On the European order, the Ukraine war, & reinventing heroism | Slavoj Zizek & Yuval Noah Harari

[@timmulder6362]

Can this be uploaded as the entire conversation?

[@justicerie]

Yesss !!

[@ilonabaier6042]

Yes! these fragments are basically useless and threadbare.

[@pkostov86]

Please!

[@pabloflores4869]

I’m with you guys

[@kprabhakar975]

Yes. We will have a continued thought process. However, both are needed.

[@thecount1001]

Harari is right. i live in a medium sized city in BC Canada. i think there are more people around me, than i ever wanted to believe, that are in favour of violence and destruction to support their views. it's very very strange and disturbing, that more people than ever (at least my perception) are perfectly good with bullies and violence as the alternative to compromise.

[@honingbijtje83]

It's sad. But I'm really afraid that t's in the human nature. As I grow older I realize more and more how rare and therefore not normal it is for the human race how peaceful we have lived in Europe for the last decades.

[@thecount1001]

@@honingbijtje83 yes. i thought this was wrong, but i think you're right. people are given to violence as a norm, not an exception. i wish it wasn't thus.

[@space_btwn_notes]

in the us at least a lot of that could be the polarization of politics, and the lack of suitable compromise. Violence is then seen as a justifiable recourse. Also I think it's been generations since americans have been subject to mass violence like vietnam war, so they forget just how bad it can be

[@tonybaretta5221]

There will never be peace, the fundamental nature of existence is competition ie competition for resources thus hatred of the “other” is part of the natural order.

[@honingbijtje83]

@@thecount1001 I wish that too. It makes me so grateful for the time and place I was born in.

[@sebastianb.1926]

It's no longer 2010. Uploading the conversation bit by bit doesn't fuel interest, only disapointment.

[@lukasmolcic5143]

I would say most of the big trends in the world today, and among those this rising appreciation of violence can be traced back to the growing tension between the wide population being disillusioned from having faith in our current system and institutions while we are failing as a society to provide any coherent vision of a different future. The growing dissatisfaction with how things are without a creative and constructive solution can only manifest itself as violence and destruction.

[@clumsydad7158]

yes, people need healthy and authentic work, crafts, futures ... there is no vision

[@MV-vv7sg]

My predictions are that with a number of discomforts crises and errors taking place, some sort of revolution, or great social change, will undergo in order for there to be a fixing of our large social and societal structures. I think we are very much approaching the point Zizek alludes to with Capitalism where it no longer is a paradise and it’s falling apart is near. That is to say the strengths of capitalism are convincing us that it is sustainable, and so we live with it like it is, but it has a waste and byproduct that amounts to a breakdown, that we face I believe. And the discomforts of the people will be guided by the atavistic tendencies to be violent, leading to some messy revolution.

[@thecount1001]

sadly i think you are right.

[@chickencyanide9964]

yeah 100% agreed. This atleats clarifies the real issue, which is our institutions and global system, instead of simply saying the problem is that some people appreciate violence, which to me at least, is quite a superficial argument.

[@predabot__6778]

@@chickencyanide9964 I would say that a certain percent of people really in POWER really do appreciate violence - Putin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Assad - practically every dictator do - and there are many such people in this world -- and yes, I think Trump and a few more of the radical politicians in the USA do belong to this group. Although you're probably correct that a majority of the population never truly appreciates violence, a certain strata of the power-sections of society always will. The prospect of getting to administer and decide on violence is most likely even a factor to them even wanting power in the first place.

[@benlamprecht6414]

Thanks to both for uploading your insightful conversation

[@KingCrimson82]

The Acceptance of violence beyond a disput on a personal level is a secure symptom of mindcontrol.

[@Michelle_Wellbeck]

i love how the video opens by them laughing, like they're having a regular chat at a café

[@mistercohaagen]

Debating is lame. Conversation is king!

[@chickencyanide9964]

this is only a part of the full discussion

[@leonidpopov7056]

You can hate violence, but what did you do to Dick Cheney and George Bush? Why Assange, who revealed their atrocities, is in jail and not them two?

