YOU WON'T BELIEVE SOME OF THE THINGS HE SAYS! Artie Shaw (PART ONE)

[@samking4179]

it's soooo great to hear people tell you how they really feel about things. people rarely do but when you find something like this from the likes of Artie Shaw, it's incredible. thanks for posting this!!!

[@jubalcalif9100]

As I do when I take off my hat, you make a good point. Though Artie is very judgmental about others. He just can't understand someone else's point of view. If someone else in music enjoys playing their hits over & over, that's their business & good for them. Artie can't seem to understand the idea of "live and let live" & letting others live their own life as they see it.

[@andrewgravish6427]

I was fortunate to play in Artie's band after getting off Buddy Rich's band when he reformed it under the great Dick Johnson in 1984. Artie was there for certain gigs then and spent his time with all the cats in the band. He loved the musicians and we heard all of these reminiscences first hand. It was an honor to be in that company. An experience that lifts me to this day.

[@jz5005]

Wow. Did you ever run into a guy from my hometown of Winnipeg, Ron Paley? I believe he played in Rich’s band for a while.

[@andrewgravish6427]

@jz5005 Unfortunately no. He may have been before me on Buddy's band. I was there in '83.

[@fleebie]

⁠@@jz5005I worked with Ron Paley up in the Peg a couple of times. I think he was in Woody’s band very briefly, or maybe Maynard’s band

[@MrKlemps]

Verdi never "quit". Artie is wrong about that. He composed right up until the time of his death. Othello is arguably his greatest work.

[@bobk1845]

I’m interested to hear he LIKED anything. Just about every comment is what he despises; other musicians (who don’t seem to have despised him in public), every kind of music, anyone who asks about HIS music. It’s all old, don’t dwell on the past….then HE brings it up! He both wants to forgotten, anonymous, and revered. He seems to have had a very sad upbringing and wound up terribly bitter. Estranged from a bunch of wives and his children. He delights in calling Benny Goodman names. Goodman didn’t do it to him as far as I know. Goodman married once, two daughters he loved. Who had a successful run?

[@emmanuelsaridakispiano]

It's one of the best and "toughest" interviews I've ever heard about the music business. It tells a lot about what was going behind the scenes back then, which still happens. Thanks for posting this!

[@Twentythousandlps]

Thanks for this. As a person Shaw always comes off as hyper, intense, exhausting. I remember when he died twenty years ago, there was little recognition from mass media - he had outlived his audience, unlike BG.

[@garryberman894]

He seemed to have nothing but contempt for his audience, so why should they stay with him?

[@robb7398]

@@garryberman894 Because he was the best.

[@jubalcalif9100]

Well said and well put. A little of Artie went a long way. So intense! Comes on too strong! So judgmental of others. if other band leaders or singers want to sing their own hits over and over, what the hell business is it of his? If it makes them happy, then good for them.

[@robb7398]

@jubalcalif9100 And yet I found myself agreeing with most of his opinions. At least he was honest.

[@jubalcalif9100]

@@robb7398 As I do when I take off my hat, you make a good point. He was indeed at least honest & he "called 'em like he saw 'em".

[@RalphOnofrio]

Artie from New Haven Ct...My home town.After 60+ years as a drummer,I understand 100% how he felt.I won't leave the house for a $50 gig and invest 7 or 8 hours driving and setting up and breaking down my drums, unless I'm really going to enjoy the gig....In 2025 the lack of respect for musicians is worse than ever.The managers and record labels only care about how much money you make for them.This happened to the Beatles,and many others.God bless Artie Shaw.

[@mootbooxle]

I’ve been a professional musician all my life and this has been absolutely incredible to listen to.

[@michaeldeloatch7461]

This man had no guile. You can hear it in his words, you can hear it in his playing. We need more Artie Shaws.

[@immaterialimmaterial5195]

Oh wow - this is so interesting and refreshing to hear! Artie is so completely open and honest and real. LOVE HIS MUSIC!!!

