Zelda 1986: Rediscovered Lore & Timeline Placement | Episode 1

[@ganonfan]

Disclaimer: For the races section, I put Impa in the Hylians category, but we all know that Impa is a shiekah. Well, I did that because the shiekah haven’t been introduced in the series yet. Yes, you could argue that the hylians haven’t been properly introduced, but I feel like they were because of the pointy ears on some of the sprites, which is why I included them in this video.

[@lovkola]

@ganonfan congrats on 400 subs!!

[@Deltabolster]

Besides totk also confirms the 2 races as closely related

[@villain5873]

I never realized there were 2 types of old men. Hylian (pointy ears and in dungeons) and Human (round ears and above ground). Thanks ❤

[@andyduke6119]

"If your grandparents had an NES, your parents likely played Zelda." Took me a minute to figure out I'm the "parents" in that quote.

[@DemLep]

Ngl, the "If your grandparents owned a NES in the 80s then they most likely played this game, and your parents probably grew up on it" hurt a little bit. Only in my 30s, I know some people have kids that are mid teens or young adults at my age, but still. Also, I guess you could say my parents owned the console, but they never played it. It was very common back in the 80s and 90s for the kids to play the games and the parents not to. My parents didn't really play video games with us till the late 90s early 00s.

[@ganonfan]

@@DemLep I’m sorry you didn’t get to play older console games with your parents. Though I wasn’t born until after the 2000’s, I grew up playing on the Wii with my mom who really liked to play Mario kart Wii and Mario bros Wii. Eventually, I watched her play Twilight Princess, and immediately became the obsessed fan I am today.

[@DemLep]

@@ganonfan Oh, I and my brother got our parents into computer gaming in the late 90s/early 00s, like I said. And I still play games with them almost every weekend. But gaming parents were a lot less common back then. So it was more like that the kids played the game without there parents. I didn't have Zelda, but I had a friend that had the Gold cart and that was so cool.

[@Pichuscute]

Yeah, my grandparents died before this kid was born. They probably only barely knew that video games even existed. My parents have played a handful of video games (Dad has played some arcade games because he worked in an arcade, Mom has played a few hidden object games), but it's really not until @DemLep and my's generation that people actually grew up playing video games, honestly. Dunno if that means we're you're parents age or not. Maybe if your parents had you in high school? But just thought I should mention it.

[@ganonfan]

@@Pichuscute First of all, I am so sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine the feeling of losing your grandparents. But yeah, my mom was actually born in 1986, but I know a bunch of people from that time who played NES games when they were kids back then. Plus, I believe that the only BIG games on the NES at that time were Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Contra I think was kinda a big thing, and maybe Kung Fu. I don’t know, I thought it was a big thing back in the day, but I guess everyone does have different experiences when it comes to things like this.

[@damionmanuel7337]

I guess not being alive during that time kind of clouds things for you. I was born in the late 70's. There were some adults that played video games then, but for the most part it was just us kids in the 80's. And even then mostly nerdier kids. If you weren't nerdy and you had an NES you'd likely be mostly playing sports games. Gaming in the 2000's and up is a totally different thing than it was the 80's. As popular as Zelda is today it was just another game back then. There was no great excitement or press event when a new game got released. There was barely any coverage of NES games at all until Nintendo Power came along. To this day I'm still finding some hidden gems in the NES library. Making video games was just a way for a company to make money, nothing more, nothing less. The stories in games were pretty typical plot tropes that were just enough story to make a game's mechanics make sense. No game company was developing elaborate multi-game storylines. Going back before the nes most games were single screen experiences where the progress you made was measured by your score and not what story event you passed. If you hadn't played a game before or knew someone that had, you generally didn't know what you were getting until you bought it. There was no internet or video source to see the game in action. I think that's why so many crappy licensed games sold so well back then. You mostly bought a game based on the cover art. Video game commercials were few and far between in the US. I never saw the original Zelda commercials until I saw them on youtube as an adult. Maybe it was different in larger cities, but in rural America a lot of us only had over-the-air tv channels because satellites were giant expensive things and cable companies hadn't made it out there yet. We didn't have 24/7 cartoon channels that companies used to advertise stuff to kids. We only had Saturday morning cartoons until noon and after school for a couple hours on a few channels. Home video games were pretty niche until the 90's even if a lot of people owned console. It wasn't something that many people spent hours playing like they do today. I only knew a few kids that had a Super NES back then. The original Playstation is where I feel video games really started getting mainstream popularity and really not until late in it's life around 97-99. It was the Playstation 2 with it's built in DVD player and the Original XBox that made gaming popular enough that most people had a console.

