You won't believe how strong micro stoppers are! Climbing nuts tested in real rock

[@HowNOT2]

Check out our new store! hownot2.store/

[@unknown-ql1fk]

Diy, the filiment is commonly used as an oil resivor to release oil for the wires rubbing each other and prevent rust

[@TheSilverFiend]

I am profoundly sad to discover that there is not a brand of climbing nuts called DEEZ. Such a missed opportunity

[@markpell8979]

Fiend, if you use nuts from DMM you can say 'dem nuts' instead of 'deez nuts.'

[@petewhittington9399]

In the slow mo (@3:55 ish) you can see 13.8 KN, so your guess of 13 to 15 is spot on. Have you done this sort of thing before? 😊

[@Johnny_Cash_Flow]

Good catch.

[@Blizzardmane]

Not a climber but ive been binging your channel for a while now. Im a physics technician and the scientific method you guys apply is wonderful to see. Note, id trust those nuts with me life. They be stronk!

[@MAV3NX]

One of the things I love about this channel is the fact that you feel a bit more comfortable with what a good placement will and won't support. Keep up the kicka$$ work!

[@ineedanap799]

The reason there is filament inside of the steel cable is because the play lets the cable bend / flex and evenly dispersed the weight across the the making it much more reliable and less likely to get cut on rock, Metal cord cables are normally only used for lateral force and static tension

[@isaacmuller-wild9599]

Hi! I did some basic math to work out the force on that redirect using your estimates for the force and angle: assuming an angle of 95 degrees, the force would’ve been between 17.6kN and 20.3kN, assuming an angle of 120 degrees it would’ve been between 13kN and 15kN. Both of these would’ve been acting straight out, at half of the angle between the two ropes. Keep in mind though that this assumes a perfect, static situation (no movement) and I often suck at getting correct answers

[@padraig0]

My understanding (I can't verify this, it's just what I have been told) is that the filament in the steel braid is a way for the manufacturer to track production. Different filament colors indicate different times (years?) of production.

[@miles11we]

I know a lot of larger steel cables will have a soft core and apparently the core being able to be squeezed improves elongation properties, reduces wear/premature failure due to inner stands rubbing against eachother while being squeezed by the outer strands and probably some other important stuff.

[@blindmixer88]

this is how manufacturers track ropes as well

[@derekatwood6236]

It's there to retain shape of the wire and prevent kinks?

[@Hrbrgggr]

I think they do this with ropes too and thought about the same here.

[@RippDrive]

Since the wires seem to be what is breaking most of the time I'd be curious how choice of racking biner might effect breaking strength. A round stock HMS should work to see if it's an idea worth looking into.

[@justindunlap1235]

Ryan just had to shake his nuts on camera. Thanks for another great video.

[@zachary8989]

Cool to see. Would’ve been nice to check the smaller (BD 1-3) sizes that have very low MBS

[@nicksenske662]

Your redirect could experience as much as double the force on one strand. The line has a tension which you are measuring with the dyno, and the redirect gets pulled twice, once from each end of the line going through it.

[@RTmadnesstoo]

That's what I remember from Statics class years ago. I might have to drag my books out to refresh.

[@mattjones2303]

3:16 my guess is that filliment is a saftey feature to show the wire has exceeded its maximum rated load and should be considered damage. It's a clear visual and physical indicator and only appeared after the wire was stressed to snapping

[@michaelolague2806]

All your vids are good, and I watch them all, BUT THIS is the kind of vid I like to watch!!! Super interesting and super entertaining

[@jaredweaver5131]

I’d like to see micro nuts on the drop tower. It would be sweet to see what they break in a realistic dynamic load

[@inkwhir]

Please make a video on the Edelrid Ohm! Such a useful but sketchy piece of gear

[@BenjaminLovelady]

Stoked for that interview!

[@Dazdigo]

A redirect is essentially a pulley on the fixed mount point. It is all basic static vectors so it is quite easy to calculate the forces if you know the angles and one of the force on the cable or mount point.

[@jskemp4]

The wild country Rock nuts are OLD, based on the manufacture markings and MEC price tags they are around 40 years old. They still have original tags as you can see when Ryan is holding the big bundle.

[@jumpmaniaccrazy]

I am curious if you put two carabiners in the wire to increase the bend radius if the results would change. I have done that when belaying sometimes to get more friction when belaying a larger climber than myself. Awesome as always!

[@marcwire9332]

I thought about a wire rope ferral I think it is called to increase the radius but your suggestion trumps my idea, if two carabiners get better results then move to the ferral (eye)

[@PeregrineBF]

@@marcwire9332 It's a ferrule. Good try on the spelling since you'd never seen it written!

[@timestampsometimes]

@@PeregrineBF most polite way to correct someone’s spelling i’ve ever seen on the internet. props

[@aussiviking604]

Or you could retro fit a wire rope thimble.