[@Rebelloraptor]

Yuval, your statement was very much on point

[@kelsangbasbelda5675]

-please upload the whole thing together!

[@ericchristopher1687]

Joseph Campbell famously said that people don't seek the meaning of life, but the feeling of being alive. And if they feel that can only be obtained by violent means or extreme acts of other kinds, then where does that leave the prospect of peaceful solutions for a global culture that can both coexist and feel fulfilled?

[@vasilikimanoli9285]

European order and Renaissance values have diminished and seen as naive. Trying to raise our societies to the highest level of "zen state", we have forgotten about the rest of the world. Education seen as a profit driven business model has played a major role in shaping such a world.😢

[@shadowjuan2]

I have long stopped viewing the current Europe as the successors of the Renaissance and Baroque era Europa. Current Europe is in a very, very dark stage, it might sound overblown but I blame it’s degeneracy mostly to pornography and lost Christian values. Of course this doesn’t apply to everyone as there will always be decent people around, but the overall trend is degeneracy, morbidity, it’s sickening.

[@farrider3339]

Very nicely put, especially the part on zen and education. I fully agree. Spiritual quests popularized and unleashed as a means for an improved individual sustain are an unmistakeable sign of decadence and despair.

[@general9064]

Lol as if europeans understand spirituality to establish a zen state, you guys burn down every trace of spirituality. This is more to do with giving leftist education more value and not understanding dharma

[@alschmidt1560]

@@shadowjuan2 -> KALI YUGA !

[@thecoin5394]

There is no such thing as European order. The EU is just a puppet of the capitalist in the US😂

[@timetoflyinthewind6803]

Did you hear about the planet that rains glass sideways. The Elohim are creating a future home for you Yuval you should feel special

[@macdonaldukah1680]

Zizek was a lot more insightful than Harari here. And I'm more than a bit miffed that Harari interrupted him at a crucial moment - when he was about to characterize the American Right's sympathy for Putin's aspirations in Ukraine as drawing partly from their alignment with Putin's cultural conservatism, something which has crystallized into a fondness for him that fuses with their contempt for the liberal cultural elites in America. That bit of insight would have provided further clarity to the enterprise of grappling with the undercurrents of the present moment. Cultural politics is an underacknowledged aspect of what is at stake here. Mainstream liberal elites continue to draw the connection between the emergent, and in some senses already inherent, extremism of the contemporary right-wing and the ascent of fascism in interwar Europe in the first half of the 20th. However, beyond attributing the ongoing wave to the backlash against globalization, there is not enough dimensioning of the why. Another important factor is the acceleration and increasingly convoluted nature of the political goals of the Cultural Left. The American Cultural Left marched into a new frontier territory after it achieved the establishment of a federal licence for same-sex marriages through SCOTUS in 2015. June 2015 was a critical inflection point. Prior to it, America's culturally liberal elites were behind their counterparts not just in the West, but in other parts of the global south with a partial western legacy and claimed heritage, in reaching the frontier of cultural liberalism. South Africa legalized same-sex marriages in 2006; Argentina in 2009. Back then, the idea could hardly be mooted in America. What's followed since is an audacious venture into the arena of what the commentator Wesley Yang has called the "Successor Ideology" - where the objective of social justice movements is not getting the country to end the injustice created by the dissonance between its professed liberal ideals and the travails of marginalized groups, but the repudiation of those ideals themselves - a movement led by a "Successor Regime". This, coupled with the politics of gender fluidity, has put America ahead of the rest of the world on the liberal culture curve. But it also represents the country's Achilles Heel now that its hegemonic primacy is being frontally challenged. In his seasonal diatribes against the West since the invasion of Ukraine, Putin often segues into riffs against 'western cultural decadence'. In so doing, he's being strategically clever. He realizes it's potentially the most effective way to alienate the Global South from the most powerful element of America's (and by extension, the West's) hegemonic power - its cultural dominance. That element has historically been the aspect of American power most people around the world had little cause to resent. The contemporary Cultural Left's political goals, by being too alien to social conditions in the rest of the world, puts America's cultural hegemony at risk. I say this as one who, in in my keen observance of American politics, generally leans towards the Democrats. Zizek especially is spot-on with his build on Harari's theory of the embrace of violent impulses when he diagnoses the conservative tendency to see the present moment as an opportunity to reprise violent heroism amid difficulty, in contradistinction to a sybaritic consumer culture, as a nobler and more ideal state of man. But his call for a "global mobilization" to reinvent heroism doesn't stand a chance if those calling for it are too culturally removed from the broadly moderate preferences of the populations of most of the rest of the world. And certainly not now that they see potential alternatives offered recently by what is the first true challenge to American hegemony in the post-Cold War era. I write from Nigeria.

