Z Review - Schiit BiFrost Multibit DAC

[@TheRoshan89]

"if you're getting a dac higher than a certain value, it's either doing something different for the sake of being different - or it's doing something wrong." -Z One of the best audio related quotes EVER

[@LynnXternal]

That is a pretty good summary of "high-end" audio equipment. Hearing it from someone who isn't an EE is refreshing.

[@haris525]

Dude the reason you aren't hearing the difference is because you are not using 400$ USB cable, 1200$ power cable, generic Rca cables instead of the ones forged from iron extracted from an imploding star. Oh yeah also forgot your files need to be in qbits, regular bits aren't audiophile enough!

[@stuckinthepast]

exactly! I immediately unsubscribed after realizing he wasn't willing to spend money on untapped tone!!!

[@MosoKaiser]

+haris javed Don't forget cryo treatments and ambient field conditioners!

[@krishtrinity]

maybe he should harness the power of the tesseract to power those USB cables..

[@arielmendz]

+haris javed And you forget he is using Windows! True audiophiles use iMacs. Get your shit togeter Zeos!

[@djmaxtrim]

Audiooquest Diamond Plus Nordost Heimdall For The Win!

[@nikonman1]

I have been getting deeper and deeper into headphone audio over the last year to year and half. Starting with a Teac portable dac/amp and upgrading to the modi/magni uber stack, adding the little dot I+ and tinkering with tubes and opamps, then moving to the Jotunheim with DAC. At the same time, I've gone through several headphone upgrades, starting with the T50rpIII's, to the AKG K7xx, the TH-XOOPH, and now the Audeze LCD-3's. I have had a lot of buyers remorse in that I have struggled to hear significant differences in sound with each purchase. A couple weeks ago I got the Bifrost multibit, and have to say that I hear more difference and improvement in sound quality than with any previous gear acquisition. To each his own. I'll likely be purging some gear soon, but the Bifrost will stay.

[@bigyeetus2866]

Yup, I found it to be quite an obvious upgrade, more so than an amplifier, but whatever, if everyone wants to think it's snakeoil and pat themselves on the back for owning an apple dongle, be my guest, doesn't affect me.

[@krishtrinity]

this video definitely pissed off some audiogeeks out there...

[@ZReviews]

+KrishKrusher Im stocked with food and supplies. My next video was going to be my review of the M50x but I think a slight delay is appropriate.

[@krishtrinity]

+Z Reviews all they will do is possibly scream insults to the computer screen.Don't delay the review just because of so called audiophools(saw the word in one of the comments)..I am one of the fools who believe and hear 24 bit flac is better than mp3..

[@TheAtqthe30th]

+Z Reviews M50x I like but when it comes to soundstage in other stuff like gaming they're not the best. I hate the proprietary cable system. Could you possibly show an alternative/work around to use your own cable to work with these headphones?

[@ZReviews]

+Atqthe30th Well cutting and soldering is something I can suggest to anyone. It is just a matter of talent after that.

[@Nick-s-f]

+Z Reviews I'm gonna grab some popcorn when the M50x review comes up. I had one..god it had such lifeless midrange, buried behind a wall of bass and stabbing highs. Opposite of fun.

[@richardriley4415]

You are one of the FEW reviewers who tell it like you see it. Nearly all are just pimps for the industry.

[@DeadEyeSprout]

+Richard Riley I'm glad he laid it out like it is and I'm the one who sent it to him lol.

[@reesercliff]

+Snuss a least it looks way cooler than my ODac

[@DeadEyeSprout]

+Cliff Reeser It is a beautiful piece of aluminum that looks really impressive with the Asgard 2 on top if I do say so myself.

[@Sean-tn5nv]

What did you come from bud? Could you tell a difference?

[@DeadEyeSprout]

thesean 5 I used to use a Modi 2 Uber. In my opinion, the Bifrost MB really shines with with string instruments and vocals. They just sound a lot more present in the room when listening.

[@jjwamwthwaw]

I have had an ODAC from JDS Labs for years now (big fan), and just recently replaced it with Schiit Bifrost Multibit. There is a huge difference between the two in my opinion. Maybe not a difference that everyone would prefer, but undoubtedly different. Setup is PC(USB) --> Bifrost/ODAC --> Saga --> Vidar --> Vandersteen 2C spkrs . Lots of characteristics are different, but I would say most significantly is that the Bifrost has more high-midrange emphasis.

[@SolomonLi]

This is totally getting into the realm of diminishing returns. Thanks for the review. I'll stick with my ODAC + O2 combo and my Centrance Slim... until they crap out or I hit the lotto.

[@mrendall90]

Would love to see an A/B between the Bifrost and the Modi

[@Macc_]

Take it a step* further and A/B the Modi and Yggdrasil. *the maximum amount of steps further

[@davidhaggerty9850]

There are tons of things that go into an audio chain, many of which don't even have anything to do with the recording or equipment. There's always the issue of bottlenecking at the weakest point in the chain which can range at any point from the quality of the recording itself, to the codecs used, to the drivers, to the equipment, to the ambient temperature, to speaker distance, angle, height, ear canal shape, low O2 saturation, electrolytes, etc..... I believe you when you say the difference is indiscernible. People who disagree, probably have never done a double blind comparison to verify and are experiencing placebo effect based on mathematical differences that are imperceptible to a human.

