You DONT NEED the Prayers | Leagues 5 skilling relics day 11 OSRS

[@JiroOSRS]

Hey all I wanted to mention - if you still need the Spellbooks then Grimoire might be more worth it to you. This was mainly to illustrate that if you're only picking Grimoire for the prayers, I don't think it's worth it in the grand scheme of things of time saved. Obviously do what you think will be fun!

[@VinticoreGaming]

Exactely the video I needed right now, thank you! My regions have been V and M locked in for a while, third undecided, possibly F. Those echo items are OP!

[@JiroOSRS]

I'm 100% locked on V & M too, Echo Sol just sounds too fun! Morty will be the easiest raid to farm for mega rares too. I'm debating melee for Tiranwynn or Range for Fremmy for the 3rd. I'll decide when the combat relic tier gets released

[@imanoobtuber]

@@JiroOSRSthis might be the most balanced leagues yet. there's no wrong pick beside kandarin ( lol who knows though maybe it bounces back).

[@JiroOSRS]

@@imanoobtuber 100% Much less "noob trap" things this year, most anyone could choose anything and have a great time

[@darton_]

These are the calcs I've been looking at too. Crystal armor+blessing without piety is the same dps as full torva with piety. Some of these item combos are so strong that an extra 5% dps is nothing compared to an "additional" relic

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah Tirannwyn definitely seems like the play if going melee

[@shame1290]

@@JiroOSRS fremmy varla mory is also good. max crystal scy with frem stuff is 44 dps, scythe in inq is 42. and fvm allows for the funni spear build with 70 avg damae spec(maxes like a 160)

[@bwpbwp9613]

Finally someone brings this up. Been trying to explain how grim is more useful for the spellbooks than anything else since the difference between damage prayers and default is negligible. Even then id rather skip the farming runs than have those spellbooks. I am interested in the 3rd option now though since I may end up choosing it if I take the forager relic.

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah if someone wants the spellbook, by all means take it! I just think people got so tunnel visioned on the prayers when in reality Leagues is a temporary for FUN gamemode, and lots of people don't want to spend it doing farming runs

[@benfournell2585]

As a 2 time equilibrium chooser, i approve this message. So stoked for them to reveal the third, superior relic in this tier

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah this could all go out the window if they give us a juicy 3rd relic on the Grimoire tier haha

[@SuperWafflesRule]

Completely agree! My first instinct was to go grimoire for the prayers, but for how I play and what content I interests me the most… the thieving relic sold it for me which pairs beautifully with the farming relic. I plan a melee build so the other spellbooks don’t really matter, but if I can save time on farming passively and afk thieving seeds/materials on days I am too tired to really play after work - this will keep me going longer during the league without burnout. The end goal is to HAVE FUN and the thieving relic was so awesome last league; I can have supplies and potions ready on my off days to really grind out pvm without worry about runs.

[@corysteiner1218]

Still going to be taking the Grimoire not because of the prayers (that is a nice bonus) but because of the utility offered by all the different magic schools. Having all those teleports at the tip of my fingers will be so nice. Also going with dodgy deals for three reasons: -You're going to get clue scrolls like mad. Great synergy with the clue compass. -It's basically a budget Golden God relic with all the money you'll be able to make passively. -Personally picking up Asgarnia and Moritania as two of my regions. Asgarnia comes with Pest Control which solves the issue of gathering herbs and Moritania comes with blood shards which you can get ludicrous amounts of with the 11x11 AoE thieving. I think all three of these relics are fantastic options. There is incredible potential for each one, but I think the power of them greatly varies depending on which regions you pick.

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah I meant to say it in the video but just had to leave a pinned comment instead; this was mostly to target folks who are taking Grimoire for the prayers. If players have plans for the actual spell books then that still might be the best choice! Jagex really are putting us through the ringer with this whole "meaningful choice" thing but I love that it leads to interesting conversations

[@JohnFromAccounting]

Grimoire for Wilderness gives a lot of useful teleports. Dareeyak, Carrallanger, Annakarl and Ghorrock from Ancients, Cemetery from Arceuus, Ice Plateau from Lunars.

[@JohnPaul-oq6ud]

I agree with you, I don't like theiving and it will pair so well with overgrown. I think the herb one is unnecessary if going overgrown. I'm playing casually to learn content and agility is unnecessary for me because of unlimited run I think dps/combat is so insane that you don't even need bis gear or any combat related relics to destroy pvm this time around I'm going mining relic because I don't like mining. My only decision is now do I choose banker's note with the heals from the combat tiers? I feel like that's overkill. But then again, I'm trying to learn raids so maybe being a little safer is my best bet

[@JiroOSRS]

Banker's note helps literally everything everywhere, not just massive amount of food for raids. I would do recall if I had some specific regions / strategy planned for how to use it, but I think banker's note would be my recommendation to the majority of players

[@JohnPaul-oq6ud]

@JiroOSRS yeah, I used it last year and it was clutch for skilling. Probably still gonna pick it, thanks!