[@theplmotivationofficial]

You will see decline in meritocracy in western world after wokeism. Aftef few years, people will even identify themselves with animals. Yes there are few cases now also. And that concern most right wing people. And these woke ideas are causes of retaliation. If you speak something against someone, you are cancelled. Ideology is being given more importance than humans. When 80 yr old biden who is hardly concious is leader of a superpower, the world no longer remains safe place. If biden was not in power, russia ukraine war would not have happened. Both trump and biden are in near 80s 😅 superpower is paralysed. There are many small scale wars that have been happening in world from decades. No one talks about them. No one talks about saudi bombing yemen. Everything in this world had become politics. If politics is avove humanity, no one could do anything. People need to debate on matters. And put aside ideologies. If people are dictated by ideologies, they are not free. People only see black and white without recognising grey. People fight for small things.

[@UkrainianLiterature]

We saw it with Chechnya…but Europe was silent then…pretending Moscow didn’t occupy Poland with Nazis in 1939…

[@agorbogytr13]

Slava Z, the triumph of the truth

[@ProfesorTutu]

What is even more alarming for me is the response of ordinary Russians, generally the older generations that have seen the hardships of the 90s and have been fed propaganda for over 20 years, towards Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. I follow this channel 1420 and the responses are striking, from killing each one of them, to burning their babies, and those responses are pretty common. This is extraordinary insight about the spirit of ordinary human beings and the unimaginable and irrational state in which it can be put, given the right circumstances. There seems to be an intrinsic evil lying in each one of us manifesting in cycles between the existential risk of total annihilation and the status quo of peace i.e. finding yourself in a situation where the struggle for survival is absent and with it the substance of being.

[@majaber1]

Russian history is particularly harsh and Russians have been brutalised for millennia by their own leaders and successive invasions, they are perfectly primed to accept atrocities in their names...mind you, look at what the US and the West have done in the middle east...we have our own responsibility to face up to...not to mention the obscene inhumane attempt by the worlds most prominent victims to annihilate the Palestinian people....how easily victims became tyrants themselves...such intelligent people who learned nothing through their own terrible suffering and suppression.

[@lamalama9717]

Zizeks book 'Violence' points out that it is an understandable reaction to the often unacknowledged systemic violence of the status quo.

[@predabot__6778]

@factfindersacademy "Global heating"? Do you mean Global Warming? That's a deprecated term btw - since not every part of the world will experience it as the weather just getting warmer -hence why we say Climate Change instead. (although, yes, in sum-total, the entire atmosphere will contain more thermal energy) Or did you mean something on a sociological scale? How eventually, the global, inter-nation systems of co-operation breaks down, in favour of a "hotter", more aggressive social-climate, in favour of conflict?

[@clumsydad7158]

violence is an answer in itself, as Yuval alludes to, that it's a response giving immediate satisfaction, gratification, posits order, and is the simplest most direct form of power, the lowest kind, the easiest, the most degraded, yet the most recognizable. thus is a world with no plan nor emphasis on higher beliefs, the gun is the easiest, closest, most logical solution

[@MV-vv7sg]

Sounds like someone’s been playing Antike II a little too much.

[@AA-qs4ju]

Nice conversation👏🏻👍🏻

[@KnowYoutheDukeofArgyll1841]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@subimaginos]

"Admiration of violence" is most visible in the USA for decades.

[@alschmidt1560]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 you BET mate !!!

