You're *still* wrong about Square Joker (Gold Stake with NO Planets)

[@TuffyIsFluffy]

I had no idea that scaling jokers couldn't get perishable. Sorry for being a doubter, Red Card...

[@TwentySeventhLetter]

Tbh making blue seals a chance also makes them more fun because you will actually care to have more than 2 or 3 held in hand at the end of round, so it feels better to draw more of them

[@benherbst6167]

Plus it makes dice better, which is always fun

[@RichAFCW]

40 minutes in, Doc apologises for it being a "not very interesting run". He's making gold stake look like child's play and actively refusing jokes that would help him score. Meanwhile, i haven't won a gold stake run in forever. I'm finding this video very interesting! ❤

[@RyanTheEditor_]

I feel like this isn’t a good representation of the power of red card or square joker. Would’ve lost the run if you didn’t get carried by séance

[@drspectred]

Seance really did show up at just the right time

[@litfuse8729]

I agree that the difference between 2 planet cards per round and 1 planet card every 6 rounds is quite ASTRONOMICAL

[@Ravedave5]

Another way to think of why they are so powerful is that it usually costs 9-15 in packs to get a planet. So blue seal is basically a triple gold seal.

[@roryvanberkel4139]

I've always been a square joker lover. I love it when I have an ice cream helping me out, then I find the square joker. Each hand you're only getting net - 1 chip.

[@panpolypuff]

On the final hand. you needed 366 points to win. Square Joker was at 384. He could have effectively solo'd the final hand.

[@Epic_Ducks1]

Square was 388, sorry.

[@emidemi7211]

Square Joker solos your fave

[@edgeman1135]

I had a wild 4 Feeners / Shortcut / Burnt Joker straight flush run, and all the effort to use Burnt felt a bit disappointing compared to just having 2-3 blue seals in my deck.

[@ConstantRev]

I destroyed gold stake with square joker, bus, splash and flower pot! Was perfect! I just used the hung man on my face cards and the rest wrote itself! 🙌 Square joker for lyf!

[@stupxd]

I heard you mention chance based blue seals on stream as a way of making pairs less viable, but I don't think it will change much. It only hurts better hands, as with pairs not only you can dig for blue seals easier, you can also hold more of them. And since there's only 2 consumable slots, for pair builds you can add more blue seals to the deck.

[@drspectred]

Pairs currently get the most benefit from Blue Seals, so they will be impacted the most by a nerf. Just because you can, in theory, hold more Blue Seals in Hand, doesn't mean you can actually find enough, in practice. In every 8-Ante run, I try to get as many Blue Seals as possible but end with only 3 in deck, on average.

[@stupxd]

@@drspectred hm, fair enough. I understand your view now, you want to shift hand leveling source meta from blue seals to other ones, like jokers and celestial packs. It would be nice if blue seals still generated a random planet, though, if they didn't generate a planet for last played poker hand. That would also nerf the ability to retrigger blue seals (mime) and cover the case of holding more than 2 seals But it would also make the description even longer, which is probably not something thunk would want.

[@drspectred]

The release version was random Planet, yeah, but the expected value was too low. Essentially, 1 in 9 chance to upgrade the one hand which you're already building around and the rest of the time useless Planet. Getting /one/ Hand to absurd levels is /fun/ and we don't want to take that away. The "1 in 2" buff would preserve some of the existing gameplay patterns. Another version which could work, "Upgrade two random Hands." over time, you would see incentives to pivot into a hand you might not have otherwise considered. I think that would be strategically interesting.

[@stupxd]

Not exactly what I meant. I know about release version. I was talking about something like Create a random planet card and end of round 1 in x chance it is for the last played poker hand Tho I am now realizing it will be confusing since you won't be able to tell if planet was from 1 in x chance or random

[@anynameinastorm]

Haha, I just completed a run that I had Red Card AND Square in the first ante. Can confirm that it's a busted combo. I could basically do whatever I wanted with the other joker slots until ante 6. I wasn't a maniac, so I was using blue seals, of course. I didn't do anything special. Pivited from pairs to 3ok in ante 7 with the obelisk. Took the flower pot along for its final gold stake ride, too

[@JonBowden-x2q]

You are causing me pain, you make it looks so easy.

[@conz2078]

hey doctor, just heads up, the title says (gold stake with only no planets) which doesn't make much sense lol

[@drspectred]

I got you, fam. TY

[@TwentySeventhLetter]

I wonder if it would be more balanced if blue seals generated a random planet based on all the hands you played this round. So instead of being guaranteed the one you want, or pulling from all 9+ planets, it would require you to commit completely to one hand type or run the risk of generating high cards as you dig through your deck to find them. Though saying this out, it might just reward high card and pair too disproportionately. Hm, game balance is hard.

