You NEED to Pull for Her NOW in Honkai: Star Rail (Tingyun Guide & Showcase)

[@OkCodeTV]

highly recommend running Tingyun with Jingyuan, otherwise he needs speed and energy regen rope to consistently hit 10 stack

[@silvaquick193]

What do I do if she is literally the only 4 star I don't get? I literally have Jing Yuan and still not have her...

[@infinitykiyen6270]

I know you won't make the mistake most "common Tingyun Build" currently... It seems like a lot of website guide thoughts 10% lightning attack boost her stats... Since you make the damage guide you know that's a clear false... Also like you said Tingyun is better off being the fastest Fox. You need her to attack a lot. Also another thing you may not notice since I tested Tingyun a lot too. 1) Tingyun's extra damage are all considering as "Ally's attack" I don't like how the game just added number... This create an illusion that she attacks... No she didn't... Her talent state her "Ally" will attack when she deals damage... This is why all her extra damage is 100% scaled by her ally. However they do not gain whatever passive or damage multiply that ally have. Otherwise it will created the loops error of "ATK boosted by Tingyun loop by Tingyun and another loop" So that "damage" is the purest kind. And no boosting her damage doesn't boost her extra damage... Since it's like "third party damage" or some kind... It's weird lol 2) What Tingyun's extra damage do scaled of is critical rate. Funny enough it doesn't scaled on critical damage so her damage ended up as (100% ally's ATK stats) x (Talent multiply) x 150% Her critical damage always stuck at based 150%. It's kinda weird honestly lol At least it gain 100% of whatever critical rate they got... That's nice.

[@infinitykiyen6270]

Like if it does scaled of critical damage exactly as my DPS... My Seele at the time have 150% critical damage due to her Light Cone. Using her ultimate but the damage somehow ended up as... Seele's current attack of 2500 times 150% and talent 70%... 2625... While her ultimate deals a damage of 41000... OK something is weird but now I learn a few things... 1) Tingyun's extra damage does not care about what skill you use or ultimate. 2) Tingyun extra damage has a default critical damage at 50% no matter what... 3) It only cares about that DPS ATK stats. 4) Buff doesn't matter for both Tingyun or DPS. Since I also tested with Bronya's AOE buff from her ultimate... It stacks just for the raw ATK up... So yeah Tingyun would not be your sub DPS. She can deal damage but a very small amount... But it's higher than most tank anywhere. Cause DPS stats are high.

[@infinitykiyen6270]

Hope this helps or if there's a mistake you can correct me. I'm also just doing testing cause I'm bored and at maxed stats in my current level...

[@thewhutnow5795]

@@infinitykiyen6270 no one cares

[@LapisD]

My favorite part about her is that she helps to keep ability points up, since she only needs to use her skill every 3 turns basically

[@kirin1230]

Auto battle: Time to buff Natasha

[@LapisD]

@@kirin1230 My Tingyun loveesss to buff Gepard in the auto battle aaaaaaaa

[@Shaazzyy]

@@kirin1230 lol auto battle let buff Baizu instead buffing seele

[@kevinkchao8]

​@@kirin1230 on auto battle, I've never seen bronya or ting buff anybody other than my Seele. How are yours targetting other units? Is it a setting maybe?

[@scaramouche7759]

But her energy will take longer to regen with mostly basic attacks no?

[@yurikirii]

Her neck is also beyond broken

[@VeryLewdBeaR]

Bru. The emotes in chat with Pom-Pom walking up and staring at you is precious. Quite often Pom-Pom will straight-up just walk towards the MC, even if you move in a different direction, Pom-Pom will keep turning towards you.

[@l0st1nv0id]

In fact, Caelus/Stelle is Pom-Pom’s favourite character

[@Airitzu]

Pom-Pom is what Genshin tried to do with Paimon but it actually worked.

[@VeryLewdBeaR]

@@Airitzu Really hope they will make Paimon their own character instead of a parrot and a mouthpiece for the Traveler. The banter that is there is nice, but god damn the bloated dialogue hits hard sometimes. Pom-Pom just does their own thing on the train and refuses to leave it even though they seem to have taken a liking towards the MC. Just being adorable constantly.

[@omgjlmiub]

This is going to be crazy for Seele’s ult up time. With resurgence and Tingyun’s ult, you’ll be using Seele’s ult so often.