[@lovkola]

Great video, really exited for the echoes of wisdom videos! Btw i feel so bad for you, hope you get no more hate comments. And i saw this on my phone, the sound quality was good. Take care!! 💛💛

[@senseker1]

IF YOUR GRANDPARENTS HAD AN NES. Come on man, I was born in 1984. I had an NES. No need to make me feel fucking old.

[@PureBloodedwolf]

Same

[@leandromafe]

Great video, I'm very excited for this series.

[@milestinker2178]

The first syllable in "labyrinth" is pronounced like "lab", not "layb". Ganon's title of 大魔王 ( _Daimaou_ , "Great Demon King" ) is pronounced like "Dye-Ma-Oh".

[@ganonfan]

@@milestinker2178 yeah, my Japanese is rusty as I am still learning it. It will improve over time as I keep learning and practicing!

[@lococomrade3488]

​@@ganonfan "labyrinth" isn't Japanese....

[@ganonfan]

@@lococomrade3488 I know that. I was talking about Ganons title when I said my Japanese was rusty.

[@lococomrade3488]

​@ganonfan Your English is rusty because you say labyrinth way more times and it's far more bothersome than one Japanese phrase no one knows.

[@redmage777]

@@lococomrade3488 Go easy on someone when they mispronounce a word... There is a good chance the learned it by reading.

[@Frisko555]

"Zelda [...] hid them throughout the realm" the word realm refers to an area ruled by a specific ruler indicating that the game does take place within Zelda's little kingdom. Conversely, Impa secretly escaped "into the land" thus she met Link somewhere in Hyrule outside of Zelda's kingdom. Most likely, to the south of the game's Overworld given Link's starting location. I would assume that Ganon and his army come from the land north of Zelda's kingdom since his lairs are located in the Death Mountain range which would also serve as a natural border. I suspect the large body of water to the east is the ocean. Thus, only the land west of Zelda's kingdom remains a mystery.

[@DemLep]

I agree with most of your points. The water to the East is definitely meant to be ocean, as we see more of the map in Zelda II. However, as to where Ganon came from I have a different suggestion, but it will be easier to explain when he has made it to A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, so I'll hold it till then.

[@ganonfan]

@@DemLep I will definitely talk a lot more about the map in Adventure of Link, but it’s hard to pinpoint where exactly in Hyrule we are in the first game with the information provided. But yeah, a lot more connections will be made in the future!

[@DemLep]

@@ganonfan Oh for certain. The map of Zelda 1 is in Zelda 2, so that is an easy connection. And then I have a different theory as to how the map of ALttP links up with the maps of Zelda 1& 2 then most.

[@Chowder_T]

I enjoyed the video, I look forward to seeing more of this series.

[@darkdagger5237]

The first thread of the timeline is now in place. I'm looking forward to seeing the complete timeline.

[@ganonfan]

@@darkdagger5237 I’m looking forward to how it will turn out in the end as well. I’m so glad I started this video series!

[@TheHaddonfieldRegistry]

I was just thinking the other day I wanted to see a series like this.

[@ganonfan]

@@TheHaddonfieldRegistry well, you’ve found the right place! Hope you enjoy it!

[@DemLep]

So the Text scroll isn't poorly localized. It was just poorly written. The text is the same in the Japanese version, written in English and everything. The R and L thing is a common quirk of translating Japanese into English since Japanese doesn't have a symbol for both R and L separately, but instead uses the same symbols. Take Krillin's name for example, a transliteration of the name is Kuririn. This comes up a lot. There are a few other letters affected by similar things. Just some tips as you work your way through. If you haven't yet you should check out Legend of Localization for more information. Great source. Also, not stated in this game or it's sequel, but important information that has been stated by the creators (I would have to dig up where it came from exactly), but like is 12 in this game.

[@ganonfan]

@@DemLep yeah, that’s a better way to put it. I just say localized because the people behind translating the games from those days were “localization teams” (at least I think so)

[@DemLep]

@@ganonfan Eh, less of a team and more just a person or few people in Nintendo of America or wherever. But that text is from the Japanese. So it was likely just a Japanese employee that had some knowledge of English.

