Your smartwatch is lying to you

[@DrAndrewSteele]

If you thought you’d seen the last of Dr Rohin ‘Medlife Crisis’ Francis and his magnificient moustache, think again. And I’ve actually made more Medlife content since this vid so check out the smartwatches playlist for me of me and Rohin chatting wearables: kzbin.info/aero/PLg0VbZ0kyCHl0yKBAQZ0NaI-Gxax6_0oX

[@MacellaioNero]

Really enjoying this series - could I ask, what software/apps were used in conjunction with the Polar H10 to gather the RHR data?

[@DrAndrewSteele]

@@MacellaioNero Thanks, glad to hear you’re enjoying these! :) For the Polar, I used this great Android app to collect all the data as massive CSVs: play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.j_ware.polarsensorlogger I did the analysis with some home-made R scripts which I’m planning to tidy up and share at some point…

[@MacellaioNero]

@@DrAndrewSteele Thanks so much!

[@Wawet76]

HRV is what is used by Garmin for the stress level as I understand. I'm looking forward this video. Garmin seem to give this indicator a high value: Their "body battery " rate of descent seems based on that.

[@rredding]

I liked what this guy does, he is measuring many kinds of smart watches and compares that with a Polar chest strap: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHawYqBthMmfr7ssi=xHzQUsK7Y0V8Y-uP

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

That moustache has it's own resting heart rate.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

do you think he could fly with that thing if we go him going fast enough? I'd really like to know. Seems like it might be able to produce enough lift 😊

[@evanbarnes9984]

I think it's also prehensile!

[@JamesAlexander14]

Worryingly, there might be refugees hiding there…

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Boom boom

[@माधवीरामदीन]

😂😂

[@MedlifeCrisis]

Amazing breakdown of all the data points, you've displayed them all fantastically. I've gotta say, I really do think the the 'cynical' reason you started with is the real reason. But yes, I accept the alternative that it's just simpler to measure overnight, however unlike the cardiac monitors we tend to use for patients, wearable devices have a major extra feature - accelerometers. Surely it would be really easy to find a 5 minute period with minimal activity and then use that for RHR. And maybe repeat several times. I think sleeping HR is a perfectly good metric to track (as you suggest), but people should be made aware of the difference. We've been focusing on the low end, but I would hate people ignoring 90bpm overnight because they think it's in the normal range of 60-100. If someone's HR is that high at night, I'd recommend getting checked for things like sleep apnoea etc.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Thanks, doc! And very good point about patients at the higher end-it’s definitely even worse at 90 bpm! And totally agree about the accelerometers, in fact that’s exactly what I did to split the heart rate data up into active, resting and asleep…I used the Fitbit step counter and found every point where no steps were registered for at least five minutes. It wasn’t rocket surgery.

[@yeetyeet7070]

UwU doctoru-san

[@claudiopiccoliromera2646]

Samsung watches do exactly that. And the app shows when the measurement was taken/chosen, so you can judge for yourself if the measurement was correct.

[@derksenjenny]

That is what apple Does, it has resting and sleeping heart rate en even walking heart rate.

[@_ch1pset]

Doctor, that mustache is glorious

[@markjohnson8998]

You can find more clarification on Apple's RHR figure in their 'Health' app. Specifically, it says "Your resting heart rate is the average heart beats per minute measured when you've been inactive or relaxed for serval minutes." and continues with "Resting heart rate does not include your heart rate while you're asleep and is validated for users over the age of 18 years."

[@MrAwawe]

In that case it's just straight up inaccurate, right? His wakeful resting heart rate is far from 44 bpm, so if that's what it's supposed to be measuring, it's completely off.

[@davidbraswell1481]

@@MrAwawe my apple watch has never said mine was that low this dude is doing something fishy

[@MrAwawe]

@@davidbraswell1481 have you measured your actual resting heart rate and compared it to the results from the apple watch? Andrew is quite fit, which will exacerbate the issue. Maybe you're getting 52 while your actual resting heart rate is 60.

[@KindredBrujah]

@@davidbraswell1481 Yes, this guy is lying to invalidate Apple for... reasons, rather than the notoriously inaccurate measurements from a wearable just happened to be inaccurate when he checked. Legit take, well done.

[@TrailBikeMike]

I came here to say this. But the strange thing is, I had a Garmin for a few years. When I bought my Apple Watch my resting heart-rate figure increased from around 52bpm to around 60bpm.

[@eveleynce]

while not backed by any data, my theory as to why the clinical world has settled on 60-100 instead of 50-90 as their RHR range, is because of the lack of time in a clinic setting. they take your heart rate & blood pressure after having gotten up, spoken with the nurses, maybe gotten nervous, walked around, etc. they don't have time to let you sit for 10 minutes in a stress-free environment just to get your heart rate.

[@kingknique]

Might be true

[@iamjohnrobot]

Is often true. My blood pressure was measured at 135/90 or something like that, then I told them “lol” that can’t be right. We sat a few minutes did it again, 105/75 or something like that. (I exercise more than a bit). The only difference was not talking for about two minutes first.