[@yoppyyoppy6794]

On my way to C+ (pre blue seal buff), square joker became my most used joker. Now, after the patch I collected the 100 odd jokers I had left for C++ and I think I've picked up square joker like twice. He's still my most used joker, but the gap between him and second place is smaller. He just feels so bad to use now. His nerfs and the buffs to blue seals and saturn got to him. He doesn't start producing enough chips right away like I'd want him to, and losing out on three dollars of hand money hurts if I decide to scale him. Before the changes to gold stake I didn't mind missing out on the money so much as scaling jokers were the only way I knew how to win on gold stake, but now I'm just wasting my money and a slot on a joker that I don't really need. I guess this isn't unique to square joker, but he feels worse than something like ride the bus because of how easy chips are to get through planets. It's way easier to get 200 chips from hand levels than it is to get 50 mult. The only scaling +chip/mult joker that feels powerful to me right now is runner, who seems to simply outclass square. He scales just as fast and you don't have to use all your hands. Maybe it's just because I just finished C++, but most scaling jokers just don't feel all that strong right now. You only really need like 1-3 jokers to actually contribute to your score, and you want to make as much money as possible to be able to find those last few jokers you need stickers on. I guess they'd be better if your goal is to win every run vs get every gold sticker.

[@acantilado]

Here’s another reasonable no planet build: runner + bus + shortcut + the order + flower pot on Abandoned deck - get a few decent vouchers and very doable. Doesn’t even depend on the equally OP Saturn cards!

[@no-hr6rj]

i fucking love abandoned deck, i don't think it's quite as good as yellow but man is it nice to start with 40 cards, and anything that helps enable straights is basically automatically fun in my eyes

[@kevin-bf4ww]

scoring cards in hand / 5 chance to generate a planet card at the end of the round so 5 card hands still get the blue seal and high card would become a 1/5, pair 2/5, 2oak into a 3/5 etc would make splash better too

[@Kavukamari]

if you assume you're only getting 3 hands per round, that's 3 hands * 3 rounds per ante * 8 antes, is 72 triggers on the square, skipping the first round's 3 hands is 69 triggers after the first shop, 4 chips per trigger means a max(ish) square is 276 chips, that's not too shabby need 363 mult to get a 100k from square alone, i think that's pretty manageable, since you're likely not ONLY using square for your chips

[@ThirtyOneBear]

I’ve always been on board with the Square Joker. It’s Hip to be square after all

[@marikstongue5663]

This video is actually interesting still, because I like your explanation on why we don't do certain things.

[@Kavukamari]

blue seals getting a percent chance to trigger instead of a guaranteed chance would be kind of a crazy indirect buff to oops

[@Kavukamari]

mime too for the held in hand retriggers

[@davefol6015]

If you play 4 hands in a round with 1/4 chance of upgrading the hand that's only 68% chance of getting at least one upgrade per round.

[@Kavukamari]

32:19 BRO IS STEALING RENTALS MAN returning them before they're charged lmao

[@DTMP]

your point about Square Joker is pretty correct. maybe I should give him a better chance when I spot him on Ante 1 - that and Red Card. tho big hands be fun as for Blue Seal, yeah I do agree it is too strong. my strategy is so much better once I mix in the Standard Packs for those Blue Seals. so it does need a nerf, but I'm not sure if a chance based nerf is a good idea yet. there's some strategies involved in keeping some consumable slots for the planet cards, which would then be more unpredictable.

[@RichardULong]

Hey professor, I have a question: how worth it is it to invest in preemptive deck building for these kinds of runs? As in, as I am building up the square joker or an equivalent early and mid game, I am also putting resources towards thinning my deck and homogenizing my deck towards a single suit/rank so that I can pivot off high card/pairs later on. It seems like something I should be doing so that I can take advantage of the higher requirement jokers later on if they show up, but that often doesn’t really seem to be a factor in your runs. Thanks as always!

[@drspectred]

Addressed in my next video (later today)! With Blue Seals being so overpowered, you have strong incentive to just stick with the same hand the whole run. Whatever hand you can consistently play in Antes 2 and 3, that's the one you should stick with all the way through to the end. The /optimal/ thing to do is go all in on Pairs as early as you can, but that's /super/ boring.

