You Used To Be Christians, What Do You Think a Christian Is? | Fred - FL | Talk Heathen 03.49

[@JimHoffmaster]

The moment he asked, "What do you think a Christian is?", I knew we were headed into "No True Scotsman"- territory...

[@antoniorobles8706]

+1

[@veranicus6696]

Yeah same here. I was expecting the same. In Germany the phrase is : (roughly translated) You know your lifestock, by the tread. (Man erkennt seine Schweine am Gang)

[@gerhardjasongeick4229]

Yup

[@jesusislord9758]

What's the difference between a trans woman and a biological woman? There is a difference just like being a Christian and a cultural Christian. '' no true scotsman" is irrelevant.

[@phxcppdvlazi]

@@jesusislord9758 equivocation fallacy

[@brentmiller3951]

I love when Christians say you were never a Christian because my denomination interpreted it differently

[@simonbaker6962]

If God came inside me I would call the police and obtain a restraining order.

[@skaetur1]

If God came in you I would call you Mary.

[@Sephiroth2286]

Ikr!! I'm not a slut

[@AndRew-vo9bz]

Remember that’s forced penetration and he clearly doesn’t use protection just look at mary!!!

[@brandonhall4547]

😂Im currently searching for Jesus in the creampie catagory in PornHub

[@nosavepoints]

@@skaetur1 Would that be rape since no consent was given? I think I need to ask the local priest. 😲

[@prof.mrsirdr1896]

If you were a person that believed in santa claus as a child, then no longer believed as an adult, did you never truly believe in santa?

[@larjkok1184]

Yeah, Fred has lost his mind. If he ever was a vegetarian and now after 30 years of eating no meat he tries a cheeseburger, was he ever a vegetarian?

[@waxberry4]

If there's a holy book that says so.

[@speedynakamoto9570]

unfair bringing santa into this

[@speedynakamoto9570]

He knows when you have been bad or good. You dont want to be on his bad list.

[@Religion-Is-Fiction]

Jesus Christ is just 🎅 Santa Claus for adults, I believe is what Seth Andrews says

[@DutchJoan]

"They left us because they never were a part of us", that are the most hurtful and dismissive words christians say about former christians. Hats off for the way you handle callers like Fred. I still choke up with hurt and anger when people say it to me.

[@MacLaw3084]

shonkee gogo f*** off

[@MacLaw3084]

sorry you gotta deal with that. their loss.

[@perryegolson833]

It's very cult-like. That's the way cults are when you leave. I'm not sure if you are familiar with multi-level marketing but it's essentially a pyramid scheme and they manage to stay legal because technically they sell products. They rely on recruiting people into these companies to "start their own business" by paying into it. Well, many of these people leave when they realize they have been duped. And it's the same thing. When you are in the company they say all these positive things about you, but when you decide to leave because you see it's just a scam, they berate you and chastise you and call you a quitter, a loser, whatever. It's a lot like a cult, and multi-level marketing mimics a lot of the same behaviors as Christianity. Fascinating study in human behavior.

[@2l84me8]

They say things like that because they don’t want to entertain the notion that if an honest believer can lose their faith, then so could they themselves as well.

[@razorbeard6970]

Those that espouse that saying are those who believe in eternal security of salvation. To them, salvation being lost is impossible therefore the only possibility left is that you didn't ever truly believe. The whole belief is a cop out and you shouldn't allow it to hurt you. You're operating on different wavelengths with those who say that. The truth is: God is responsible for those who believe and those who don't. If we believe, then it is a work of God and if we don't it's also a choice by God. Believers know this intuitively however, they've been trained to believe that evil is that which is not God. They would have you believe that asserting God is ultimately responsible for everything including evil is ridiculous and projection of our evil onto God. They can't prove God didn't create evil when it's written between the lines in the Bible and probably every holy book.

[@wynlewis5357]

Hey, look here you athiests .. "I am a Christian and I am so strong in my faith that my mind is closed to everything else in the world". Fred from Florida

[@JLocke573]

So to be a "true" christian you have to believe in it blindly and never change your mind no matter what.

[@sandeman1776]

That's all I've ever seen from them. Look at their eyes when they talk about their "personal relationship" with Gawd or Allah or Ganesh or whatever. The eyes get bigger, the more they ignore.

[@fredcloud1619]

The closest word to faith is trust. As in a marriage, you say your vows to each other and then spend a lifetime of getting closer to each other, trusting that they will be faithful to you, denying others that desire to take that intimate place of a spouse.

[@sandeman1776]

@@fredcloud1619 except that faith is blind and demanded without reason, while trust is something that is earned through actual action.