[@davemeise2192]

I agree. They don't have the time to let one "rest" for five minutes. I remember when I was in my 20's and the Dr took my blood pressure. I was very fit and he was surprised at how high it was. I had just quickly went up three flights of stairs to go and see him. It took a few minutes for him to see me but less than five minutes had elapsed. He presumed I had taken the elevator as most people did. We both had a good laugh over it.

[@TheStrengthScholar]

That's not mentioning the fact that most watches test your resting heart rate when you're actually asleep versus just sitting or laying down

[@benpptung074]

I've been wearing a Fitbit for over 3 years, and I believe that the Fitbit resting heart rate (RHR) feature is useful for two reasons. 1). Monitoring your RHR over the past year can indicate whether your health is improving or deteriorating. For instance, I quit consuming caffeine six months ago and noticed my RHR gradually decreasing. When I contracted COVID-19 three months ago, my RHR skyrocketed during the 10-day period, even while I was asleep. As my RHR began to decline, I started recovering from COVID-19. 2). I also check the lowest heart rate during my sleep, as I find it helpful in assessing my overall well-being. I've noticed that my lowest heart rate decreases as my body becomes healthier. In my opinion, the exact RHR number doesn't matter; what's important is observing the trend, whether it's going up or down, as it provides valuable insight into your health.

[@davidbraswell1481]

yes correct but , Apple is correct too, you just need folks to know how to use the watch......as most don't even show or talk about sleep focus ..which is very important !!!! for more metrics!!

[@ac27934]

Yep, I too have noticed that each time I get COVID, my resting and sleeping heart rate shoot way up until I begin to recover. I've seen this happen dramatically over the course of a single night, from 100 down to 70 (I'm usually in the 50s).

[@loganmedia1142]

It would seem a bit strange for heart rate to gradually decrease from ceasing to consume caffeine. Any effect from caffeine should be gone pretty quickly.

[@darkfyy]

@@loganmedia1142If you know anything about how caffeine works, yes the chemical effects go away quickly but the negative metabolic and hormonal effects stay for quite a bit after a consistent use

[@peteracain]

As a cardiologist I can tell you *all peripherals* (including BP monitors) under-count the true *heart rate* (i.e. the number of times the heart contracts). This is different to the *pulse rate* How can this be true? Well even fit people get ectopic beats (VPC, PVCs etc) which cause a cardiac contraction, but not a strong enough pulse wave to register peripherally. I'm sure each device has a different threshold for detecting weaker pulse waves. Furthermore, these devices use temporal smoothing - some up to 10 beats at a time. That is why you don't see an instantaneous jump from 60bpm to 100bpm like you would on an ECG. The number is smoothed over time and can result in varying heart rates at any given time.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Interesting, I knew it was smoothed during the signal processing (you might enjoy the video I made with Steve Mould about how the peripheral measurements work! kzbin.info/www/bejne/eHe9qZ-Xqs6trpI ) but I’d not thought of the implications of ectopic beats on that… Presumably the pulse rate is what we’ve measured for decades in studies, because you’d not feel a pulse in the ectopic case?

[@peteracain]

@@DrAndrewSteele Correct. Same with palpating a pulse rate - ectopic beats are perceived as a pause rather than a beat. That's why ECG data is the correct method to assess heart rate. For example I often get my patients to purchase an AliveCor/Kardia device online or other ECG based peripheral (Withings or even Apple watch) to assess if necessary.

[@loganmedia1142]

In practice it doesn't matter, because the previous alternative for people measuring at home was to take their pulse. What I measure when taking my pulse matches what my watch is telling me, so I consider the watch to be accurate enough for its intended purpose.

[@ilTHfeaa]

you tryna tell me when my watch says my hr is 180 it’s actually 190?? 😰

[@xGshikamaru]

Just curious, if there's so much smoothing how do these watches measure heart rate variability? Surely in this mode there's little to no smoothing at all?

[@NilsdeRooij]

Great clear video man! Conclusion; Don’t trust the number, trust the trend… Going up or down indicates more than the actual number. Same for body fat % on scales if you’d ask me :)

[@mausgrau]

Ja thinking the same going up indicates less fitness ore some infektion ? - going down ore staying down : everything ok ?

[@jackroutledge352]

Yeah, body fat percentage scales are a bit of a scam. That's why doctors still use things like waist circumference and BMI for determining if you're obese - there isn't an easy way of accurately measuring body fat percentage.

[@tsmwebb]

My feeling is that the conventional definition is lower quality. 5 minutes of rest just in from a long run probably settles at a significantly higher number than after a short burst of exercise or a previously rested state, etc. Overnight conditions might tend to be more consistent. Maybe?

[@DrAndrewSteele]

This is my feeling too…would be great to have a few more studies to back it up! Sleep seems like a much more consistent physiological state in general… (cue furore from sleep scientists haha)

[@loganmedia1142]

That's probably why we were always told to check our heart rate immediately after waking in the morning.