[@loualbano4520]

Insightful & refreshingly honest. Being a youngster, 69 Y.O, I feel a bit nostalgic listening to this because this was my parents era. Big band, Swing. Remembering when my Mom would sing in the kitchen along to the “make believe ball room radio show”. She turned down a regular gig in the city to raise her three boys while Dad worked 2 jobs to bring home the bacon. Mom complained about spending $30 for a week of groceries to feed the 5 of us. Ah, the good old days!

[@chriscampbell9191]

My dad was a WW2 USAAF vet (B29 gunnery teacher). He loved swing music, but when I was a kid he'd left it behind for other forms of music he liked. I was vaguely aware of some of his favorites from that era -- Harry James, Glenn Miller in particular. But Dad never really shared his enthusiasm for swing music with me. i think he just left that era behind, as he was open to new music (Elvis, Tom Jones, etc.). Although I'm a musician, I never got into swing until -- on a lark -- I saw Artie Shaw's Greatest Hits on CD where I worked in the radio industry. After giving the CD a spin, I was amazed. There was so much drive, and so much melody to the music. From tracks like 'Nightmare' to thumping rockers like 'Traffic Jam'. Instantly, I could see the appeal of swing music, and how great it was. I bought the Artie Shaw Hits' CD and played it a lot. Unfortunately, it was years after Dad passed, so I was never able to share the enthusiasm of the music with him. Naturally, i didn't know all that much about Artie Shaw, but as I bought more CDs of his music I began to understand just what the swing era gave American music, and even to a non-woodwind player like myself, his musicality was exceptional. I've heard he was a bit cantankerous, personally. Listening to this interview, he sounds about as real as it gets. When he says 'I'm still here -- they're all dead', it's pretty poignant, really. He definitely lived a full life, and American music is all that much richer for it.

[@jeffhildreth9244]

Brilliant ! Artie was the best. Thanks.

[@tftkadawidalle-hp8wt]

Artie’s sound on clarinet is tops.Barney Bigard too. Shaw is an expression of what a real person should be: one of integrity, originally, unique. Love this ! Thank you for posting this essential, insightful and inspiring interview. Plus he’s hilarious.

[@bobtaylor170]

@@tftkadawidalle-hp8wt it's very funny when he refers to Goodman's stupid look.

[@rexallen9970]

BarneyBigard was one of the great unheralded clarinetists whose tone, surpassed both Shaw and BG, in my opinion. I met and visited with him at the late 1970s Sacramento Dixieland jubilee. Very nice, warm and approachable.

[@tftkadawidalle-hp8wt]

@ I agree with your assessment. Still, Shaw’s honesty, humor, and idiosyncratic attitude makes for intriguing insights.

[@tftkadawidalle-hp8wt]

@ haha, yeah

[@syourke3]

Very honest, insightful interview. Straight from the shoulder.

[@farquell5782]

I keep freaking out seeing my 1st band director, who have me my first steps on the trombone sitting behind Shaw in the band. I knew Shaw was a brilliant man. More than just a musician. It's very interesting to hear him speak.

[@simeonmaximofernandez9945]

I admire his artistry and direction in music. Frank and honest.

[@Hartlor_Tayley]

Amazing interview thank you. Artie was brilliant.

[@gblowers]

Excellent hard hitting interview with frank answers. For a change we get a real insight into the jazz musical culture that Shaw inhabited and contributed too. Thank you for posting this.

[@clearbrain]

This is the first interview that is good for human beings as a SPECIES...not as brainwashed musicians....99 percent of jazz interview are full of exhilaration and monotonous talks that's stupid to hear ..this is the first time we have someone speak that clapping in -between a track and just before the start of solo(transition )is destructive and detrimental to the music...it's brainwashing of the listener that's going on for centuries... I always wondered why no musician spoke about it ... This interview is real shit❤

[@critical_analysis]

Worst human he was... Character is more important than all that useless stuff... He treated women badly and abandoned his kids. That kind of person is not fit to be a human,

[@clearbrain]

@critical_analysis if this is true, surely you are right..... behaviour is first priority..

[@thomasosborne8579]

This is a brilliant interview of a brilliant musician! Thanks for posting.

