Zastava PAP M77-PS (Pt 3): Precision Handload & Stretching the Rifle’s Legs

[@connorburnes7697]

I love seeing AKs shoot! AKs can shoot like most people wouldn’t believe. Nice groups!

[@jaysonyang1441]

Yup I was surprised how accurate zastava Ak platforms are, a wee bit rough on finish, polish aks finish and machining is top shelf

[@TheREALLibertyOrDeath]

Thanks, your helping me get through waiting for my m77. Definitely excited. Seems your rifle is a keeper

[@aaa3d473]

This whole series got you a subscriber. This was exactly what I needed while I was researching buying this gun

[@noboy345]

Man I found these videos right at the perfect time. All the good info! Thanks again!

[@donbay1220]

Awesome shooting 👌

[@Sn00py_D00d]

Dude, so glad to see you giving the M77 the attention it deserves! I've been so happy with mine I've just been treating it like a DMR. ~2.5 MOA groups with M80 ball. Consistently 1.5 MOA groups with Norma 175 grain Golden Match and I've got a couple under 1 MOA with Federal 168 grain SMK. It's a little pricey but I think the SLR Rifleworks handguard took some pressure off the barrel and helped my accuracy a bit. If you're looking to squeeze out all the accuracy you can I definitely recommend it.

[@mikemartin168]

Thanks for the series, man. Ive got one on layaway and your videos have me pumped up.

[@arl0xen551]

Just picked up an m77, stoked to find this video. Thanks!

[@WillyMandingoWinchester]

Ooh...ooh it wants to be a DMR lol! Hands down my favorite rifle ever!

[@Jla11hfta]

That is some fantastic shooting!

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

Thanks! Once you figure out your dope and learn the rifle + optic set-up a little, hits on the 10” plate are fairly easy inside of 400. I will push past that mark as soon as I can and share.

[@larrybooth1900]

Thanks for the video, love my M77!!!

[@dougmccoy1260]

When two old guys get together, that's when all the stories we've heard before come out. We have a field that is 800yds long. Denny tells me about the 600yd crow with his 260rem. I talk about my 270 groups at 440 yds. Old school hold over. When I shot the 270 groups I also shot my handi-rifle 45/70. That was an eleven foot holdover. Dropped that 400gr cast bullet into the vitals of our deer target. We don't have any of that fancy stuff, just like in Good, the Bad and the Ugly. When it's time to shoot, shoot. Denny has a spring bear tag. He wants me to go along to add observations and critique when it's called for. I believe humor and ridicule is a necessity in these endeavors. His guide (neighbor)has in the past found bears in abundance, but can't hit a barn door with a rest. I asked him what gun he would use. His 375, or 358 norma, 300 norma. No, probably his 260 and head shoot it. Take care.

[@jamesjams5085]

I'm tuning in to the American Arms channel so I can watch them review an import 😂 LOVE ZASTAVA!

[@Minutes-Mils]

Picked mine up last year when they were getting imported again, tricked it out with a 1-10x, slr handguard, alg trigger, and a keymount flash hider. Been having issues trying to get the accuracy out of it that I was expecting, and was honestly disappointed, watching your series on this rifle gave me a bit of hope to try out some other things to get the accuracy out of it that I'm hoping for, gonna try out that igman ammo you were using, as well as some armscor 308 to see what happens, all I've been using so far is tula, getting a horrible 5 MOA or worse. Thanks for your videos on this 👍