[@mikecees815]

Contrary to what you might think - you're better off comparing DACs through a good set of speakers than through headphones. That's why you're finding that all DACs sound the same. That being said - don't expect the differences to be night and day unless the rest of your system is super revealing.

[@DaBurntToaster]

z, the only reason your not hearing a difference is because you diddnt spend buy $1000 usb cables i mean seriously man, what were you thinking?

[@aaronwong1977]

For what it’s worth, I find it much easier to tell the difference between various gear with speakers than with headphones.

[@vannk73]

A Public Service Announcement for the audio community.

[@krishtrinity]

schiit modi will satisfy 95% of music lovers out there...5% loves their audio gear more

[@inho5737]

i love them both equally i fucking love music (i have the 7 records that i hang on the walls and am constly looking for msuic for my digtal collection) and im a tech geek so i just look at very expensive gear and just want it to look in side to say i have it to mod it (if its headphones) i even like the lower end gear i just like the gear

[@stevenlevel7208]

I agree 100% with your statement!

[@DrFearCo]

KINGDOM K I’m totally ok with that too. If people like high end expensive shit that is great. By all means spend your money. But don’t lie to yourself or others. Tell it like it is

[@echtogammut]

Great review. It would be pretty easy to build a rig that would compare the output of both DACs, but I doubt most people can hear the difference between DACs unless there is something wrong with the engineering. I have been building my own DACs just because I like having certain features (like auto-off) that can be missing on some DACs. It's just the sad truth about a lot of audiophile gear, there is a lot of voodoo being sold to people who desperately want magic.

[@peraxelhagne1400]

I noticed that you listened to a cowboy bebop track, great stuff! Btw, you should make a list with high-end recorded albums, that'd be great. I appreciate your stuff

[@RAMtrails]

my head exploded trying to follow your setup! Thanks for the vid

[@isaacshemp901]

I agree with your opinion on DACs. I've had a Bifrost and Uber upgrade for about 2 years. I have no desire to get a replacement DAC. If anything I'll continue to get new headphones, amps or new tubes.

[@bski3628]

I just bought a gen 1 bifrost with the usb I am hoping it is better than the Cambridge audio unsampling dac I am using which I do like

[@editorwizard1]

I believe Schiit recommends using a USB 2.0 cable into the Bifrost Multibit. Although my experience is limited, I've never seen a USB 2.0 cable with ferrite beads like the one shown in your review.

[@RemX405]

My opinion is that hearing is an integrator function. The difference appears with time.

[@antunkatona]

Multi-bit convertors were replaced by delta-sigma modulators for a good reason. They measure better as delta-sigma ones tend to be more accurate at low-level signals. Still, I have to say I am amazed at how little knowledge there is on these matters and yet everyone is talking about it. The truth is, the digital section of a D/A convertor is the least important part and literally all modern convertros,no matter the price, yield very good or excellent measured performance. That is not to say all of them sound the same and nothing could be farther from the truth. More expensive convertors have more elaborate power supplies and these cost a lot more to make than the digital sections used for the actual conversion. They also make a far greater difference. The end component of a high-performance D/A convertor would be the output stage and again, this costs a lot more than the digital section. So even if Schiit and Emotiva have different digital sections, their power supplies and analogue stages aren't entirely capable of producting an audible difference. In the case of Schiit, I think the multi-bit "comeback" is a marketing gimmick rather than an emergence. They possibly wanted something to differentiate their product from the others, not because it was required for specific techical reasons. It made the product more expensive and as you pointed out, not at all discernable fro the other product. Cheers and sorry for any typos!

[@TechnoGuy11]

I can hear a difference between my Modi 2 Uber and my Modi Multibit and the Mimby is definitely better. The big difference between the 2 is that the Multibit has a fuller sound with more weight to it which gives it an analog feel and that's well worth the extra $100 IMO. Maybe it doesn't get much better with the Bifrost Multibit as they share pretty much the same architecture from what I see. I'm a believer in the Multibit now and I'd love to hear the Multibit versions of the Gungnir and Yggdrasil.

[@jeremysmith3556]

is it bad that I'm addicted to your videos?

[@ZReviews]

+SecondVerse Nope. Unless you have a small child you are neglecting.

[@jeremysmith3556]

Nope I'm good

[@reesercliff]

+Z Reviews oh shit I knew I was forgetting about something...

[@andrescardeli9182]

What about a big child?

[@martinzhang5533]

Hi Z, is there any chance you may do a review for the modi multibit? It seems that the modi multibit has basically the same topology as the bifrost multibit, but is only priced at 249$.

[@SubjectZero1337]

I watched this review, didn't get upset, and bought a Bifrost Multibit, as it was on my list regardless - upgrading from a Modi 2. I don't think Z was lying, but it's very possible his setup didn't care. It's practically a night vs day difference from my Modi 2, I couldn't be happier - my headphones have a signature now I didn't know they were capable of. Wyrd > BiFrost Multibit > Heavily modded Bottlehead Crack + Speedball > Sennheiser HD 800 S's

[@taiefmiah]

He probably didn't let it warm up. In DS dacs, warm up doesn't matter unless you have a transformer. Multi-bit Dac chips are resistor ladders and you have entire networks of resistors only in there, way more than a DS dac. The thing about resistors is that they are temperature dependent, so they will change their resistance according to the temperature, meaning that warm up is making active changes to the circuit.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Sounds like you and your set up are more qualified to do reviews than this guy.

