Young Justice vs. Disability Tropes

[@TheCrazeace]

Honestly, I'd love the idea of Barbara getting her hands on a tricked out wheelchair that's also a missile launcher. But yeah she's Oracle, her whole deal is being the info broker and master hacker.

[@LGhost-wo8hf]

But let’s be honest, she’s friends with BRUCE WAYNE, there’s no way his paranoid ass wouldn’t put missile launchers on her wheelchair

[@EggplantRobin]

There is actually a bit in the... Nightwing vol. 2 comic line I believe? In which Babs finds out Nightwing's gotten himself captured by some minor crooks, and since everyone else is busy at the time, she just goes to the warehouse herself to help him out. She acts all helpless and scared to get the criminals to let their guards down, and once they're all in range she presses a button on her wheelchair that shoots a bunch of taser lines out of it and immediately takes down everyone!! So yeah, not quite a missile launcher, but still a cool tricked out wheelchair! And tbh Oracle Barbara has taken down quite a lot of people with just the strength and skill she has in using her arms to fight; she's trained in escrima like Nightwing is and is easliy lethal with them.

[@TheCrazeace]

@@EggplantRobin whoa that's so cool. I hope something like that happens in the show honestly 🤣

[@quill_plays_sims]

it would still be cool, even if she isn't doing physical combat. If any villains try to come after her, she'll be all set.

[@MadAliceInWonderland]

I think a good way to remedy the, "look what happened to me! Is this what you want?" Should have instead been more of an, "Look at me, you may not be this lucky if you continue." (as in, she could die)

[@Jumikana]

Well one good thing that can be said about season 4 is that they did get rid of the hospital model wheelchair. They also showed that Barbara becoming disabled was not because of the Killing Joke story but the execution of what happened in this continuity is not something i can comment on. Another thing that Barbara's segment reminded me of is a Chinese animated show I am currently watching called Swallowed Star in it the main character has a brother who is a wheelchair user. At the start of the show we can see that MCs family is weary poor and his brother is seen using an almost comically oversized hospital model (plus MC laments that his brother cant go out much if at all as the building they are living in does not have any accessibility options) - a bit later when MC gets a weary prestigious job with both a sizable monetary signing bonus and a private home as a part of the signing bonus he both makes sure that house has accessibility features for his brother and buys him a fancy new wheelchair.

[@saphicaenby]

I saw the black and white ring on the right and left hand respectively and yelped in excitement! I literally went "are they asexual and or aromantic?" And later in the video they confirmed they were Asexual! As a fellow AroAce Enby it's just really exciting to see other Aces and Aros online. Also enjoyed the video. Barbra is one of my favorite superheroes along with Cassandra Cain's Orphan, and Wonder woman.

[@user-cc4rn6om4i]

Enby lol

[@breezy3392]

Just clarifying, we do find out that Barbara was paralyzed while on the job as Batgirl.

[@GenderPunkJezebelle999]

I mean, you can't even really argue that it would be a handout for Barbara to get a wheelchair. Bruce should just buy her one because it would make her job easier.

[@medalgear654]

barbara is on of my favourite characters but I always loved her as Oracle more than Batgirl. She shows her true strength by having to deal with her disability and still contributing. to the BAt Family.

[@michaelmccullough1034]

I would be very interested in your thoughts on Barbara's Oracle origin in Young Justice now that we know it. I would also be interested in your thoughts on Victor Stone/Cyborg in general. He's been positioned as role model for kids who use prosthetics in the 1st Cartoon Network Teen Titians series and in his first run in the New Teen Titans comics from the 80's. It's all very scifi but in Geoff John's run Victor even talks about the the upkeep he has to do on the organic parts of his body which makes me think about how amputees have go care for parts of their body where their prosthetics connect.

[@MyFuzzyHamster]

So many shows dont accurately show the after affects of being in coma. If you are in coma for long period time your muscles atrophy, you cant walk. At first you are weak and you have to regain muscels. You have to learn to walk again and that prosses is slow. At the start just moving your toes is hard.

[@MsBrendalina]

Since you mentioned the sad lack of disabled characters being written as desirable romantic interests, I'd love to see you do a video on the Sly Cooper games. The third game features a playable character in a wheelchair named Bentley (the character sustains an injury in the second game and loses the use of his legs). He builds a combat wheelchair so he can still be active in heists with his team. And a big plot line in the third game is him coming to terms with his disability and falling in love (he initially worries that the wheelchair makes him less desirable to his love interest). Its a game about talking animals stealing stuff. And it has some of the most well done disability representation I've ever seen. LOL

[@revanius2213]

In season 4 another disabled individual is revealed with Orphan who has no vocal cords and is unable to speak because of this.