[@alanosterman7130]

Thank you so much. Sorry it came to an end. Artie was one of the highlights for me, of that Ken Burns "JAZZ" series. Boils down to craft vs. spontaneous art I guess. Post war, Be bop became the cutting edge, and small combos too. But, the so fickle public needs to hear those "feel good" songs over and over. Kinda therapeutic for them. Those Kansas City "cutting sessions" would be the ultimate for an individual player. To push yourself further and grow, and surprise yourself too.

[@eleanormartinez8274]

Thanks so much for posting this! I've heard many interviews with Mr. Shaw in his later years (the 13-part series, "The Mystery of Artie Shaw" is even more in-depth), so I'm used to his intense energy (which, considering his age, is pretty amazing). He was a life-long learner, and everything interested him. I don't know if you have any more interviews with Mr. Shaw, but, if you do, I would love to be able to hear them. Thanks again!

[@onetrackjazz]

Believe or not, there is a part 2 which I will be posting very soon.

[@eleanormartinez8274]

@@onetrackjazz do tell! I'm looking forward to that!

[@daveking-sandbox9263]

In the 60s I loved Artie's music, but I didn't really know why. Now when I hear this interview, after playing myself for over 50 years, the way he talks about music is exactly the way I feel about it at age 71! If Artie was alive today, I would go on the stage with him immediately! His head was really in the right place! Screw commercial music! Besides kids can make commercial music 24/7 on their computers today.

[@johnspelic9861]

This is fantastic. Artie calls spades spades, but more importantly he underlines the difference between real musicians and entertainers who just play the same garbage for an audience over and over. Ultimate respect to Artie. Amazing player, musician, and entirely underrated publicly, but the real cats know his work.

[@markscountlessbarks]

GOLD!

[@texchnsawdrum]

Excellent look behind the Shaw curtain.

[@jamesconnors5653]

A performance artist offers an unselfish gift with each performance.

[@vaughnnark1733]

Fantastic interview 👏 pure honesty 👏 most respectfully..Vaughn 🎺

[@kevinsplinter8595]

Cool. Thanks for sharing.

[@brianpite0893]

He was an absolute genius, with a dark side. Thanks for posting. Really excellent

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

You determined from this interview he had a dark side?

[@pgroove163]

yes great artist.

[@brianpite0893]

@@rudolphguarnacci197 not from this interview.

[@daveking-sandbox9263]

dark side? He is a normal, honest musician, I've been a musician for 52 years I know a lot of musicians like Artie. True, if you are a 20-year-old today then Artie wouldn't seem politically correct enough for you, but that's your problem! This is REAL history no sugar-coated BS. What I can recommend for young people today is, if they ever build a Time Machine, don't go more than 10 years into the past, otherwise you will certainly freak out!

[@rudolphguarnacci197]

@daveking-sandbox9263 I think a lot of people parrot phrases to sound hip.

[@jaylarson3182]

Glad I have listened to this, 67 now and can't get a bite on a note. Just got my Tenor Sax working all the way to the bottom played like a dream 😅 Then I got My teeth pulled, ooops.

[@gordonely3591]

Herman Hesse wrote a book called Steppenwolf in which a character called Sebastian explains why artists pander to audiences . It is about joy and responsibility , quite profound I believe .

[@clearbrain]

Priceless interview ❤❤❤❤

[@rogerhare7886]

Shaw and Claude Thornhill mingled with Musicians at Honolulu Navy R&R before his “Hot zone” tour. Here they helped develop the “Navy Style” of big band dance music. At the time, Shaw was living out of the Royal Hawaiian Hotel with Jerome Kern’s Daughter, Elizabeth.

[@jayumble8390]

This is fantastic!!! Wow, I loved this!!

[@patriceodom2553]

Incredible

[@jamescox8402]

My dad's favourite musician.

[@deanchovan6604]

My favorite clarinet player. unmatched.

[@FlintFandango]

Great interview - thanks for getting it out there!

[@jamesconnors5653]

A performance artist offers an unselfish gift with each performance.

[@mrtriffid]

This guy is awesome! Any real artist knows being creative is almost ALL hard work with a few moments of satisfaction.

[@bobtaylor170]

Poor Artie. I love the guy's work. If you do, too, I recommend "Lost Chords," by Richard Sudhalter, which I would recommend anyway to anybody who loves jazz and its history.