[@l0st1nv0id]

Seele’s never ending turn💀

[@CrimsonReapa]

@@l0st1nv0id i have that combo+bronya and i can shred through most bosses without the need to break them bc i end them before they can really do anything to me.

[@l0st1nv0id]

@@CrimsonReapa I guess that works if you can manage skill points. Seele is busted and there are a lot of interesting team comps with her

[@cyrusadlaon2310]

​@@l0st1nv0id it's my turn😅

[@bigomg5020]

Honkai Star Rail, a (Seele's) turn-based game 😂

[@justarandomfilipinoweeb1187]

i saved up 40 pulls just for her, now i have 1 sushang, 3 march copy, 2 new 4 star light cones, 1 jingyuan and still 0 tingyun

[@sir_parker8055]

Managed to do the exact same thing with 25 pulls, minus Jing Yuan. Since I use March, and one of the light cones was March's 4-star, I'm not thrilled, but at least my shielder improved out of the whole thing, I guess.

[@seigiro2008]

Ahhh i feel you brotha, pulled 60 and i only got my first sushang and 5 march and lost 50/50 to yanqingwhen i was hoping atleast e2 tingyun, ah well she's cracked at e0 anyways. Stopped pulling cause gotta save for kafka

[@haku1145]

We're in the same boat lol. I have E1 Sushang, E6 March, E0 Jing Yuan, some 4-star lightcones, and still no Tingyun. At least I have Clara, so the E6 March is pretty helpful, but I desperately want Tingyun. Good luck getting her!

[@hunterwulf]

Bro i puled 30 and got a 2 tingyun and 1 march 7th

[@hyperintrovert8763]

I did 80 pulls and get not a single copy.

[@Rapannell36]

Something to note about planetary rendezvous, it buffs ALL characters with the same element as the wielder, including the one wearing it. I run it on Asta with Fire MC, and Hook, so all 3 characters are getting a +12% fire dmg bonus, and that's at level 1. I think this light cone is actually S tier in certain situations where you want to use multiple characters of the same element.

[@smallbrainpleb]

I’m really just pulling on jing yuan banner just for tingyun. Kafka is who I really want

[@asves4536]

Same, but I think Blade is also on the same banner as Kafka. IDK to pick Kafka or Blade

[@SnowLily06]

Same she's the only 4* I haven't gotten yet

[@adnansaleem6167]

SAME! I did a ten pull just to see how it will go since I only wanted her (already have Sushang), and got Tingyun on that. Not touching it now till Kafka and since I have 10k jades left, pretty sure I'll get 4k more when her banner drops. Just need to win that 50-50, lol.

[@ieuanselwyn4433]

​@adnansaleem6167 Kafka isn't in 1.1 so you have a good while before she comes out

[@影-c9y]

@@asves4536 arent they both 5 stars? they are probably in the same patch though, also for everyone saving for kafka/blade they are in 1.2 or later so you have a lot of time to save.

[@supersploof]

Thank you for clarifying about planetary rendevouz I got a few and thought it just increased my tingyun damage, I’ll definitely build it! Managed to get jing yuan AND his light cone with 120 stair rail passes I was so hyped 😁

[@Sirciel]

I got both in 150 summons, also HYPE The only downside is I only got 1 ting yuan March 7 love me too much

[@supersploof]

@@Sirciel lmao nice man congrats, yeah tingyun was avoiding me but i managed to get 2 more 10 pulls after i got his light cone and got her to e2, so now her energy regen for team is quite nice, 1 more eidolon for that extra ult damage buff would be sexy

[@Risuization]

So nobody else mentions the visual counter of her buff... I rarely look at the stacks bar on the UI if it doesn't have a number and I also mostly just don't read things, so thank you for pointing it out and making informative foolproof guides.

[@SuomenPaska]

Just to add something on how Planetary Rendezvous works: it gives the _entire team_ an elemental damage buff of the wearer - including the wearer. So for example, with Tingyun wearing it, your whole team would have +12 % lightning damage bonus. So this would also buff her own talent/E proc damage.

[@SlyF1X]

Thanks a lot for informative video with convenient timelines. Great analysis. Super fun attitude at delivering it. :D

[@ayasinx8797]

Thank you so much for explaining everything in detail!! I wasn't exactly sure how she works.