[@slowmopoke]

Here's the chip breakdown: Model - DAC chip (quantity) - #bits Yggdrasil - AD5791BRUZ (4) - 20bit Gungnir - AD5781BRUZ (4) - 18bit Bifrost - AD5547CRUZ (1) - 16bit

[@JTCPingas]

What about the Modi Multibit?

[@pierocostanzo4959]

Currently owning 3 dacs: MF V-DAC II (Burr Brown), Meier AUDIO Daccord (dual Wolfsons) and Audiolab MDac (Sabre 32), I can tell you that they do have different sound signatures, where a good dac must be as neutral as possible, is up to the analog stages to colour and characterize the sound.

[@DavidTheCatMedia]

This is an excellent and thorough review. I love this more scientific approach and I'd love to see you continue that approach in the future. If I had to fault your methodology, matching volume levels by ear is not ideal-- you really want to get your two signals within a quarter dB of each other, which is hard to achieve by ear. (Source: I read it on the Internet so it must be true.) However, if you used your headphone recording rig to measure volume, you'd have both DACs going through the same amp to the same headphones, and you can tune the emotiva DAC until the measurements from your microphones were the same. Be sure not to disturb your recording rig, as even shifting the headphones around a little bit on the rig would require you to start the levelling process all over again. Note: really this is me being nitpicky, your methodology is already far, far better than 99.9% of other equipment reviewers out there. Great stuff! If you really wanted to, and were willing to do some basic coding, you could automate the physical switching using an RS232-controlled relay board. I've worked with such equipment before. If you wanted to be really anal you could make sure each individual path through the relay board has the same impedance as well.

[@bdw5821]

Thanks for the review Z! The hot keys for WASAPI push helped me figure out a way to compare my XDA-2 to my Yamaha CX-2000 built in DAC.

[@白海塔]

I think the only comment worth writing after hearing the OST from Oblivion is:"Fuck you Sally".

[@francoguinard8890]

"I love schiit, schiit is great. I rub that all of my body, all the time" liked.

[@overnightdelivery]

Sorry Z. You didn't listen to WAV in 128-Bit 200Ghz sound quality.. so this review is null and void. ;)

[@themadkraken1912]

Peasant. I simply blast music from a 2020a hooked up to 12 inch mid drivers directly into my ears and shovel the blood coming from my eardrums into my mouth to *T A S T E T H E S O U N D*

[@OriginalMindTrick]

There could be some explanation here. I myself did a switcharoo test between two dacs, the built in dac in the Sennheiser HDVD and the Resonessence Labs Invicta (4000$) using a HD800 and the difference was clearly noticable everytime you switched but on a whole minor. Invicta was a little better when it came to detail, soundstage and had a bit more warmth. The difference was so small that it's no way in hell the sonic improvement is worth that much money. Anyway It could be that you need a microscope like the HD800 to be able to hear any difference at all. You also need the right type of music files. FLAC really doesn't say anything about the qualities of the recording. Also, a detailed head amp is a clear plus if you want to hear nuances easier. If anyone out there want to be wise about spending your money on headphone gear, spend the largest chunk on your budget on the headphones. Then I would try to find a really good synergistic cheapish amplifier for your headphone. The HD800 and a lot of others high end headphones absolutely loves vintage receivers like the Yamaha CR-620 you can find under 100$ or even 50$. It gives it body, solidity and at the same time keeping all the detail, clarity and soundstage you are after. The headphone section on this 70s receiver betters everything I've heard in headphone amps under 1000$ and rivals or beats some costing a lot more for my own preferences. If you live in the US I've heard a lot of good things about Concept receivers driving headphones. Even cheap NAD stuff play good with the HD800. They do have a little of that hifi veil, but if you want the HD800 mellowed out it's a descent choice and clearly a better choice than say a Schitt Vali or O2. The age of these things makes them liable to breaking down or having degraded sound though. It can be fixed but at a pretty price sometimes. IMO clearly worth it as these go up in price over time which is the opposite of most modern gear.The find a DAC you feel comfortable spending money on. You can get good stuff these days costing a 100 bucks. You can also find amazing stuff costing 500 bucks like the Chord Mojo. The biggest not so secret is to perfect your headphone rig with the right DSP. The right software can make as much of a difference to the overall sound as your hardware combined. With free tools like EasyQ and TB Isone you can change both frequency response , soundstage and imaging. Highly recommend TB Isone.

[@k.-flynn]

It made me happy that someone else thinks the Oblivion soundtrack is great. Good review as always 💯 👌

[@Fuogor]

+K. Flynn Jeremy Soule is my man, man. I've been running the Morrowind soundtrack a lot lately myself.

[@k.-flynn]

Micah Bode i cant tell if this is sarcasm or not

[@SylvexDragonskin]

+K. Flynn Ye it's good :)

[@nextlifeonearth]

+K. Flynn It doesn't seem like sarcasm.

[@rustie115]

+K. Flynn Why would you think that's sarcasm? Are you talking about the movie or the game?

[@Seconds84]

I'm so glad your calling this out, so many people wasting so much money and audio equipment that is so overpriced for no reason.

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

Joseph Norcott This just isn't true but I'm glad the money you saved went toward YOUR education.