[@RAPPERScantSPELL]

Chechnya, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Jordan, Lebanon, Congo, Chad, Sudan, and I could go on and on and on. If it’s the “most visible” it’s only because US is extremely popular globally, and the others operate in secret

[@clumsydad7158]

fukuyama ... habermas ... whenever someone says something has ended, that's the surest sign it's about to begin ... capitulation to a sense of inevitability is death, and the new generations never accept living in status quos but always are searching out futures ... the key is to present them with healthy options and good lessons, otherwise the same vile and fear driven messes reoccur

[@user-qq33dx8id5ww]

the way this video was cut at the end is really unfair for Zizek. show the whole thing for the sake of the value of this talk.

[@JuanRamiro08]

This is what Nietszche talked about in Genealogy of Moral, the aristocratic moral code saw dominance as a virtue which can be related to what they mean by violence in this conversation. I think for the last 100 years we westerners have been advocating humbleness and kindness as virtues, heroism in a sense. But these values are being challenged today and this is what we should be considering when thinking about the future. Taking this into account, how should we organize ourselves or how will the European geopolitical code should be reformed for the next decades?

[@carlosw1687]

Westerners have been advocating for mass murder, oppression, brutality and complete disregard of freedom, human rights and human life. That is the Western world, such is the Western way of life

[@alschmidt1560]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 Nietzsche fans are the most smartest folks I know !!

[@JuanRamiro08]

@@alschmidt1560 Hegelians are smarter

[@barumbadum]

We need full video.

[@clumsydad7158]

skin in the game,,, be the hero you want to see & meet

[@TheNoblot]

The Principles of Newspeak", George Orwell explains that Newspeak follows most rules of English grammar, yet is a language characterised by a continually diminishing vocabulary; complete thoughts are reduced to simple terms of simplistic meaning. The political contractions of Newspeak - Ingsoc (English Socialism), Minitrue (Ministry of Truth), Miniplenty

[@ergophonic]

I know we're past covid but I'd have given Zizek more breathing space.

[@9ubagurbi6]

it's just chronic sinusitis

[@majaber1]

Your comic styling is cruel ....but sharp...where would we be without humour...bravo.

[@9ubagurbi6]

@@majaber1 not really cruel and sharp

[@ragnarokTVB]

Have you read the book Forth Turning?

[@nikolic-sq5rx]

at last, zizek found someone on intelectual level of his own

[@nikolic-sq5rx]

@Pink Alien but this is a lowest level possible, that is my point, if you missed it

[@vardendela]

Very funny

[@amenostalgique]

There will always be violence as long as there is ego.

[@farrider3339]

Do lions and apes have ego ?

[@alschmidt1560]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍

[@alschmidt1560]

@@farrider3339 Apes : YES - in a CERTAIN WAY ! Lions: NO ! They are only hungry predators . . .

[@farrider3339]

@@alschmidt1560 by the precision of your reasoning and line of arguments I feel tempted to say : *Ego is nothing but hunger in disguise !*

[@thereishope3867]

violence creates violence

[@WattisWatts]

You can be anti war and not pro Putin, Hurari. Wars are fought for real estate, resources, and security investment (money), never for some noble cause.

[@majaber1]

Putin was elected on the promise of ending the conflict in Chechnya as well as creating a stronger democracy with independence....really not much to admire in him ..putting aside the culpability of the West and their war mongering, it might be helpful to open up a conversation about possible alternative global orders - the biggest threat are the leaders in authoritarian governments and the powerful elites who run the rest of the world based on real estate and spheres of influence. Naive maybe but perhaps Zizek is right...global mobilisation of people.

[@nelsonchike4812]

I just noticed, buy has he gotten over his ticks mostly?

[@NilsSF]

I guess Stalin did admire Stalin.

[@alschmidt1560]

🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍And so Putin PUTIN !

[@whatwherethere]

1:35 tell me you have tenure and haven’t worried about eviction or your family abandoning you because you can’t provide for their basic needs in a neocolonialist state. Tell me how you know at least one person who would welcome you on their yacht anytime. You don’t have to like a bully to be happy to see them punching each other in the middle of the street.

[@bradleyreese5156]

Bruh upload the whole thing, stop curating this and farming zizek.