[@Jag-j5l]

Thanks for this vid! I don't actually play regular OSRS, and was feeling forced into the Grimoire pick when i actually wanted to take Overgrown. Now i feel i can take a guilt free Overgrown.

[@ashleysaunders9838]

Completely agree, for now if I were to take grimoire it would be only for rigour (as I am taking the desert anyways and will get ancients). For me 8% dps increase for a whole relic slot is absolutely not worth it. Taking overgrown to not have to do any farm runs/get herblore and raid supplies sounds far far better to me. It all depends what overgrown is up against though. I look forward to finding out.

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah I'm dying to know what that 3rd one is going to be! Could throw all this thinking in the bin

[@currentcommerce4774]

mostly going grimoire for thralls, deathcharge & veng, but its nice to know that nobody needs it

[@JonTheGamerGuru]

I’m honestly wanting to try out CoX and Sol without Ancients for my Zeah locked Ironman, just to test the waters, and this is making me more confident that it might be the play to do Overgrown!!

[@JiroOSRS]

I think most everyone will be happy with Overgrown, seeing the random farming xp drops while doing other content will never not make someone happy lol

[@JonTheGamerGuru]

@ true lmao

[@shame1290]

max scythe going from 44.4 to 41.0 is a decent dps loss. however i would agree that dps is so absurdly high that prioritizing fun and enjoyment would be much better for almost any1, im personally going for farming relic as well most likely. i remember ppl last leaguer were upset for taking not farming after realizing how good it is.

[@JiroOSRS]

The farming one last year was crazy! Instant plants. I ended up going ruinous prayers because it was new but a small part of me died every time I watched a youtuber instant plant all their seeds

[@shame1290]

@@JiroOSRS yeah, farming seems to be the choice for both dragon thorphy chacers and fun havers. not having to worry about 2 skills at all is massive. again, without ancients youll miss out on points cuz sire and maybe smth else, but id take afk herbs any day

[@ryansmith5779]

Liking and commenting because your cold open made me smile.

[@gigglegrove_riddles]

"Perhaps I've treated you too harshly" - Thanos

[@SamoIsKing]

Overgrown gives a constant stream of passive farming exp for very little effort, even if its crappy allotment seeds.

[@sende1]

Golden god takes care of farming and construction simultaneously, so I go with forager pouch and grimoire. I will be picking desert and rellekka, so I have pyramid for thieving and rellekka course for agility.

[@llVIU]

don't get me wrong, this guy has a valid point and I agree with him, for the average casual, don't take the +3 extra damage. Farming takes time. But I like farming. It's part of the game for me. I don't like shit like agility... which is why I would totally never encourage anyone to use a macro for it because that would be against the rules and you would totally get banned just like all the other bots.

[@pm-5565]

Nitpicky math if you ask me. For my build max melee goes up +3 DPS (0.8s dif) at JalTok-Jad, max hit goes from a potential 87 without piety to a potential 94 due to echo procs. These are theoretical averages meaning you could easily enough be unlucky and have your kill take over 5 seconds longer even if you don't waste any ticks (most will but that's pretty irrelevant). Either way that's the case for one pretty standalone scenario, where this becomes a greater deal is where you're gonna be killing a large amount of monsters and all those -1 or -2 seconds are gonna add up. If you're pet hunting let's say (with my calculations based on my route) and I go 2x over rate for Araxxor pet, which is not that unlikely to happen, me having piety vs not having it is a time difference of over 1h 15'. You could spend all that saved time throughout the league doing your best farming method and easily reach 50m xp and have a bunch of spare time to use for other stuff if your areas aren't the worst possible combo for farming. You're also ignoring the fact that it's not only prayers but also spells, meaning you unlock thralls, Vengeance and Death Charge which give a significant boost to DPS. You unlock barrage spells that can be useful (e.g: Maiden nylos at HMT). You get Dark Lure for implings and Shadow Veil if you, like me, have very little reasons to pick the thieving relic. You get the ability to reanimate ensouled heads on the spot while slaying and Sinister Offering for ashes in case you don't pick Golden God for prayer. An overlooked one imo is Degrime which whether you pick Forager or Overgrown you're gonna be sitting on a stupid amount of grimy herbs to deal with. And some other utility like Tan Hide for crafting (if you're potentially gonna do a bunch of Vorkath like me) or Recharge Dragonstone. Main point of all this yap is be careful with your statement, majority of people don't have the will, energy or time to do extensive planning and take many things into consideration and content creators keep throwing these words out like "noob trap" or "Don't need" and those statements are by far and wide the absolute biggest noob traps, there is not a single relic so far outside of perhaps Bank Heist and Lumberjack that doesn't have a strong case to be picked as long as you make sure there's synergy and it makes sense within your build and route, and mainly withing your wants out of the mode. Not everyone enjoys the same stuff or has the same goals. You most certainly don't need Overgrown for anything at all if you compensate with relics/content that covers the need for 0 tick farming (that doesn't even roll for pet).