[@pairot01]

Doc has officially entered his mad scientist phase

[@drspectred]

entered???

[@inordirectional]

1 in 3 chance for blue seals seems pretty good. Basically the same odds as a standard celestial pack.

[@colindanger3396]

So this upcoming gameplay update… what do you secretly hope will be included? And what do you realistically expect will be in it? And is there anything you’re hoping won’t be changed?

[@anynameinastorm]

As a dice enjoyer, go ahead and give blue seals a 1-2 chance. :3

[@drspectred]

no difference between these pictures :3

[@purple_cat7836]

5:17 i know you’ve done high point scoring runs where you’ve had other cards than Kings, but how do you feel about the seemingly heavy preference for King deck builds in endless? Maybe I’m just not initiated enough, but I feel like jokers like baron, the one legendary for kings and queens, mime, and dna, and how boss blinds like the serpent and the way that ectoplasm works (to allow for blueprint/brainstorm to maximise points) with high cards (which i feel leans towards the preference for king builds since the card held in hand jokers beat out the played hand ones like sock and buskin when trying to reach naninf especially, and particularly if you have dna w blueprint/brainstorm / skip to serpent which can mitigate the ectoplasm hand size nerf) sort of funnel the meta into this one way of playing, which is a shame IMO because part of the fun of balatro for me is trying to win with a bunch of different builds

[@purple_cat7836]

i recently had a really good run with wee joker and lucky cat alongside brainstorm, blueprint, and hack, but it still didn’t get near to my best long run w baron

[@javid62663]

Making the blue seal chance based makes larger hands much worse. Now you only need 2 seals in hand for max value, if its chance based you need as many seals in hand as possible.

[@JonBowden-x2q]

My first thought was "you did WHAT?"

[@jakethewolfie119]

1 in 2 that you receive the correct planet card, receive a random planet card otherwise

[@runningbull73]

I wonder if having the blue seal being scored in the round winning hand is a happy medium between the current 100% chance when held or any x% chance in the future.

[@giantermite7039]

Yeah, blue seal is definitely overpowered. My thought at the time was to add a cost -- blue seal charges $1 or $2 for each planet it creates. Heck, maybe even $3. Giving it a random chance to hit is probably the right way to do it, but feels like that mechanic is a bit overused. Feels like could be fun to add in a new issue to optimize for -- having a bkue seal in hand and an open slot is actually a detriment if you end the round with a random hand. I mean, it's not a brand new problem to tru to work around cards in hand you don't want in hand, but this would be the most painful.

[@Kapppa]

I only disliked the square jonkler at first cuz I was playing almost exclusively 5-card hands. Once I learned high card & pair, square EASILY became one of the best early game pickups. The mini game's not even annoying either. Show me a square jonkler hater and I'll show you a flush/straight gamer.

[@colindanger3396]

Sunday morning science class. I’m here for it ❤

[@patum3588]

Dock put off his glasses?!

[@PharmDiff]

On the topic of balance updates, would joker skip tags be worth it if it was guaranteed to not be perishable/rental/eternal (maybe leave eternal)? Some shops you are rerolling $7-20 without finding a non-debuffed joker. I feel like the skip mechanic currently is a waste, being the best option only in Ante 1 and only a select few skip tags.

[@Niteshade_]

I more of a cubed up guy myself

[@AwsomeAbsol25]

I really don't like trying to balance the game, the thing I always loved with inscryption was the games willingness to just let you be very overpowered if you played your cards right and if you got a little lucky. I really don't want the lottery to become a major skill game. But I feel like every game should be winnable, not every 1 in 5 or something

[@acantilado]

I tend to gravitate towards straight builds so there is no way you are convincing to to use Square lol

[@MD-qt1of]

The fact that youre fighting so hard to nerf blue seals is really upsetting :( its so fun as it is, please just let it be :(

[@furretwalky]

sad part is that he won, i think thunk confrimed that blue seals are getting nerfed in the future

[@taurelith4867]

​@@furretwalky if thunk did it it's probably because he also thought blue seals deserved a nerf for the sake of challenge. doc is just adding his 2 cents to the discourse, if you want to give negative feedback on the nerf im sure you can also do it

[@Eddie-th8ei]

if you are on pc, there will probably be a mod that makes blue seal have its old behavior, if it gets nerfed

[@DeepseaGaming1000]

It's fun to use them but if they're all that get used, the rest of the game gets de-emphasised and is less fun overall. Having a high variety of decisions that are of roughly equal value helps keep the game lively

[@michaelmcnulty1206]

It’s fun to play with something overpowered for a while but when it dramatically limits the challenge, the game will be less engaging overall. having something be significantly stronger than many other things reduces the strategies that *feel* viable to play even if it doesn’t actually reduce what is viable, it just is difficult to force yourself to do suboptimal things when you know with certainty they’re not the right call

[@inhaleaesthetic]

I disagree that blue seals are too powerful, in my experience playing the only way to be able to pull them them reliably has been through significant deck fixing, and if I'm able to pull that off I deserve my reward.

