Z-Wave vs. Zigbee: understanding home automation protocols

[@fancyhandlegoeshere]

I always wondered if I was "cheating myself" by staying w/ Zigbee for the most part but this video reassured me that I'm not. Thanks for the info!

[@raymondbailey2142]

What am I waiting for? Well I need to do more research on how to move all my Phillips Hue devices over to hubitat with out a lot of aggravation before I buy the hubitat hub. 😊

[@michaelhess4825]

I feel the constant power monitoring comment was aimed squarely at me! 😁

[@Netz0]

Wi-Fi devices do not require cloud serves unless intentionally by the manufacturer. Nothing stops a device from using your local network. Technically, that depends on the devices you are buying. If you can VLAN your devices (which you should for all IoT smart devices in your home, including your Smart TV) to never connect to the Internet, Wi-Fi is the clear choice since it's already running everywhere, and it's immensely more powerful than any low data protocol. It's not mesh, but for most installations people already make sure Wi-Fi coverage is on the whole home/building, which means you don't even need mesh. And mesh on ZigBee and Z-Wave look great on paper, but they don't work as most people think they do. For bigger installations it does not work and latency and disconnections will be a problem, which means you now need repeaters anyway... Now, if you want to go with a home automation protocol using mesh, ZigBee is the clear choice. Z-Wave is a disaster and it's a proprietary protocol, while ZigBee is not. That means Z-Wave devices require paying licenses by device manufacturers (more expensive) and since it's proprietary, it's a horrible investment for the future. You don't know what they can change tomorrow just because or raise the license fees or just decide to go bust. Do not use a proprietary protocol in your home, this means no Z-Wave, no Amazon or Google-specific protocols, or just any proprietary locked format from a private company. ZigBee is open source, which makes it a clear choice. Basically, Z-Wave is privately owned. That is a big no. The same goes for security cameras, with devices you want interconnection with other software and devices, this means making sure they are ONVIF compliant. If you stick to open protocols and devices, you can basically mix any brand and use any hardware or software with anything.

[@kingzach74]

So say a person wants to get started in Home Automation and wants to avoid the cloud server companies. You say Wi-Fi is the fastest(which duh obviously), if someone wants to go that route, is a hub even necessary? If not, would Home Assistant be able to detect devices that are already connected to your Wi-Fi? Would any kind of hub even be required with Home Assistant?

[@aliciawang-u2g]

Nice explained!!

[@BobFrTube]

Wi-Fi devices assuredly do not require connecting to a cloud. Especially when you use Hubitat. With Shelly and Tasmota and other implementations, they communicate directly over IP. They can be simpler and more flexible the legacy Z protocols.

[@tacticaladvance]

How do you use your wifi devices with Hubitat?

[@jorik41]

Wifi for running plugs or lights is not a great option wifi is made for large data transfer over and having a "big as legally allowed range" so they consume more power than zwave of zigbee. Things like plugs or lights don't need those packages sizes so a lot is Bandwith Is being wasted. Also in my experience the more devices on the wifi the crappyer the wifi even if the devices are not actively doing something wifi is like switching one Ethernet cable really fast between the connected devices. Even if you don't need it you will get a bit of time and that increases the overal latency for all the devices.its one of the main reasons almost all routers have 2bands 2,4 and 5ghz to dump the slower devices on the slower 2,4ghz so they don't interfer with you fast laptop on the 5gz. If it's for like 5 devices sure wifi is acceptable but for say 20+ device it not really that use full.

[@BobFrTube]

@@jorik41 The problem is that Zs are ball-of-wax protocols without clean architectural separation of the transport and relationships. With IP I can carry my light switch in my pocket and take it to China from Boston, and it still works. Or I can share a light in a driveway with my neighbors and set appropriate policies. I have over 265 WI-Fi drives, and it works well.

[@nathanas64]

Best hub out there !

[@djashjones]

"Currently"

[@stevenye2682]

How do you deal with persistency. In my current setup I have found zigbee devices (hue bulbs) occasionally miss the initial turn on leaving some lights off when they should be on. So how do you ensure that if the light is switched on it actually switches on or does that have to be done by the user?

[@mdg39518]

Can you mix Zigbee and Zwave devices in your home with this hub?

[@djashjones]

Yes

[@kingzach74]

Sounds like Zigbee is the best and easiest to use.

[@apjabdulkalam4012]

Wifi is best , you were taking about latecy in network if u wanted to controle zigbee & z wave , even then u need wifi, when it comes to local network wifi is a common device in every home and cuts the cost down and also literary works the best.

[@GorlockSlayer]

Technically Zigbee and Z-Wave are not reliant on WiFi at all for their operation but I’ll give you partial credit because their devices are often made to be controlled by WiFi mobile devices. Even so, the mobile device only needs to send and receive momentary control/status data to the hub which handles all of the other operations over Zigbee or Z-Wave so the amount of traffic generated on the WiFi network is so minuscule, it’s a non factor. As explained in the video, the real latency for WiFi devices comes into play when traffic needs to leave the local network and traverse the internet to be processed, then sent all the way back to the device on the LAN which is how almost all WiFi devices work. This also means that nothing works when your internet is down or the server on the internet isn’t accessible. That alone is enough reason to avoid WiFi and go for one of the other protocols that were specifically built around IoT. There’s plenty of other reasons like interference potential which increases significantly with each device added, basically no mesh capability compared to the other protocols, and the much higher energy requirements prevent use of long lasting battery operated devices.

[@djashjones]

"wifi is the best"🤣

[@omar10wahab]

@@GorlockSlayer love the detail in your comment. I was wondering about energy consumption and bandwidth congestion which I'm starting to notice cause my devices are all internet ip based. I'm trying to cut over but I still am looking into which would work better for me. Not sure which protocol would be best

[@arishem555]

Do you mind hubitat to support your users, or u will treat me with silence? Ticket 23225

[@omar10wahab]

Yeah they don't care bro

[@arishem555]

@@omar10wahab that's what I realized already :) Product is quite great,- but they don't care :)