[@NerdPawn]

Just came to comment this lol

[@JiroOSRS]

Good counterpoints. I think my main goal was to counter all of the other content creators that seemed to act like "your a noob if you go overgrown!" Lots of folks aren't going to find farming runs fun to do in a temporary for fun game mode. Wanted to provide some logic behind why it wouldn't be considered noobish to overgrown and that the DPS loss isn't really a huge deal in the grand scheme of things

[@SuperGoldenHat]

Dropping a comment for the algorithm, always great to see New OSRS content creators!!

[@domatdom]

got into an argument with someone on reddit about this but whatever floats their boat. now im waiting to see what the 3rd relic to be to decide between the two.

[@FailuresWithJade]

I chose equilibrium last league and got dragon cup so not a dps chaser. But I did the math on farming without overgrowth. 60 magic or palm seeds. I’m picking tir and wildy, so between zulrah larran chest and elite clues I can get enough tree seeds. However this league I feel I need to kill zucc so I’m valuing combat damage and defense higher. 5% dps is 5%. And it gives lots of bonus defense. Going grimour and agility relic. Agility was brutal last league even with equi on the obstacles (I was a pp enjoyer)

[@rechtebanana]

I'm hoping the third relic in the growth/grimoire/???? tier is something that greatly benefits me

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah I need all the info out so I can actually plan! ha

[@Hunter77567]

Overgrown- Agility relic. My regions have infinite secondarys pretty much. ADF.

[@JiroOSRS]

Agility one will be a really nice time save

[@crimson_fire_Dragon1]

speaking about thieving you also have the 11 by 11 radius and i don't know how the 2 master farmers in draynor are seen because one is a named character named martin and the other one is just a master farmer but i dont know if they would be counted both as normal master farmers when thieving 1 of them. but if it does work like that then you get double seeds and quad if you go asgarnia but then you can also play hide and seek with the mole unless you can just 1 bang him, maybe even with range if your hits are to fast like we had with magic last league that you could get 2 max hits in.

[@JiroOSRS]

That'd be awesome if it did both of those master farmers at once!

[@crimson_fire_Dragon1]

@@JiroOSRS jep also the only place where there are 2 master farmers within a 11 tile radius from each other if i,m right

[@kenshin1368]

Imo thieving is only good if you need something to afk (agility can also be afk) or if you need something from a stall. Stealing from Tzhaar could be good with ice gloves (F or A) and is definitely good in T and K. It seems kinda bad though if people can just crash you at the stall. Thieving is easily one of fastest skill in the game and early money shouldn't be an issue for most people especially if they have a gem stall or the mining relic. Blood shards aren't that great imo especially if you're going F like everyone else. Agility is good especially if you have lap count tasks but the fact that it doesn't prevent failure during courses seems pretty lackluster. Herb definitely seems like the best especially if you want to do the herb minigame pretty early. A decent amount of bosses/raids shit out herbs and secondaries but secondaries are still hard to come by for most of the game. But you might be getting so many purples you might not get many supplies and it's good for inventory management/herblore minigame.

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah at the end of the day, I think this tier is actually pretty balanced like you said. I'm mostly just thinking through the Grimoire and if you end up taking Overgrown I think the Herb is overkill with it. One thing that we also don't know is what the 3rd relic release is for Overgrown vs Grimoire so that could definitely make the herb one go up in priority!

[@kenshin1368]

@JiroOSRS yeah I have a feeling it will be equilibrium again which is disappointing unless they make it give exp to your lowest skill. Grimoire still good even though the prayers don't add much DPS and you don't really need ancients. Just infinitely swapping between thralls, high alch, NPC contact, veng is real damn nice. I hate changing spellbooks so much

[@ray3625]

The defensive aspect of the prayers is handy too. Not just for the max hits.

[@JiroOSRS]

It certainly will come down to player preference! I personally view the defensive not as important in leagues since we kill things so fast and get a few tanky/healing combat benefits that the defense won't matter as much. But who knows the echo bosses might make us wish we had some defenses!