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

Tula 308 is pretty garbage tier in the accuracy department (personal experience in a couple rifles). Great range fodder for blasting if you can get it at the right price, though. With quality Win/Igman M80 ball or similar I experience 2.5-3 MOA out of my example. Tension on the handguard is a big factor as well. If you have pressure on the barrel at all forward of the chamber it can induce odd harmonics that the rifle may hate. When I stippled the handguard on mine I relieved a little bit of tension by sanding down the contact points and that seemed to help as well, but not by a ton. I have had another individual report than relief of tension tightened groups significantly, so it doesn't hurt. If you are using a rail system, I would simply investigate where contact points might be forward of the chamber and relieve them, if possible. Igman also offers an M118 Long Range clone loading (175gr BTHP, 7.62 NATO) that may be a very cost effective option (ordering some myself to try) that comes in at about $0.93 a round shipped. This could be a serious option for good to excellent accuracy out of the rifle, but do expect lower velocities (2,550 FPS Range) and a bit more elliptical trajectory. Thus far, the Sierra Game King HPBT load using Varget has been the most accurate, but the Hornady 168gr BTHP Match using Winchester StaBall Match powder has shown good potential for being a 1-1.5 MOA average loading as well; more than adequate for what this rifle is best used for. Be mindful that the M77-PS is a "battle rifle" first and foremost; it is not intended to be a precision rifle. It is effectively a "Large Frame" M70, which in and of itself is not intended to be a precision rifle but a fighting carbine. With Military grade Ball ammunition the M70 is expected to produce 2.5-4 MOA groups. The M77 is more capable, and with the right loading can be utilized as a "Semi-Auto Precision Rifle" (SAPR) in a DMR like role. Odd examples here and there will shoot incredibly tight, but keep in mind the 1.5 MOA average is a reasonable goal for "precision" loadings. The rifle seems to like the 165 to 175gr weight range BTHP bullets for tighter groupings, but a ballistic tipped round may also offer high accuracy potential. All in all, if you get your rifle to shoot sub-2 MOA, for what a semi-auto 308 is useful for in all categories, you will be able to make effective hits on a 10" "kill-zone" target out to and past 500 Yards. That's a good ways away in the real world when hunting or (God forbid) combative engagements. Thanks for watching and the comment. - Drake

[@Minutes-Mils]

@@AmericanArmsChannel thank you for the input, the slr handguard does use a clamp forward of the chamber to secure the handguard to the Barrel, as well as a tight fit to the gap in the front of the receiver to achieve a "free float" type setup, I attached it to mount a bipod Foward on the rifle. I will try out swapping it back out to the stock handguard to see what happens, I was also attributing the poor accuracy to Barrel harmonics as you mentioned. The ammo was definitely not helpful either, and I will a also look into that LR igman loading as well, do you have a specific place you find it at that price

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

The best price I have found (including cost of shipping) is currently at Firearms Depot. The brass is really good in the Igman loadings, so if you handload you'll want to hang on to it. Honestly, I can only load a comparable round for a few pennies less than they are offering the LR clone for currently, so if it shoots well it's a pretty smoking deal.

[@SkulkyMcNasty]

What make is the extended charging handle? It matches the rifle really well.

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

That is a Carolina Shooters Supply “Yugo” Pattern Enhanced Charging Handle. I have really enjoyed it on my M77 and I believe it is about the perfect size. SKU#: CSS-CHARGING-HANDLE-YUGO-BLACK

[@SkulkyMcNasty]

@@AmericanArmsChannel Thank you

[@rik4369]

Have you thought about adding some of those game size deer targets, to your practice? I have heard you mention deer hunting as one of your applications for this weapon. They come in the " glow type results " that you maybe able to pickup with your scope. Again, thanks for the demonstration . Shooting was awesome! Breath Relax Aim Stop Squeeze ( BRASS). Semper Fi

[@chipchaffee2416]

Would like to see 168 smk out of this . Thanks for the content .

[@Minutes-Mils]

Good shooting, I found that mine really likes freedom munitions 147 grain, take it out to 500m regularly with about 80% accuracy, it's extremely consistent once I figured out my accuracy issues.

[@thingsstuff6564]

What were the accuracy issues

[@MP40guru]

out of curiosity, what were your accuracy issues? Im having a hell of time figuring mine out.