[@Alexander-mr7jq]

We want the whole video!!!😅 🐍 Don't tread on me.

[@waitwhat3148]

3:58 It is inauthentic. Smarmy, passive-aggressive manipulators of every blush and hue can get away with murder while what would have prevented it is institutionally thwarted with unnatural threats of litigation and incarceration. Normal human regulation has been supplanted by bureacracy. The cost outweighs the benefit.

[@weltubergang356]

boring. Zizek never had anything to say.

[@paddykiernanmusic]

How does a threadbare psychologisation like "people just admire a bully" constitute a serious political analysis...

[@majaber1]

I think in this era of increasingly unfair distribution of wealth, disgruntlement disenfranchised people are vulnerable/open to charismatic, narcissistic, psychopathic leaders/bullies who embody their frustration.

[@paddykiernanmusic]

@@majaber1 that's a reasonable analysis.

[@clumsydad7158]

u.s. is the model for imperialism in the world, colonialism, extractionism ... case closed

[@eonether]

Did Harari just say that there are people in Israel thinking violence is good due to the Russo-Ukraine war? ... I mean ... IN ISRAEL

[@EldanSai]

The Israeli army doesn't just wipe out complete areas, but rather it hits targets very accurately to avoid civilian causalities as much as possible. During times of conflict, some people would get angry and say they want someone like Putin who would be more aggressive, but despite Israel going more to the right, it's not the majority of people at all.

[@lsb9073]

No. That isnt what he said.

[@petitgegant9979]

People don't like bullies or criminals or aggressive invading countries, etc. nor they think bullies or criminals or another kind of grunt know how to get things done. They just fear them. Because of fear people don't do nothing or even supports them because they don't want to be their next "target". They just think better the bully bullies another and I will be safe. That's why bullies or criminals or violent invading countries are the worst and that's why we make laws and pay other aggressive violent people (good law enforcers, good soldiers, etc.) to stop them. The problem it's when even with laws and law enforcers nothing is done against the bullies, criminals, etc. Why nothing is done? At least in the particular case of Russia-Ukraine it's very easy to answer: ATOMIC BOMBS. Curse you Oppenheimer, Curse you and your death destroyer of worlds forever. In other conflicts I have no idea why nothing is done but something tells me that the answer is, as always, the only one and true religion of Humanity (for now): MONEY. If the question is why people prefer a violent solution over a peaceful one it's very easy to answer. The violent one it's easier to imagine, to think, to concieve than convince someone you are right and they are wrong. With the violent path if someone doesn't agree with you or you can't convince them they are wrong you just hit them as hard as you can and the problem, the equation is solved. Obvioulsy the violent path has a little problem consisting in everyone ending up death or in the hospital. 2+2=4 Sadly nowadays more and more people don't get it. Sigh.

[@MysteryPuke]

Zizek is so off the mark it's unbelievable. This era without violence has ended? What era? Him coming from ex Yugoslavia should know. What about the violence outside of Europe? In various shapes and forms, not just war. These are just two European educationalists (I know Harari is not European, but defends the same idea) worried that Europe is going to be irrelevant, which already is, and rightly so.

[@PPitambarP]

Europes legacy IS in neglect, though it's primal living ground. Regarding global mobilization - UN?!

[@tolgacan13]

Current oldie Zizek contra Zizek of about 15 years ago (Remember for example, his piece: Did somebody say totalitarianism?). And I prefer much the latter to the former current one, namely, the boring liberal.

[@rodrigomachado5291]

He sold his soul.

[@hazelwray4184]

Absolutely facile

[@infron1]

2:01 I admire Israel's violence against Palestine ) and also I admire the US violence against Iraq, Libya, Syria and etc.

[@virtualsocialretreat8234]

why?

[@infron1]

@@virtualsocialretreat8234 it's sarcasm)

[@virtualsocialretreat8234]

@@infron1 oh.

[@websterlee7708]

BS. People are not encouraging violence. People simply see no clear aggressor and victim in this.

[@missyaman7053]

How the hell can't they see an aggressor here? It's either they're encouraging it or they're dense.

