Zain vs Armada - Melee Singles: Losers' Finals - Smash Summit 6

PG.Zain vs [A].Armada - Melee Singles: Losers' Finals - Smash Summit 6 2018
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Participants: Hungrybox, Mang0, Armada, Plup, Mew2King, Wizzrobe, Axe, Leffen, SFAT, N0ne, HugS, Westballz, aMSa, 2saint, Zain & Ginger
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[@herrojason]

its a shame that they only played 3 times.

[@guesswho6941]

Both of you above shut the fuck up

[@clem5419]

Seriously, armada robbed us of such a good potential rivalry by just quitting lol

[@happymonkeyfish]

Its crazy how when Armada switch from fox to peach, the pressure on zain fuckin skyrocketed, wish he was still reppin peach in 2022

[@benjaminrhee5556]

Every time Armada pulls a stitch, pause and look at his face. His reactions are priceless sometimes. He was having way too much fun with the stitch that took two stocks on FoD.

[@Nagstersept109868]

That stitch face took two stocks but that’s the difference in experience between M2K and Zain. Armada got stitches against M2K but he knows how to play around them. Zain looked like he wasn’t sure what to do or how to play and he lost two stocks for it.

[@laken6461]

It's literally not a M2K Armada set without a stitch lol

[@savanchandul7451]

It's still Armada, I think the only people that can beat him see to be considered top 5 anyways, and Zain did really well.

[@cheesekimbap2996]

@Harvester of Eyes this comment aged well

[@inafridge8573]

Yeah. Armada was lucky to get a stitch, but he used the stitch so well. A worse Peach wouldn't have gotten Zain like that.

[@lilfoxy16]

2:21 start

[@legend98ish]

So weird going back in time and seeing the comments lmao

[@Ellie926k]

Imagine if this was every GF. Come back armada, we miss you

[@connorlucas5035]

Man i miss these days !!

[@jamiecal11]

2018 was GOATed. So many threats to win tournaments while not in a 'big players are missing so anyone can win' kinda way. So so stacked at the top. Plup winning Genesis, M2K winning Summit, Leffen winning EVO, Zain winning Shine, Armada winning Smash Con etc....the only thing missing was a really good Mango, who was finding his feet as a Falco main again. I way prefer that to now. I way prefer having Genesis, EVO, and TBH stand above the rest (with Shine close to joining them). It felt like there was way more stake than there is now, even as quality of play has obviously risen.

[@the_tane]

Armada clearly gettin his chub on

[@The321g]

Gratz to Zain man. Who the fuck thought he would get 3rd in smash summit. That guy is amazing

[@zachsteiner]

This is funny looking back at

[@austintacious94]

10:37 The coast to coast

[@humbletreestump8134]

2:20 start!

[@dorohime7001]

I think Toph knows what he's talking about. The curse of loser's bracket M2K.

[@chasechilcoate4476]

wish they played more

[@beanking3133]

Zain a different beast now. And Mythra is best girl.

[@dddiop]

I can't believe M2K is (was) only 23-5, and 23-3 before that against Armada. Jesus.

[@irishjet2687]

I think Armada was actually 24-4 against Mew2King going into this set. (Sorry, I know this is a three-year-old comment! Also, apologies; this is very long.) Liquidpedia lists their total set count at 26-7, with their last meeting being Super Smash Con 2018, where they split sets, and Armada won his last tournament before retiring. They played two sets in between Smash Summit 6 and SSC 2018 (EVO 2018 and Smash 'N' Splash 4), and Armada won both. That means Armada was 3-1 after Summit 6, which, if Tafo's stats are correct, would only put M2K at 6-26 against Armada, meaning he missed a win from each. My guess (assuming Liquidpedia is correct) is that Tafo missed 2016's UGC Smash Open, which saw a similar situation to SSC 2018: M2K (L) and Armada met in GFs, M2K won Set One, and Armada won Set Two. Interestingly, Mew2King did not win a set against Armada until SKTAR 3 in June 2014, which SOUNDS like it was a long time into their rivalry, but it was actually only the fifth set they ever played. I think we forget/don't know how grassroots Melee was then, and how infrequently players from other regions and continents played each other. (Also, Armada retired for about six months in 2013.) Armada then won 8 sets in a row before M2K took one set at 2016's Summit 2, and then that same tournament Armada started a 7-set win streak. So, going into UGC Smash Open, M2K was 2-19 against Armada. Armada then won 3 more sets in 2017, before Mew2King had the best stretch of his career against Armada in the year before the latter retired. From August 2017 to August 2018, beginning with GameTyrant Expo 2017 and ending at SSC 2018, M2K and Armada split 4-4, and M2K actually had the slight edge in game wins, at 18-17. It just makes we wonder how their rivalry could have evolved if Armada and Mew2King could have had easier access to each other's regions prior to 2014, if Armada hadn't temporarily retired in 2013, if Mew2King hadn't battled injury and depression in 2015 (when they only played two sets), if they didn't have to deal with chronic hand pain from GameCube controllers, or how different the record might be if Armada hadn't fully retired, and M2K wasn't as infrequently attending tournaments. Still, I'll always remember the sets we DID get, and be grateful for two competitors who pushed the game we love to ever-greater heights.