[@fredcloud1619]

Trusting in Jesus is much more reliable than trusting that a spouse will stay faithful in thought and deed.

[@sandeman1776]

@@fredcloud1619 sure. I can trust Jesus not to do anything today, just like yesterday. But I have no faith that he existed at all, let alone was the son of Gawd. The spouse, on the other hand, hopefully, has gained enough trust to gain that position in your life. If you knew them long enough to know they aren't going to cheat (thoughts aren't cheating BTW) and be the partner you need, then THEY deserve more trust than Jeebus.

[@dukeemzworth3005]

"There has been only one Christian. They caught him and crucified him - early." ... Mark Twain.

[@dukeemzworth3005]

"I bring you the stately matron named Christendom, returning bedraggled, besmirched, and dishonored, from pirate raids in Manchuria, South Africa, and the Philipines, with her soul full of meanness, her pocket full of boodle, and her mouth full of pious hypocrisies. Give her soap and towel, but hide the looking glass." ... Mark Twain

[@TimGoodeMetalworks]

Uriah Heep it’s not propaganda, watch the video of his own grandson talking about him. You also obviously have not read his own writings or you would have seen his multiple references to the black south Africans and also to sleeping with young girls but not interacting with them as a test of his resolve.

[@hannostadler7224]

@Uriah Heep And that makes it okay? Because it was permissable at some point in the past, it should be accepted? No thanks. As a South African, I can promise you it doesn't matter that it was widely used back then. It was used, full stop.

[@hannostadler7224]

@Uriah Heep I already did, mate. You will get through this, though. I believe in you.

[@hannostadler7224]

@Uriah Heep Well, evidently you do.

[@toastedcheeze2357]

Wow! You guys are so kind and patient with these annoying callers.

[@theinherentfloyd3393]

This guy says he understands No True Scotsman, then immediately goes for No True Christian. Dolt.

[@deansommers9509]

@Dj Luminol I would be interested to hear a Christian's thoughts on the other religions, for example, do they think that if a Muslim becomes an ex-Muslim, were they ever a "true" Muslim to begin with. Or if a Hindu becomes an ex-Hindu, were they ever a "true" Hindu to begin with, etc.

[@miconis123]

That's cause No True Scotsman was conquered in battle by No True Christian. It's the superior fallacy as determined by combat.

[@Mewse1203]

Hey man, don't just throw a label on it and dismiss him 😂🤣

[@Mewse1203]

@@fff8947 Good job bud. You just committed the No True Scotsman. There are 45,000 DIFFERENT denominations inside Christianity, and that is just those who exist today, because no one could agree from the very beginning what Christian was. Even in the early days tgere were different sects of Christians with differing views. That's why the heresies exist.

[@Mewse1203]

@@fff8947 A lot. The 4 Gospels that we have now are not the only ones written. There were many others and they show different sides of what people thought Christianity should be and WAS. This includes different versions of what rituals to follow, the story of Jesus, Christianity was never a single thing. In fact, what is considered Heresy today is actually what was primarily the original manifestation of Christianity. It was made up of fragmented groups with different ideologies. Gnostics, Marcionics, Montanics, just to name a few.

[@MrDorbel]

"You might try to connect those two things in a way that doesn't cause massive cognitive dissonance and get back to us". Vi you are wonderful!

[@whitneydouglas4794]

Eric is so proud of Vi with her soil parable take-down.

[@JayMaverick]

No stopping Vi's razor sharp wit.

[@johnsperry9494]

One time I ended up going to church for some reason (wife’s parents, long story), and after the service, the pastor mingled with the congregation. I told him, “I thought your sermon about Jesus was really incredible!” He said, “Thank you.” And I said, “Maybe you should look up that word.”

[@maxnullifidian]

"He only employs his passion who can make no use of his reason." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

[@michaelcritter7933]

"does the soil have any choice?"... I adore this thought.

[@RAD-ju1ru]

I used to struggle financially, but now I have a really great job. By Fred's logic I have always been financially stable, I just didn't know it.

[@RAD-ju1ru]

@@snakedoctor433 Alright then, what someone does or doesn't 'believe' is subject to the judgement of others as to its correctness. Sound about right?

[@alexisjuillard4816]

that guy is actually surprised that athiests don't believe now that the holy spirit was in them when they had faith!?

[@miconis123]

@checky monkey And if you let them in before, but then kicked them out, they have to stay out.

[@gnosticagnostic9326]

I think the problem is two parts and cumulative. First, he's identifying the set of feelings brought about by reading scripture or worship as "the holy spirit". Secondly, he sees the presence of "the holy spirit" as evidence to support the belief. I think most former Christian's will admit to having those experiences and to labeling those experiences as "the holy spirit". What changes is the labeling process and the standard of evidence. It can be difficult to explain why a stronger epistemology is warranted. It reminds me of Plato's cave.