[@robertorodriguez2609]

I remember the musical fidelity dac for a couple of thousands, I couldn't hear the difference with my hundred bucks dvd player and a nad cd player. months ago i got a ten bucks dac in amazon and sounds the same as my oppo dvd-cd player, just lower volume. the high-end audio industry is just a big rip-off, but we sure love the toys.

[@lvaruzza]

Would be I interesting a comparison between the bifrost and the modi

[@DeadEyeSprout]

I've had this Bifrost for a week now. And it sounds incredibly good. I think it sounds amazing with stringed instruments personally. But I don't have an array of DACs to test it against. Sound a hell of a lot better than my computer's soundcard though. Haven't been able to listen to any 32 bit recordings yet but I would actually love to do an A/B test with the Modi II Uber. Thanks for the review Zeos, and those awesome rubber feet....and I just realized this may become one of the most controversial HiFi equipment reviews ever hahaha

[@jjjdgd5]

+Snuss Hi what is your motherboard?

[@DeadEyeSprout]

Asus Impact VII

[@jjjdgd5]

Hi, this one Asus ROG - MAXIMUS VII IMPACT ? She seems to have good audio in it

[@DeadEyeSprout]

+jjjdgd5 exactly, it was just "good." Imo the Bimby sounds great in comparison. The main issue is that the Asus motherboard has so many effects added onto the signal

[@deepu4puppy]

man...you are so f...ing straight and frank ..would love to see all the reviewers learn a lesson or two from you ..and man are u humourous.theres never been a video of u where i did nt laugh my ass off.grt going..keep em coming..

[@Jossienheimer]

in otherwords: what you are buying is either A) pretty expensive snake oil B) features/inputs, C) both (but mostly snake oil)

[@butchpatchell6512]

I have transitioned from direct audio out of my laptop to an Audioquest Dragonfly to the Bifrost Multi. The Dragonfly improved the audio noticeably. The Mutlibit improved upon the Dragonfly to a larger degree than the Dragonfly improved on the PC. Are you saying that I should/could have saved $400 by spending just $200 to get to the end game? Edit: . I'm using the Schiit Lyre 2 amp with Sennheiser HD-650 headphones. I've discovered that I prefer the Bifrost for Pop/Rock music. The DragonFly is my preference for Jazz/Classical music. The DragonFly, to my ears, is superior to the Bifrost with non amplified music, whereas the Bifrost has the impact and slam required for Pop/Rock. Voices sound more natural through the Bifrost. Bifrost rolls of at the top, making it sound smoother and less harsh with some recordings. The DragonFly, by comparison, is the more analytical of the two. Which DAC is better? Depends on what you're listening to.

[@mat.b.]

Definitely the only review I've found on the internet that said there's no audible difference between the Bifrost multi and cheaper DACs

[@theodoro89]

You probably didn't hear a difference because you used a cheap USB cable.

[@zeke937]

Lol.

[@ZReviews]

+theodoro89 I was going to upvote this because I get the joke, but someone not knowing might think that was actually a reason and buy an expensive USB cable.

[@zeke937]

+Z Reviews Thanks so much for your review. I appreciate you telling it like it is and not falling for all the bs the audio industry throws at us. I see too many "reviews" that end up sounding more like an ad than an actual "review". I have no doubt that the parts are quality, but it's our ears that won't be able to hear much if any difference so why fork over extra? On another note, I've been bored by my HE-560 and been looking to change. I like a fun sound that's still quite accurate with a nice sound stage. Anything out there you'll recommend or am I better off getting speakers? Your review on the Studio 530's has peaked my interest in looking at some quality speakers, the Kef Q300A or even the X300A with the subwoofer mod as found on (www.sunaudio.com) are something I'm potentially interested in. Please let me know your findings.

[@nervouspooper]

+Zeke If he doesn't respond you might be able to contact him more directly through reddit. This is his account: www.reddit.com/user/ZeosPantera

[@TheNotoriousGamer]

I have had quite a few DAC's, and everything Zeo's experienced is spot on. My first audiophile quality DAC and amp was a Xonar Essence ST. Then I upgraded to a Muscial Fidelity V90, and now have an Emotiva Stealth DC-1. They all sound identical, which is good because they sounded great. I actually A/B'd the DC-1 and V90 just like Zeo's, and no difference at all on my very nice speaker rig. I even A/B'd a Monoprice DAC and the only difference was better bass on the DC-1. I bought the Stealth DC-1 because it had a crap load of features just like the XDA-2. The Bifrost has no features yet costs more.

[@MarshMellowChronic]

makes me want to put all my gear in the bin and use 10 dollar earbuds

[@agentorange8530]

+Zombie Jesus lol yeah, I'm feeling that way too after buying bunch of DAC, AMPS and Headphones.

[@andynguyen1148]

finally a review thats raw! just stumbled across this channel. Subscribed

[@jonathankelly5997]

It couldn't possibly be that the limiting factor to what you can hear is the amp you're using ... ?

[@ZReviews]

Doubtful. I trust that amp. I trust my headphones and I mostly trust my ears.

[@jonathankelly5997]

Trust? I thought you were all about testing. :) Have you tested the amp section of the X1S against ... something else? Trust your ears sure, and I trust you were hearing what you were hearing, but what were your ears hearing: the DACs or the Amp? It's just that the X1S *retail* for $369 - how much of the actual cost do you think was dedicated to the amp section ... I'd guess less than half went into the DAC. That's not a lot ... It just seems that it might have been a more reliable(?) test if the amp hadn't been trying to be anything more than, well, an amp. Not saying you had an agenda or anything ... I do like your reviews; I'm almost a fan. :) Just seems hard to credit that the Schiit guys would do that. Disclaimer, I am a Schiit fan - own a Gungnir DS.