[@HeitorSpecian]

Cant wait for the next video

[@ganonfan]

@@HeitorSpecian glad you enjoyed this one. Research on the Adventure of Link is going very well!

[@BusinessBlaze7]

LETS GO AWESOME VID IM EXCITED FOR THIS SERIES

[@ganonfan]

@@BusinessBlaze7 It will unfortunately come to a brief halt while I play Echoes of Wisdom, but I promise the series will continue!

[@solidmeboi5487]

Cant wait for more episodes!!

[@ganonfan]

@@solidmeboi5487 I’m glad to hear that. I just completed the Adventure of Link last night, so research has begun for the next episode!

[@darkdagger5237]

@@ganonfan Good to hear. How was the gameplay experience?

[@ganonfan]

@@darkdagger5237 I actually enjoyed the gameplay quite a bit. I really loved exploring in the top down perspective finding secrets areas and special towns with each including an old man. For the platformer perspective, I loved experimenting with the different spells and types of attacks (such as the up and down thrusts). In short, I thought the gameplay was very engaging, but I feel like the game gets challenging WAY too quick, and is nearly impossible for a casual gamer looking to play a Zelda game to complete without giving up after the first palace.

[@darkdagger5237]

@@ganonfan I got through by abusing enemy respawn mechanics to refill my magic.

[@amirhosseinmaghsoodi388]

For a long time I've thought over this. I wonder how similar our conclusions and deductions will be.

[@ganonfan]

@@amirhosseinmaghsoodi388 It will definitely be interesting, because everyone interprets the lore of the series in their own way.

[@seantaylor424]

I hate to sound like an Angry Fan, but I think there's at least 2 big reasons why a lot of people have trouble disagreeing on timelines. 1) As you point out in this video, the localization wasn't 100% on-point in the earlier games. As far as pre-2000's translations go, I'd say that Zelda 1 actually got as much of the Japanese intent across as possible and I would only blame hardware limitations from keeping the text from translating perfectly (since Japanese doesn't need as many characters to convey a meaning and how that would leave less room in the code for other language translations that you see in other older games). That said, the fact that there were discrepancies at all probably led to things like the cartoon being more inspired by a Bruce Willis movie than the games and may have taken the series a while to outgrow, leading to lots of areas for people to get confused by and/or disagree on. 2) Nintendo seems to want to make Zelda as easily-accessible as Mario and Pokémon. Based on Eiji Aounuma saying that he sees the series as a bunch of unrelated legends, things like Smash Brothers trophies and Hyrule Historia rebranding ReDeads into clay monsters rather than reanimated dead and the Nintendo Timeline including a "Ganon Wins Ocarina" timeline (which doesn't have any representation in OoT but DOES sound cool to people just getting into the series, since I thought it was cool when I first heard about it), I think Nintendo almost regrets the amount of work they put into the earlier games' interconnectedness and would rather treat all of their games as chances to come up with new gameplay ideas and write interesting stories but treat them all as one-offs, even though that's not how the series started. The second reason has come up in conversations I've been in at least twice and the first reason has historically led to gamers thinking things like Shen Long is a character in Street Fighter. These may not be the only reasons that keep fans from agreeing on things, but I imagine they play a somewhat big role...Unless I totally misheard Aounuma and nobody at Nintendo ever treated Zelda as an anthology. Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing how this all pans out and wish you luck piecing all of the stories and notes together and finding time to play the more narrative-heavy games and keeping track of all of those details!

[@Unkindpigeon.]

So for enjoying the idea. Loving criticism the audio in the video needs to be balanced better. Your voice needs to be louder with more treble and the interlude music in the video should be turned down a bit, the background music while you're speaking is at a good volume. Keep going though there are a lot of Zelda games to go through 👍

[@CallMetheMusicMan]

this is awesome

[@absolutomarco]

The invite for Discord is not working

[@lovkola]

Yeah, I have the same problem

[@ganonfan]

@@absolutomarco I’m sorry if it didn’t work. I thought I generated a lifetime lasting link, but it might of just send out the 7 days only link. Let me get a new one up and you guys let me know if it works or not.

