nextguitar]

You’ve done some great tutorials on microphone sensitivity and noise, but have you done any on the topic of how to select the most appropriate microphone sensitivity and dynamic range for various recording situations (e.g., rock bands vs. orchestra vs. vocalist vs. field recording)?

[@nickgoogle4525]

Julian, at 4:39 you show a graph of the noise of some microphones - you say calculated noise. Therefore it seems you used the specification data for that calculation, right? Or did you use some measured results? Because "on paper" the SE8 has only a self noise of 13dB -- the same like the Neumann KM184. But in your graph you show a much higher noise for the SE8. This correlates well to my practical tests. I have the AKG C391B which has a self noise of 17 dB. In your graph the self noise is higher than the KM184 -- which it should be. But the AKG in your graph shows a much lower noise than the SE8, which in my real world experience is true, but is not seen in the specifcation sheet. So what is the explanation for that? I'd love to hear an answer. Maybe also a nice idea for another video!? 😀

[@ikbalaydin80]

Many many thanks for the info 🤗👍

[@shpakovd]

How to remove noise from SM7B + FETHED + DBX286? Thx 🙏🏻

[@DrWurzeli]

replace the SM7B with something that has a higher sensitivity and less self-noise.

[@doctor9228]

Ty for your videos, very interesting and great quallity of videos itself.

[@augustwhite4630]

Decided to comment under this video again for better visibility: Hello Julian. I am currently recording on a 10y old Scarlet 2i2 1Gen and want to upgrade to something more professional (had a few songs on the radio and my interface is really lacking). I now have the chance to buy a used (1y old) UAD Apollo Solo Interface (with classic collection plugins) from a local recording studio and was wondering if it is worth the higher price point when compared to other (cheaper) interfaces (eg. Audient iD 14, SSL2/2+ or even UADs own Volt 276). To be clear - I am looking to buy something that will serve me well for another 8-10 years of my musical journey (so I would rather pay a little more and be satisfied than having to spend more down the read). Thank you very much in advance and all the best!

[@tedrackley6233]

Hi Julian, when you tested the original Focusrite Clarett 2Pre, your testing showed great results regarding dynamic range on the mic inputs and line outputs, with poorer results regarding mic pre noise and it’s headphone output. I recently purchased the new Focusrite Clarett+ 2Pre. It sounds so great that I feel like I bought new studio monitors. Focusrite claims they have improved it’s specifications with a new, different ADC/DAC chipset and headphone output. I’d be curious to see your results when testing the new one, as I have been very impressed so far with subjective listening.

[@jenshendriks9092]

people worry too much about preamp noise anyways. -130dB noise floor? I remember not being able to hear -50 in my daw on solo, let alone in a mix. Noise is usually close to white noise, which pretty much always get's lost in a mix until the mix is not dense (like a piano and vocal duo). My analog gear produces at least 20x the noise of the boring ultra linear home recording equipment shown here but I enjoy the sound of an overdriven mic pre with an aggressive compressor. Even if it's noisy as hell.

[@goatsnaggler]

Can you review Slate's Virtual Mic's??? THat woud be awesome

[@skakdosmer]

In some people's opinion the Zoom H4n was bad with the Røde NTG-2, whereas the NTG-2 was fine with some other recorders, and the Zoom H4n was fine with some other condenser microphones. I do not own the NTG-2, but I do own the Zoom H4n. I haven't, however, been able to find any specs on its preamps. But if those "some people" can be trusted, it seems that sometimes preamp noise does matter with some condenser microphones. (And as "some people" in this case are named Curtis Judd, I do tend to trust their views).

[@bartoszpiszczek]

Formula to calc noise floor of condenser microphone based on specification: [Equivalent noise level] + [Sensitivity in dBV] + 2,2 dB - 94 dB (2,2 dB comes from conversion from dBV to dBu) For example SE Electronics SE8: Sensitivity: 25 mV / Pa (-32 dBV) Equivalent noise level: 13 dB Substitution into formula: 13 dB + (-32 dBV) + 2,2 dB - 94 dB = -110,8 dBu Am I right with calculations?