[@shinymcshine79]

Jonathan Kelly This is a very good point. The concept of the test is good. But is a bog standard desktop DAC/amp the right equipment to confidently declare that multibit is a scam and that all DACs past $200 all sound the same anyway? I'm not talking "This test is void cos you didn't use a $2000 snake oil power cable". I'm​ saying that's it's not unreasonable to suggest that the fairly sweeping conclusions the reviewer has come to are tainted by the use of an amp that is literally only the next step up from plugging your cans into the jack on your PC. For the record I own a Little Dot DAC, a Lyr 2 headphone amp and some LCD2s I got second hand on eBay. I am not a elitist audiosnob.

[@SamualWilliams]

Once you hit $100, DACs sound almost identical. Upgrade your headphones before you try and upgrade your DAC (unless it's a sub $100 DAC).

[@DueM]

lol its more like 800-1000 nzd, i own three. best bang for buck brand is topping in my opinion. they make very nice dacs for a small sum.

[@kkfarmedkk]

Even with headphones, you pay a premium for the last bit of performance. The difference between a $1000 headphone and $3000 is... That there might not be much improvement at all, just different sound. So yeah, DAC is the last thing you should think about unless your wealthy.

[@geoffreyalter5016]

Samual Williams I disagree that after $100, there is no difference. I had the Deckard which I thought sounded great until getting my Metrum Musette. There was an audible difference. Significantly improved... Some sound very digital and some analog. Some bright, others warm. And on and on.

[@SamualWilliams]

Geoffrey Alter Yeah I actually disagree with what I said too.

[@geoffreyalter5016]

Samual Williams the more I try stuff, the more I am learning the differences. I personally don't like delta sigma DACs, and have gravitated to NOS, for a more analog sound without the loss of transparency. There is a difference between the Bifrost multi and the Gumby. How it pairs with the right amp matters a lot as well. None of it sounds good without the right headphones. Completely agree with you on that.

[@vaporainwaves]

Heck, I can't tell a difference between 44.1bit and 192bit. It only matters if you record things in analog, mix soundtracks up and record it with other dac.

[@butchpatchell6512]

+babusiaN1 There are VERY FEW audio files with resolutions greater than 44/16. The only way to get true Hi-Rez is to record directly in Hi-Rez. Taking a 44/16 file and 'remastering' to 24/192 does not change the fact that your still listening to 44/16. Anything above the original recording's resolution is filled in with digital zeros. Note to ThoseWhoStayUoFM: pinochle is a card game. Pinnacle is I think what you were trying to say.

[@vaporainwaves]

+Butch Patchell Very true.

[@brianpacheco1927]

babusiaN1 all the 24 bit does is gives the musician extra breathing room to record sounds that are inaudible but provide an extra sense of air and depth at the very highest end of the spectrum (past the 20khz audible range).

[@super_salty9189]

I absolutely agree with this. Once you get past a point in DAC's they make very little difference and almost no discernible to the human ear. I would more focus on the difference amps and pre-amps make to the sound. Never mind the difference headphones or speakers themselves make to the sound.

[@BeeRad777]

Thanks for making this review. I usually watch your videos before making a purchase. Thank again much appreciated.

[@hanfengwang6777]

I have both BiFrost Multibit and modi 2 uber. I also uses Dynaudio bm compact mkiii monitors. The improvements are obvious. The sound is more beefy, the sound stage is bigger, the imaging is better, the vocal is more natural and the overall sound quality is improved. I don't understand why you can't hear any difference.

[@ZReviews]

+Hanfeng Wang Have you A/B'd like I showed here and if you did have you verified with a multi--meter the output voltages are the same?

[@Jebattucnaka]

+Z Reviews why the fuck would he need any of that

[@xSilentxKilllerx]

Jebattucnaka if you don’t know why you don’t belong here.

[@Thoughtflux]

Anyone has an impression between this original Bifrost multibit and the Bifrost 2? How much better is the 2 over the multibit? I have a 3 year old new Bifrost and I'm like... How much am i losing out on.

[@Bawrabawla]

Is It possible that redoing this with the STAX may produce different results (given they are faster)

[@ZReviews]

Anything is possible.

[@Bawrabawla]

Responding to a comment on a year and a half old video... you sir are hardcore.

[@djchips]

Holy shiit Z, just did an A - B test with my Bifrost Multibit and a new Modi 2 Uber... Didn't hear a noticeable difference at all with any of my headphones. I feel kind of stupid now, damn you head-fi!!!!

[@ZReviews]

Great, now we will both be banned. #BUYEXPENSIVEAUDIOCABLES

[@djchips]

Late reply but when browsing threads about the Bifrost MB, a lot of voodoo-esque stuff was being thrown around. Things like "thermal equilibrium after 5 hours" and "2 week analog burn-in" and "organic, analog sound". Maybe I should have bought some Machina Dynamica Brilliant Pebbles with some expensive audio cables..