[@ToHoldNothing]

I think we'd seen her before, but yeah, she finally actually got some degree of story. And it was different from teh comics in a big way: Lady Shiva, her mother, freaking removed them, whereas usually she's just raised by her father David Cain without language and she basically is able to communicate more in body language or such and is functionally mute, though she does gain that ability with some drawbacks of sorts, basically like a learning disability, iirc

[@ShadoTempest]

I hope we’ll get to see more of Barbara in season 4

[@marianmonterrubio3503]

And about that chair, I think they did change it. (I'm not totally sure, I haven't watched season 4). And how she got paralyzed.

[@maggieb1645]

S4E6 shows her in a different wheelchair. No idea how accurate/appropriate it is, but it is definitely not the hospital wheelchair.

[@gyrrakavian]

There's no way Uncle Bruce or Dick Grayson wouldn't get Barbara a decent wheelchair. Hell, Batsy is probably trying to come up with some sort of better disability aid (that wouldn't completely make the problem go away and would get into the nitty gritty of visible vs invisible disability) from his chronic guilt complex.

[@an8strengthkobold360]

You'd think she'd have a "Bat-Chair" tm.

[@danielladahoui888]

With Season 4, I’m so glad they changed how she became Oracle from The Killing Joke: it was about her choices and influencing Orphan to do the right thing. It was about saving someone from falling into the dark path. Oracle had more agency and her disability was tied into her decisions, and having been more aware of the risks of being a vigilante.

[@ToHoldNothing]

And arguably kind of has a dark mirror for Orphan, since she was disabled by her mother at a young age (bit of spoilers there, I won't go into details if you don't already know, though you may) and Barbara was disabled by Orphan, due to Orphan's mother and abusive training that made her so brutal. The two have a dynamic that seems similar to the comics from what I see, albeit Orphan here is unlikely to ever have conversations with Barbara...for obvious reasons

[@isaacfrandsen4569]

i think the main reason we usually see a hospital chair is that most peopl wont now that a better version exists

[@alanporter4372]

4:54 I wouldn’t call that ableism or say it’s horrific but what parent would want their child to go out fighting psychopaths and super criminals much less want their child to become disabled. Obviously you love them regardless but you’d never wish or pray as your pregnant or watching your 2 yr old run around that they’d be put at any kind of disadvantage and let’s not lie whether or not you’ve gotten over your disability and are in a healthy place you are at a disadvantage as opposed to people who aren’t

[@allium_fox404]

There is a graphic novel on Barbara’s disability and how it affected her early on called The Oracle Code. I personally really like it and would recommend a read.

[@abigayletorello4635]

I am now officially on team high tech chair for Barb

[@mione12gft71]

about barbara, greg weisman said she being oracle has nothing do with the killing joke in YJ universe

[@astrovoid9393]

I love disabled characters. they're usually my favorite, especially if they have leg issues. I have bad knees, and i've dislocated my left one a couple years ago. And according to my last doctors appointment, i might have ehlers danlos syndrome.

[@a4rosli]

And in season four we got Orphan who has her vocal cordes damanged, so she can't speak. They really do add a character per season. Edit: I just remembered Savage's doughter is disabled too.

[@HotDogTimeMachine385]

Sadly this in turn pushes Orphan into the the quiet asian stereotype. It's a common stereotype where female asian characters are emotionless silent assassins. And Cassandra....

[@a4rosli]

@@HotDogTimeMachine385 I never thought about it pushing Orphan into this kind of stereotype, but you're kinda right ;-; that's very not cool. But they did show her being able to communicate even without a voice well if I rememer correcly (I watched it a few months ago). I kinda hate Cassandra as a person, but we have to admit missing an arm didn't make her less badass or anything by any means.

[@writer_man5318]

@@HotDogTimeMachine385 I mean to be fair, Cassandra Cain was initially this as well. They just allowed her to overcome it by having her learn to speak - and not always in the best way. With Young Justice, they removed the ability to just overcome her disability and instead have to learn with it. It's just too bad that the cast size means we don't see things like her learning sign language to communicate.

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

@@writer_man5318 She does use sign language in the comic book continuation to Season 4, Young Justice: Targets. Dick and Stephanie also communicate also know it and use it to communicate with her.