[@websterlee7708]

@@missyaman7053 Well Missy, looking at it from a very different perspective there has been aggression on both sides for a very long time. In those situations everybody blames everybody until all the lines are blurred for those looking from the outside in. Anyone who says they have a clear understanding in this better check their BS at the door. Bad things are happing to innocent people and nobody especially the US is suggesting peace.

[@farrider3339]

​@@websterlee7708 And Putin does so neither !

[@missyaman7053]

@@websterlee7708 oh, that's very interesting, websten. When has Ukraine invaded and threatened to annex Russian Territories again? When has the ukr government publicly announced russia isn't a "real country"?. When have they planted and armed separatist grps to the point when Russia had to fought them back and ukr cried about "nazim". Since, both are equally "bad" in your book then , I would like to see prove of them both commiting the same atrocities, cuz it seems like you're simply just re-narrating Putin's propaganda.

[@websterlee7708]

@@missyaman7053 Missy, are you watching CNN?

[@ragnarokTVB]

Hard times creates strong men. Strong men creates easy times. Easy times creates weak men. Weak men creates hard times.

[@arcabuz]

Zizeks speaks always as if he had a chronic allergy reaction

[@JimiHL]

Humans are apes. Apes fling their poo. Humans fling their poo

[@Saarsalem]

Am i the only person that finds it hard to get through slavoj interviews? I dont mean to be disrespectful but whatever his condition is, it irritates me and repulses me to listen to all those sounds. Im sorry, i realize im being disrespectful by pointing that out. Whats his condition anyway?

[@hiwayshoes]

I think he is experiencing sinusitis. And yes, it does make for difficulty when trying to listen to his speech... Cheers!

[@Sara-hy4jx]

It's a nervous tic

[@scottkeeler2306]

The fact that his handlers allow this tripe to saturate the online world is beyond ridiculous. A view so full of hatred that he’d like to enslave 95%of humanity. There is no excuse for patronizing this craziness.

[@virtualsocialretreat8234]

uh... are you talking about zizek or harari? i've never heard either suggest anything like the enslavement of 95% of humanity, i must be missing something

[@scottkeeler2306]

@@virtualsocialretreat8234 yeah you missed something. I can’t find it for you but it looks like you may be missing kindness, compassion and a relationship with Jesus Christ and perhaps somebody who isn’t partnering with the WEF as a NWO shill. Unless you prefer the hive mind of transhumanism.

[@KnowYoutheDukeofArgyll1841]

​@@virtualsocialretreat8234 Try listening to Harari speak at the WEF's meetings at Davos, on the future of humanity. He is a huge advocate of what he calls "transhumanism". Pretty evil stuff.

[@francisstjohn2194]

American o Russian bulling? What you mean? Enough with Youval's hypocrisy and reality distortion.

[@Calligraphybooster]

Szschlisjschlecs ‘snot wrong here!

[@julianwoodcock4309]

Slavoj Zizek seems very agitated by the whole subject. I'm not surprised.

[@teresabarrett3266]

This man’s mannerisms make me nervous 😮

[@carlosw1687]

How wrong is harari.

[@gwm_john]

LOL what's wrong with that guy 😂😂😂

[@philkariuki1109]

Just shave off your head yuval. Lol

[@WendyKroyy]

At the neck

[@rodrigomachado5291]

@@WendyKroyyyes.

[@cosmos99ify]

Well done putin.

[@alexgordon6722]

Seek the creator Jesus Christ.

[@silence8806]

"Religion poisons everything." - Christopher Hitchens

[@thecoin5394]

​@@silence8806there was no such thing as religion, it is a modern concept. Did Jesus invent Christianity?

[@silence8806]

@@thecoin5394 A claim and a question. Your claim, that there was no religion is very wild. Either you have a very special idea about what a religion is, you have no idea about history or both. And your question regarding Jesus is as wild as your claim. We don't even know, if there ever WAS a Jesus. What we know is, that people believed and still believe in supernatural stories around a Messias. Even today, about 95% of the people worldwide believe in supernatural stories like this. Call it religion or not. It does not matter. What matters is the ideas that come with these stories and the actions that come out of these ideas, cause people identify themself with it.