[@aaronteo6624]

Omg.. This is so useful... Can you make videos on how to build all charaters in HSR? Really appreciated...

[@elknolasshrineofraja3966]

🌸😹I but acquire every character on account “that each missed is a missed opportunity by which to approach the game from new perspective”!😹🌸

[@thereitisdude]

you don't even understand how much I appreciate FFXIV music playing in the background, it's so good 😭

[@m54269]

I got my own mommy kitsune in the first 10.. saved a lot of pulls for that *I should've watch this first after choosing past and future over anything else 💀

[@Snaeky]

The wording on planetary rendezvous is wrong btw. It give the damage type of the user to all other allies on the field at the percentage that it says. So, seele and Clara also get the DMG boost.

[@adhamkamarul1010]

"Past and Future" lightcone is the best "damage" buffing lightcone for Bronya. This is because when Bronya uses her skill, the character that gets buffed is brought to the next turn after Bronya's turn ends, which fully utilizes the lightcone's passive. If you want to use the lightcone on Tingyun, make sure your Tingyun is faster than your DPS to utilize the passive. Using Speed stat boots helps enough since Tingyun is the next fastest character after Seele. Keep this in mind if you do plan on using the lightcone for Tingyun

[@v-7815]

Auto Battle Tingyun be buffing my Bailou, wtf is going on 😭😭

[@TheDamnedCook]

I have Jing Yuan. My friend borrowed my Jing Yuan, and he has Ting Yun in his team. Boy my Jing Yuan in his team was like on steroids.

[@2huplayer831]

fr i pulled her out on the General banner 2 times, and then i had 10 normal tickets out of nowhere and i pulled out yet another Tingyun. Now i have an E2 Tingyun, RNGesus bless!!!

[@DarkStarLupus123]

I got Tingyun along with Himeko in my first 10 pulls then i wish for chicken in the next 10 pulls Game said BAM, have a chicken and they gave me a Sushang I got so excited from getting her that i forgot how to breath

[@CassisVermillio]

I wonder how much the Planetary Rendezvous’ dmg increase scales with Tingyun‘s benediction ally buff since it gives element dmg

[@galangbs7766]

I swear mihoyo made tingyun drop rate lower than march and sushang. Having maxed eidolon march while only fresh tingyun

[@flayawag4334]

Darn sorry about that, it's opposite for me I maxed tingyan, I hope you get more of her :)

[@kikawaii7561]

No fr i did 3 ten pulls and got March every pull

[@itsafruit2989]

Agreed 70 pulls only got 1 tingyun

[@galangbs7766]

Guys, hope you all get better luck next time

[@Stalinfalcon]

Welcome to Genshin

[@TheIVSaken]

Planetary Rendezvous is awesome if you have TIngyun and Jing Yuan together.. it really makes him hit hard.

[@Shocefire]

I like how you say "yeah /yes" at the end of your sentences, thought it's an aussy only thing

[@Rime_Di_Michelangelo]

I hit hard pity but I got the units I wanted, including Tingyun. Thank God for this stroke of luck 🍀✨

[@Dwesk]

I pulled ~45 times so far, got 1x sushang (first dupe), 1x march (4th dupe lmao but i never use her) and her 4* bis cone apparently, as well as 3x tingyun dupes, so I got extremely lucky as far sa 4* are concerned, but holy fuck I don't think I have enough pulls in me until next banner to secure Jing Yuan. :(

[@hiro4477]

Got jing yuan in 40 pulls and got his light cone in 80 pulls. Didn’t get a single tingyun 💀

[@JA.4]

Hard pity? 90? That's actually really rare so idk if you're lucky or unlucky lol

[@Rime_Di_Michelangelo]

@@Dwesk Hey at least you got all the rate up 4*! Just curious, why you don't use March? she's got adecent kit, shield, counter, cleanse, and at e6 even a bit of healing. I got her at e4 since the game likes to give her to me and her eidolons are all pretty good, although her e1 is admittedly underwhelming.

[@Rime_Di_Michelangelo]

@@hiro4477 Oh damn sorry about that missed Tingyun! I don't plan on pulling on the weapon banner anytime soon, so I'm very glad for people who pulled on it and won 50/50 and put their stacked Jing Yuan as support unit. He's cracked with his light cone!