[@grandolph9281]

Loved the close up Money Shots of that granite!

[@calebdeming5515]

I don't know if you guys realize this but the future is going to be in incredibly strong fabrics made by companies that initially do stuff like this and I can't wait

[@g02n2]

Super interesting - given that the nuts broke at the cable I've just decided to replace all mine, I'd assumed that because the nuts looked good .... but it's the cables I need to pay more attention to. !! Thanks again HNTH for breaking stuff, so I don't break me. HNTH = good enough to whip.

[@Kackspack0815]

Wild fire in the background-badass! 😄

[@kilianhzh]

the colored strand in the middle also helps distinguishing different batches

[@wildfyr89]

I’d love to know what the really little brass can handle. I have two that are kind of emergency use when nothing else will fit and they are pretty borderline about whether they are aid pieces or actual protection. Dmm brass 1, 2 and 3

[@RTmadnesstoo]

Steel cables that run over pulleys create friction and wear as they bend. The fiber core lubricates as it moves and in heavy load situations like cranes will be impregnated with graphite or grease. Static uses like support cables have no need of that extra expense.

[@stevewillson9218]

It would be great to see the the wild country single wire super lights tested. My friend broke one on a fall but it may have sheered on the rock.

[@jf7393]

A redirect is always subjected to some multiplication of forces from the lines coming in and out of it. People often think in terms of static redirects or moving pieces but all the same rules apply even if it's not a "moving" pulley in your MA system. The pulley doesn't know that. Everyone understands this on paper but it sometimes can get overlooked and it can be important in terms of resultant direction and pull force as we can see here where an otherwise bomber bolt is put in tension and pops. Always fascinating!

[@davidsimpson3885]

would be interesting to see how pro would hold up in different Rock types.

[@ReedWolfewawrzynek]

This made me think, Could you test different diameter carabiners on the wires used in nuts? often the failure was at the carabiner so I wonder how much the bend shape matters.

[@johnschewe6358]

Hard to tell in the video since it is only 2 frames long, but when the redirect snaps it looks like the quick link backs off for a frame (1/30 sec) then snaps. This means you're not just working with flat force, but impulse. If we assume a constant force on the pulley throughout the snap, and the quick link backs off a 1/4in, then the shock force could easily be 3 to 10 times more than the constant force depending on the deformation of the bolt. That's on top of the fact that a pulley takes more than the load since it has two strands of rope leaving it.

[@aakashdeepmundi7226]

That nylon filament could be for lubricating the steel wires in the cable when it flexes! The plastic core is an essential part of steel cables used in big industrical projects like bridges and towers. There, it also serves as something to wrap the wires around but the plastic mostly acts as a lubricant for when the cables bend and flex. If you think about how the steel wires in the cable rub against each other when bending, the ones on the "inside" of the bend go one way/contract, and the ones on the "outside" go the other way/stetch. This creates a *lot* of abrasion (especially at sharp bends), accelerating metal fatigue and exposeing metal to corrosion. The plastic core on the other hand just gets rubbed off and the polymer molecules act as lubricant. That is my best guess for their purpose in this case haha!

[@Kitsune-Moriko]

I have the wild country rocks. My friend was learning to lead and he took a wip on a number 3. Was a 6 meter fall. He was 3m above the 3 rock placing another runner and slipped off.

[@howler6490]

Most wire ropes have a fibre centre core.It is to ensure even lubrication when used in an oiled set-up.

[@Sarge92]

my guess is the filliment core helps limit friction in the core allowing the wires to move and slice better when under strain to distribute the stress through the cable?

[@wibblywobblyidiotvision]

Wire ropes with textile cores are not at all uncommon, although I've never seen anything that small with a textile core. As mentioned, manufacturers often use colour to indicate manufacture year.

[@haphaeu]

For an angle of 90 deg, the force on the redirect is 40% higher than what the dyno reads. Since it looks a little higher than 90 deg, a +50% should be close enough.

[@beauthetford7608]

I'm thinking that the greater the angle, the less force the redirect sees. I understand your 40% higher force for 90 degrees, because the two components parallel to the bolt add up to equal sqrt(2) = 1.41 times the force the linescale sees, so 41% higher. But as that angle approaches 180, those components go to zero, so the force on the bolt decreases with a more obtuse angle. At 0 degrees, it would just see 2x the force on the linescale, for instance.

[@haphaeu]

@@beauthetford7608 You're totally right! So for that angle a bit above 90 deg, it should be less than 40% increase...

[@beauthetford7608]

Exactly. If f0 is the force on the dynamometer, you can describe the force on the redirect F as a function of the angle between the rope legs theta by F(theta) = 2*f0* cos(theta/2).