[@samskott2344]

​@@irishjet2687the record is extremely lopsided in Armada's favor, but it doesn't tell the whole story of how close their sets were. Even Armada talked about it once saying that even though their record was lopsided, most of their sets were extremely close and could have gone either way. Obviously Armada was a bit of a bracket demon for Mew2king for quite a while, but he really held his own at the end of their rivalry. I think SSC 2018 was as close to a perfect end to their rivalry that we could have asked for. They both took a set, but Armada appropriately won the tournament (I say appropriately because while I would have loved for Mew2king to take the win, Armada always had the edge, so him winning was a fitting end).

[@cartman994]

BOBBY SCAR!!

[@jamiecal11]

Electing to go Fox vs Marth.....god how times have changed.

[@jordandwiggins1026]

Curious if this comment came before Summit 11 or not

[@palletalle9668]

12:25 Turnip ladder!

[@Bowserslave]

Can Zain just be auto invited to Summit 7? Even if somehow he doesnt end up being Top 10 I legitimately think his 3rd place result should be more than good enough to be auto invited.

[@Akarisend]

Agreed.

[@Maho_Stitch]

Hard agree.

[@ChamplooMusashi]

If he keeps performing really well then I agree. A lot can change in a year though.

[@MandrakeTheMagician1]

unless he falls off a cliff he will probs be top 10

[@ChamplooMusashi]

yea it keeps looking that way haha.

[@Andrzejkl94]

Why does zain look so happy at the beginning lol

[@happinesstolerant]

Zain will return.

[@iTheBeep]

Talha Ghani Yes. The Pakistani PP deserves another round of god-slaying. (Hopefully he learns how to fight Peach by then too lul)

[@stayontrack]

Talha Ghani Return to losing to jerry

[@shaheer_04]

@@iTheBeep hes pakistani?

[@thegamingguy1]

AND ZAIN WINS GENESIS 7

[@pIayingwithmahwii]

@@thegamingguy1 now he's considered #1 in the world

[@manuelehrat4392]

When Armada is fighting Marth on the edge, why is he doing cc downsmash against marths recovery instead of marthkiller(Lightshield -> instand ledgegrab)?

[@mylesbishop1240]

Yes

[@Absolyst]

Covers if Marth tries to land on stage instead of grabbing edge. Also the ledgegrab from Marth killer would be slightly slower on Peach than, say, Fox, since she's a floaty, so it might not be as guaranteed.

[@manuelehrat4392]

Thanks!

[@mylesbishop1240]

Yes

[@charleswashington3973]

Because it worked. If it works, it’s a kill. If not, he can Marthkiller. The cc downsmash is a gimmick that the Marth can tech

[@StigmaLotus]

8:13 Why M2K does the u-tilt in the middle of a spacies chaingrab.

[@yobobby9]

@Matias Flores nope.... Its to maximize damage, and force less chain grabs therefore less di reactions. Tipper up tilt has a lot of hitstun and therefore cant be di'd that much. So it allows marth follow up with almost anything around 40%

[@yobobby9]

Also thats zain not m2k diff player

[@StigmaLotus]

@@yobobby9 I was saying that in contrast to Zain’s plan here doing the autopilot Marth strat.

[@Ariel_L]

Another phantom at 8:22. I can't take that anymore.

[@Pan_Z]

UCF

[@Ariel_L]

I T S T R U E

[@remileclerc9627]

It definitely is, I've seen like 100+ phantom hits this tourney

[@Ariel_L]

Remi Leclerc same. Too much phantoms lately.

[@Pan_Z]

Wait, you guys are aware UCF causing phantoms is a joke... right?

[@danielkim1349]

16:08 u can grab in airdodge???

[@cencil6497]

Damn Armada would destroy Zain if he still played! What a legend!

[@dbzsongoku1]

Def not True lol, Zain Now I'd way more insane than he was in 2018

[@TheBeggies95]

@@dbzsongoku1 Thats a meme bro lmao

[@cencil6497]

@@dbzsongoku1 False.

[@xtreamdream439]

Zain is so much better than he was here I don't know if armada would beat him

[@niht3405]

@@xtreamdream439 peak armada had the other gods on there toes and nobody outside of them could even touch him (besides an occasional leffen). So if that armada still played more then likely zain wouldn’t be winning against him.

[@larvitardratini5965]

Canada cup rematch with m2k on top of his Marth game again

[@jaredmartin7040]

Larvitar Dratini Why did you say that name?!?!?-Batman

[@loganreidy7055]

GG / Mogul Moves Zain > PG Zain

[@josephagnetti8921]

Zain getting destroyed by Armada. Surprising.