[@Cerberusuu]

I pulled and got tingyun and lost the 50/50 and got bronya all i need is the healer for the full hypercarry team

[@malsawmzela609]

Once Yukong comes out. My Jing Yuan will be surrounded be two beautiful fox ladies.

[@stribijev]

During auto-battle, Tingyun uses normal attacks, too. It is an insane amount of ults she uses that makes an impression that all she does is buffs Seele :)

[@mittlope2723]

someone just tested planetary rendeszous. it gives party wide buff with wearer's type as dmg%

[@CaptBeefy]

Brand new to the game and actually got her on a one warp

[@edwardeldrich1234]

Surprise Amaurot theme from FFXIV as bgm choice during the lightcone showcase

[@ricolc1]

Wait... Is the BGM from DW3? My brain just melted of nostalgia

[@SM-oc4rc]

I need your advice! I got Jing Yuan before any copy of Tingyun (No Tinngyun in my roster I mean). I am out of Special Passes and have like 7k Jades. (Not pure F2P - Welkin subscriber) Should I still pull on his banner for Tingyun? I also have Sushang E1 and March at E2. So I am only missing Tingyun from his banner.

[@jriflen8230]

She's a fox girl With a beautiful ~~armpit~~ splash art Enough said

[@KiyasuPVP]

Afaik it's not technically ultimates or follow ups not counting as their own turn, it's that the ONLY thing that counts as the end of a characters turn is the start of the next units turn. Semantics but it's simpler to think that way imo, don't have to delineate different actions, only the hard end of the characters phase.

[@pumpkinut5314]

I spent 110 pulls on Jing Yuan’s banner at 40 pity. I got 2 Jing Yuans, a Bronya E6 march and sushang BUT NOT A SINGLE TINGYUN LMAO

[@enju3588]

I almost had my jaws drop when I read Bronya E6 until I saw the March right aftrr

[@pumpkinut5314]

@@enju3588 lmao imagine E6 Bronya. Paired with Seele she would make Seele nuke literally

[@elronshencaka3657]

Tried to get her on jing yuan banner, I have e5 march e2 sushang AND NO TING YUNN 😭😭😭 Edit: I GOT ONE COPY OF HER LETS GOO

[@JingYuans_sparrow]

After almost a month I still haven’t pulled a harmony lightcone. How.

[@jakicle]

yo i just got E6 tingyun and a lot of pity for next banner im so hyped!

[@Andrew_GNX00]

Being a F2P while getting Jin Yuan, I ended up getting a Full C Tingyun. Now I need to figure out what to do with this character…

[@noahsarkhive4482]

i used dance dance on my tingyun until 3 days ago or so when i pulled bronyas 5*cone from the standard banner as my first legendary there xD i’m not even mad it wasn’t a character cause my tingyun is cracked now

[@reveng3r]

My Tingyun dont rebuffing every turn because of I'm using Gepard Nata Zeele Tingyun team for autobattles. This team can handle any fight while you doing your morning routine or whatever you do while you "playing" this game :)

[@boy5390]

Is she Bennett level of broken, or like a xingqiu level strong?

[@Jexter420]

I use the past and future for my tingyun.. since I have seele for my dps, I can speed tune for seele to be 2nd in turn after tingyun.. this is useful for roaming battles since you don't want to take additional damage and with seele for dps, it will be over in 1 turn anyway soooo.. for lengthy battles like bosses and stuff I'd use dance3.. since past and future will become inconsistent for a battle that last for more than a few turns..

[@KiyoPapi]

just took 90 pulls and getting pity to get jing yuan but in the process i got e6 ting yun so im happy

[@Kkuroshiro]

March kept coming, 50 pulls or something and didn't even get a single Tingyun. I don't even have her yet..