[@StellaByLuna]

Is it possible to get negative score by getting a X-1 on the stencil by getting two negative invisible jokers and selling them, copying non-stencil cards, giving you 7/5 joker slots filled, so in theory -1 empty joker slots not including stencil

[@chaytondouglas5827]

It’s only additive based on how many open joker slots, so any jokers over the max amount wouldn’t effect it

[@SadShape]

Negative jokers actually increase your max joker slots. Having 5 normal and 2 negative jokers on a regular deck it will say 7/7 jokers, not 7/5. Edit: And I believe copying a joker removes the negative effect, but I'm not sure if that applies to all types of copying.

[@eclipsekaos6548]

​@@SadShapeneg invis is (for exaple) 6/6 and then when you sell it takes away negative but still dupes a joker so you then have 6/5

[@TwentySeventhLetter]

Stencil will display "-1" on the tooltip if you have more jokers than slots, but it will always be at minimum x1, i.e. no effect, rather than detrimental.

[@StellaByLuna]

@@TwentySeventhLetter Gotcha, that's interesting!

[@yathaut]

Just watched the gold stake black deck video before this 😂

[@vg4917]

lt dont nerf Blu seal noooo

[@cameronscottnolan]

You're a wizard

[@kheartztv]

First red card, now this. He's out here trying to make the community cause a riot. 😂

[@Roaka]

My idea for the blue seal nerf would be to have the blue seal give a random planet based on your top 3 most played hands. I think this would offer strength for playing a variety of hands which is what i think is what the people who wish the for the blue seal nerf want. I am fine with blue seals as they are now however if they are going to be changed I hope it would be something like this rather than having a 1 in x chance to receive a card at all. Edit: I have just considered that it would be difficult to upgrade a new hand outside the top 3, like a secret hand. I think instead it should give planet card between the winning hand and your other top 2 hands. So it would be a 1 in 3. I think this general idea has promise, it needs some refinment and for it to have an easy to understand description

[@saxdraw]

"In this blue seal meta" Me somehow getting 80% of the decks to gold stake with barely if ever picking up blue seals and just fighting for my life with packs and scaling jokers

[@PatPharmD]

Square is the second best common chips joker after runner. But your tier list had it in F tier IIRC. Blatant disrespect for the square lad 😢

[@riverbnds]

the wee man has something to say to you (i cant read)

[@eclipsekaos6548]

Blue?

[@eclipsekaos6548]

​@riverbnds they said common

[@riverbnds]

@@eclipsekaos6548 whoopsie

[@PatPharmD]

@@eclipsekaos6548 Blue is dynamic and decreases in value within a round as you use hands and discards to dig through your deck. It also gets worse as you thin (improve) your deck over time. Sure there's no ramp up time and you get chips immediately applying to all hand types but the average value of 60-80 chips it provides is relatively mediocre and stops being worthwhile past the first few antes.

[@anthonumazullo7321]

You should do the same video except make it so you get square in ante 2-3 I think most people instantly take it as the first joker

[@cavejohnson4054]

Yeah but, if you have 100 chips, and you add 100 chips, that’s a x2 mult; but if you have 400 chips and add 100 chips, that’s 1.25x; diminishing returns

[@Expelsword]

I said it before that I would much rather have the current Blue Seals that are too strong, compared to the previous version that was utterly useless. I think 1/2 chance is probably the best place to start, making it random again just makes it terrible, or not-quite random in a weird way makes it too complex. Plus, giving those dice another good use can't hurt. EDIT: Oh, you basically said all of this in the video.

[@jahmaniart]

i think nerfing blue seals is a bad idea for the fun of the game but it can't hurt to atleast try it i guess🤷‍♂

[@baileytran4013]

Not saying he isn't powerful but I don't like to play around him.

[@ajaxmajor]

i will always be a red card hater but square is my lover

[@iiballisticpanda]

What if blue seal was changed to be a negative random planet edit: idk how much those would sell for so maybe not lol