[@DemLep]

@@ganonfan New link works.

[@chuck_e_steez]

Bro how old do you think the people watching this are 😂😂😂

[@grek543210]

~30

[@HeitorSpecian]

44 here

[@logandooley378]

I enjoy Zelda and I’m 17

[@DemLep]

Mid 30s

[@DudeManDude-ot5fv]

I'm 36

[@villain5873]

I too am hype for echoes of wisdom, the last Zelda games I played skyward sword and breath of the wild I don't like at all. I'm at the end of the game for both, and don't care enough to complete them.

[@villain5873]

Isn't Ganon's game over laugh the same as Mr. X in kiung fu.

[@ganonfan]

@@villain5873 I believe it actually is. That or some wrestling game that was on the NES. I know for sure it was reused though, just don’t remember the game.

[@Jeff_Kasmala]

It's reused in Punch Out

[@ganonfan]

@@Jeff_Kasmala aha! That’s what it was called! Thank you!

[@villain5873]

@@Jeff_Kasmala i forgot the laugh in punch out

[@angusmcphail7031]

Pretty sure the translation of the in-game story was first changed for the GBA port, rather than the mini NES. Was it not?

[@ganonfan]

I don’t remember it being in the GBA version, but again, I could be wrong. FYI Legends of Localization was my main source of information, and it has been pretty accurate when it comes to my research.

[@cooltaylor1015]

Are you going to get into the tv cartoon and the comic books?

[@ganonfan]

@@cooltaylor1015 I haven’t decided on those yet, but I think Inwill focus on the games first, and then decide if the other stuff fits on the timeline or not.

[@darkdagger5237]

@@ganonfan I think that it would be cool to see how the comics compare to the finalized timeline.

[@browncow5210]

As much as I adore Zelda 1, there's something big about the plot that doesn't make sense to me. If Zelda hid the fragments of the Triforce of Wisdom from Ganon, then why are Ganon's forces defending them in the dungeons instead of bringing them to their master? It could be that the dungeon enemies are impartial guards just doing their job and Link still needs to get through them, but several of them are also found in Spectacle Rock where they're clearly loyal to Ganon.

[@ganonfan]

@@browncow5210 yeah, that is very weird, and definitely something I failed to explore in this video. The only reasonable explanation is that Ganon, knowing about Zelda’s plan, sent his minions to prevent the hero from putting the pieces together, but why Ganon wouldn’t go after it himself is quite beyond me. Maybe he just isn’t that smart in this game, but yet again, he was intelligent enough to steal the triforce of power. Yeah, I don’t have an exact explanation, but I could discuss this in a future video and try to come up with a logical explanation.

[@darkdagger5237]

@@ganonfan In Zelda II the ancient king of Hyrule had placed monsters in the temples so that only his chosen one could obtain the Triforce of courage. Zelda could have done the same thing in Zelda I to prevent Ganon from obtaining the Triforce of wisdom.

[@ganonfan]

@@darkdagger5237 But weren’t the enemies in Zelda 2 created by the king as guardians? I could be wrong since I am still doing my research on that game, but all the enemies in the palaces seemed to be different from the minions of Ganon in the overworld. That’s just what I got from playing Zelda 2, but as I said, still doing the research.

[@darkdagger5237]

@@ganonfan From what I recall from the research I did the king of Hyrule did create the monsters found in the temples. I get what your saying here since the monsters in dungeon 9 in Zelda I are found in the other dungeons it would imply that they originated from the same source. This is one of the many odd details about dungeon 9 along with matching architecture and the fact that the Silver arrow is stored there as if Ganon did not build it. Think about it how did Ganon obtain the Triforce of power but fail to obtain the Triforce of wisdom. What if dungeon 9 was designed as a trap to contain Ganon.

[@ganonfan]

@@darkdagger5237 hmm, interesting. I do find this to be the most logical explanation out of all of them I thought of or heard from other people.

[@whtiequillBj]

One reason why Nintendo wouldn't put Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom on the timeline is cause they want to start over. They don't want to be constrained by prior games or the wants and whims of the fan base. They want to tell their story!

[@ganonfan]

@@whtiequillBj What you said here is what many fans don’t understand. I know that behind the scenes, the reason they don’t focus so much on the timeline is because they want to focus on the story of one game, without having to be like “oh, we can’t do that because (fill in the blank)”. However, I find it fascinating to delve into 20+ of their games, and figure out the timeline.