[@taiefmiah]

D J how is thermal equilibrium a voodoo term? It’s a resistor based dac which uses an r2r ladder. Temperature is intrinsic to resistance as it directly affects the resistance of a resistor and even more so that of an r2r ladder. The thing becomes a different circuit until you reach thermal equilibrium because at that point the temperature remains constant. The notion of organic sound becomes relevant when you listen to an hd700 and hd600, the 700 may technically be better, but it sounds like you are in a fish bowl. It’s a tonal thing.

[@TeamRetroWorld]

Don't waste your money on a new set of speakers, you get more mileage from a cheap pair of sneakers...

[@fredrickjpourvous1703]

Shockingly honest! I've been waiting a long time to hear someone say what I've alway thought to be true for some time now.

[@whocares0503]

I bought a Bifrost and Lyr combo around 4 years ago when they came out. Last July my Bifrost went nuts on me and I had to send it in for repair under warranty, just for the record the people over at Schiit SHINE when comes to customer service... At that time I upgraded to a gen 2 USB and the Uber upgrade. I actually noticed a difference with my Senn HD600s (btw we met at the Phila Head-fi Meet! You saw mine and said they were so ugly you painted yours yellow! I loved your set up, it really rocked and I heard some GREAT things out of your cans as I just ordered the Fostex on Massdrop!) I was wondering what to do about an upgrade as I have the original Lyr and the Lyr 2 has some features I could REALLY use. They now have an output for no gain so I can use my speakers and headphones ( I use Emotiva 4S powered speakers) I guess what it comes down too is I should save my money on the DAC upgrade and save for a new Lyr. I only considered it because i heard a difference the last time I upgraded. I have read the the upgrade to the 4490 is a real difference but one has to wonder about that too... Thanks for the GREAT review!

[@ZReviews]

+whocares0503 Features are where the upgrade bug lives. Even if audible quality has plateaued if you need a feature on a unit that yours doesn't have and you can't easily add it you have to think about it. BUT I think an RCA splitter out of your dac and the Schiit Sys would also grant you control over the Airmotiv's.

[@whocares0503]

+Z Reviews I have the Sys already and I use 2 y-splitters in my Bifrost as you suggested so I can use my Lyr for headphones and my computer for the speakers. I was hoping to cut down on the gear on my desk too and improve the sound... I rarely upgrade, I only did the Uber/Usb gen2 since it was in for repair anyway. The VERY kind people @Schiit gave me a deal since it was already in for warranty purposes. I have been very happy with the Lyr and really have not felt the need to upgrade before in the last 4 yrs. luckily! I looked at all that fancy gear at the meet and I always will wonder how much better some of it truly is, but I never go nuts, its not in the budget. I actually feel lucky with what I own, as a lot do not even have that. Most people get the upgrade bug sooner or later unfortunately and this hobby can by costly if you are not careful. As I told you at the meet I have had the same HD600s since the late 90s, I will never part with them ugly or not! :-)

[@jimmyrogers918]

I can hear a difference between the one built into my Emotiva TA 100 and the mani 2 in favor of the Emotiva. I am not sure I would see a difference going to a BiFrost, but the Bifrost is so cool.

[@James7995]

So you are saying on record that R2R doesn't sound worse then delta sigma?

[@AkhilAbrol]

Sir, you truly are a great reviewer. Salut and hats off for your honesty. You solved my problem in 8 mins really.

[@poochzag8]

I definitely respect and believe your opinion, but I'm curious if you'd be able to tell a difference with a better amp? (kind of rhetorical as you may not have one around in the moment)

[@ZReviews]

+poochzag8 I mean it is possble but the Aune is probably my favorite SS amp so far. I trust it to tell me what is going on.

[@poochzag8]

+Z Reviews yeah I trust that, didn't mean to sound critical or anything. I can tell a difference with Gungnir MB and an ODAC/smsl m8, but that's using a Mjolnir2 and never tried another amp so idk. Also with my comparison there's the complication of single ended vs balanced

[@poochzag8]

+Z Reviews Also I'll be the first to admit those gains are there and minimal, especially considering its a grand over most delta Sigma DACs. I would only recommend to fellow semi-crazies who already have endgame headphones and amp and are looking for just a smidge more improvement at high cost. Stack looks cool as hell though, my girlfriend doesn't understand why it need to be so big

[@MetroidChild]

Multibit is kinda like if you go from 16 bit to 24 bit in a sense, basically same thing but physically instead of on your pc. Any signal that tries to change from top to bottom/bottom to top in more than 100kHz would be the limit to what is usable from a pure physical standpoint, the air might even smush out the physical signal inside the speaker element so the waveform that enters your ear is distorted to something like 50kHz which is still only useful for when using ridiculously high reaching cans. In this case the only thing that would be a possible bottle-neck would be the headphone amp itself, if it reaches above around 40-50kHz you should be fine though with physics. A single bit dac switching at about 1 mHz would give you noise at around 1 mHz, this gets mushed in any and all wires inside the system that carry that signal, so that's it. No need for fancy pantsy multi-bit system when reaching a cirtain limit, and if you want to get really technical you could use a transistor that doesn't switch faster than 100kHz and drive it with a 1MHz signal, that would smush the signal to the correct voltage correctly without even needing any other support

[@Mike220111]

Good review man you help me out lot that it not worth it to spend lot of money on a dac. Thank you z review

[@iLykeCahrs]

Have you ever tried the Modi Multibit?