[@raulsalassoto4185]

You may defeat plup or mango, but not armada

[@anone1243r]

unless you're m2k

[@lalegenda3835]

m2k beat him

[@TehWhiteTiger]

Raul Salas Soto - RNGesus

[@stayontrack]

Raul Salas Soto M2k beat zain twice and armada twice go dayum

[@raulsalassoto4185]

Well, that day M2K played incredibly amazing but overall armada is super consistent so he almost never loses to someone out of the top 6

[@uberpansy77]

Not like that, zane

[@greencow4]

Armada bailed out by stitch face

[@CalebSmith-gg1dt]

Not even... Did you just start watching melee a year ago?

[@mylesbishop1240]

Armada gained some weight boy. He's a killa though

[@brant7173]

Myles Bishop he started eating the hair on the back of his head it looks like

[@mylesbishop1240]

Brant damn my boy savage 😂

[@jeromepowell1392]

The meta is the same today as it was in this set. Zain is no better now than he was in 2018. Noone will ever be better than Armada was in 2018

[@sapolefrog1736]

Bad grammar and not true.

[@pIayingwithmahwii]

@@sapolefrog1736 its a meme

[@PreacherJenkins]

Prime Blur trashes everybody

[@danielcohens4610]

Anyone who dosen't think Marth is Tier 1 doesn't understand fundamental melee imo. Fundamentals are just difficult to execute optimally. I've never seen a game with such a high skill cap, that's why Melee is the best game, the tier list is so ambiguous because the skill cap in this game is pretty much infinite, but at top performing level, Marth wins every match up haha forreal.

[@chandlermccoy1813]

I disagree. I think even despite Marth's long range and speed, fox's even more superior speed and best of all ridiculous killing power and gimping abilities make him better IN GENERAL. Marth's moves are amazing, but if he wiffs he can get punished hard because his hitboxes aren't active for very long. If fox wiffs, he is even more lagless than marth is, and his hitboxes stay out until he hits the ground. This in combination with his shine being a get off me move and even a frame one kill confirm in some cases, makes fox able to not make more combinations of offensive/defensive decisions in a set amount of time than marth, but also makes a well practiced fox more reliable and efficient than marth in my oppinion. Plus, marth does excellent against heavies and pretty decent against floaties, but fox does excellent against both. I see marth as more of an anti-spacie character than anything else. Like rock paper scissors in matchups

[@natenatenate10]

@@chandlermccoy1813 fox is only the best if we're speaking about theoretical Melee--to maintain top performance for an entire tournament against wobblers, 20GX falcons, chain grabbing/dash dancing Marths, pillaring Falcos, etc., is such a mental and physical burden. By top 4 you just can't be playing at that top level neccessary to outperform a much more rested and grounded Marth (unless you hydrate sufficiently and hit that perfect dose of stimulants)

[@chandlermccoy1813]

@@natenatenate10 Sure, but generally when we make tier lists or are comparing characters, aren't we already talking hypothetically? In all honesty tier lists are not the end all be all if the meta. In fact, I'd argue that the importance of the characters place in the meta is dwarfed by the players pushing said meta. Even still, saying fox is the best character if you're only speaking hypothetically kinda sounds the same to me as saying fox is only the best character if you're talking about his ability to take the opponent's stock pool before they take his

[@josephagnetti8921]

These commentators make me dislike Zain

[@huangnguyen9529]

Armada is a legend but there is no doubt in my mind that Zain would 4 stock peak 2018 Armada.

[@evadekiryu5060]

Your hyping zain way too much, he would definitely 3-0 armada but definitely not 4 stock him

[@inafridge8573]

2022 Zain would beat 2018 Armada, but if Armada was still active this whole time, Zain and Armada would likely be quite close or at least about as close as any top player nowadays is to Zain.

[@elshaddollworld3941]

@@inafridge8573 who knows, the current peach are argudably as good as armada could've been also the whole top 20 is filled with monsters, is not as easy as before where only the other gods could touch him, now he would face a lot more competition

[@patelkedar]

If Armada was active this whole time, it's hard to say. You can count on one hand the amount of times Armada lost to a non-god. To say Armada was dominant is an understatement

[@xHabsFan10x]

Armada carried by RNG???

[@elshaddollworld3941]

man zain would destroy armada if they played nowdays, you can see this zain is absolute trash compared to the monster he is currently

[@elshaddollworld3941]

@@monsterhousecop2082 i mean with an armada that never retired but yeah i see your point lmao, not destroy but i think zai would be somewhat better

[@elshaddollworld3941]

@@monsterhousecop2082 yeah is just that at time of My comment zain wss destroying everybody but now they can keep up with him

[@adrianengen5743]

Im suprised armada didnt pull a single bomb/lightsword at all in summit

[@Bowserslave]

He got like 4 Stitches though in the M2K Winner's Quarter match though and another one in the Grand Finals set.

[@WiiLord95]

He pulled a bomb vs Amsa

[@WiiLord95]

And I wanna say he pulled a sword vs Mango in pools

[@anonymousperson1706]

It's like for every item that he didn't get here, he got in Grand finals at Smash Con

[@ariesomega2487]

@@anonymousperson1706 yeah