[@c-mandawg]

Lame old no true scotsman fallacy. Really, conversations with the religious about faith really becomes lame, stale and boring, at this stage of my life there isnt anything I havent heard before......

[@markmehlhorn2836]

Fred Fred your logic is dead! (Fred Sanford) 🤣😂🤣😂

[@pizzapunk8816]

if i wasn't an atheist i'd pray for america.

[@osubeaver9976]

I really hope this era comes to be known as our "peak stupid" time, but I'm too old to be that optimistic.

[@Diviance]

@@osubeaver9976 Oh, how I wish this was as stupid as we could be. I wish it was. But we have thoroughly proven, time and again, that the thing we are best at... is proving that the rabbit hole of stupidity has no bottom.

[@tach5884]

@@osubeaver9976 We do like breaking our old records don't we? Eventually we'll do something so stupid that the streak will end. I imagine it will be as tragic as it is hilarious.

[@adamlitz8052]

@@tach5884 this is what scares me the most about the movie "idiocrocy"

[@godless_pacifist]

@@adamlitz8052that movie used to be a comedy but as time goes on it’s becoming more of a horror movie.

[@Frynge357]

what strikes me about the fellow: "you're saying there's no holy spirit, which means there are no Christians!" ...he utterly ignored the definition of "Christian" that was set at the beginning of the call.

[@karlrschneider]

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!" "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over. -Emo Phillips

[@bobbydrake07017]

It's really a challenge to be civil with these guys like this. Cognitive dissonance is a up hill fight, they are not open to objectivity.

[@theotakux5959]

6:07 Him laughing at, and the mouthing, "do do" cracked me up...

[@jamesppesch]

No true Scotsman + special pleading

[@davids11131113]

When I was a Christian kid, there’s a whole lot of family and peer pressure in that community ‘to believe’ and if they see you’re questioning, an ‘intervention’ pretty much takes place. I don’t think I ever really believed god and Jesus were actually real, you had to say you did though!

[@noracola5285]

I think I managed to convince myself that I really did believe it, which sounds like a weird thing to say but it was a process of continually lying to myself and combatting cognitive dissonance through creative excuses. So much usurped brain power; it's no wonder they all sound so idiotic.

[@maxnullifidian]

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." - Luke 14:26

[@alicewoods611]

Ask him about Santa Claus. Did you believe in Santa when a child? Yes. Do you believe in Santa now? No. Hmmm, what if I said that you were never a Santa Believer?

[@Reno_Slim]

So if I was never really a Christian then that means I was never really an idiot. Thanks for letting me off the hook.

[@justanotheratheist578]

Holy crap, Vi just forced a blue screen on this guys mind with that free will argument.

[@PTRCOZARGH]

5:00 he said "doo doo"🤣 and the hosts caught it.

[@00stobart]

'Did god come inside you?' interestingly this was first recorded as a direct quotation of words spoken by a Jewish carpenter to his young wife in March 1 BC.

[@ultimategamer765]

Am I a kid for laughing every time he says Jesus came inside me?

[@sarahpoynter9652]

I remember the first time I met someone who had a different definition of Christian. I was in high school and she believed you had to speak in tongs to be saved. I thought that it was crazy lol

[@YY4Me133]

*tongues

[@areid5907]

Have you ever heard anyone talking without their tongue? That would be really special.

[@prof.mrsirdr1896]

A christian is defined as any person that believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ. No other criteria needed. Anything you add is a denomination.

[@NeverTalkToCops1]

"Divinity" Magic word for fictional being.

[@maneatingcheeze]

I would say a christian is one who follows the idea of jesus christ. There can be nonreligious christians. I've meet some before.

[@fredcloud1619]

To be a Christian is to be like Christ in nature, no comparison at all.

[@caioribeiro3104]

@@fredcloud1619, Satan isn't "a person". His definition still valid. Good observation, though.

[@fredc61]

Kristo Veeroja to be technical, to be a Christian a person needs to repent of their sin and place their trust in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. The definition of the word Christian is Christlike or to be like Christ. Yes non-Christians sometimes to a better job at being Christlike than some Christians.

[@IsaacHarris]

Wow. And he started out sounding like a nice, reasonable guy.

[@powbobs]

Religious people always lie. Any signs of being nice or reasonable are simply a facade.

[@leviteach710]

Vi with the dunk at 16:33

[@jaewaitwhat4412]

Eric, that line about KoRn just made you my favorite atheist. You really spoke my heart there, brother.