[@keykeito]

And you can get better data for HR during asleep

[@idontwantahandlethough]

Whenever I go to the Doctor's office, my heart rate is like 20-30 BPM over what it is normally. I don't want to tell them that it's because all the nurses that work there are ridiculously attractive and I'm trying very hard not to say anything too stupid

[@Fehr270]

They aren’t there to date you and giving them bad information will only hurt you.

[@southface06]

There is something called White coat syndrome - you get nervous when seeing a doctor because you are concerned about what he/she may find. You just proposed an alternative explanation, at least for men :)

[@ilTHfeaa]

everyone’s a little nervous getting their vitals taken.. i have tachycardia (fast heart rate) so mine’s always faster. You might just also have rhat

[@DexteruL]

Might also be because of walking, or the simple act of going to a place.

[@mrflyingturtle9447]

How the fuck is someone getting nervous giving bad information. Grow up.

[@fatboydim.7037]

As a Garmin user I know that my resting heart rate is roughly 45 BPM and when I have went into the NHS for a check up they always correlate that my resting heart rate is in the 40's and they ask me if I am an athelete, which I do fitness train, so its not any other underlying cause. I was always told that Garmin has a 10% error factor built in.

[@KindredBrujah]

So Garmin is telling you that is your sleeping heart rate, but incorrectly labelling it your RHR. Add around 10-20bpm to get your real resting heart rate.

[@sepg5084]

​@@KindredBrujah did you even read the part that he went to the doctor and the numbers were similar? 🤦

[@davidbraswell1481]

@@sepg5084 no they are NOT

[@davidbraswell1481]

@@sepg5084 my brand new Garmin can't even get that right!! the Garmin Epix 2 pro 51... only thing its good for is to connect it to a Polar h10 chest strap to get accurate data even the highest gps tracks are shitty. They are so bad they look like a crack head running from law and I am nowhere near builds.

[@KindredBrujah]

@@sepg5084 Wasn't how I interpreted it, but it could be that, yeah.

[@bullman09]

It’s quite hard to believe that there aren’t many YTers doing reviews like these! Everyone makes unboxing videos and reviews smart watches with a general focus on the products promises but no one actually stress tests the features itself. So thank you for making this video!

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Glad to be of service!

[@johnmcgimpsey1825]

I wonder how reproducible each platform is. If I'm working toward getting more fit, I could be persuaded that it doesn't really matter if my indicated RHR is 58 or 48, as long as the trend is headed downward.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

This is definitely the right way to use them! Trends are reliable, even when the numbers themselves aren’t. If you’ve not seen it you might enjoy the previous video in this series where we discuss just that!

[@topaz_climber]

The thing is, a traditional ‘taken by a doctor in an uncomfortable clinic chair’ HR is way less likely to be accurate - no-one is relaxing in that environment. So it might be more true to say “traditional medical science is lying to you about what a healthy HR is”. And it’s easy to verify smartwatch measurements. I’ve done this many times to verify that my ‘slobbed out of the sofa in the evening’ HR of 38 or something is accurate. It is. Just now I’ve just sat on the sofa and confirmed my watch’s reading of 43bpm. Which is actually 2 beats lower that it’s been showing me as my RHR this week and 2 beats higher than my overnight sleeping low. So I’d say the watch is doing a good job, and it’s the doctors who need to catch up!

[@mikewhite955]

My AW telled me 2 weeks after I stopped smoking, that my average resting heartrate was going down from 80bpm to 60bpm, since the day I stopped smoking. That was a really cool surprise. :)

[@thepainphantom]

Congrats, keep up the great work. I have quit it for almost 2 years now and I never feel better in my 40 now. Problem is, my breath is okay but my legs are hurting when I push too much in running and cycling lol.

[@sebbofx]

Is your RHR still lower by 20 bpm? I have heard that after a couple of weeks the RHR is back to the old normal.

[@mikewhite955]

@@sebbofx still around 65bpm :)

[@snithereens]

In the Apple health app, German version, I am told, that resting heart rate is validated for persons over 18 years old and is specifically not monitored during sleeping time. So, which is it?

[@noobiedooby26]

Resting heart and hear rate is a tough number to measure health in my mind. For someone who's numbers are in the 60s while sitting but if i try to monitor it by myself it rises in the 90s. We things called emotions (anxiety) that can alter numbers. So sleeping heart rate seems like a better metric to me.. Mine is like 48-53 while sleeping.

[@supercurioTube]

That was a great video! I subscribed. As Fitbit user for years, I found their RHR an actionable insight linked to general fitness, stress, recovery and stress. And this insight really makes sense comparing to your own values, not someone else's. Then once adding HRV it's even better as the later is really representative of recovery after exercise, getting sick and stress.

[@Xe4ro]

My SE 2. gen Apple Watch doesn't seem to include sleeping data. I'm averaging around from 50 - 60 resting but I have below 50 when i'm sleeping.