[@Minutes-Mils]

The main issue I found was ammunition selection and muzzle devices. 308 rifles tend to be fairly picky when it comes to ammo, usually you have to shoot at least 4-5 different types before you find a good one. Secondly, there's muzzle device selection, I found the accuracy to be absolutely horrible (5-6 MOA) while using muzzle brakes. I switched to a flash hider and got around 2 MOA with the same ammo. Suppressing it also maintained the accuracy. This is due to the thin barrel, and piston operation. So adding anything that could affect the harmonics of the barrel could hurt accuracy.

[@MP40guru]

@@Minutes-MilsThe first thing I’m doing when I get home is taking my break off, and re-testing some of the loads I have extras of still. I hated the slant brake, and added a 74 style (because it worked really well) after the first time I shot it. I didn’t even think about the brake adding to much weight and potentially messing with the harmonics. I’m glad that some one chimed in that’s done the same thing and figured it out, because Winchester white box and Norma were shooting slightly better than 3moa the first range trip.

[@Minutes-Mils]

@@MP40guru its not necessarily the weight, just the way the gas is vented at the muzzle that affects the harmonics

[@Serenityindailylife]

Try the Hornady interlock bullets. They do very well and aren't expensive or hard to find.

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

I did try the 150gr Interloks (see group samples in part two) and with Varget, which the rifle generally likes, and 4350 they were the equivalent of M80 ball. 2-2.5 MOA groupings.

[@jackmorrow427]

I USE FEDERAL BALL 147 GR TO GOOD EFFECT FREAKISH ACCURACY FOR BALL AMMO 40 RD WHITE BOX FEDERAL BALL 147 FROM WALLY WORLD .. I ALSO HAVE SOME 308 SUPERFORMANCE 165 THAT SCREEMS AND IS ALSO ACCURATE ... THE MOST ACCURATE AK I HAVE EVER OWNED ...

[@MP40guru]

I’m curious and also seeking help. How much of a “pet load” is this for your rifle? Iv been trying to drum up a load for my PAP M77 for a month or so now and can’t seem to find ANYTHING that comes out this well. Iv tried various store bought ammo in M80 Ball or 155gr variants and am averaging 4-5 MOA. Iv reloaded 150gr Sierra, PPU, Hornady bullets on top of both IMR-4895, Varget, and TAC from 41gr-44g, with my best group being exactly 3 MOA. Today I loaded some 168gr bullets and was getting 7-8 MOA on charges of 43.5 and less of Varget. But DID get two groups roughly 3.5 MOA on 44.1gr but was starting to get some pressure signs (flatter primers, flow back around the firing pin) that make me apprehensive in getting up to your 44.6. Were your pressure signs similar? Have you noticed severe degradation in accuracy with weaker powder charges? Or NATO weight bullets? I’m just trying to get this thing consistent, and don’t mind drumming up a specific load for this rifle, but still feel like I’m just throwing time and money into the abyss with no real path forward.