[@ZReviews]

noop

[@DrFearCo]

Your amp isn’t resolving enough, your source files aren’t good enough. Your signal path isn’t clean enough. Your cables aren’t expensive enough. The city you live in doesn’t provide good enough electricity for you to hear the subtle nuances in the highs. Your ears aren’t good enough. Your headphones aren’t expensive enough. You are listening in the northern hemisphere. Everyone know multibit sounds best in a vacuum and below sea level... duh

[@Borednlonely]

i agree with you its difficult to tell a difference between days on headphones. I can tell differences on speakers over prolonged listening easily.

[@astroporpoise7802]

7:24 "And I'm just not hearing anything!" Haha, I was hoping you'd continue with: "I mean I hear the music, I'm not deaf...I just can't hear a difference between the dacs." :P Keep up the great work!

[@TheDutchSandwich]

Do you think with higher end, more revealing headphones that they may help for A-B testing? I'm not bashing the HD600 - they are my highest end headphone.

[@ZReviews]

+TheDutchSandwich Well the LCD-X are living with me for a while and "spoilers" they are indeed the best set of cans I have listened to in terms of fucking everything. Spoilers part 2.. They sound the best powered off my $99 Micca Origen.. So there you go.

[@TheDutchSandwich]

+Z Reviews Oh wow. That's awesome. I've never heard of the Micca Origin. I'll definitely check it out. I just bought a Peachtree DacItX + Schiit Asgard 2 for my HD600 and am pretty stoked.

[@1800yolk]

i just bought one of these, and had a non-audiophile friend blind test it using the same speakers and receiver, vs my sound card over digital out. He (and i) can both definitely notice the difference. Why? Because we both have a musical background, aka playing actual instruments. That being said, if you don't feel fatigued from listening to your current audio setup, whatever it may be, then it's nice to not have to worry about upgrading your DAC. Also, another note: the Schiit company explains that each of their multibit models benefit noticably from leaving them on 24/7, or at least being warmed up properly which takes several hours. I wonder if this guy actually did this, but either way i doubt it would change much about the video.

[@taiefmiah]

shouldn't be a thing with solid state DACs though. it's not a tube amp

[@shawnpwatsons1]

I have a iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, which is obviously not tubes ,and it really starts to sound noticeably better after about 40 minutes. I think the clocks need to fully warm up to have full accuracy.

[@taiefmiah]

It's not the clocks. After doing more research. This thing has resistor ladders. Resistors are temp dependent, while it's not that much of an issue with resistors being quite space, in actual Ladders the actual performance massively changes. It's why class A designs need to be at op temps to sound good.

[@kesm66]

Slightly different mention; I’ve heard no difference between the USB & SPDIF toggle switch on my (Border Patrol) DAC either...despite measurements all over the web that suggests otherwise between the 2 input formats. Love the honestly here. The biggest difference is the physical size...it’s obvious that Schiit can easily fit onto your desk compared to the other unit that you have tabletop.

[@Nick-s-f]

I was expecting the exact conclusions reached in this review. The main push for buying a Bifrost is its upgrade-ability.

[@UnhingedBecauseLucid]

Your amp was probably too weak a link for such a test. But yeah ... Multibit DACs could probably all be way past the Law of Diminishing returns...

[@trubadyr99]

Thank you for this video and the effort made into making it! How about now? As of today? Do you have your DAC preference changed? It's 2019 already, and people naturally are raving about the DSD more then they did before. So by today's standards, a decent DAC must be a good DSD decoder.

[@phthora_xnobys]

Thank you, sincerely, for saving me some serious money.

[@bkdarkness]

The difference between the 1 bit and multibit bifrost is literally 1db in the Signal-to-Noise ratio. Says so right in the spec sheet. How they can charge 200$ more for it is beyond me.

[@thomaschan9148]

Absolutely awesome review. I just bought a used Modi 2 Uber to pair with the Fostex TH-X00 that is currently on Massdrop and is supposedly shipping in May based on what you said. Now to find a decent amp and I should be good to go. It's either going to be the Magni 2 Uber or Vali 2.

[@ZReviews]

+Thomas Chan Flip all the coins.

[@brucebillb]

70k for a DAC set up! And they say Sennheiser HE1060 is expensive D:

[@JH-ye8fd]

You should do some testing on HD800s, or other harder to drive headphones, I think you'd see the differences better, since your current equipment is overkill for HD600s

[@SamualWilliams]

justin hammond But the 800s are overrated...

[@yaeshraj]

The HD600 are just as Hard to drive as the HD800. Both are rated at 300 ohms... Maybe an audiotechnica ATH-R70x is what you mean with an impedance of 470 ohms :P

[@TheWretchedWorld]

yaeshraj actually the hd600 is harder to drive than the 800 as it's less efficient

[@DrFearCo]

TheWretchedWorld it’s less expensive though... I think that’s what he means

[@tomsmith9479]

don't know about the techno-geek stuff, but this unit combined with a Valhalla 2 HP amp gives me all the detail I could ask for.

[@Felix-ve9hs]

The increase in sound quality is inversely exponential to price ... (double the price doesn´t mean double the sound quality) right?

[@ZReviews]

Tenths of a percent.

[@filovirus1]

Oblivion performed by Susanne Sundfor - immediate up vote

[@eat_ze_bugs]

But doesn't the Multibit need warm up?