[@Bashamo257]

"Did God come inside me?" - Mary

[@greghelton4668]

AdamFSmith somebody did.

[@serpentinious7745]

"Pure simple indoctrination-I-mean-logic tells me-I-mean-us that I must be right!" He reached the very 1st hurdle on the path to intellectual honesty and tripped so hard his face left a crater.

[@Steelmage99]

Why make it so difficult? A Christian is a person, who believes in the god described in the Bible. Seems like a sufficient and adequate definition to me.

[@raycasias8144]

You would think so, wouldn't you? But there are thousands of (1 true) gods of the bible because it's full of subjective, contradictory, mistranslated, disingenuous, ill defined malleable horseshit that to say you're christian means absolutely nothing in any application. Bizarre and nonsensical. But I see what you meant. It's nowhere as simple or honest as saying that a christian is one who believes in the god of the bible.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@@raycasias8144 I don't know about thousands, but there's certainly a whole pantheon of them, they're called the Anunnaki.

[@alicewoods611]

One who believes in the god of the bible is a theist. Period. A christian believes in the JC character in the bible as well as god.

[@stevieduggan1763]

It may be adequate and sufficient but is it rational? 🤔

[@alicewoods611]

Not quite. One must accept JC as the "savior" to be a christian.

[@dougkampe6117]

I hope this person listens to this again. He seems like a good person. You can hear the rattling of the columns supporting his beliefs.

[@TheCheapPhilosophy]

"Holy spirit"is christian for "special pleading you are not allow to question".

[@maxnullifidian]

"Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions." - Jerry Falwell

[@rockysandman5489]

@@maxnullifidian Falwell is partially wrong then. Speaking from experience as a soldier, you can ask questions, you can even question information or orders/commands from commanders, but you do have to obey them so long as it's not an unlawful/illegal order. Then again, it can depend what point you're at in service. In some instances, your commander/s will inform you when they don't want to be asked questions. Otherwise, when in Basic you're expected to not question as just follow orders. After basic training when you're in Regular, routine is more laid back and so you're allowed to speak more freely during routine, and question etc. I can only think of the point of basic training or combatant training where discipline is tighter to the point that you don't question.

[@thomasreedy4751]

The Holy Sprit is your conscience, operating under your indoctrination. The Holy Spirit exists. It is just not holy or a spirit.

[@arthurferns4890]

These are my favourite presenters . Tbh they’re all great on here They have incredible patience , intelligence and humour . Eric would be the best mate ever ! Keep it up folks . Awesome stuff

[@maxnullifidian]

"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?" - James Madison

[@G_Demolished]

Book of unbelievable things predicts that people won’t believe it, includes passages to dismiss unbelievers.

[@KrustyKlown]

She said: "JESUS !!!, I told you NOT to come inside ... " He said: "why do you hate Jesus"

[@SuLorito]

12-Step program members say, and I was one for 25 years, that only a TRUE addict wants the program. So, when someone leaves and stays clean, they weren't really an addict. They separate the meaning of physical addiction and being a TRUE addict as if "the disease" is an entity of itself.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Didnt « god » come inside the « virgin » mary?

[@Fernando-ek8jp]

I'm glad that in the end he at least heard enough to pause.

[@anonymousjohnson976]

Is Fred saying that non-believers cannot have "fruits of the spirit?" I know non-believers who have love, joy, peace, patience, and are kind and good. So, Fred, your definition of a Christian can also be the definition of a non-believer.

[@joecoolioness6399]

I am a much better "christian" than my bible thumping sister in law.

[@justwood8440]

I definitely agree with this caller and his assessment of you guys, (actually all of the people who have been on the show, even Matt). It is truly awesome to see people who are so patient and tolerant of other people and their beliefs. The way you stay true to your beliefs, stay (generally) calm and collected and stay true to intellectual integrity is something that never ceases to impress me personally. Keep the great work up all and have a great holiday season.

[@tillyrivers6054]

Really simple: I used to believe in Santa Claus. Now I don't. Does it mean that I didn't truly believe in Santa? No. This view is so condescending and ignorant. It makes me so sad for the people stuck in this mindset.

[@Lucas20520]

Whoever put this video together really really really wanted to use that as the title on this thumbnail! That's hilarious 😆😂🤣

[@MrFosite]

Fred:"I reject reality and substitute it with my own, cause book"

[@MrFosite]

@@redeemedone8553 Fred made it rather easy to also speak for him, cause he didn't exactly hide the fact he rejects other peoples experiences and claims and insert hes own.