[@peterlanza5094]

The fiber core is standard on AC (aircraft cable) it is used to hold lubricant to increase the life of the cable and allow the strands to shift around slightly as it runs over and through pulleys and winding drums while under load. Wire Rope does not have a fiber core and is not intended or rated to bend as severely or run through pulleys or redirects. AC cable and wire rope are two different types of metal cordage.

[@jonflannery8984]

How do you know the peak force was not when the backup caught the dyno? I assume you have a video feed and it might have something to do with the frequency of data measurement…just a curiosity I figured you guys or someone out there could answer. Sweet content. Thanks for sharing.

[@TheSilverFiend]

Unless this vid is out of sequence, youve already done a test of obtuse anchoring angles. You are getting a lot higher forces on that redirect anchor than on the test nuts or the MA tensioner

[@hardrocklobsterroll395]

I know this is late but the brass but likely held more because it deformed around the wire rope more. If you look where each failed, the brass one failed at the pull side whereas the aluminum nut broke at the nut side. The stress concentration at the corner of the aluminum nut was the point of failure. This has implications for what brass nuts should be bought but also for the design of nuts in general imo

[@stephenbeyer4315]

It would be interesting to do the same test in a soft rock such as sandstone, to see if the cable still fails first, or if the nut will pull out of the rock?

[@williesnyder2899]

Synthetic fiber core… It keeps the cable formed round, and may help lubricate the wires as they run one against the other.

[@smeghead666]

I reckon the brass being softer played a part in the piece being stronger, the wire is probably a harder metal so it could dig into the nut rather than getting kinked over the sharp edge of the harder nut metal

[@cw7469]

I'm pretty sure the WC nut breaks at a lower-than-rated force because you're pulling it around an edge of rock. The wire breaks where it is pulled over that edge. Interesting both in terms of thinking about gear placements and in terms of thinking about all the variables in establishing a reliable experiment. Given that the wire is what breaks (and given your title), you'd have done well to test micros that use thinner wire. The wire on the no.5 is, I think, the same gauge as many conventional alu stoppers.

[@andreagavazzi8276]

What about nuts with dynema slings? I’m curious to see if they are stronger than traditional ones.

[@NDKY67]

I reckon the fuzz in the wire is to indicate the batch, so it can be dated to when it was made.

[@vega1287]

thinking of it the redirect can see at weost 2x thr force the dyno displays

[@JoshEaton]

I was wondering if the thread was a tension indicator, IE it gets fuzzy when it has been overloaded but not broken. I was also thinking a thimble on the wire rope where it meets the carabiner would reduce the stress concentrations.

[@tim_sch]

As fas as I know, the string in the middle is probably for the manufacturer as guide in the first line. The second thing I know is that if you can see the line in the middle your wirecable is cheewed up and is not usable at full load anymore.

[@thomasthurman9963]

thanks Ryan

[@schwiftyoliver77]

Great vid Ryan!

[@mysteria_1305]

for the sounds, if you wanted, wireless mics should work. tape them up on the rock.

[@buckmanriver]

Busting nuts one at a time. Great job with the sound! Keep using the mic.

[@teddyruxpin3811]

8:19 "...were working on this new clean climbing design of deez nutz"

[@shepvail3834]

I like your videos they’re interesting and I like learning more on climbing gear

[@42ford42prefect]

You should collab with The Slow Mo Guys or Smarter Every Day. Would be fascinating to see this stuff break at a 100k+ fps

[@Intermernet]

Slo Mo Guys fo sho ;-) Basically anyone with a Phantom hi-speed camera. I'd also love to see hi-speed thermal imaging of the gear when it breaks. I reckon that stuff get's *really* hot!

[@douglochery8641]

SmG or even Destin from Smarter Every Day have a history of collabs with interesting discussion points or aesthetics. Break stuff pretty to get the SMG's interested. Breat stuff geekily to get Destin excited.

[@chrismarshall4486]

I’m glad you finally admit that you have micro nuts. We’ve got to get this info out there so people don’t think they’re alone in this 😂😂😂

[@asgerbahnsennielsen711]

Have you considered doing a dynamic vs static rope test in the drop tower? It would be interesting to see the differens (and the difference in relation to rope length. Is the relationship linear?) :-)

[@bmrcmembers1134]

Drop tests on static ropes have been done a lot in the rope rescue world, and the results are often quite interesting. Absolutely nothing having to do with rope stretch is linear.

[@asgerbahnsennielsen711]

@@bmrcmembers1134 thought so. Do you know if and where its possible to see the test results? And a comparrison with dynamic rope?

[@juliansteinberger4223]

i would love to see tests on limestone

[@chipper442]

How funny, I actually thought to myself, when you were showing the setup, “I wonder if the redirect ever fails?”