[@MuffinHunterX]

As I understand it there's been in universe "cures" for paralysis in the comics for years but Barbara refuses to take part in them until they become affordable to the general public. The clunky wheelchair may be a reflection of that stubbornness. Personally I'd call B.S. on that mentality for many reasons but really it boils down to lazy writing. As if she couldn't remain Oracle unless she's disabled.

[@hbsupreme1499]

Well yea cuz she would go back to batgirl cuz she's able again

[@Phoenixashes-zx7vt]

She could go both ways she doesn’t have to chose one way or the other

[@nomisunrider6472]

I'd be really interested in a season 4 follow-up of this, mostly cause of Rocket's storyline (i'm not a fan of autism mom storylines but this one was more bearable than most), the season-long subplot of Beast Boy's depression, and the "Zone sickness", which to be fair isn't a mental illness as much as a character being psychically attacked.

[@ToHoldNothing]

Heck, Connor was manipulated by Zod arguably while in the Phantom Zone, it's pretty cultish. At least Lor Zod completes the circle, so to speak *wink-wink*

[@HistorysRaven]

Concerning Barbara and her wheelchair, the ONLY explanation I can think for it is modeling. Cheaper to reuse a model you already have than to create a new one. That said, I don't know what the budget was for this show and it's still a flimsy excuse that comes down to "we were being lazy gits."

[@alaud-dinahmadshah8926]

I love this channel. Finally a person who speak about the things I like and with a perspective that I really want to hear. I can't wait for your new videos, greetings from Uruguay my fellow 😁

[@ajsan5841]

tbf the mom saying that shit makes sense, moms just bring up the most irrelevant shit when they are mad at their children 😭

[@milk_is_a_lie9331]

LOL and here I was all "at least give them a decent looking wheelchair." The odd thing about Oracle, besides having a hospital wheelchair, from the TV show in the 60's the hair color was from a wig, and then now it is their natural hair.

[@Jemini4228]

t would be interesting to see a study into rates of internalized abelism in countries with free/cheap healthcare and robust welfare systems/accessable employment opportunities vs countries where healthcare is private and expensive and there are less opportunities/safety nets for disabled people. I think it would be easier to resent one's disability and to blame it for one's woes in a place where one was forced to scrape by.

[@sotakovatereza352]

I wanted to ask what if someone wants to write a character who has internalised ableism? Is there a good way to do it? Is there a way to show the reader/viewer that the character is wrong to think about themself in that way? PS: I really like your videos.

[@Oakwyrm]

Thank you ^^ As for your question I'd say if you're gonna write a character with interalised ableism you have to either; 1) Have other disabled characters in your story who're at peace with themselves. 2) Tie it to a greater issue in their life (impostor syndrome, anxiety, depression, a toxic home life, lack of acceptance, etc.). Because more often than not internalised biases result from a complex web of our past experiences. I didn't struggle with accepting I was disabled 'just because', I struggled with it because of my dad's constant down-playing of my issues. 3) Have that character be central enough to the story that they can have a character arc where they can work through their issues. You could also have another disabled character reach out of them to talk from a place of compassion and understanding. What I would /not/ recommend you do is have an able bodied character give them a motivational speech about how 'you can do anything you set your mind to!' because that's nine times out of ten gonna come off as really condescending.

[@sotakovatereza352]

@@Oakwyrm Thank you. She is one of the central characters so I'm going with option 3.

[@doraps4764]

@@Oakwyrm Yeah, it's sometimes hard to see that line between writing a character going "My life is terrible because I'm disabled." and "My life is terrible because society refuses to provide me with proper accomodations for my disability." If a poor person becomes disabled in a way that makes them unable to do their job, depending on the social safety nets of their community and whether they have a family support network, in some extreme cases they might literally not be able to afford to live. In less extreme cases, a disabled person might feel angry that they are unable to do the things they used to love, either as a result of their disability making them unable to do it, or due to them now having less or even no disposable income. This is exactly why able-bodied people such as myself should really refer to a disabled beta reader when writing stuff like that, csuse it's a really nuanced situation.

[@justanotheranimationchanne5725]

it’s important to frame the internalized ableism as a character flaw, it’s something that’s hurting them and maybe others. it’s also good to stress that the issue is their reaction to being disabled (and society’s reaction), not being disabled on its own.