[@thedarkness490]

Tried 40+ pulls and rip she didn't come home guess ill have to wait for her to rotate into the shop to get her

[@BeybladeMetalFusio11]

While me saving but decided to pull because of her with 40 pulls but instead got many Sushang and March 7th's eidolons still no Tingyun, my banner is broken 😢

[@Marbeary]

My current line up is Jing yun, Bailu, Bronya/Tingyun, Sushang. Tingyun (dance dance) is broken with sushang non stop attack :D

[@Mom-r3u]

I glad i stop reach 50/50 cause i only got tingyun E2,sushang E0 and march copys.i Don't care too much about jing cause serval is already enough for me. I know in the future there is a lots of character design who are better beside jing in the future so i would wait for that character can carry through the games... Thanks for the guide tingyun

[@riotkitty]

Code: The AI keeps rebuffing her E even though you only need to do it every three turns Me: Oh…aha…I definitely haven’t been doing it every turn…

[@priambodokusuma4530]

just got tingyun yesterday and still at E0, I really think she's so broken with Seele and Jing Yuan ( I only have Seele tho). thanks for the build suggestion, I'm still build her for now

[@thanthtooaung4401]

i dont know what to do because i have too many suppport charcters and limited damage dealers. Byronya, March, Welt(kind of-work as both support and damage dealer.) should I draw her?

[@malificajones7674]

I just got my Tingyun up to C6. She's so gloriously broken!

[@nightsxgames]

So I didnt reroll so I didnt have Bronya or Tingyun - So of course since I E6'd Seele, I was going to do some pulls for Tingyun... So 5th single in - purple - March 7th... Damnit - ok 6th in... blur rainbow - gold Door - BRONYA!!!!... ok then... looks like im saving now for Silverwolf - Wanted Tingyun tho, So was even more hyped when ticket from leveling Bronya to 50 - got me Tingyun. =) GG

[@lonebriefcase]

Her signature light cone is Widsith I’ve realized

[@CaramelRainebows]

Me who kept pulling for tingyun eidolons and ended up with E6 Sushang: 😂

[@adamcobb7892]

I got her to E4 but my resources after lvling Jing up is depleted. March is E2 and I hate that I have a E6 Phys hunt girl when I have a E1 Clara. Lamers but it'll be better in a yr or yr in a half lol

[@Yumachuu]

I got C6 march7th and C6 sushang and 0 tingyun. I keep getting march 7th and sushang for some reason I do not know. Im suspecting that the game hates me.

[@jaguh9069]

I just slap the planetery I got from LC banner and use her with Jing yuan for her personal dmg, didn't know the passive affected ally, which makes it even better lol

[@PseudOni_]

Using Tingyun to battery Clara when you have the 5* light cone is pain, you're welcome for the dmg buff Natasha

[@LordTaboo11]

Sad that for the 4 stars I got 2 March 7th and 4 Sushang from the banner and had to keep on going just to be able to get the 1 Tingyun

[@loukas9442]

Lost to Welt and and JingYuan. 5 m7, 5 sushang and no Tingyun :( I gave up, need to save for Luocha now.

[@takethepillingodwetrust1510]

I got her in 4 single summons 😅 I do not want jing yuan so I am very lucky so I did singles. Kafka and luocha pool is saved for now

[@tunoak]

Editor is a man of culture for using FFXIV ost haha

[@Shuten-Douji]

On Bronya would you recommend Past and future or carve the moon?

[@mubrek236]

Wanted a C6 Tingyun and a Jing Yuan with 130 pulls Left with a C6 Sushang(I have Dan n Clara) and a Himeko at 80 with 0 pulls

[@mubrek236]

I see this video as a salt on the fresh wound

[@lutherdalton4164]

lmfao that was literally me as well, wanted Jing Yuan but left with E6 March and Welt at 80 with 0 pulls

[@mubrek236]

@@lutherdalton4164 damn man who used witchcraft on this banner?

[@NightcoreShigwa]

I literally got 7 march 7th, 8 sushangs, one jing yuan but no tingyun

[@aabuyaa]

the thing is... i want silver wolf and luocha. i already did 130 pulls on seele banner but i dont even want her. the urge is just too great. im now guaranteed with 70 pity.

[@abhaytakiar5779]

I got e4 tingyun and e3 Sushang from my beginner and standard summons should I go for e6 I really don't want to get Jing yuan coz Kafka is also lightning

[@RyanRickyW]

What I don't like about her.when we auto. . She buff not dpa char. . And doing buff again in next turn. And not do basic attack

[@aspicio]

I got e3 tingyun e3 sushang and e2 march 7th and a yanqing from pulling today, yanqing was my leats wanted unit, i alr had bronya, e1 welt and himeko wanted jing yuan, gepard or bailu

[@aeowinh]

Tingyun helps a lot Clara she already generate tons of energy for being hit but having almost permanent uptime in your Ultimate is so good.