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

A couple things…. Autoloaders will very commonly show “false” pressure signs, especially when they have a larger firing pin hole. Primer flow can occur at 50k psi easily if the primer is not fully supported by the breach face. I have had PPU 150gr SP’s show “pressure signs” in my M77, and PPU is rarely ever loaded to full potential. I have not seen any excessive pressure signs on the case head or case neck with my loading, only primer flow. With the exception of Winchester M80 and Igman M80, pretty much everything I have used in my M77 has shown primer flow. If you use a harder military primer like the CCI #31 7.62 NATO primer, it mitigates the flow a bit. The load I am using in this video I sort of just fell into. I decided to work up a nice hunting load and the 165gr HPBT GK from sierra was on my shelf and looked to be a good option given the OAL limitations of the M77 magazine. Varget was my first choice, but I also tried IMR 4064 and Staball Match. Neither had the accuracy or velocities I was looking for. There could be a few things impacting your rifle’s accuracy that I would look into: 1) optic mount and optic; I started with the Zastava branded UTG made mount, and it turned out to be dog-water. I have the AK Master Mount on my M77 now and I have replaced the Swampfox Tomahawk LPVO with a Primary Arms 1-8x SLX ACSS LPVO on Vortex medium height rings. This change is more stable and will assist with more consistent accuracy. You need to make sure your optic set-up does not flex and that your optics choice is sufficient to the task. There is a lot of mass moving back and forth in an AK or AR, which imparts greater force and stranger harmonics on the optic and mount system than the cartridge recoil. Be sure to take that into consideration. 2) tension of hand-guard to receiver/barrel trunnion; too tight and it can impact harmonics, too loose and it can do the same. 3) tension on the barrel from sling or rest; make sure when accuracy testing you are not placing the rest on the barrel or placing tension on the barrel via the sling mount. 4) muzzle device; some rifles like a heavier muzzle device, some a lighter. Not knowing how you have your rifle equipped, it may behoove you to add a flash-comp of some kind to reduce muzzle whip. The M77 has a medium to light contour barrel that I could see have finicky harmonics. 5) indian and not the bow; have you handed the rifle off to another user who is known to be a good marksman? Sometimes you need to take the you variable out to test and see what is going on, i.e., is it the indian or the bow? 6) gas block setting - if you are using the rifle at setting 2 or 3, you could be inducing high-recoil on you and bad harmonics to the rifle that will both throw you off. 7) finding the right load; it may be that your example of the M77 is picky. Stick to heavier loadings in the 155-175gr range with velocities around 2550 to 2750 FPS. In my opinion, a more “blunt” and higher set ogive bullet like the 165gr Sierra HPBT GK is a great match for both the OAL limitations of the magazine and the chamber of the M77. Those are some boxes I would check until you figure something out. It could be you got a “lemon” in the accuracy department, but there are too many variables out there to determine what is the culprit with the information you have given. I hope this helps you out.

[@sarico7827]

Oh man I really want this pretty lady and some extras. If I am lucky sometimes this year.

[@danicao.6778]

Is that Zastava opical sight!?!? Greetings from Serbia!!! 🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸 If not then he is just like him!!!

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

It has a Zastava branded M70 pattern 1913 optics rail mount with a Swampfox Tomahawk 1-6x24mm LPVO on it.

[@danicao.6778]

@@AmericanArmsChannel Similar to Zastava optic sight

[@jaysonyang1441]

Are you using setting 2? Or 1 on gas

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

Gas Setting 1.

[@ljolik2000]

good job! what is your cartridge over all length with Sierra Game King 165gr?

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

My OAL for the loading used in this video was approximately 2.700" - I maxed out what I could fit in the M77 Magazines then bumped it back to ensure reliable feeding in the stack. This seemed to work very well, but it's not like you have much of a choice unless you are single loading the cartridges. Thanks for watching and the comment. - Drake

[@ljolik2000]

@@AmericanArmsChannel simulation with GRT shows pretty high pressure (59056psi) at 2.7 OAL with 44.6gr.; take care

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

@@ljolik2000 that simulation estimate is still under SAAMI max by 2,944 PSI (62k max). As always, those who are considering a load like mine should work up and proceed with caution and an educated outlook on what will be best for them. Thinner primers with larger firing pin holes , like on the M77, will start to show flow at that pressure, though; it is a “false” sign however. The M77 is rated for .308 Win pressures (not just 7.62x51mm NATO), so it is for lack of a better term, a “safe” load. To combat primer flow, I have gone to the CCI No. 34 7.62 NATO primer and had good results. This also prevents slam fires with this rifle. The node for my rifle is at that 44.6gr mark with Varget, but I would wager other M77 rifles would like the load at 44gr and give a lower PSI if that makes the user feel more comfortable. Thanks for the feedback on the loading with GRT. - Drake

[@juanwick9290]

What charging extension is that???