[@RialVestro]

There is actually a 4th disabled character but he's barely featured, appearing in I think only one episode of the entire series. Billy Batson gets a lot more screen time and his sister Mary has a bit more presence in season 4 but the other members of the Shazam family are kind of forgotten about after their initial introduction. Because of the nature of the Shazam powers as a super hero his disability is also completely negated which might be why you forgot he even existed in the first place but Freddy Freeman is actually a disabled character who does exist in Young Justice. Without his powers whenever he changes back into his 10 year old self, Freddy uses a crutch to get around. It's not like he just broke his leg or something, he's always had that crutch as he essentially was born without the use of one of his legs. He can walk some what regularly on one side but just one leg can't fully support his body weight so he's not able to walk without the use of a crutch. It's a very tiny Tim style crutch too which might come from the fact that they grew up in a very poor orphanich originally before later versions would change it to a foster home because orphaniches don't really exist anymore and that term was kind of already outdated when the episode aired. Anyway, Freddy tends to get bullied a lot due to his disability in every fiction he's ever appeared in. However at least more recent versions of the character tend to be written more positively actually being some what capable of standing up for himself rather than being completely helpless. Billy does still try to stand up for him when they first meet but it's made clear that Freddy didn't actually need his help. This remains true for the Young Justice version if I remember correctly but my memory is horrible so don't quote me on that. Anyway they could very easily have written Freddy to just stay in super hero mode at all times, the form where he doesn't have his disability but they didn't do that. Oddly it's actually Mary who we later find out had a addition to constantly being in hero mode as she's seen in season 4 in recovery from that addiction and trying to learn how to still be a hero without relying on her powers all the time. The weird thing is... the way she's doing that doesn't actually make any sense cause she's still using powers, she's just learning a different kind of magic and avoiding turning into her super hero alter ego... and it's even shown that she's becoming addicted to her new powers in the exact same way so how it any different just because she isn't using her Shazam mode anymore? Anyway, Freddy is sarcastic, and funny, kind of like Spider-man except he happens to also be disabled and I kind of wish he got more screen time but the show itself seems to have forgot he existed.

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

We got a crumb of Freddy in the comic book continuation to Season 4, Young Justice: Targets. In his cameo, he does use a crutch and Plastic Man turns into a chair to help him sit down.

[@ToHoldNothing]

People bring up Cassandra Cain and Cassandra Savage, but technically the latter (SPOILERSturns out to be a glamer that made it seem like she was scarred and had an arm amputatedSPOILERS) There is a parallel there with both of them being disabled intentionally by their parents for one reason or another

[@jakubgodyn7413]

It was revealed that on the show Barbara was paralyzed while on a mission as Batgirl, so here it was a semi-valid argument.

[@CleverClovers]

The whole fact that my chair is so goddamned clunky and heavy, and I can't get a better one, and I live in a hilly city that makes using my chair by myself a hell on fucking earth, is exactly why I put myself through epic amounts of pain to use a walker to get my shit done. I didn't see season three so I didn't know how pissed I'd be Barbra Gordon's situation. They're really trying to tell us that she wouldn't research every possible chair and custom order the best one for her? That she'd willingly put up with a better than nothing hunk of asdlfk;ja? Does this thing take place a month after her accident or something because that's the only reason I can think that she'd put up with that shit. Hell, if Bruce commissioned it himself she could have it in what, a week? They have money there's no excuse she should be rolling around in every chair user's personal version of just one step up from hell. >:/

[@sofialu226]

Oh! You are ace too!? Did you mentioned it in the other YJ Video? If so I missed it, if not... I'm more interested on you making a new video after S4!! I didn't make the conection with your avatar desing colours because I though you just liked those, I mean, I liked Purple before discovering I was Ace XD

[@strandedgeek]

Honestly all things considered the wheel chair is probably at most a default model design for animators and you're reading too deep into the meaning of it. It's iconic design that most people are familiar with when they think wheelchair & it was probably was not thought much of because they dozens of other important things to create. Actually given what we have with the Arsenal story Young Justice did him much better than the utter insanity & insult that was the comic Rise of Arsenal that had so many problems I won't bore you with listing them here.