[@jeryuen6563]

Maybe the fabric cord is also for friction as the cable flexes

[@xawerytrabka8813]

yellow wire in the middle of metal wire is a sign for manufacturer "date/month" production.

[@joehopfield]

I bet the filament is meant to melt and dissipate heat (and lube the wires) under max load.

[@benjaminnevins5211]

Wow those are some huge breaks.

[@Tzar147]

I Know that some companies can use coloured strands in rope as a marker for year of manufacture, maybe similar for the wires?

[@bobhenderson7961]

Why did the wire fail at the carabiner, does the make of the carabiner - different radius change the results

[@fire_n_ice1984]

Thats it!? Pretty short video for all those nuts you showed us in the beginning. More! More! More!

[@joshcourt6744]

Any chance of getting some nuts in a softer rock? (Eg limestone/sandstone)

[@michielvangulik6698]

I have taken a 30 foot whipper onto a number 1 micro wedge, it held but when I came to take it out it had compression fractured the rock on either side and the placement fell apart when I took it out 😢

[@milhollandandrew]

I’d love to see you guys drop a 200lb haul bag from various fall heights, maybe 2-10ft above gear.

[@eliasschwarz2003]

Hey very nice videos, An idear for you, break BD or Wild country friends/ Cams in an passiv placement. Like an nut or so.

[@DocPO57702]

I would like to see whoopie sling break tests

[@daviddroescher]

Is the fuzzy is a tail tell showing permanent distortion aka the yield point has been passed but it didn't fail all the way ,it is deadline.?

[@nickadams2361]

If I ever taught first year physics I would show so many of these videos to demonstrate newtons laws

[@DarthZackTheFirstI]

love their faith into things they just stuck into those 2 rock lips

[@jakubmarek1419]

This video is nuts

[@resmarted]

I will never go rock climbing, hate heights, but this was interesting anyway.

[@rossgoldie]

You should absolutely test copperheads

[@leavventuredelchechin4199]

interesting results !

[@QbutNotTheQ]

Great info

[@jontattersall1837]

God Bless Doug Robinson ... 🌠😎

[@AaronAlso]

I am curious if it is viable for a person to make their own nuts at home with amsteel, brass stock, and a basic tools? cutting the brass into these basic shapes is not difficult. drilling some holes for the amsteel shouldn't be a problem. however splicing the amsteel to the nut might be tricky for some people. You know what; If I make them will you test them?

[@stefanconstmano3]

I love this

[@pauldls9972]

Can you test the resistance of dynema when you write on it with a marker ?

[@flyingdutchman1352]

Oh my nuts!

[@sirdeakia]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH oh god thank you KZbin for recommending the video that has SEARED into my mind that I'll never truly leave 5th grade.

[@shedonfire]

Please test trango big bros in rock

[@Salmontemaki]

I thought the last one would brake where it was bending

[@Hotzenplotz0701]

Do the wire break with the slo-mo guys :))

[@nowaaaay7130]

That's what she said

[@hjeffcoat42]

Just commenting cause I want this channel to get big. I'm just dreaming but come to the choss pile that is Frenchman Coulee and set up a line!

[@succulentstomper8882]

Freedom of the Hills states it is safe to since a nut around a bolt that doesn't have a hanger. Can you try to test this?

[@joshcourt6744]

"safe" means very little but I would guess you'd get a failure mode of the wire breaking at around 6-12 kN depending on the wire and thickness. What is be more worried about is the wire slipping off.

[@RTmadnesstoo]

@@joshcourt6744 That was SOP in early Direct Aid climbing in situations like bolt ladders. When you are moving from one to the next you can hold them in place. In those ancient times gear was hard to come by (or hadn't been invented yet) and Expensive so just a bolt had to make do. I wonder which edition of FotH that came from.

[@GeeRad]

This is still done a fair bit in Australia on free climbs with "Carrot Bolts". The main issue seems to be getting the nut to stay on the bolt. The breaking strain should be fairly similar to the rated strength because the radius of the bolt is similar to a carabiner.

[@marcushofmann1246]

Can you please break some more stuff using a redirect but with a dyno on the redirect… Would be super interesting!

[@johnschewe6358]

Just be careful and use a dyno you don't mind getting smacked around.

[@ShurikB93]

The redirect sees less force the bigger the angle is. 0 degree gives us 200% 120 degree, 100% 180° is 0% since it doesn't carry any weight

[@shoqed]

yep must be some weird torque on hanger that decapitated the bolt

[@jamesfoureight9879]

The Big Island huh?

[@TheThumbsUpChannel]

i wanna see #1-3s tested

[@drewe51]

How did you get that footage for the intro where it looks like you're jumping off a cliff?

[@chunkmuncher1715]

He actually jumped off a cliff. He has some videos on rope jumping (I think that's what it's called) if you dive deep enough into his channel. Basically a giant rope swing.