[@rexallen9970]

Dick’s book is a standout, and a refreshing antidote to the “only blacks can play jazz” mentality.

[@bobtaylor170]

@rexallen9970 if political correctness hadn't been running things by then - and I think the book would never have been published even five years later - he would have won a Pulitzer Prize for history, and every other award such a great book should have won.

[@rexallen9970]

@@bobtaylor170 Well, at least we have Wynton to tell us how it really is…😤

[@bobtaylor170]

@rexallen9970 😁

[@bobtaylor170]

@@rexallen9970 Rex, I recommend the KZbin channel of Andy Edwards. He has two or three long videos which take issue with the silly idea that only blacks created jazz.

[@MrTang-qo9wm]

A genius, he could never stomach boredom, not even for good money. Self-defeating. As he says, "some people don't have the problems."

[@nomadpi1]

He had his clarinet made into a lamp. He ruminated. He wasn't bored with his life as a success and wasn't more bored with his piddling around. He enjoyed the "prima donna" (quits at a $ amount yet mewls his "great artist" -"can't get no satisfaction" existence) and seekers to his spiels. He was an artist to his generation yet outlived his public's appreciation and the music made by himself and peers. His criticism of BG, et al, because they tried to keep their music known to the public (and make a living at it) was fatuous. I consider him a great musician, but no more great than his contemporaries of SWING.

[@gordonely3591]

​@nomadpi1 I think he had a mental "dis -- ease" . Maybe a habit of over -- discerning❓️ ✌️

[@surfrecords999]

Im happy this recording was saved. Thank you. His Tony Bennett reaction is relatable

[@matthewsnyder6127]

But Artie couldn’t understand that for Tony, singing a song he loved and pleasing an audience with it was its own form of artistry and fulfillment.

[@Esther3PM]

Wow, I'm honestly blown away by the energy and content of this interview! Thanks a lot for sharing such treasures!

[@peztopher7297]

My dad was a kid when Shaw was popular, but somehow he liked his parents' music and then played it when my brother and I were growing up. Our grandparents were astounded when we begged them to play their swing records when visiting them in the late 60s. My brother named his first cat Lionel after Hampton the vibraphonist. 😺

[@gordonely3591]

What a beautiful story . Thanks for sharing ‼️

[@asimnicholsmusic]

This is so dope! Like sitting around just being real. We don’t often hear that today, especially from “artists”.

[@beagleman123456789]

He was Great 👍

[@lynnlobliner3933]

I've read his novels and maybe his autobio. He said he was only in music because he could do it and would quit, but went back because he needed the money. However, here, and in #2, he states that he loved creating the music but "they" wouldn't let him, so he'd quit. Several times. But BOY could he do it.

[@RodneyGuitarsplat]

Fantastic Interview. Thank You for posting.

[@fosbury68]

Fascinating. But what I’m left with is the distinct impression that Artie Shaw never had an ounce of empathy for any human being he felt was less intelligent than himself. In other words, anyone not named Artie Shaw.

[@jamesfaulkner-b7j]

Just telling it like he sees it.

[@milourose2973]

My father was a professional music arranger and towards the end of his life he said that he would have been better to have been an amateur musician. He grew to hate the kind of music he had to arrange.

[@paulrodberg]

wonderful honest intelligent

[@yvesfrancoisritmo]

What an incredible person, I'm so impressed by what he saying. He knew the quality of Lennie Hayton, and understood why Woody Herman stayed in the music business. I love what he said about my favourite musician Hot Lips Page, he was an unbelievable person as well as musician. That band with Lips was the best of Shaw's band for my money, with Lips Page and drummer Davey Tough - they were sparkplugs to that band. He's right, if we were still be here in 200 years. Finally I find that concept of the difference between him and Goodman is Goodman saw himself as a clarinet player, Shaw saw himself as a musician who used the clarinet as his tool to express himself. It may sound like a small point but it's a huge difference.

[@MikeJamesMedia]

Excellent. I wish I had heard this in 1986. (or sooner) Thanks for posting this... both parts! :)

[@richardmayfair-mattingly7633]

Great content

[@albiondi4078]

One of the most complex super talented men ever.