[@asddsa8203]

Huh neat, I really thought the prayers were a bigger deal. With 80 ranged, and either red d'hide + msb or full crystal + crystal bow, Rigour is only 3-8 seconds faster against Zulrah. A ranging potion has a bigger impact than the prayer.

[@PiperZuko]

Really great points here

[@wallyfarflinger]

I really like the idea of taking the herblore relic in V, grabbing the goggles from mixology to get to 100% secondaries saved, and the getting a single secondary from mixology to get infinite goading and prayer renewal potions for afk training and slayer. Helaing from 1 tick blowpipe will also make it really easy to sustain even againt enemies that use multiple styles.

[@JiroOSRS]

Wow I didn't even think about the varlamore herb goggles and how that would interact, I'm interested to know if it stacks that way to have unlimited goating potions

[@Flewb]

@@JiroOSRS The relic states that they stack additively, so it should save 100% of secondaries when combined with the mixology goggles!

[@Nick10909]

if we get 16x minigame points like last year you can buy mixology potion packs and it might be better than regular herblore

[@joshholmes1372]

Relic says additive ​@@JiroOSRS

[@Goofzillers]

What would be your plan for snape grass / prayer pots if you went VTM and not forager? It seemed really hard to sustain with those regions, moonlight moths seemed like a better alternative but wasn't sure if I was missing something

[@JiroOSRS]

Moonlight moths will carry through the early game, late game Arraxxor should provide a healthy amount of red spider's eggs for super restores

[@llVIU]

the minmaxing and the crazy damage is my goal here. I WANT the craziest most overpowered meta setup. I'll take the damage. I got 99 farming on 4 accounts. I'll be ok.

[@JiroOSRS]

Very valid! That's the best part about leagues is everyone gets to make impactful choices. Lots of folks aren't going to find farming runs fun to do in a temporary for fun game mode, so just wanted to provide them with some logic on why it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to choose overgrown if farm runs are going to stress them out

[@Phennom]

Tormented demons will be nice afk training when you get tier 6

[@noname28847]

Tree Runs are so free though. I think forcing herbs with the pouch is way better for targeting xp in one of the more harder skills.

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah herblore's ability to target specific herb farming is very strong. It's definitely going to be different for each person for region considerations & what skills they don't mind doing. Some people really just can't be asked to do any sort of farm runs on the league, and for those people I was trying to show that grimoire isn't as 'required' as some people might make it out to be

[@spudchungus]

I just did some calculations with my regions. the overgrown relic would bank me 99 herb in about 200 hours of gameplay using super str potions to train. This of course is pretty slow compared to forcing herbs with the herb relic. If we assume you can always force the chosen herb (kwuarms for comparison in ths) at the rate of 650 per hour, you would only need to be skilling for 10 hours to bank herbs for 99 and the secondaries wouldnt take long to farm. So if going for 50m herb then definitely the herblore relic is the choice, but for me personally since not going for max ponits, I enjoy the passive farming + nonstop thieving method.

[@ronaldpope484]

@@spudchungus have you factored in all the herbs + secondaries you'd get via PVM? I would think you could save quite a bit of time farming (at farming patch) herbs, at say, chaos druids.

[@joshholmes1372]

​@@ronaldpope484bruh killing druids for herbs in leagues is not the play

[@spudchungus]

@@ronaldpope484 I have not and that is definitely a factor, since doing 100s of raids will provide decent herbs, but its nowhere near the efficiency of the herb relic. With herb relic you only need like 40-50 hours of skilling to bank the 50m herblore. With the farminf relic its like 600-800 hours of gameplay, if you have the seeds. Even if you didnt go for 50m and got herbs from other sources, still probably need like 100 hours to "wait" for the 99. But hey, im still picking the thieving relic and overgrown, or am I? Now im not so sure 🤔 need to do more calculations and factor in all the other skills... this is impossible 😅

[@awildbrownie5684]

I guess the only relevance to having the high lvl prayers would be if they announce a competition for speedruns

[@JiroOSRS]

Certainly possible!

[@JohnFromAccounting]

I'm interested in what the other relic for that tier is. In the Wilderness, farming isn't possible so I have no interest in Overgrown.

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah we need the other relic out! My brain can't handle not being able to plan everything ha

[@nosleepforme2242]

Personally going overgrown anyways I think. Going zeah and frem anyways so arcane isn't that great for me. Also, if i pick overgrown it makes my choice to pick thieving over the herblore relic a bit easier.