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

It is the Carolina Shooter Supply Yugo Bolt handle extension. Not sure I can recommend it though… the last “run-n-gun” drill session I did with the rifle it came off and the threads had stretched and fatigued, so it is not able to be re-installed. I installed the extension per manufacturer instructions as well. Lasted about 600+ rounds before “yeeting” itself off the bolt handle. Currently I am looking for another option.

[@juanwick9290]

@@AmericanArmsChannel okay, I appreciate the response, thank you!

[@talbyjustus6403]

Does this gun have any issues feeding soft point rounds or polymer tips?

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

If it fits in the mag, it will feed it. I have never experienced a failure to feed or eject outside of introducing a severe amount of sand and debris into the action during a “torture-test”. I have fed my example soft points, FMJ’s, Hollow-Points, and polymer tipped projectiles.

[@daskommandantkrieger2503]

(Click! Looks back sheepishly at the camera) "Oh yeah! Dead center! Vegas, baby!" ;))

[@nickboutin857]

I had built an aero ar10, pondering the thought of selling it for an m77. Any thoughts on this? How has it held up, and has it been consistently shooting well since this video? Any info helps thanks!v

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

It shoots very well, and it has held up well in the first year and 1,000 rounds. I will be posting more content on this in the future.

[@talbyjustus6403]

What’s the best groups you could get with factory ammo? And what ammo?

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

I’ve not done much group chasing with factory ammo options; all handloads. M80 Ball and PPU 150gr softpoints will do about 2-3 MOA pretty consistently. I would anticipate a well made factory hunting or match round to do at least that. OAL of the round will be limited due to the magazine, so keep that in mind. No different than AR308/SR25 mags. There is no short-cut in finding good groups with a rifle or good patterns with a shotgun. Even if what I use works great, your mileage very well may vary.

[@talbyjustus6403]

@@AmericanArmsChannel thank you for your quick and helpful responses!

[@jackmorrow427]

I WENT WITH A1X10 ON MY RAK 308 C LIKE YOUR RIFLE BUT MORE LIKE A M76 MILLED RECEIVER IN 308 NOT 8MM

[@Jrh-rp7np]

Man I’ve been thinking about getting one of these ,,I have the Sig 716i which has been great,, but I’ve been wanting something with a 20 inch barrel,, I’ve thought about the SFAR or like a PTR-91 with an 18 inch barrel,,and most other options are over 2000 dollars which is getting ridiculous,, Actually, the whole industry is getting out of hand ,, I’ve been seeing old Milsurp rifles that used to go for 200 and under just 10 years ago going for 700 and more ,,, I have a Zpap M70 and that thing is a tank,and it loves to be fed., it eats everything…and asks for seconds

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

Consider the M77 as essentially an M70 with the same gas regulator as the M90. There is not much difference between the M70 and M77 overall, including accuracy potential. The M77 is not an M76 in .308 Win. I would consider a quality SR-25, HK G3/91 clone, DSA FAL, or other in the same price range as comparable rifles at similar price points. Thanks for watching and the comment. - Drake

[@Jrh-rp7np]

@@AmericanArmsChannel Yugo M76 in 8 mm Mauser would be a nice addition,,I’ve actually been looking at that M91 Zastava in 7.62x54R…Jesus I want everything lol …I’m actually literally going to an FFL to pick up a Beretta 1301 Mod 2

[@talbyjustus6403]

I bought one what Mount did you use for the scope?

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

Originally I had the Zastava branded mount (Made by UTG) and a set of Optics planet 30mm rings. That combination in addition to the Swampfox Tomahawk did not fair well. My M77 now has the AK Master Mount Yugo pattern mount with Vortex 30mm medium height rings and a Primary Arms PLS 1-8 ACSS Reticle LPVO. It is a much more solid set-up and has faired better thus far.

[@talbyjustus6403]

Did this Mount make you remove the front iron sight?

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

@@talbyjustus6403 No. it attaches via the optics rail and requires no modification of the rifle.