[@throckmorton3705]

artie shaw treated ava gardner like ava gardner treated frank sinatra

[@NoOne-kr4jc]

And Frank had unpredictable and frightening mood swings LOL

[@pjriverdale8461]

Everybody who has ever had to perform music publicly and commercially understands what Shaw is saying. It can be a terrible thing to be trapped by success at any level and have to fight to grow artistically. The audience has no clue what musicians have to deal with emotionally with respect to the music itself. It is only when you can break free and play for yourself that one can truly enjoy the actual mechanics of playing music. The true reward is achieved only by a few who can play with freedom and bring their audience along on the journey.

[@HelloooThere]

He answers everything like the guy was bothering him by asking these questions.

[@martian-sunset]

My piano teacher was a good friend of Artie's and would speak about him often. This interview confirms that he was an uncompromising, highly opinionated, cynical, arrogant guy.

[@marcbahn5487]

Man, I'd hate to go on a cross-country road trip with this fellow. 'Here Art, take some of these instead.'

[@cheri238]

My kind of guy, Artie Shaw!!! Lol 😊 He was a great mathematician! He had excellent creative critical analysis 👏 👌 "Sinatra became a lunatic" There have always been problems in the music business and Hollywood. Personal problems. That's show business folks. He forgot to mention Louie Armstrong. So what if he played a horn?😊

[@7karlheinz]

I worked for a guy played saxophone who lived thru Shaw’s era. Musically, he was very commercial and musically square. I remember him stating how “weird” Artie Shaw was because he wasn’t totally commercial.

[@markhenderson4001]

thank you

[@danieljrossofficialmusic]

Such a great insight Illuminating for his era and those after There is also part 2 interview as well check it

[@AtOddsAlways]

Never were truer words spoken when he answered the question about palling with his band: "A general doesn't fraternize with the troops." Sadly, to be an effective and respected boss, you must draw a line and mustn't cross it. This applies in just about any job but with unique exceptions.

[@marcyfan-tz4wj]

❤

[@rjwoodscvi]

Miles expressed this ages ago and then pioneered the fusion genre .

[@EugeneONeill-pf5bj]

Wow. What a recording.

[@geob3963]

Music, sublime. Music business, slimy grimy crime.

[@seanohare5488]

Well said

[@marshalmcdonald7476]

He says at 4:48 that an artist/musician is cursed with the temperament. What a load of crap. He just seems cynical, controlling and bitter. I love his music but he seems self-righteous. Ick.

[@seanohare5488]

Agree

[@pinverarity]

The sheer tonnage of self-deifying claptrap propounded by ‘artists’ about what they do and why is stunning.

[@marshalmcdonald7476]

@@pinverarity Pow. Right on the money. Yeah throughout my career there were a few of these types of players. They seemed to always have a need to export their own choleric dysthymia onto the world.

[@jasonnstegall]

I have often wondered if Artie wasn’t the actual inspiration for the clarinet-playing character who is accused of murder and suffers a nervous breakdown in the last of the Thin Man movies, “Song Of…” (1947). Because from the sound of it, Artie seems to indicate that he was headed in that direction and got out of the business before it drove him really nuts (good for him, BTW).

[@johnryan3913]

@@jasonnstegall Interesting. Will have to watch that final TM movie again! Thanks!

[@DariusJones]

Miles Davis and Andre 3000 said the exact thing.

[@msjazzmeblues]

Artie once went into seclusion to write a book about Bix Beiderbecke, but he was unable to do so. Artie heard Bix Beiderbecke play live in the period Bix was in the Jean Goldkette Orchestra and was overcome by one of his solos. But Bix was the really the opposite of Shaw, loving the sheer process of playing with others, always thinking he should do better and driven to try! He seemed never to be bored or disappointed with music so long as he was involved with playing it. No wonder Shaw 's biography of Bix couldn't be written. Shaw could not get an insight into Bix. They both had genius, but were opposite in personality and in their Zietgeist.

[@bazojc8677]

Awesome soul, unlike the rest of the monotony crowd.

[@loveaodai100]

Awesome!

[@albiondi4078]

Artie's 1949-50 band was the best band he had i agree

[@Chifan71]

Shaw appeared frequently on Carson's Tonight Show.