[@JiroOSRS]

Yeah that's what I was hoping to do here, show that Overgrown is an option for people to feel free to pick either Thieving or Agility

[@antons7210]

The herb relic + overgrown would be overkill imo. Definitely pick one or the other

[@JiroOSRS]

Absolutely!

[@wallyfarflinger]

I feel like overgrown just to train farming is almost worth it if you don't have access to many farming patches and are trying to max.

[@joshholmes1372]

​@@wallyfarflingeryou have tree patches on starter regions that can get you 99 farming

[@wallyfarflinger]

@@joshholmes1372 that's a really good point, might actually get to skip overgrow for either grimoire or whatever the last reveal in the tier is.

[@antons7210]

@@wallyfarflinger Maybe, farming will be my worst skill if I pick Grimoire for sure. But I also don't mind doing farming. If I get lucky with tree seeds with all the PVM I'm gonna do it's not really a concern anyway

[@LastTexan]

I'm picking grim (probably) just so I don't have to click 3 prayers instead of 1 as a melee user 😅

[@JiroOSRS]

Setting up the 3 as quick prayers is an option too for one clicking!

[@joey_saw]

we need the third relic in the overgrown/grimoire tier before anything can be set in stone i feel like

[@JiroOSRS]

this is definitely true! If anything this makes the 3rd option possible to take if Grimoire isn't as important

[@DeoVenator]

herblore relic produces 20x the herbs per day compared to the farming relic

[@joshholmes1372]

And you can target herbs

[@JiroOSRS]

It's definitely a strong relic, this tier is so hard to choose from! I was mainly hoping to help people choose by offering another solution for herblore from Overgrown

[@FrancisGagarin]

Herb relic u have to wc/mine/fish in order for it to keep working. With overgrown, u can raid/slayer (bssically enjoy the combat masteries which is the point of leagues)

[@gustavsjokvist2668]

What do you need blood shards for if you go frem?

[@JiroOSRS]

I'm locked on Varlamore + Morty - the last one will come down to if I go melee or range (waiting for combat relic). So if I'm melee I will go Tiranwynn for last, Fremmy for range (and blood shards won't really be important). Overall I just hate thieving so it's definitely more personal to me haha

[@Kai13216]

Do we know if the vault acts like a seed box auto filling when pickpocketing farmers?

[@JiroOSRS]

really good question, I asked around Leagues discord, Mod Husky said "no clue"

[@ronaldpope484]

I'd think that you would have to manually put the seeds in, but that should just be a couple clicks per inventory.

[@Kai13216]

@@ronaldpope484 yeah, but with the new thieving relic. Thats the difference between reseting every couple of minutes or being able to afk for 25mins+

[@collinbrown9233]

But have you considered the mental health toll of clicking arm + brain every time

[@DaSuperBob]

I don''t know how long the echo cg will take to beat but if its like 2-3 minutes max and it drops full cg loot then I don't imagine you need to thieve crystal shards.

[@JiroOSRS]

I think in general you won't need a ton of shards, but for specifically remaking crystal armor over and over again to get 50million craft/smithing xp you would need the thieving one to make this viable

[@matthewsherwood15]

Dude thralls is extra dps haha also if doing melee a 25% increase in max hit each splat and echo of that splat - if u have V i think herb pick is the go and also skip overgrown cos they overlap - picking range maybe not butni think mage u would also want grimoire

[@JiroOSRS]

I think in Leagues the thrall dps will be hardly noticeable since our own person dps will be insane, but yeah if spellbooks are important to people Grimoire is still good to take! I was mainly focused on trying to show people who are tunnel visioned on the prayers that they do have some options

[@jaenicke38]

but are we accounting for the lack of thralls though? that's a substantial amount of dps no? I've been locked in on mtf and was taking grim because of thralls mostly

[@JiroOSRS]

You really won't notice thralls DPS, it's great in the main game but when we're doing insane damage in Leagues you won't notice your little guys hitting for 1's and 2's. I personally wouldn't factor thralls in for my decision

[@llVIU]

so you're saying that I don't need the extra damage or quick spellbook swap from "grimoire" spellbook like thrall dps because... I am shit like you at farming? Nah, I'm good.

[@shame1290]

finally another thieving hater

[@JiroOSRS]

Someone could show me all the math on why the thieving is the factual incorrect choice and I don't think I'd care, I don't want to pickpocket a thing if I don't have to lol

[@shame1290]

@@JiroOSRS i just want to click master farmer with the farming relic and come back to 10k watermelons. only reason to not do farming relic is to get ancients without desert for sire

[@REMINISC3NT116]

As a skiller with mage build this leagues looks awful compared to last.

[@JiroOSRS]

yeah mage was turbo busted last year so I'm wondering if they're purposefully trying to pull it in so it's not the meta again