[@gochurra5702]

Thank you very much!

[@shahabsharafi3434]

thanks Julian! you are a myth breaker 😎👊

[@BeGoodNow5]

Your the dude! Thanks for the info.

[@humanitarianbombings]

Thank you for this!!!

[@richardmcarthur40]

Always informative, thanks man

[@musicshorts_]

great video! love this channel

[@inlovewithtm]

Stellar explaining as always

[@MichaelW.1980]

I would believe, that the self noise of the microphone is always on top of the preamplifier self noise - as the input of the microphone noise isn’t drowned by the noise floor of the interface.

[@mikeschilli1088]

Interesting, but when I recently hooked up my Shure SM81-LC mic to a Tascam DR-40x, the latter added a very audible noise level to the recording, compared to my previous Focusrite Scarlett Solo (3rd gen) setup with the same mic. Does that mean that the noise added by the DR-40x is "unreasonable", as you've explained? Also, do you have a favorite portable audio recorder which I could replace the DR-40x with? Thanks for all your videos, they're super valuable.

[@powersliding]

brilliant explanation

[@shubhshinde4438]

Please please make a video on RME babyface pro fs

[@sirnigelcogs]

Excellent video. Very well explained.

[@HungryForTastyFoodAndComicArt]

AaaaaaAAAAAaaaghhhhhhhh! Bandrew's head is gonna implode! 🤯

[@xmintmusic]

Hi Julian! Any plans on doing a review of the new Clarett+ interface?

[@pauldean3804]

Another great video , Thank you !

[@RecordingBlog]

Well done Julian - thumbs up :-)

[@imagine9033]

Great. Thanks

[@dariuszmikolajczyk1]

Hey Julian, how did you calculate the mics’ dbu(A) levels from their self noise? What’s the formula? Great video - as always 👍🏻👍🏻

[@JulianKrause]

For condenser mics you can look up the equivalent input noise in their spec sheets and for dynamic mics you would need to calculate it. I have roughly shown this in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYGbcn2ui8qji6c

[@HungryForTastyFoodAndComicArt]

Of course, the compression which youtube adds alters what we "hear" in the examples as well, which must be taken into account. And with youtube, if listening on a laptop's speakers, the difference between a Lewitt Sub Zero and a TLM 103 (on a youtube clip) will not be readily discernible to the average listener "listening" on a current iteration of a decent laptop, vs good earphones or monitors, but all-that-aside, I love this video! [edit] the Lewitt sub-zero and TLM 103 have verifiable 'super low" self-noise compared to other condenser mics, and I feel that should be recognized for this discussion.

[@noisedreams659]

how about when direct recording instruments

[@przybylskipawel]

Hi Julien! I have a following problem: I sometimes use battery powered Rode NT-4 stereo mic as an on-top camera mic for simple music recording. I used it with Sony ZV-1 and Panasonic GH5S without any issue with a DIY 5-pin-XLR cable that has resistors removed instead of stock dampened cable that reduces signal strength by 12dB with some 1kOhm resistors. Thanks to that I get stronger signal and better noise performance. However, when I recently plugged that mic with that cable into the GH6, camera started to give overheat warning after several minutes and shut off despite being clold to touch. After a while I realised that the mic preamp must have overheated due to I/O impedance mismatch. Before it shut off the audio signal was clean, and when I used dampened cable there was inacceptable amount of noise. How can I manage this problem. Can I use some device that would increase impedance somewhere without introducing too much noise?