[@gownerjones]

4:10 how funny, I had the exact same situation. My apple watch showed a heart rate of like 40 while my normal resting heartrate is around 85-90 (I know, not healthy). I got scared, went to a cardiologist and he literally did the same thing, showed me his own night time heart rate at like 35 and told me to stop worrying.

[@Halbmond]

The video is already a year old, but I know for a fact that in the past, the Apple Watch didn’t (correctly) distinguish between sleeping heart rate and daytime resting heart rate before the sleep mode launched. I used to use a third-party sleep tracking app, and once I started using that, my resting heart rate dropped significantly. When the sleep mode launched, the resting heart rate went back up to a more realistic value again.

[@DerKatzeSonne]

Yup, at least now when using sleep tracking, the Apple Watch doesn't include the sleeping heart rate in the resting heart rate for sure.

[@derksenjenny]

in apple health app, when you look at resting heart rate. its written that' its measured when you are at rest for a couple of minutes. and that its not a sleep measurement. so I think apple is doing a good job. my Garmin epix pro measures during the night. but in my case they provide the same resting heart rate.

[@Kruperfone]

My apple watch was warning me about low heart rate while I'm asleep. I was pretty concerned and consult with my doctor, did some measurements, wore a cardiologist device measuring me for 3 days while logging everything what happens to me. Everything was fine. Later it showed around 40 beats during the day, while I was actively talking and obviously didn't have that low numbers. I'm happy for people who got important warning in time, but for me it gave only anxiety 😢

[@offdagrid877]

My Garmin Epix pro has Garmin newest heart rate sensor and seems to be pretty accurate. When I have occasional been to the hospital and had my heart rate measured I have been asked what I do as my resting heart rate is on average 50bpm or lower if I”m really relaxed. So I believe watch is about right

[@cybermanne]

About 10-15 years ago I measured my resting HR every day to see if I was getting enough rest between running sessions. I also measured in a few different ways just to see how different factors affected it. If I took my HR lying in bed first thing in the morning I had about 5 bpm lower compared to if I got up from bed and wa sitting in a chair. If I measured standing up it was another 5 bpm higher. If I measured later in the day the value would be a bit higher (don't remeber how much off the top of my head) and if I measured relatively close after eating the HR would also be a bit elevated. So lots of ways to get the numbers mixed up. Doesn't really matter how you do it. But you have to do it the same way every day if you want useful data.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

It’s absolutely remarkable how much it varies, isn’t it?! I’ve noticed the same, eg I sometimes take my blood pressure just before going to bed and my ‘resting’ heart rate then is often in the mid-high 40s which is way lower than if I did it earlier in the day. So yeah, totally agree-whether you’re using a watch or measuring manually, the key is consistency of time/situation, and then watch the trend rather than absolutely trusting the specific number…

[@KDEDflyr55]

Garmin uses RHR as the lowest 20 minute average during sleep. They do specifically call out RHR as SHR. The reason you use SHR instead of RHR is that RHR is more affected by temperature, caffeine, stress, activity, etc. But you can isolate those variables during sleep so that you can compare apples to apples and monitor recovery. RHR isn’t very useful for performance monitoring compared to SHR. I use Garmin’s health snapshot in the mornings after waking up to get an accurate RHR with HRV. My RHR sitting on the couch is 49. Sleeping varies from 44 to 50 depending on how hard my training load has been.

[@diegoplanes7183]

Very nice video mate, helps a lot, thank you. These watches are often giving people so much anxiety.

[@BenjaminCronce]

Waking resting heart rate depends on what I've been doing. If I exercised in the past 30min, probably 80. If I've been sitting for an hour, probably 70. If I've been sitting for a few hours, probably 60. If I've been relaxing for a few days, probably min-50. My sleeping heart rate is nearly the same for every one of these situations. Low 50s.

[@loganmedia1142]

How would you exercise before you wake up? Waking resting heart rate would be taken immediately after waking in the morning.

[@cas1652]

I don't want to criticize you or alarm you but afaik heart rate shouldn't be sticky like you describe but instead more or less immediately correlate to your current level of effort.

[@sumitk005]

I have an active lifestyle; I walk 3-4 km a day and try to eat healthy. My Apple Watch gave me Low HR notification while sleeping on 2 occasions which led me to goto ER and get ECG, Echocardiogram, and Holter Monitor done. They all turned out to be normal but it increased my anxiety so much that now I have to take anxiety medication and I am really wary of my heart. Apple Watch is a curse for me. I have stopped wearing it.

[@harism2001]

Exactly what I am going through I swear. Its become hell for me

[@Reclusive247]

Imagine just having a normal conversation while sporting that mustache, as though you're just a real person.

[@Stevenwalks]

So the advice is: buy a expensive health tracker with all it’s metrics and ignore them. Imagine saying at my funeral: “although he had a low resting heart rate, still he didn’t make it”.

[@DarrenChen]

As a data scientist I appreciate the discussion on validation metrics R square!

[@CarolReidCA]

Knowing how and what your watch is measuring your RHR, your ECG, etc. is just as important as your readings. Can you do the Samsung 4 Classic? Thanks!