[@MrFosite]

@@redeemedone8553 "It was not my own thoughts, it was what the bible says" How is that different from my original statement. "If they are claiming to be bible-believing Christians" As both of them said, they USED to belief, so they USED to think in pretty similar ways you now do, they just don't do so anymore, that isn't the same as never have. I on the other hand never believed any off it, but i also never claimed to be of any religion. "Christianity has been around for a long time" That something has been around for a long time doesn't give it any credibility nor justification. "has Doctrine that is well established" Well established all depends on how you look at it, cause Christianity has a lot of schism's not to mention more denominations than one person can even remember. So clearly not that well established cause those claiming the faith can't even agree with each other. At least they have all one thing in common, i think they are all bull shit and haven't proven their claims to be true what so ever. Plus seem to really be useless when it comes to being able to lead a happy or good life, all they add is a lot of nonsensical rules that they require people to follow, and worse try and force on others to life by.

[@MrFosite]

@@redeemedone8553 See my first comments.

[@n1ghtmar3mach1n3]

@@redeemedone8553 Problem with that: the bible is horseshit.

[@ianalan4367]

​@@n1ghtmar3mach1n3 The Bible does not justify Christianity. It's not like someone found the book then formed a religion from it. The Bible evolved from the religion of Jesus Christ. That is why the premise of an anti-Christian stating what the Bible means is so meaningless. We have over 2K years of theology and doctrine to know what it means. I don't believe in 'the god' atheists seem to hate either. It is a grossly distorted view.

[@TeethToothman]

Lol he said "condensending" lol

[@egoquid8848]

If you cant test for the holy spirit and magic there is no way of knowing if ANYONE is a Christian. Including yourself.

[@mystiquevening]

It breaks my heart…. I was a christian… I breathed it, I lived it, every thought was turned towards god, every thought I had god was included in it. He was everything to me… it was my entire existence for 29 years… if those closest to me, who knew all I did was speak with god on my mind, were to tell me I was never a true Christian… it would tear me apart. It would be kind of traumatizing because of what my existence was… ugh. Thanks for this call, it helps me prepare…

[@maxnullifidian]

"Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and bloody religion that has ever infected the world." - Voltaire, in a letter to Frederick the Great

[@Noname-w7f1e]

This is the problem with lables - most people are more preoccupied with those instead of what is behind those labels! I personally think that things should be defined not by their origin or their labels but by what they do. The best example is the human himself: it doesn’t matter where you’re from, how wealthy and civilized was the family that raised you - what’s more important is wether you are successful yourself or not.

[@VoiceOfIrrationality]

So being a "Christian" means (by definition) that Christianity is true. So if he claims to be a Christian we can say, "please demonstrate that you are a Christian by proving that Christianity is true, otherwise I will not accept that you're a Christian." Also how can Fred know he's a Christian? Eric THOUGHT he was a Christian (by Fred's definition). Maybe Fred is now where Eric was and Fred just thinks he's a Christian but isn't really. Fred's whole position is fraught with epistemological land mines.

[@TheZoomoftheWell]

I searched youtube for “who do i talk to, to become christian” and this was the first video. I do not know what this means, if it means anything. I heard fred’s direction and i saw the hosts’ inclinations. I was raised christian, became atheist, was reborn, then atheist again and now coming into my 40s and rethinking my framework. I couldn’t possibly assume to know how the universe (or in this context, everything) works. In this video, I observed logic traps - or paradigm traps - not smart enough myself to extrapolate. Point being - our biological software, i think, has an innate limitation on understanding. When we get caught up in these word/logic games, i think we lose our opportunities towards understanding. I have no idea where i stand now - but I feel i can see myself in the hosts as well as fred. This is a confusing predicament we are in where evidence and providence seem at odds, but may not necessarily be. I wish the viewers of this videos peace and well being and urge everyone to treat one another with love. Be well be safe and rock on.

[@mrjekyllandhyde9941]

because the bible says..........aha proof er not really dude also his argument is like saying if I was once racist and if I then I changed my belief system then I either never was racist or I still am racist . It makes no sense

[@Religion-Is-Fiction]

Saying the Bible is proof of God is saying a Spiderman comic book is proof of Spiderman. It doesn't wash.

[@brucebaker810]

Hey Fred. Get 3 friends from your church. Call 9 other churches and set up a circle. The 4 from your church, A attend church B. B attends C. And around the circle. Each 4 does a speech telling that congregation what makes a person a Christian. The congregation responds. Do that for 10 weeks. The survivors can come tell the atheists what a true Christian is. And we'll discuss it.

[@brucebaker810]

@@fff8947 Google "No True Scotsman".

[@brucebaker810]

@@fff8947 Why I make what claim? You express yourself, so far, in a way that is odd to me.