[@wcg66]

It's funny looking at these early videos, the room almost looks empty!

[@LeHuy-ts4nn]

I can hear the difference between my modi2u, modi multibit and the Gungnir multibit. All played via single-endend rca into my cheap Schiit amps and the LCD-2.

[@rakeshu5454]

Bifrost Multibit n Asgard 2 Combo or Jotunheim Balanced? Thanks

[@bigdallyc]

I blame the connector splitter thingy.

[@ArmandD]

hey you probably get asked this a lot, but where do you buy those rca cables from? I can't find the z500's anywhere...

[@ZReviews]

They were leftover stock from LIBERTYCABLE.com

[@h0ll0wm9n]

Hmmm ... wonder if this now-old AD1855-based Emotiva XDA-2 dac would still equal out with the latest Schiit Bifrost-2 (which has "improved" Unison USB)???

[@igorcosta8559]

Did you ever test side by side the Schiit dacs with the 4490 module and the multibit one? I bought myself an Asgard 3 with the 4490 because I heard that Schiit's claims on the multibit thing were bogus, and it wasn't worth at all to go from the 4990 to multibit for another $100. Just wanted to know your opinion on this.

[@V1ralB1ack]

Well with their asgard, jotunheim and lyr options the multibit dac is equivalent to the schiit modi multibit and at that point multibit isn't worth it and is well not so good at that price point. Their bifrost, gungnir and yggdrasil multibit are easily worth it and better than delta sigmas

[@ca77721]

I have a Chord Mojo.I have always wanted to try a Schitt DAC.But would it be an ugrade,downgrade or no discernible difference in sound quality?

[@bennielamb8911]

Great video. I did have a question on two products that you did recently audition one being the Hi-Fi man Sundara planar headphone. To be used along with Schiit lyr 3 with 6wpc @ 32 ohm. I know this is a tube amp, but I believe it's only for the input stage.

[@Jakiita1]

Hi Zeos, I do not currently own any hard to drive headphones. But it is something I'm interested in investing in the future. I'm trying to shop smart and think a bit about the future here rather than buy something and then having to buy two piece gear on top of it that just does the same thing. I am currently looking into a microphone for streaming, and I found one where I liked the sound of my voice in the store but it is XLR so I'd need something to plug it into to run to my computer. I was recommended to use the Scarlett Solo by Focusrite and I'd like to know your opinion on that? Basically I was told to use it for the mic AND then plug the monitor plugs into my Receiver (Yamaha HTR-6040) to my speakers. Speakers are nothing Fancy and I don't need HDMI for my setup with my receiver so it's a little bit old but it does what I need it to do. But as for headphones in the future, would the Scarlett Solo be appropriate as a DAC or would I need a separate one for that. It does have a 3.5mm jack at the front but it's all really confusing to me since I just started looking into it. Some people have said it is a DAC and can power some headphones (up to 200-250ish Ohms).. But in the long run, I was wondering if I'd need a separate DAC for headphones or could I just add an AMP to the Scarlett through some sort of. I am not closed to the idea of buying more pieces of equipment in the future but as an in between would that work out? thanks for you time and reply in advance :)

[@ZReviews]

+KvGv If you mic is XLR you need a pro interface so the Solo makes sense. I am not sure you want to monitor the mic with the speakers but you can likely use it with the headphones just fine.

[@JC-oz6xn]

Could it be that the switchboard is degrading the signal equally?

[@SylvexDragonskin]

That HD600 looks cool with the yellow.

[@DMN3901]

Yep, sounds about right. The only thing I can think of is to eliminate the splitter and/or get some HD800's and re-test. Until then, o2+odac for me.

[@Tedsville]

So, I'm in the market for a decent DAC and the bifrost is high on my to-buy list. Based on this review would you confirm that there's no point in me spending the extra cash on the multi-bit version?

[@ZReviews]

yes.

[@Tedsville]

Cool, thanks.

[@TheRoshan89]

dude you could buy an odac for 150$ and get the same if not better results - unless having that silver box on your desk is really worth the extra 250$. i am severely allergic to Bullschiit, and after seeing the crap they tried to pull with the wyrd, i will never buy a schiit product again and i want them to go out of business. I literally see them as the apple of the audiophile world, except their customers are much more retarded.

[@newton5954]

Node 2i vs this schitt dac what sounds better honestly that you can hear? I have a node 2i and it's okay I want better but not piss my money away to not hear no difference or 1% more but I'm looking at this schitt dac instead !! Or should I just get a better preamp that sounds better?

[@ironosenshicas]

zeos could u you make a dac round up with the smsl m8 and other dacs around that price point?

[@SemaphoreNewgrounds]

Currently running Asus Xonar STX Soundcard + Senheiser HD 700, I know... but since my last headphones were the HD 598 which gave me the clearest sound of what I ever heard since then and I really enjoy clearness and not much bass. However I don't have much knowlegde of DAC's and AMP's, but I understand they can improve soundquality. Does it makes sense to connect the Asus to a DAC or an AMP and will it improe the sound quality even further or should I sell the Asus and get a AMP+DAC solution? Can you recommend any solutions? I watched videos, reviews, and products for days now and I can't decide... since I use it only for PC to makie music and also enjoy music I would go with Objective2 + ODAC Rev. B or a shiit solution. I'm from germany so I have to wait probably for weeks to get these so I have to be certain. My Budget is 400$ max.