[@stickskinny1266]

I used to have a Fitbit with a RHR reading 46 bpm for resting. I’m assuming that might be alright since I’m a runner in college but I have wondered the accuracy of it before.

[@ferdinandgleinser2681]

I recently upgraded from a Garmin Venu 2+ to a Forerunner 965 and voila! my RHR jumped from 52 to 63. So you cant even compare the results within one brand unfortunately. For reference: I am sitting here on my desk for hours now with barely any significant activity today and currently my Hr is at about 60, which aledgidly would still put me in the "excellent"" category at age 40. Nevertheless my heart rates are really high when training. Lactate threshold is at about 183 and max HR at 204. So which is it now? am I fit or unfit? its all really confusing

[@wavesnowaves]

Measuring during sleep takes out so many possible external variables. During an especially stressful or active day/week, you will have a high RHR which is quite misleading for your general health/fitness. At least during sleep, you have much more consistency. Garmin, using the lowest 1 min average, seems the most reasonable to me to compare trends over time.

[@Beaumiroir]

Good to know! My Garmin gives me a RHR in the low 50s, but during the day I rarely see it below 60.

[@donaldduck3731]

have you been resting (meaning "doing nothing for ~5 minutes as stated in the video) during the day when you read out the HR?

[@thundercat_pumyra]

I'm still wanting to know how Samsung Galaxy Watch compares to these. Would be nice to get a followup video on that one.

[@artbrutnewyork]

Yes, I had to disable the low heart rate notification on my Apple Watch. It was so unnerving to get that vibrating notification several times a day and even while in bed. I think low heart rate notification is valuable for inactive people, older people or those with known cardiac issues...but it's so common to have a resting heart rated that is well below the standard 60 bpm.

[@f.n.schlub]

As a determiner of cardiopulmonary health, recovery rate from stress to rest is far more instructive.

[@maxulmer5009]

I have an Oura ring and I find the daily measurements pretty accurate after comparing it to a blood pressure cuff at multiple exercise intensity levels. I just take that resting heart rate level and use it as a minimum outlying heart rate rather than an average. I get the concern about the misleading averages though.

[@brayd1778]

I thought I have some heart disease when my Apple Watch showed me that my RHR is at 48-55 when just sitting on the computer and when it's at 40 while sleeping. Turns out I'm just fit because I work out a lot and because my maximum heart rate is at 196 bpm based on several tests which is nice for my age of 25. I also never have issues in terms of dizziness or something like that.

[@Subtlenimbus]

My Garmin doesn’t give the lowest heart rate while sleeping. While sleeping it dips down below 50 here and there, and in the morning the watch says resting is 51 or 52. When I wake up I lay in bed for a couple minutes and watch my heart rate to get an accurate resting rate, and it’s currently around 48.

[@lonwaslien104]

I own none of these devices…now I’m not worried that I haven’t.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Haha

[@andylees8939]

I get night time heart rate in the low to mid 40's - around 44 on non exercise days - and at a recent doctor's visit had a heart rate of 45 when BP was being measured, which is a rate I see often during the day. So it seems that, for me at least, the Garmin is not doing a bad job figuring out RHR.

[@1976Bassey]

Mine seems reasonably accurate. Had a hernia Op 7 weeks ago. They hooked me up to all the machines and suddenly alarms started going off. My heart rate was showing 43, about right for what my watch shows. Although it leapt to almost 50 when all the alarms started going off, until they explained why. Once I told them I was an ultra runner they were fine.

[@KellyWu04]

My FitBit and Apple Watch returned similar resting heart rate measurements. A fun observation of my own health is that my resting heart rate is higher when I’m sleep deprived.

[@noope428]

When I was in the height of cross-country season, my Garmin watch said my heart rate was in the 60s while sleeping, but low 40s when awake

[@YouTroper]

Wow, this title didn't come up to be clickbait. Respect for you.

[@jayy7754]

It makes sense that sleeping heart rate would be a better predictor. If you define resting heart rate as sitting quietly for 5 minutes, that can be anything from sitting quietly in my dark room after my pre-bedtime meditation, to the minutes they left me to wait in the doctor's office waiting to see my doctor. That's a 30 BPM difference on a good day. How can you get a good predictive value from that?

[@stargazerbird]

Don’t wear my watch when I sleep. Easy. Not sure they are as inaccurate as you say. My Garmin if anything puts my rhr higher than what I see rested. It’s tricky to put out content on these trackers. They are regularly updated in software and tweaked to be more accurate and they take time to ‘get to know you’. Comments here suggest they are pretty good. Glad to see you finally got a Garmin.

[@DragoNate]

Now I'm worried either something's seriously wrong with me or with my Garmin watch... When running - and I mean a constant pace I can maintain for 8-15 minutes - my BPM is apparently around 186-198. Idk what the "resting heart rate" is with mine, I just see heart rate that changes constantly.