[@craigbfolksinger]

This was great I saw his apartment when I lived in New nork

[@tonymason7197]

As a kid in the 60s 70s Artie was on all the talk shows - as I remember a lot was about how many times he got married 😂

[@seanohare5488]

Shaw had great taste in women Ava Gardner Lana Turner Evelyn keys

[@hankreus7196]

Egotistical. Opinionated. Outspoken. Difficult!!!!! Putting me in touch with the more “human” aspects contrasting little virtue in my own skin. Strong personality leads. Others follow or they don’t. Period. It takes vision. Others may contribute and boy when they do my goodness. The Beatles, The Allman Brothers, Little Feat, The Band, Pink Floyd……amazing pristine human accomplishments radiate and resonate. There is a guiding person driving the effort. Consider Joni Mitchell, John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, all the ground breaking individuals 🎉

[@MarkInLA]

To me he sounds like an ingrate.. If they were paying me THAT much $$ a week to keep repeating my hit songs I would be a happy camper, start to finish.. You learned the instrument, a tool of the trade, same as a plumber, carpenter, or dentist does, and give your customers, clients, patients whatever it is THEY need, get paid for your services, shut up, and be grateful you're doing a dignified job and living extremely well by it....I had no idea Shaw was this crude; similar to Buddy Rich's attitude...I do agree with one thing: I too wish people would not clap in jazz clubs after solos.. It interrupts the overall effect of the piece and makes it seem as if it's a score during a sports event. They don't clap in the middle of classical music; solos or whatever..and jazz is modern, American 'classical' music..the solos are not 'touchdowns' or 'home runs'..They're just improvised portions of a larger statement which shouldn't be tainted with clapping and hooting.. But, I know I'll never win that argument, and I'm a retired bass player..(and wouldn't be if the work hadn't disappeared)... I left the video at 16:46...realizing it's just going to be more bitching and ingratitude for a great life of success..

[@seanohare5488]

Agree an ingrate 60 000 a week in 1940 s hell like very few made that much then

[@joshcharlat850]

Understand your point of view, but he isn't a regular guy punching the clock as he probably wishes he had been. I think he got distorted by all the money and fame, but if you are striving for something new or different from a previous success, I think you can become frustrated and disenchanted. Miles Davis is one of the few to never look back and change as often as he wanted to. He didn't try to satisfy his audiences. And of course the audiences were disappointed. I guess that makes Miles an ingrate, too then. ​@@seanohare5488

[@patoni860]

20:23 for you guys that don't know, he's talking about lips page and Roy Eldridge

[@MrKlemps]

Artie has a major superiority complex and seems fixated on HIMSELF. Given a host of opportunities to talk about other musicians, he can muster only a single sentence, except for taking two to malign Duke. The real problem: music itself came second. The Tony Bennett incident displays this well. He couldn't understand how much the music and the opportunity to perform it meant to Tony. He tells the story to illustrate his superiority without a clue as to its real meaning. But anyone who could play "Begin the Beguine" the way he did cant be all bad.

[@seanohare5488]

Well said and I agree how Shawn couldn't understand Tony Bennett gratefulness which he was happy to perform for people whereas Shaw patience in comparison was looking for himself more but I have to say he was the best clarrnitst he edging out Goodman as a band in his swing era equal to Tommy Dorsey who did have better male singers in Sinatra and dick haymes

[@monkeyrater]

Keep in mind that Artie is a completely self taught musician. And those were the days you really had to know harmonic theory really well to be able to play sheet music the first time

[@bobtaylor170]

@@monkeyrater Shaw on the clarinet: "I had the f*cking thing in my mouth twelve hours a day for fifteen years before anybody ever heard of me."

[@gordonmorris6359]

Very similar to John Lennon's truth speaking about the devastating effects of fame, fans, and business.

[@drbassface]

Movie:Second Chorus….Artie, Fred Astaire, and Burgess Meredith. Some fun and funny stuff.