[@mrsmith9079]

God I want a semiauto rifle so bad

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

Get yourself to the states or a relatively "free" European country and that can happen! Best of wishes!

[@mrsmith9079]

@@AmericanArmsChannel The wheels are in motion

[@davidbell1619]

Pick up hand loads on battlefield. Interesting.

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

... Uh... What? I never said anything to that effect; I'm confused.

[@aaronsalek238]

I tried some Core Lokt 180 gr. through mine and it shot very well. I would LOVE to find some 165. I've loaded that same Sierra for a Winchester M88 and a Savage M99F in the past and gotten sub inch groups at a hundred. Very good bullets. I think 165 is the perfect weight for the .308

[@patrickclark9430]

Why not a 4-16? Get more out of that 308?

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

My thought process was that this rifle is a Battle Rifle first, a Designated Marksman’s Rifle/Semi-Auto Precision Rifle second. That being the case, an optic that handles close and medium range well is more applicable. This is also true for it’s role as a deer rifle. I am competent and capable with a sub 10 power optic, and the 1-6x is a very good range for a fighting carbine or battle rifle. Size and weight constraints on an already higher weight rifle is another reason to not equip it with an optic that tops the scales at 20+ ounces. It’s all personal preference in the end.

[@patrickclark9430]

@@AmericanArmsChannel makes sense.

[@jokebaker22]

Has a nice O-give? hahaha

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

Haha, I guess the proper pronunciation of ogive is "OH-jive", isn't it? Oops. LOL ...And I went to college for an BA in English... Some good that education did me. Haha! Thanks for watching. - Drake

[@TexasNationalist1836]

I dont think it was the dope on the rifle I think it was the dope behind the rifle

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

@@TexasNationalist1836 go ahead and upload a video of you learning your rifle and load data, bud. Show us the hits and the misses. I’m sure you’re perfect and won’t miss once or make a mistake to learn from…

[@TexasNationalist1836]

@@AmericanArmsChannel well I don’t competition shoot very much but when I was in highschool my 3 position air rifle team went to the national championship in camp Perry Ohio and Hays highschool red team the team I was on placed 4th and I personally would shoot around 280 out of 300 in total around 95 out of a hundred in each position it’s the fundamentals of shooting that make a person a good shot you have to practice trigger discipline breath control sight alignment and sight picture all that information about the shooting team is pubic information on the CMP website so you can look for yourself and trust me it took two years before it clicked but once it clicks you will be a better shot overnight because it’s all in the fundamentals and having it click in your brain

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

...Yeah, I've got the fundamentals. If you don't know the hold-over of a cartridge at a given distance and you can't see bullet 'splash' you're not going to have an easy time of connecting with the target at distance, are you? Air-rifle at 25M is not the same as a .308 win at 400 yards out of an AK pattern rifle. There is some learning curve there.

[@TexasNationalist1836]

@@AmericanArmsChannel you can still hear the steel ring nice try

[@AmericanArmsChannel]

What?... Brother, what's with the throwing of shade? I answer your questions on my other M77 vids to help you out to the best of my ability and on this one you start calling me a "Dope" and claiming "hurrr durr, it's not that hard, I know how to do it wit da air rifle..." Lecture me on shooting fundamentals, but I don't see you displaying your hits and misses on the internet for all to see. I'm no dead-eye, but I'm no putz either. That steel plate is 10" in diameter and suspended off the ground by about 6" with no hard back-stop directly behind it to determine where a round is impacting if it slips over, under, or to either side. I had hoped for some indication of short impacts in the snow, but 400 yards eluded me that evening.

[@velimirkolundzija4451]

It's Zaastaava!!! Not Zastaaava!!!

[@paunchouspilot6757]

Appreciate the load info. I recommend Strelok Pro ballistic app. Ordered the M77 yesterday. I guess this will be yet another cartridge I'll have to reload. Have fun.

[@bigingo4269]

nice i like it,