[@johnkray7352]

So if I never sleep with my Apple watch on, is the resting heart rate measurement going to be fairly accurate compared to the medical standard resting heart rate while awake?

[@ADAMBLAZEVIC]

This was my first thought as well, I don’t want any devices in my bedroom so I take off my apple watch, in fact I take it off around 7 pm.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

I don’t know actually! It would be interesting to test. The week I borrowed the Apple Watch for, I wore it 24/7 for MAXIMUM DATA but perhaps it would’ve given more reliable numbers if I’d taken it off at bedtime… Maybe if I get hold of one again I’ll try it. :)

[@josedp]

I think you are missing the point. I use my smartwatch not to compare "my" result with another human using another brand, BUT to compare (with the same measurement error) today with yesterday... That is very valuable to asses exercise recovery, general health .... SO I can decide how hard to train or even if doing it at all. Many times I did not feel like training, but a non subjective measurement (the resting heart rate) told me I was perfectly OK... therefore no excuses and went training normally. If I broke my smart watch I will buy another one :)

[@rebootcomputa]

As someone that has pretty bad sleep apnea and uses a cpap I don’t think I was told about sleeping heart rate but mainly oxygen saturation which I also think is not very accurate on this type of wearables

[@snubbedpeer]

Another complication to consider is software updates, if you try to monitor your RHR over time is the change you observe merely due to modified algorithms. 🤔

[@CanIHasThisName]

The bottom line is that a wrist based device only estimates all of these values and they’re not suitable for direct comparison between others, especially not between different brands which are bound to have different algorithms. They’re just for tracking your physical training progress.

[@3DJapan]

I use Samsung's Gear S3. It shows me around 54 BPM when I first wake up then usually in the upper 70s and 80s when I'm resting during the day.

[@karlgunterwunsch1950]

I basically ignore the actual value my Garmin watch gives me - except the variance. I found out the hard way (Covid) that the resting heart beat value tracked very accurately the disease progress and my recovery from it.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Mine too, if anything the Fitbit I was wearing at the time _underestimated_ my covid heart rate spike because I think it does some kind of day-to-day smoothing on resting heart rate values… I was amazed how high it went though!

[@fafnirbane]

I have a Huawei GT4 and they specifically state that their RHR is HR while at rest during the day. However, when comparing their measured value to the graphs it's obvious that I never reach that low during the day.

[@andrzejostrowski5579]

Garmin algorithm is described on their webpage. They average the lowest 30 minutes and add some percentage to that, can’t remember exactly. It gives me the result in mid 40s, but it’s not unusual for me to see readings in the mid 30s when I drink my morning coffee. A cardiologist gives me 44, as measured at a visit some time ago. In my case the number seems reasonably accurate.

[@loganmedia1142]

I was always told that resting heart rate should be measured first thing in the morning before getting out of bed. On that basis my Apple Watch, albeit a model from several years ago, is accurate.

[@cczeroX]

Very interesting results. If you use sleep tracking on the Apple Watch it specifically separates between Resting Heart Rate and Sleeping Heart Rate. And for me these are about 10 beats apart and in ranges that make sense and match my expectations (by measureing myself). So for me it does not seems to factor the time asleep into the calculations for RHR. But maybe the caveat is that you actually have to use the sleep tracking feature.

[@TheCharnwoodCyclist]

Exactly, my findings are the same. I think it suggests the video was made without full understanding of the product perhaps.

[@Sintsoij]

As long as it is consistent right? I use resting heart rate as an indicator for how my body is doing when it is trending up or down. Therefore consistency is important. I’m still looking for a video covering consistency/accuracy of wearables.

[@Fomites]

Thanks gentlemen. Very illuminating. Rohin, is that a stick-on moustache? Whatever, I love it! From Australia 😊

[@fromweirdobonawithlove1426]

It would make sense to me that sleeping heart rate is better. I got a medical monitor when I had covid (to watch my Oxygen) and played around with it. My regular resting heart rate was usually 52-55, but by lying down and breathing slowly I could get it down to around 42 and once even to 38 (awake). given that variance, sleep data does sound more reliable

[@TheNewOriginals450]

I have a Garmin Forerunner 55. I've tested it against taking my pulse upon waking for 60 seconds and it's spot on.

[@harshdeeptelang127]

I love you bro! such useful work you are doing my G

[@geometerfpv2804]

My garmin has always been pretty good when compared to traditional "lay down in bed for 5 minutes with the monitor on". I would hardly call it misleading. Taking the absolute minimum it hits during the night is silly for reliability reasons, but I find nightly average coincides very closely with the traditional definition. I am using the top of the line garmin.

[@tangarz5357]

I’ve always wondered if a good RHR is different from person to person. I’ve a really high max (220) hr and do 4 to 8 hours of cardio a week but me sleeping hr is 55 and resting hr is 70 despite being very fit. Is my RHR of 70 still bad or is it only bad if my max was in the 170s.

[@JacksonWelch]

What Fitbit did you use? The google watch takes measurements every second for heart rate so I wonder if that can be more accurate?