[@gordonely3591]

All the popular leaders of swing bands were hugely talented and hard -- working artists , but in my opinion Artie Shaw wrote the most intriguing arrangements ( scores )

[@seanohare5488]

Agree

[@garnerjazz58]

He had good arrangers. As a clarinetist he had no peer-his control of the Altissimo set him apart, listen to Stardust and be blown away by his legato.

[@stogies3]

3:12 Hampton,Jackson,Shaw? Who’s the guitar player if anybody knows?

[@curtgottler9961]

Les Paul

[@stogies3]

@ Thanx

[@garryberman894]

I've read and heard many interviews with Shaw. I can only conclude that he was a seriously unpleasant, argumentative, bitter person who had a gripe about everything and everyone in the world of music, and a chip on his shoulder the size of Mt. Everest. Screw him.

[@mysticakhenaton1701]

those BIG bandleaders back in the day. were movie stars of the music business. Artie Shaw, Duke Ellington, Glenn Miller, Count Basie, Quincy Jones, Chick Webb, Benny Goodman. and so many others...listening to Shaw about the music business. bring Michael Jackson to mind. now, I see why he went crazy.

[@mysticakhenaton1701]

I saw a documentary on Jazz some years back/KEN BURNS... successful as Artie Shaw's was his parents were ashamed of him being a BIG bandleader. they wanted him to be a doctor. Artie had BIG hit records he would send to his parents. they NEVER listen to any of them. they put them into their closet to collect dust, he found out later.

[@clarinetowner]

At 17:20 the photo shows Benny Goodman and his band

[@J0hnC0ltrane]

I've heard, it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. Artie Shaw was very savvy.

[@davidreidenberg9941]

It is not uncommon for geniuses in the creative arts to have troubled lives. If they were normal people they couldn’t do what they did.

[@seanohare5488]

Agree

[@johncontos264]

At times , this sounds more like an argument than an interview!

[@Erschophone]

He likes to appear as a 'serious intellectual' yet every sentence he speaks contradicts the previous one. He obviously had a certain standard of living and wouldn't go below that. Real musicians who are 100% dedicated to 'the music' find a way to make music so it doesn't become a 'business'. The others are just mere pop musicians. The interviewer had great comeback questions with the examples of Duke Ellington and Woody Herman (and despite the quality of Shaw's clarinet solos, his bands as a whole never attained the creative levels of those orchestras) and he didn't have a response other than to denigrate Ellington's output in the 1960s (which was so much more than just the Sacred Concerts - had Shaw even taken the time to listen to "Far East Suite", "Afro Bossa" or "And His Mother Called Him Bill?" Of course not... He whines and complains about finances but then @11:40 he lets it slip out how much money he was really making at his peak. He wasn't really dedicated to the music 100% like Jazz musicians from the 1940s to the present: for him it was business first and foremost. Nobody ever "made" him do anything: he chose the paths he took (but he's not able to even admit it to himself). All this being said, the most lucid thing he had to say in the interview was the end (27:00) when he was criticizing Goodman's artistic limitations. Thanks for making this historical document available: it helps us not only to better understand the character of Artie Shaw (whose name means "Artichoke' in French...) but to understand the enormous differences between Jazz in the Swing era of the 1930s and Jazz from the post-war period to the present.

[@Reformed_Hamburglar]

I don't disagree on his bitterness blinding himself to the great output of other cats. However, this is a fantastic glimpse into a rags to riches to rage story. You can tell once he was on top the industry pressure to do the same damn thing night in and night out really got to him. Has all the money, all the accolades and yet is totally miserable in that moment because he feels creatively bankrupt. And in turn, he becomes such a hater, lol. Hates when people scream in the audience, hates other's output, on and on. Here we are generations later wondering what it's even like for folks to scream in joy after a great jazz solo...and Artie hated it, ha!

[@sherylkatz8827]

He was a genius as a clarinetist. Better than Goodman by a long shot. Goodman was a brilliant band leader and improviser but his clarinet skill didn’t com close to Shaw. Shaw obviously had his personal and emotional issues, but his talent was monumental.

[@williamfarr8807]

@@sherylkatz8827 Well, to my way of thinking, comparing artists can be a little like comparing apples and oranges. However, Benny Goodman was the clarinetist of choice when Igor Stravinsky conducted and recorded his Ebony Concerto and when Aaron Copland conducted and recorded his Concerto for Clarinet. Goodman must have been reasonably competent on the instrument.