[@58209]

usually i get frustrated with characters being put in a off-the-shelf, hospital style wheelchair (or worse, a transport chair) when they're established to be well adjusted wheelchair users who have sufficient support systems to acquire a properly fitted custom chair. i make an exception for harper's mom, because her disability-enforced poverty reflects my own experience as a undertreated and impoverished wheelchair user. i should have had a properly fitted complex powerchair from the start due to my severe fatigue and whole-body immobility, but 5 years later, i'm still in a off-the-shelf, folding manual chair that's way too big for me and i can barely push under the best circumstances because my doctors and insurance won't let me qualify for the type of chair i actually need. as a consequence, i spend most of my days bedbound and housebound, and going out means relying on someone else to physically carry my chair down the stairs and push me. i can't recall if harper's apartment is up a flight of stairs, but honestly that tracks too, with myself and other wheelchair users i know who are also housebound by the lack of ramp and elevator infrastructure. mostly, the least accurate thing i noticed from the season 1 wheelchair was that the character never rotated the chair to keep facing characters in conversation. this might be chalked up to animation shortcuts, but honestly it should have been included in the animation, as it's just as important to show your wheelchair using characters pivoting their chairs to follow a moving conversation as it is to show walking characters rotating on the spot.

[@SuperIcelight]

The show technically has another disabled character in Guy Gardner, who has a brain injury. I know this because he's my favorite character, and they mention that he was in a coma for years. It doesn't really come up, and I'm not sure they ever state why he was in a coma. It's better than his portrayal in the comics just by virtue of the narration and other characters not constantly being ableist towards him, but that's not a high bar to clear. I'm sad about him.

[@BlazingKhioneus]

Question: what does the amount of white hair on your avatar while you're talking represent?

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

Looks like the strength of negative emotions to me: how much anger, disappointment, exasperation, etc. he is feeling.

[@hbsupreme1499]

The point is super hero work is dangerous and risk your health the resaon people in the real world dont do certain things, you can't ask able people to be ok with being disabled

[@pie1o1morris46]

May I ask what's your opinion on disability rep in A Silent Voice?

[@mdust8409]

THISSSSS, i would love to see this. i love this movie and i love nishimiya so it would be awesome to know how well was handle disability in this story.

[@Auron1Roxas2]

Well we know now that Barbra didn't end up in a wheelchair because of the joker. Well kind of but not in the same way as the comics.

[@tunedude19]

I learned a lot here thank yoy

[@tunedude19]

Will you do this again but for Oracle/batgirl in Titans?

[@ToHoldNothing]

Ah, I had to think for a bit: they do change the nature of the disability, I believe, but they do still have representation that is legit, the actress playing Barbara I believe actually had a prosthetic leg. It's a weird subversion, but YJ S4 did the same thing with how Barbara was paralyzed

[@jg_rosa]

What is your opinion about Cyborg?

[@Oakwyrm]

At the moment I don't honestly know what to do with him. He didn't even cross my mind as a disabled character, I think mostly because of the whole Fatherbox deal. It was tackled from a much more of a "when does man become machine" angle than a disability lens, which is a pity because Cyborg has canonically been known to connect with and inspire amputee kids. And even then that angle wasn't very deeply explored at all because his entire arc basically boiled down to being someone for Halo to save who could then return the favour later. On the whole I honestly prefer his old backstory of being outfitted with experimental prosthesis by his father over the newer ones, regardless of which kind of magic alien tech box it is that grants him his powers. It feels much more grounded, despite how wild it actually still is. If we see more of him, or any of the other characters I talked about here, in season four I might make a follow-up video.

[@jg_rosa]

@@Oakwyrm ok, that makes sense. I was curious, I wasn't able to found any stuff about him as a disabled character. Actually, besides your video I only found one site talking about it. It was a very good video btw.

[@Oakwyrm]

Thank you ^^

[@tunedude19]

What do you think of Barbra Gordon in the live action series

[@discarto]

@@Oakwyrm Some of the characters were touched upon in S4! Sadly, not Cyborg's case, but I would like to see what do you have to say about it

[@andieblake137]

I have a question about the wheelchair thing. I'm in the middle of writing my own middle-grade trilogy and the mother of one of my main characters is a wheelchair user. It's briefly mentioned in the first book when said main character is chasing his pet and she uses her wheelchair to block a possible escape path but I don't go too into detail about it. In the second book, however, I'm planning a major scene with her in it and I want to add more detail about how she maneuvers it. I don't know many wheelchair users so I'm worried about misrepresenting her. Since you're a wheelchair user yourself and are a big advocate for disability representation, which model would you recommend I give her?

[@user-cc4rn6om4i]

Lol werido looking thing

[@f.w.3823]

I dont know but that whole argument sounds a bit stupid to me

[@sandwingsauce6085]

Yoooo! I'm asexual and trans too!!! What are the odds! Your videos on disability representation are really fun to watch and stuff like this needs to be brought into the light more often. Keep fighting the good fight 💙💘🤍💘💙 🖤🤍💜