[@DrAndrewSteele]

I did this testing with a Fitbit Charge 4, but I’ve since got a 5 and, being a nerd, wore both for a couple of weeks when I got the new one. To say they were identical in every way would be understating it… Not sure about Google watches but my understanding is that they’re very similar too. :)

[@stephenthompson1663]

My resting heart rate right now is 92 bpm, but my FitBit is telling me my RHR is 70bpm, which I’m guessing was while I was asleep. FitBit tells me that I’m super fit for someone my age (73), which I can tell you is blatantly incorrect. Maybe to get a more accurate RHR I have to NOT wear my FitBit while I sleep?

[@Maxjoan]

My daytime RHR as defined by 5min of inactivity changes quite a bit thoughout the day, largely dependent on how long since my last meal (previous exercize aside, of course). So in the early afternoon it will typically be at least >10 as compared to late morning.

[@MrChange28]

I prefer to subtract my lowest heart rate from my maximum heart rate over the day. Divide this range by 6 to get the standard deviation. My estimate of my RHR is then RHR =Lowest HR + 1 Standard deviation. This is based on the assumption that my heart rate will follow a normal distribution. This way of calculating my RHR is more consistent across the various heart rate monitors that I owned.

[@tchevrier]

as I sit here watching your video, I decided to look at my Fitbit Sense. It's reading about 61-62. That's pretty much exactly what it records my resting heart.

[@EatSleepEmpire]

You can check your resting heart rate during the day by stopping for a bit and checking. You can’t check your watch during the night, or during your absolute resting heart rate, so that’s why you should get that reading.

[@bobbynygaardchrisitansen6874]

I am not superfit but each time I go to the doctor they sound quite surprised that I have a low resting heart rate of around 41.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

That is pretty low!

[@cuoresportivo155]

When I exercised a lot, I found my resting heart rate could be lower than my sleeping heart rate, in fact it could be 100-110 for hours while sleeping, only dropping to 60 and below just as I was to wake up. I got down to 41 BPM in the mornings, just sitting at the computer with some coffee. But stop excercising and resting hear rate goes up quickly, after a few months I can't get below 60 anymore. I was doing about 10 hours of cardio per week before, always on the edge between aerobic and anaerobic. My watch just reports the actual measured heart rate, once per hour or when I check manually.

[@descai10]

rates that high during sleep is concerning, might want to get that checked

[@KindredBrujah]

I suppose the follow-up question is - do we factor this difference between resting and sleeping heart rate into our fitness thresholds on the device or has it already done so in its algorithm? How annoying.

[@Fehr270]

The resting hr garmin repots is not the lowest number registered over night, it’s usually a few beats above that as I assume it has to maintain that number for some amount of time instead of just one brief moment.

[@johnwrw]

I think I've read that it's the lowest average HR over a period of 30 minutes

[@brianwakem7258]

Ditto my Garmin Epix Gen 2 definitely doesn't report the lowest number but some sort of lowest average period as it's usually about 2bpm higher than the low.

[@DrAndrewSteele]

I think you’re right about this-when I was looking for info on how Garmin calculates RHR I also found this page support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=F8YKCB4CJd5PG0DR9ICV3A which states ‘Daily RHR is calculated using the lowest 30 minute average in a 24 hour period.’ So it sounds like it is an average, and the lowest 30-minute period will almost certainly be while you’re asleep…

[@tudorm6838]

Some people have problems with their heart rate (too high, too low, or variable), so it is a huge disservice not to show them the rhythm as close as possible to the truth. I had a high pulse after an operation and my Xioami watch said I had 78, and I had 120. In general, the older generations had a latency in presenting the pulse variations, but they were close. Today there is no excuse for major differences. It's just a flaw.

[@JanCronje-r9f]

Why do only a few persons refer to taking pulse rate with your fingers on the artery and a watch? Is this not the most accurate method?

[@iangrant3615]

Garmin is best as they don't charge you a monthly subscription to keep capturing and accessing all your own data. So no reason for them to 'flatter' you by trying to give a lower number. Yes, they may give a total based on night rate, but you can simply look at your own resting heart rate WHILE RESTING rather than relying on the device to give you a total figure.

[@vidhoard]

Very very interesting. Explains why I always thought my resting heart rate was 72/73 before I got a fitbit and it said it was 64.

[@BenjaminWSong]

old school here... I take out my stopwatch, find my pulse, start the stopwatch as I start counting my pulse, stop the watch as the count reaches 30, and divide 1800 by seconds it took to reach 30. May not be able to monitor my heart BPM constantly, but as long as there is a watch, I can measure my BPM.. LOL

[@dygon7663]

My RHR tends to be lowest durning the day, not night. Durning night it'll drop to somewhere between 50 - 55. Durning the day I'll get a RHR between 45 - 50 when sitting behind a computer. People differ.