[@joesalyers]

Julian I have always wondered about something and maybe you could answer this, how much does the dither type found in the converter chip effect the type of noise you get from an interface? Paul Frindle who designed the first large studio mixing console called the Oxford console (Sonnox plugins are an offshoot of Frindle's work) along with George Massenburg tested different dither types and came to the conclusion that a flat triangle dither gave better noise floor performance compared to exotic shaped noise. My question is do you think the dynamic range of modern audio interface are so low that this isn't an issue any longer or do you think that some of the noise (not all) we hear today in is partially different dither algorithms from the codec chip? I'm a huge fan of your channel by the way!!!

[@PileOfEmptyTapes]

Your question is almost two decades late - I think the last ADC chips with fancy dithering options came out in 1997, and all parts introduced since the early 2000s have been straight 24-bit (and lately 32-bit) out. Since then, dither is (or may be) applied in the mastering stage in software, when it comes to creating 16-bit output for CD. If you set your audio devices to 16-bit in or out, chances are samples will just be truncated. At full bit depth, what you hear will be plain analog noise. I've tried a fair few dithering algorithms, and I think I may have come across a possible reason for reservations against shaped dither... the shaped dither could have a rather nasty peak right around the area where human hearing is most sensitive to noise (4-10 kHz), poking out well above the flat dither spectrum. The most audibly benign one I've come across is Foobar2000's heavily perceptually shaped dither, as accessible when using its converter. Using an audio player for mastering may not be overly convenient but you can also get a highly optimized SoX-based resampler DSP for it so you may at least be able to kill two birds with one stone. It be noted that dither and 0dBFS+ levels do not mix, as dithering assumes linearity. Keep true peak below 0 dBFS, with dithering on you can definitely afford it. As an aside, lossy data reduction formats (MP3, AAC etc.) generally use floating point arithmetic and as such can be encoded from higher precision data. Later Minidisc recorders seem to have supported encoding ATRAC from 20-bit input, DCC could do 18 bit recording then, and retro activists have managed to even stuff 24-bit samples into its MPEG layer 1 audio recently (though I don't think any DCC deck ever had more than a 20-bit DAC). This may seem silly but does mean that lossy formats support higher total dynamic range than CD audio (which, mind you, is generally twiddling its thumbs as-is, given that its capabilities already exceed those of practical listening environments).

[@JulianKrause]

PileOfEmptyTapes and you made some good points. The reason you do not need any dither even for 24 bit in modern sigma delta converters is that they do not capture the signal in PCM but rather in a single or multibit stream that runs at much higher sampling frequencies (actually quite similar to DSD). These converters have high amounts of quitisation noise but this is pushed entirely out of the audible range resulting in an extremly high usable dynamic range. The thermal noise in the converter is often the limiting factor for the noise floor providing essentially natural dither. When the captured bitstream is converted to 24 bit PCM there is simply no dither needed. But most ADCs have the option to add dither, when they are set up to output 16 bit PCM as this can improve the usable dynamic range of the otherwise limited 16 bit format. Tbh, the dynamic range of ADCs and DACs these days is so big that it is often more likely to hear other noise like ambient noise or inherent noise of the mic or preamp.

[@JULIOAIS]

do I need a Tamayo pre-amp in Arturia CM1 mic?

[@Viettzz]

Nice video man! so for a small budget between $200-$500, which Audio Interface do you think is the best?

[@jaredholton3145]

Julian, Something I have been stumped by for sometime now is noise when using electric guitars into the instrument input of preamps. I am specifically running a focusrite scarlett 18i8 2nd gen into a mac mini. Using the same signal chain saturation into a guitar cab IR, a real amp (with no noise gate) at the same relative preamp gain is WAAAYYYY quieter than an amp sim providing same amount of gain. I suspect this is because the real amp is amplifying the clean signal while the audio interface is receiving a clean signal but is being converted from analog to digital before it actually hits the amp sim. The noise floor in the amp sim world drives me absolutely crazy. Just curious if you might have any suggestions on working with amp sims in the digital domain. Thank you and so grateful for all the work you've done providing information for the community!

[@GingerDrums]

This is why I use gefell M930 and DPA microphones thanks to their incredibly low noise floor.