[@whtiequillBj]

@@ganonfan it is my opinion the official timeline feels like it was made by a committee to optimize profits and ability to make more games rather than homogeneity. Also Breath of the Wild was a response to Skyrim. Which came out very close to Skyward Sword.

[@JuilanXAnime3188]

@@ganonfanI totally agree I grow up pre timeline split with links awakening and post timeline split OOT and onwards The timeline split and continuity is the life blood of Zelda lore getting rid of that is like taking a huge Dump 💩 on a franchise literally I don’t care what Nintendo or you ignorant new noobs who are new to Zelda have to say aka you breath and Retcon badly story tears fans have to say in truth you really don’t deserve to have a question in this matter who never played and grow up with the bulk of the franchise I will never ever hear your noob voices ever This is exactly what I hate what happeneds franchise you always get these noobs who come in thinking they know more then the people who grow up and supported the franchise to begin with Nintendo again I’ll never listen to considering they want to make Zelda like Mario in terms of story when Zelda was never that Zelda has been connected since the beginning Zelda 1 to Zelda 2 Link to the past to links awakening OOT prequel adult and child Wind waker to spirit tracks and Majora mask to twilight Skyward sword is he origin point of everything Yeah anyone ANYONE WHO SAYS THERES NO TIMELINE you truly are the blue pillers of Zelda aka flat earthers Enough said Ps I took a hammer 🔨 literally to the physical copy I had of tears and then to breath as well since tears made breath F meaningless Here’s hoping Echo of wisdom actually turns out good I have my preorder ready but I won’t hold my breath and have my EXPECTATIONS low ass possibly Since Nintendo is just not the Nintendo they use to be of being very creative with story’s

[@ganonfan]

@@JuilanXAnime3188 Well, you’re entitled to your own opinion, but just to be clear I was raised on Zelda my whole life, so it isn’t fair for you to call me a noob who knows nothing.

[@JuilanXAnime3188]

@@ganonfan was or wasn’t? And what ever you say lol and the fact that you said who knows nothing YOU BLUE PILLER YOU DONT KNOW NOTHING you and everyone in USA are about to get destroyed me I left so have fun with your last Zelda game in this reality because war is coming for you 🔥 all HAVE FUN MOFO

[@nickb8755]

👀

[@RogerMedrano]

i just think, why do many people care if things are connected? i've been a zelda fan for 20 years and i never saw a reason for it to be the same world, or timeline, yeah the references to other games are cool, and the intro for the wind waker was a nice callback, but i've met people that actually gets mad, like really get extremely upset after you tell them that not every zelda game has to be in the same universe, last year i met a group of so called "zelda fans" that were so pissed with TOTK for retcon the BOTW story.

[@ganonfan]

@@RogerMedrano yeah, I don’t understand why TOTK needs to be hated for it not exactly connecting to the timeline. I think it’s great to play the games without focusing on the timeline. The reason I love figuring out a timeline is because I find the mystery and the puzzle of it so fascinating and fun to put together.

[@DemLep]

Most of the games were made with intention that they are a loose collection of tales that are in a connected world. That being said the timeline discussion should be something that adds enjoyment to the games, not to get mad over. And I think with the tangled mess the games have become starting fresh for 2 games, doesn't hurt anything.

[@rafaelmoura2103]

Some people just like to feel that with each game they are continuing an experience that they were having with other games, they dont want that experience to be negated by other games like it never happened, personally i dont care that much, but i do get specially excited when a game connects explicitly to a link to the past, like echoes of wisdom

[@anonamatron]

If your GRANDPARENTS had an NES? Dude how old do you think the NES is??? Lay-brinth? What the hell? Ok, you need to go back to school. Or just watch the movie Labryinth maybe... at least look it up in a dictionary!

[@andred1235]

Well my parents would have been the ones to own the NES and I'm 42 with an 18 and 14 year old kids so he wasn't that far off

[@ogemaweyaus4105]

Your content isn't good. Get good. But you get some credit for being a nerd.

[@ganonfan]

@@ogemaweyaus4105 well, everyone has their own taste in what type of content they want.

[@liaberigan1037]

geez wtf

[@AllTheSameSeam]

Bro 😐