You don't need to be a USPSA GM with Matt Pranka, Ben Stoeger & Mike Pannone

[@GWOTalchem]

Less than 1% of active military combat members are as well trained on individual actions as Delta. Yet they are effective in combat. CQB will get you killed if you don’t have support, avoid at all cost as a civilian. Focus, on clearing malfunctions, having smooth ( not fast ) reloads, and general marksmanship. No one expects a citizen militia or CCW responder to be as trained as Army SF. Train, make progress, don’t worry about instagram.

[@SuperTFRO]

Nothing worse than a fast reload.

[@GWOTalchem]

@ 8 years 4 deployments, zero speed reloads. Pretty sure pranka has a video talking about this as well.

[@felixdewinter3484]

I don’t expect citizen militias to be a thing at all in the public space. If that’s the case, our society has taken a toll for the worst.

[@GWOTalchem]

@@felixdewinter3484 agreed, however go read the 2nd amendment. “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state” if you want freedom and security you need to be equipped and capable of military level violence, just as baseline, without any specific threat. Separately, are you implying it’s more likely a civilian will do a high risk hostage rescue mission, than operate as a local armed citizen group? If a civilian is going to own guns and train ( like I think they should ) should they train like they are delta or regular infantry or an unsupported gorilla unit? What military units best resemble what an armed citizen is? It’s not a CAG hostage rescue team.

[@felixdewinter3484]

@ it’s called joining the National Guard since that is the modern militia of today as codified by the Dick Act of 1903. Anything else a civilian does outside of joining the National Guard and wearing a uniform that says US Army on it is illegal and domestic terrorism at its worst. Cope.

[@belladonnatook4117]

Nobody really wants to answer the “real” question. What is good enough? B class is probably good enough. A class is good enough for sure. If you’re just talking hard skills.

[@sofit]

@@belladonnatook4117 it's never good enough, always push to be the best you can be

[@belladonnatook4117]

That is always the answer given but it avoids the question. Because we can reasonably say what isn’t good enough, thus setting a threshold for what is good enough is reasonable. And EVERYONE does it, LE, MIL all have quals.

[@ACGBLR]

I would add, when you are consistently applying fundamentals without focuing on them them too much.

[@s23900]

@@sofit Are you A or B class?

[@GTAmerc]

I don't think there IS a "good enough" because there's not a very solid guarantee of the skill level or even the type of threat you may be facing. Your opponent could be right behind Ben in terms of skill and speed and you just don't know, until you know. I think the "real" question is "Is going in that building worth dying over?" regarding CQB.

[@Project_1868]

CQB is out of my lane but if I was military or LE (I’m retired from both), I would be diving into USPSA to get classified, have something to practice/dry fire for, and shake out my gear. C class would be the minimum goal. SWAT or Combat Arms? Find a CQB mentor who knows what’s up.

[@oldirtyshinobi420]

I don’t have enough pedigree for this conversation.

[@user-ed5jh3ff6u]

Ask about the 400 meter red dot range

[@DudeNamedDad]

Speaking strictly about competitive shooting, I wonder at what level does it become more about the sport and less about the marksmanship. Meaning you have the marksmanship skill necessary, but you now need to dive into competition specific mechanics and skills like stage planning to continue to progress.

[@jake50461]

People always think a GM requires competition specific training. It certainly does not. It’s simply execution of the basics at high speed. Most classifiers are stand and shoots requiring no planning. Just my two cents as a USPSA master.

[@DudeNamedDad]

@ valid point on the classifiers. I was more thinking about competing at a M or GM level rather than the classifier.

[@jake50461]

@@DudeNamedDad that certainly requires decent stage planning and the ability to task switch quickly. Most classifiers don’t really reflect actual match skills super closely.

[@belladonnatook4117]

A giant hole in most dudes general game. General fitness, strength, and grappling. Like church security, I’ll take fit, strong, jitz or wrestler over A class all day.

[@hawkgeoff]

So a guy comes into church, hell bent on delivering evil, with an AR and you'd rather a jiu jitsu black belt face him rather than an A class pistol competitor??? smh...

[@alexmiller1943]

Apples to oranges man. I’m a blue belt and have done a good amount of combatives shit over years but I’d rather have an A class dude take a shot down a hallway on an opposing force than me. This stuff is so contextual that bringing up “I’d rather have X than Y” is totally arbitrary and usually just someone putting their preferences and justifying their lack of skill in a certain area. As a bouncer I’d rather take someone who doesn’t train but can talk their way out of anything and is incredibly reliable over an IBJJF world champion but really, we’re trying to get good at everything and it’s gonna be that way forever. The way you’re going about your analysis is just too arbitrary.

[@belladonnatook4117]

I was on church security for 10 years. Nothing arbitrary about it. Guns, guns, guns, when what we actually dealt with was medicals, autism, mental issues, drugs and alcohol. And none of them could shoot, none. It was frustrating. Focusing on wild “what ifs.” The what ifs never got any of them to train and become good shooters.

[@hawkgeoff]

@@belladonnatook4117 well then it sounds like they didn't need to be armed at all... This thread was about how good do you need to be able to shoot. We don't live in an ideal world where everyone on a church security staff can be a former CAG operator with extensive medical... but go ask the baptist church in Southerland Springs how wild the "what if" I layed out is... smh.

[@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw]

I just heard the dumbest advice from a GM on Veloxs channel. Guys can shoot a classifier really well and think they know everything. GMs are not untouchable. And they certainly dont know everything.

[@peytongoehring1934]

Are you talking about Lane Gries or the video about high mounts?

[@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw]

​@peytongoehring1934 Lane Gries. I understand what he's saying, but he's telling people not to focus on an easy time saver. The draw is one of the easiest things to save time on. He no longer focuses on the draw, because it's not important to him. Then in my opinion, he better be making sub second 30 yard shots.

[@joeclose5807]

@most stages have you moving into position from the start, a fast draw isn’t as important if you’re drawing and immediately moving and not shooting. A fast draw is good for classifiers because a lot of the are “stand and deliver”. But a typical stage it’s not a priority to have a fast draw

[@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw]

​@@peytongoehring1934 I just don't understand that mentality. I'm always trying to improve. It didnt take me very long to beat GMs at local matches even with bad footwork. I got there with a fast draw, fast splits and decent transitions.

[@belladonnatook4117]

Most high level guys are way more interested in hitting their grip than draw speed. Draw speed really only matters on stand and deliver stages and classifiers. It’s fairly easy to over focus on the sexy stuff, draw and splits, when transitions, shooting into and out of position, consistently shooting As, matters way more.