[@hgrabows]

I don't know if it is still the case but when I was comparing FitBit vs. Garmin RHR calculations several years ago it also seemed that FitBit does a decay function rather than just taking a one day value. This lead to much smoother variations compared to what Garmin would give in times where the RHR was fluctuating a lot. IIRC it was something like a one week smoothing. I'd rather have the day value directly and do the trending myself if I so choose. Again FitBit may not be doing this any longer.

[@godminnette2]

I could have *sworn* somewhere at some point in the Fitbit app told me that RHR was calculated with the first instance of being at rest after waking up; usually the few minutes you're laying in bed awake. Oftentimes if I check my heartrate first thing after waking up (since my alarm is one my Fitbit), I find it's in the low to mid 50s. But after a few minutes on my phone, it's in the low to mid 60s - and this correlates to the number I see when I open the Fitbit app.

[@loganmedia1142]

Then the watch is doing it correctly. Immediately after waking, before getting out of bed, is the best time to check.

[@AlanZucconi]

Just watched this video again today, and made me think about some of the different apps used to measure sleep. They very rarely guess when I'm *actually* sleeping. So the "numbers" are not really to be trusted per-se. But what I think is helpful is that the comparison is helpful! For instance, if one night is stays I slept more than the previous one, that is generally true, even if the actual number of hours are not accurate. So my question is... if we take those numbers as "arbitrary units", rather than "bpm" or "hours of sleep", is that more accurate/helpful to help people getting in better shape?

[@DrAndrewSteele]

Interesting thought! I wonder if ‘arbitrary units’ might be too confusing to non-nerds, but I think emphasising the uncertainty in estimates and telling people to focus on the trend is good. It’s definitely true of sleep-my watches often get the details wrong, but the overall trend is usually instructive.

[@AlanZucconi]

@@DrAndrewSteele By the way, I eventually stopped using those apps because instead of relying on my own internal feelings, I started relying on the app to decide if I had a good night sleep or not. 😅 "I feel refreshed, but the app says I slept 5 hours. So yeah, I kinda feel sleepy now that I think about it..."

[@DrAndrewSteele]

@@AlanZucconi You are not alone! Studies show that people’s self-perceived tiredness can be affected by sleep data, even if it’s faked! twitter.com/statto/status/1635559652799791104

[@casev799]

If my RHR was 35-48 even while awake I'd probably think "hey, that's neat" while also making a doctor's appointment

[@sjoerdeggenkamp4004]

The absolute does not really matter, right? I use it to measure changes.

[@duffman7674]

My Apple Watch is reporting a resting heart rate that is actually pretty close to what it is measuring during the day, while I am sitting at my desk, though it doesn't actually differ significantly from my sleeping heart rate (maybe 5bpm difference)

[@yapvoonyee1778]

I have had to change the alarm level on my fit bit. It was set to alert me if my heart rate was below 50 bpm for 5 minutes. But it does this several times a week. So I have chaged if tro 40 BPM. The nurses suggested that it was because my heart is being slowed down by my medication.

[@Fuperbooper]

So I’m hearing that theoretically if you don’t wear your watch while sleeping, your resting heart rate is more accurate through the app? I don’t wear my watch while sleeping and my resting heart rate seems accurate to sitting still for a few minutes

[@MH-1954]

Thank you for video and I’m glad someone has picked up on the irregularities. All the manufacturers will say their devices are not medical devices but for the vast majority of wearers, sportsmen or otherwise, watch heart data might be the first sign of something needing further investigation. Therefore the manufacturers should have a duty to disclose precisely how their algorithms calculate their data. There is also another issue about how often a watch reads a heart beat and then how often it writes into the graphs etc it presents on the watch or in the apps. They will have the ability to read a heart beat a number of times a second but will then average out for a number of seconds, I believe Whoop is 6 secs, which result is then displayed. For very short intensive sprint intervals I find my watches can give a great variety of readings. This might be worth further investigation.

[@audio_tron]

Using my sleeping resting heart rate, max heart rate by age and the Karvonen method helped me calculate my most accurate training zones, especially Zone 2. Far from perfect to use this method or train by heart rate zones, but it worked fairly well.

[@MrTurtle2829]

Interesting. I use a Apple Watch 7 and do not wear it at night. My resting heart rate that shows on my apple watch is pretty accurate. It shows typically in the 42-47 range. When I am in (college) class, sometimes I just have it on the heart rate app and it will be exactly that. I have done some informal lab tests where I lay down or sit and it will also be in the same range. Laying down typically results in the high 30s while awake and talking.

[@harism2001]

These watches are the biggest source of anxiety for some

[@cianrichards7775]

My Fenix 7 gives RHR of 47. It’s roughly that when I’m sleeping. But it’s saying that it is that now, I’m chilling out on here. Did the old count BPM for 15 seconds and multiply by 4 trick and had 48. So mine is pretty accurate, but is it strange that my sleeping heart rate isn’t lower than my awake resting heart rate?

[@thomaskeenan2208]

Nice to know. Oldie days measured by feel. 15 seconds try a few times see if consistent count. Not convenient but can reasonableness check HRM. Chest straps tend to be more accurate.