[@brucebaker810]

@@fff8947 2 Parts. Because part was written. Then I realized I was, at least in part, mistaken. A. Initial response: 1. To be accurate, I did not claim you used that fallacy. 2. I left it for you to read, on an outside source like wikipedia. So that you could get an objective presentation--not an accusation. 3. Having tread it, you could decide for yourself whether it seemed to apply to you. 4. You didn't. 5. Now that part 1 had a chance to proceed..., I disagree. === Here, I went to get the quote from your OP. See Part B.

[@brucebaker810]

B. Let's look at 3 groups. 1. Eric & Vi 2. The ppl at the churches they attended. 3. You, @FF F I had reacted to your odd in-group term. ""The indwelling Holy Spirit is a requirement to be a Christian in them all." You figure E&V never got the critical info. That their churches lacked the critical info. But you. You seem to have this criticalk info. You are defining True Christian in terms of possession of this critical info. Hence, committed NTS. I thought I was wrong since inference didn't cover you. On reflection, it did. By definition. Please try to consider that calmly for awhile before responding. To avoid knee-jerk defensiveness.

[@brucebaker810]

@@fff8947 Other Xians may agree entirely. Others somewhat. Others not at all. You assert it's just part of the core definition, plain and simple. Like sugar on your porridge. And you don't even see it. That's pretty much inevitable too. 100.

[@MacLaw3084]

Who put Mary in charge of the thumbnails again? Btw you misspelled “come”. You’re welcome. - a concerned heathen

[@maxnullifidian]

"Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly." - Isaac Asimov

[@anthonynorman7545]

I'm disappointed. The thumbnail had me thinking there was more zany sexy stuff involved. 😂

[@tedgrant2]

At the end, Fred said something very revealing.

[@TheWeebs1968]

Ask every caller to start every answer they give, without starting their sentence with the bible says, or the scriptures say, or the holy book says, and see where it goes, because without that crutch, they must only have real evidence.

[@1369Stiles]

@@redeemedone8553 the point is to avoid circular reasoning.

[@teknicron1080]

@@redeemedone8553 Which god, be specific . . . and what prophecies . . . a prophecy is nothing more than a story, and a prophet is naught but a story teller.

[@rockysandman5489]

@@teknicron1080 Based on shonkee's comments and that he hasn't replied back, I'm loosely inferring that they're a troll.

[@teknicron1080]

@@rockysandman5489 most likely, just enjoy pointing out their stupidity.

[@jesperjee]

It's so hard to listen to callers who simply cannot understand things. You just want to shake them hard.

[@gerhardjasongeick4229]

Is the book of Eric a real thing? If so, where can I find it.

[@Gaston-Melchiori]

16:50 i didn't know cognitive dissonance had a sound... We can hear live how his 2 neurones dance the macarena, is majestic.

[@drlegendre]

A Christian is someone who accepts the divinity of Jesus Christ. There.

[@fredcloud1619]

Satan knows that Jesus is divine... and trembles, is he Christian too?

[@juangarza320]

@@fredcloud1619 hal satan. Literally means the adversary. So yeah. He is the Cristian satan. Just like thiphon would be the greek satan, sutr the nordic satan and apofis the egiptian satan. None of them actually exists. But within the mythology, yeah. Why not?

[@fredcloud1619]

All of your knowledge is confusing you. satan comes to kill steal and destroy. Jesus came that we would have abundant life, no comparison with satan’s goal.

[@caioribeiro3104]

@@fredcloud1619, Satan looks like an convincing excuse ancient people create to justify all the bad things that happen, despite an all-knowing, all-powerful and all-good God that, for some reason, let them happen... I'm sure you'd find imoral if anyone allows evil things happen to others just to prove a point, or to win a bet... How does that didn't apply to an existing god?

[@Diviance]

@@redeemedone8553 Yes. They would necessarily be. They would, in fact, be in the best position to be Christians... they _know_ God exists and that Jesus is/was divine. Which, of course, makes the whole story completely absurd because how fucking dumb do you have to be to rebel against something that can literally end your existence without even so much as a thought, is completely invincible and immortal and knows you are rebelling before you even start.

[@eveharris30]

I was in high school and now I'm not. I was never in high school because I left. I use to smoke now I don't. I never smoked to begin with.

[@Heretical_Theology]

He doesn’t worship Jesus- he worships the bible

[@johnd.shultz7423]

Some years ago a good friend of mine joined Calvery Chapel, became indoctrinated by Chuck Smith himself,accepted Jesus as his personal redeemer/savior=was "born again" and Forgiven.He then started cheating on his wife,drinking even more than he previously did ,started a cocaine habit,while telling me (and others) that because he was" Forgiven" his bad habits etc.were not an issue and unlike us (non believers), he was going to heaven when he died, as its not good actions that earn our way to heaven but simply believing that he was redeemed was all he needed to be saved,while were destined to spend Eternity in hell.