[@johnryan3913]

I find your distinction between pre war and post war, or so called pop and serious jazz artificial or exaggerated at least. Almost every bopper made commercial records as well. A lot of it has to do with culture and a musician's attitude, background, especially when they started insisting jazz was an art (which it was and always had been). Also musicians who grew up poor are more inclined to be insecure about money. You could say the same about to 50s rock and 60s-70s rock, some of which Christgau described as "semi popular music". A lot had to do with class and cultural context.

[@rexallen9970]

Thanks for pointing out those obvious contradictions. I loved Shaw’s band, his arrangers, etc., and his clarinet work, but he himself is the very definition of contradiction. And to borrow from Shakespeare, “methinks he doth protesteth too much!”

[@rexallen9970]

As a BIG BAND leader for 42 years - and a huge SHAW fan - I could tell you from experience that Artie Shaw is a study in CONTRADICTIONS. Chief among which is his insistence that success as a band leader rules out creativity, and that creativity rules out success. It also has to be said that at the tender young age of 23 he became an overnight superstar, with tight contractual obligations that can’t be overlooked. He says so many things in these interviews that are correct, and logical in those contexts but then conflates them into other contexts that are totally asinine. He makes “60 bucks a week” just like all the guys in the band, and then Later, he says he grossed 60,000 per week… All contradictory. Shaw is absolutely right about keeping control of the band as a leader. The leader is what the public is buying, not the second alto sax the third trombonist or the bass player, and yet he gives very little recognition to all the guys in that orchestra that without them , he wouldn’t have achieved what he achieved. And then, let’s not forget the people who NEVER GET ANY CREDIT for the big band era successes: the ARRANGERS. He briefly references Lenny Hayden and Si Oliver… That’s all. Without arrangers - Artie Shaw, and every one of us band leaders - would be NOTHING. Let’s just say this: he’s very selective in his praise, and very selective in his rage. I, for one, would love to be pulling down the equivalent of $6 million a year leading a big band today, and if I had to play every damned solo on my trombone the every same way (which Shaw on clarinet falsely claims he did), then I’d be thrilled to do it….who wouldn’t?

[@Jasper7182009]

Geezzz…. Shaw is so full of himself. He’s like a constant migraine headache!

[@seanohare5488]

Agree

[@seanohare5488]

Shaw was an intellectual overload he s constantly quoting writers

[@tomgrosemusic]

He was brilliant.

[@marshalmcdonald7476]

I love Artie Shaw's music but he just sounds neurotically restless, cynical and controlling here. He seems like one of those types of players who hates the audience. Why was he so judgmental about those GREAT musicians who LOVED music just as much as he did but who loved playing their hits?? Why is that any of his business? Sad.

[@peztopher7297]

He acknowledges he's a different type of personality. And HE was pressured to be like those others.

[@marshalmcdonald7476]

@@peztopher7297 True. He admits to being difficult. I'm a professional musician and find these 'martyr' types just insufferable. They claim to be burdened with genius and that everyone else are just 'morons'. He called the kids who loved his music morons. He also admits to regretting much of his attitude throughout his career so I give him credit there. But here's the thing, there was no law requiring him to be a musician. I have brilliant players who were grateful for the opportunity of making music. He just seems arrogant. He made plenty of money and could have gone his precious little way and made his genius artistic music at any time. But no, he's just gotta play that martyr crap. I guess I should apologize but I have to admit that I love Begin the Beguine. Sorry Artie, so sorry.

[@msjazzmeblues]

Yes, He was right about the royalties, but wrong about created music. It doesn't live for the creator. It lives IN AND FOR the listener (as stupid as we may be in his eyes).

[@jstevenj1]

Artie was a hot shit, I knew a few things about him, now I know him as a bright bulb in a dark business inside an insane world. My kind of American...

[@Alsatiagent-zu1rx]

One articulate mofo!

[@cpu554]

Had a housemate keyboardist that played in a touring top 40 band back in the 70's. Got so bored and disgusted with the music that he climbed on the roof of a casino hotel and thought about jumping.