[@Dre-ShaN]

I have her E1 without pulling on that banner , already got seele and bronya so idk if i should summon on that banner.

[@IIIEPJIOK221b]

Hoyovers on purpose made a mess with Auto-Tingyun to balance overall auto-combat system in the game.

[@SeanValenciaaa]

Bro really is putting out guide after guide 💀 (which i appreciate a lot)

[@dastan.a6632]

Guys can someone tell me what is the max lvl of traces? Like are people on lvl 50 don't have max trace lvl cap?

[@AzariusR]

Tingyun and Jing Yuan with auto is definitely the gender of all time. Literally auto on Formidable enemies and bosses alike lol.

[@owlgamingchannel5545]

Is bronya Good with Jing yuan? Or Tingyun is better?

[@NihilityProxy]

@@owlgamingchannel5545 Tingyun is better for him, fixes his wonky ult cost and her buff has better synergy (Bronya skill can't buff the lighting lord because it only lasts 1 turn)

[@owlgamingchannel5545]

@@NihilityProxy i see thanks dude 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🦉

[@k1ngan1m3tr011]

​@@owlgamingchannel5545 Yeahhh at first just used Bronya and Him it works really well but it's super SP Costy. I decided to Upgrade ting and it works just as well. Both were able to clear World 6 so it's up to you. If you always want 10 Stacks or just use ting increase the damage so even 8 lightning Lord can still do good damage

[@cocojumbo539]

Ik this is not related but will I be able to get both silverwold and kafka if I have a guarantee and 41 pity?

[@reincarnatedtobuildaharem]

The only thing I don't like about her is that she doesn't have a voice line in her skill when × 2 speed

[@storybinge]

I got 7 march 7 and 5 sushang and ZERO tingyun with 145 warp. How?

[@SekaiCake]

I tried and lost.. still missing her - screw my luck got multiple March 7th's and useless lc's ...

[@GamingKyah]

"No way" always gets me 🤣🤣🤣

[@ERROR-rr9gn]

Since Sushang is on Jing Yuan bannet now too, can you make a guide for her, would highly aprecciate?

[@comfy7280]

I use to think she was not as good as i have bronya but thanks to code imma build her now when i have resources

[@thanib7796]

Love how thorough you are! Could you possibly do one for March 7th or Yukong?

[@Khqra]

After 105+ pulls and not getting Jing Yuan on my main account and wanting to die...atleast i got a couple of constellations for Tingyun (the 50/50 loss was to Clara who i already have as my main on my 2nd account lmao...so fkn tragic) On my second account i think it was around 55+pulls deep already and i did a 10 pull and got Jing on there but no Tingyun to go with him Pain. So it's a clusterfuck of everything is not where i want 😅 I guess i should just save now and try getting another guaranteed character down the line..Blade or Kafka maybe hmm

[@sakuradragon3869]

the world is full of coincidences today, because I did a 10 pull in the last 30 mins of Seele and I got her. But I want my JOJO Robot Dammit!!!

[@Jal2inaze]

I want to roll for ting yun eidelon, but i want to save for luocha. Moreover, i already pitied once what to do sadge

[@fireking_3]

So build Damage Natasha is the way?

[@kennethhuynh28]

whats the main trade off for speed and atk % on boots?

[@Alex-42069]

Here I would put my atk musketeer's set, if I only had tingyun 😭

[@theviper2176]

Does planetary rendezvous's damage increase trigger off of the lightning damage she allows the benedicted ally to use? That might be interesting to look at. Not sure if it would be good enough to get me off of DDD tho.

[@landelacruzzzz]

As long as the attacker has the same element as the user (ex. Tingyun & Jing Yuan) it will always have the dmg% bonus active. I'm currently using it at s3 due to the same reason.

[@NihilityProxy]

If you only got DDD s1 and rendezvous s5 you might want to use that instead, there's no better LC for a while (carve is s1 per month). I pray for DDD rate up soon

[@DoT_TD]

Didn't get her sadge. Hope to somehow get her before banner ends

[@Gibborocks]

Did I miss something, how do you auto attack?

[@TheDay3000x]

Tingyun : あらあら~ me : worth it

[@kiiroblack]

I still think they should do something for the 4 stars... I did 160 warps and got 1 Tingyun. I even got more Hook (2)... off-rate up.