[@chrismurray3224]

Pink Floyd/David Gilmour does the same thing every time I’ve seen them !!!

[@beastemeauxde7029]

Omg, read the thumbnail and was like, "wasn't gonna, but let's go". That's my kinda title work.

[@ottonormalverbrauch3794]

Fred's quite the circular reasoner thinking he's being perfectly logical.

[@mercyfae7533]

Much respect for you, Eric! ^^

[@lmoral222]

Conversation started well, got a bit heated, then settled down and ended on what I would consider a good note (AKA no kicking and screaming...leave that to the comment section). Good work, TH.

[@dakotawayne2065]

[Distant quiet yelling of Eric's mom] "~do you have any cups in your bedroom?"

[@geoffcrumblin7505]

I have my God inside me quite often. The all-seeing all-knowing Flying Spaghetti Monster is quite at home inside me.

[@freshairkaboom8171]

Kinky

[@ffsno9078]

R'amen

[@karlrschneider]

I would like to reassure all you folks that there are intelligent, rational and sane people in Florida. I know this beause I lived there for a while and met them both.

[@canderson5098]

wrong said fred

[@Amalekites]

Lord Voldemort came inside me and now I'm fluent in parseltongue.

[@willytingles]

I just came here to say "Phrasing!"

[@troyevitt2437]

Do you want theists? Because THIS is how we get theists. Archer's writers were total wusses for letting ISIS make them write out I.S.I.S. as in "I.S.I.S. vs O.D.I.N.".

[@barkYdarkATFB]

@willytingles it made me click tho

[@unicorn.mushroom]

Bwuahahaha I loved the phrasing!

[@MalBishop18]

They were getting pretty close to the 'danger zone'

[@michaelvout7813]

It is interesting that many of the most articulate atheists were previous Christians. I might suggest that this is because ( as Eric correctly points out), these are people who know a lot about Christianity and the bible and through honest investigation- have discovered the weaknesses in the religion.

[@DangStank]

“It’s almost like these people don’t agree with what the Bible says”

[@troyevitt2437]

Uh, yeah. All 4 of my grandparents were Southern Baptist. My mom converted to Jehovah's Witnesses after marrying my dad. So my parents, in a bizarre theological détente, agreed to take me to Baptist Sunday school and Kingdom Hall on alternate Sundays. Nothing like studying Comparative Religions before kindergarten.

[@troyevitt2437]

@BookkeeperBill Yes, especially considering my mother eventually divorced my father and in her quest for financial independence, she started selling Avon Beauty door-to-door. As you can imagine, this becomes doubly confusing for a Jehovah's Witness child because when Mom knocks on some poor schmuck's door, you don't know if she's gonna shove a Watchtower in their face or spritz them with Sweet Honesty body spray. Then after one afternoon of Field Service (door-knocking), we got home and were making dinner when the Mormons came to our door. Mom came to the door and said, "We are not interested" and slammed the door. Seems Mom missed the opportunity. That or she thought they were gonna spritz her with Sweet Honesty.

[@fredcloud1619]

It is confusing and forever changing when Christians mix the old and new covenants, making countless ways of attaining righteousness with God.

[@cygnustsp]

@@troyevitt2437 wow, that is really interesting. I grew up jw and had zero experience with other faiths except being told that "born agains" were difficult to reason with.

[@karlrschneider]

The good news is that someday we will finally resolve the old question of whether religion is the cause...or the result...of insanity; then we can work on a cure for both.

[@PBAmygdala2021]

Cure option #1: increased funding for education Cure option #2: a CRISPR regimen that reduces dopamine flow to the limbic system while increasing dopamine and serotonin flow to the prefrontal cortex, coupled with a clever marketing campaign to entice willful consumption

[@StannisHarlock]

In essence, his argument is that if there is no god, then there is no such thing as a Christian, which is a semantic misunderstanding of how reality works. If there is no god, Christians are simply wrong because the book they adhere to is wrong. The group of people who have had such a profound affect on history for thousands of years doesn't vanish into smoke. In reality, Christianity is simply defined by affect it has had on the world, and not the false rules an old book describes.

[@MrKit9]

That's a great point. Thanks.

[@StannisHarlock]

@@MrKit9 You bet! :-)

[@danmosketti2635]

@@StannisHarlock wrong again dragon breath!

[@danmosketti2635]

No thanks! You're correct on the christian-troll! Ooh you guy's are so mean you fat-ass gay fuck you!

[@seanbirch]

@@danmosketti2635 Oh, an intellectual

[@tristanwolfe119]

You went to a concert and you felt like someone had come inside of you? Were you inattentive with your drink or did you have backstage passes?

[@mgresham424]

Bruh the mods told us to stop making this joke in the live chat 😂😂😂

[@Roberto-ku6ou]

Lol...damn best caption title I’ve read in a long time

[@mariopantoja8259]

I experienced the holy spirit at age 20 at a warehouse rave party on e.

[@israelthompson2892]

Hey now, limp bizkit's first album was 🔥

[@Anony3141592]

_Honk If You Love Fred Durst_? It's time for the messiah of hardcore Christian Inc Son, reverse your baseball cap, jerk your arms like Lancelot link It's born again stone phat bitch-ass boy fantasy religion Feed the holy moshpit, Limp Bizkit communion -- TISM

[@rejinc]

The brainwashed is deep in this one. Always , using the bible to prove anything is just flawed. Cause this old book says so......

[@CujoKelly]

Can you imagine selling your soul and the devil comes back with a Korn song. I'd demand a refund.

[@Longtack55]

I've often pondered how god's spirit/seed/IVF entered the body of Joseph's wife Mary and presumed that god is an adulterer or rapist and therefore should be stoned to death beyond the city walls? Please clarify for me please Christians.

[@BFDT-4]

Fred starts out with a big old EXCLUSIONARY tenet. Hah.

[@Hez0]

Great conversation. When you guys were smirking and laughing during the free will section; I was thinking to myself: "oh, they were never reformed in their theology". No big deal. I used to think that there was a tension there too as an atheist a couple of years ago. Can I give you guys a quick run down? The bible clearly teaches that we have no ability to save ourselves and that faith is given to us by God. Yes, we have a will, and yes it is free, but only within the confines of our sinful nature. You don't have the free will to not sin. Go ahead, try it for a day. Please consider what the word of God says in Romans 3. It's worth reading this one nice and slow, putting yourself in his shoes, trying to follow his argument verse by verse (I'm not being condescending, I'm saying this because I've walked through this with professing Christians, and they struggle, even when they're familiar with the context of where this is coming from). *Romans* 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known: 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. To summarise, Paul begins by asking the gentiles who have come to belief in Christ if they are any better than jews, who recieved all the benefits from God (the law, the word, etc) but who rejected him. Paul says no because not only do we all sin, meaning that none of us are justified by our own will and works, but Paul also says that _no man_ seeks for God. Woah! If no man seeks for God, then how do people come to put their faith in Jesus Christ? Faith is _given_ to you: therefore you are justified _by God,_ so man may not boast in themselves. Praise God. As the first chapter of John says: 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Also check out John 6, read the whole chapter (once again, very carefully; this one is a huge stumbling block for professing Christians). It's so clear on this point about saving faith versus mans will: 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. _No man_ can (is capable) of coming to Christ, _except_ (the only exception being) that the Father draw him: and he _will_ (no doubt about it) raise him up at the last day. This not only means that we don't have the free will to have faith by our own will, but that the definition of a Christian, according to Jesus Christ, is that the Christian _will_ be raised at the last day! Wow, the caller was right! Praise God.

[@Hez0]

Am I reading into Jesus' words too much on that last point? 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. He will _in no wise_ cast out. If you look at the greek (google: biblehub john 6:37 interlinear), you'll notice two negative participles which the english translates as "no wise". These are οὐ and μὴ. Isn't that redundant to have two negative participles like that? Nope: it's on purpose. In the greek, it makes it an emphatic negative. In english, it would be the equivalent of saying "and I will never ever not even once cast you out". So, once again, by Jesus' own definition: a Christian makes it to the end. If Jesus, the very Christ, can't define what a Christian is (He is also the very essence of Truth as well by the way: "I am the way, the truth and the life"), then maybe you need to reconsider your use of the no true scotsman fallacy. Now, I know what you're going to say at this point, not only because I said the same thing as an atheist, but also because the apostle Paul, 2000 years ago, could pre-empt what you're thinking: 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, At this point, if you've made it this far, then a healthy reaction to everything that I've said should be _offense._ You should be offended. This is perfectly normal. As I said in the beginning, this offends professing _Christians,_ should it not offend you? The bible is not meant to tickle us behind our ears, but it is God's revelation of Himself. As he told Moses in Exodus 3: "I AM THAT I AM". Accept Him, or reject Him.

[@ConcealedCourier]

I just want to note for the record Freddy did NOT state John 3:16 or Acts 11:17 when defining christianity. Nor Matthew 25.. but everyone knows true christians wouldn't cite Matthew 25.. half of true christianity would be up shits creek without a paddle if that verse was "true."