Zenkai Boosts: What You Know Is WRONG?

In #DragonBallZ we found out that the Saiyans had a great rival in their earlier history, the Tuffles or the Tsufurians, depending on what you watched. We also know that the greatest powers Saiyans have is that of the Zenkai Power or Zenkai Boost or even Saiyan Power. This allowed them to heal and gain strength quickly...but was this power evolved or genetically added to them by the Tuffles? Let's talk about why this MIGHT be the case. The Origins of The Zenaki Power - SOLVED? #DragonBallSuper #DragonBall
MUSIC - Bruce Faulconer Medley/Dragonball Z - Rob Tando • Bruce Faulconer DBZ Pi...
SOURCE - www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/neanderthals-healthcare-practices-06525.html
This video is about us explaining the possible origins of the zenkai boost. Zenkai Boosts: What You Know Is WRONG?
• Zenkai Boosts: What Yo...
• Zenkai Boosts: What Yo...
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[@MasakoX]

Thanks for watching! Please be sure to subscribe and enjoy the video.

[@ZI66640]

Do what if Chi Chi was half Saiyan.

[@BladeForceandYugioh]

I always love your videos

[@shinoxknown502]

Insaiyan if you know what I'm saiyan

[@wavyoccean1120]

@@ZI66640 how would that work?? it sounds interesting but it makes absolutly no sense

[@MasakoX]

@@wavyoccean1120 Not necessarily. We don't know about Ox's partner. She could've been Saiyan without Ox knowing.

[@ShadowtheRonin]

"During that time of recovery a Saiyan is instantly learning from the experiences of the loss and imprints on the injuries so as to ensure that the mistakes that led to that boo-boo don't happen again." *_Vegeta wants to know your location._*

[@ravennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn]

“Saiyan’s are very loyal to one another,” *looks at Vegeta and Nappa*

[@twiztid6977420]

Vegeta didn't care about Nappa, but Nappa cared about Vegeta

[@AshleyRodriguez-uh2dn]

Vegeta is "unique "

[@barzfordayslol7343]

That was due to Frieza's rule making Vegeta more cruel than the average saiyan.

[@Xavier-the-voodoo-king]

@@barzfordayslol7343 vegeta isn't your average saiyan warrior HE IS THE LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYAN!!

[@IfritBoi]

@@barzfordayslol7343 Vegeta was a prick to everyone including the people he cared about. Frieza's rule didn't really do anything, even King Vegeta was like this. The fact that he was always like this naturally and was evil regardless is what made Vegeta's character development speak volumes in the first place. Bardock's squad and King Vegeta's retainers show a better example of what actual Saiyan nature was like.

[@Songforyall]

Goku's thoughts: Snail people? I wonder what they taste like.

[@sv32099]

"I hope they don't taste bland because then i can't salt them."

[@RuiLuz]

"hey Chichi got any snails? I'm starved!

[@jasonlisonbee]

@@RuiLuz Chi Chi: "Go see Piccolo about that." I know, not quite the same. Technically, allegedly, a snail without a shell _is_ a slug.

[@Eric-gp3hi]

Wow this is an interesting theory Tuffles genetically engineering the Saiyans to have Zenkai boosts. This really highlights the Tuffles aptitude for science. I hope we get to see more of the Tuffles in the future they are a interesting people. I also liked how you related it to evolution in our world through the Neanderthals how they progressed and lived in their society.

[@MasakoX]

It's a case of them trying to play with life and it backfiring. BADLY.

[@Bezaliel13]

​@@MasakoX Doesn't it just make more sense for them to have better healing from being violent?

[@jedipadwan20]

Hasatanel Belial yeah that would be better being a race of warriors who destroy for fun. What’s funny in a video game known as Assassin’s Creed there were a race of people known as ISU they made human with their dna making humans hybrid of them they made them be slave so I wonder if the Tuffles re-engineered the Saiyans to be a slave race for them

[@Bezaliel13]

@@jedipadwan20 What use would a slave race be to a society with the technology to "genetically re-engineer" though?

[@jedipadwan20]

Hasatanel Belial strength the stronger the Saiyan the more weight they pick up

[@nicwoolfe3885]

Zenkai's aren't native to Saiyans? That's Insaiyan in the Membraiyan!

[@MasakoX]

*90s disk scratching*

[@TheWarmachine375]

@@MasakoX Nappa: "I get it!"

[@user-if5cz9xx2g]

i am in pain.

[@TonyStark-vq9uu]

@@MasakoX i was the 69th like nice

[@rrose9161]

I agree wtf ( mostly because I think that S cells have something to do with the zenkai ability as well as super saiyan) meaning if zenkai's are not natural then neither is ssj

[@korviray]

So the thing that makes Saiyans saiyans is unsaiyan? That's insaiyan

[@MasakoX]

Just saiyan.

[@nassrjabakhanji338]

Why the salt to the wound?

[@saranlalmlal]

Omg this was good

[@TheWarmachine375]

@@MasakoX Badum tiss

[@jasonlisonbee]

Maybe the legendary SSJ could still have happened if this is all ancient history.

[@GTdba]

Yamcha:” I don’t know who this Zenkai dude is, but is seems Broken OP!”

[@TheWarmachine375]

Imagine if human Z-Fighters wished for Zenkai Boosts

[@dboymax1]

@@TheWarmachine375 in the fan manga Dragonball Z Elsewhere, Yamcha wishes for such an ability...

[@TheWarmachine375]

@@dboymax1 Ooh, that's awesome.

[@Dusxio]

That's... actually pretty interesting. The question of how Saiyans actually made it to the planet was never fully explained. And it kind of spreads the ugliness of the saiyan history a bit more rather than just 'saiyans are evil and the tuffles were poor innocent intellectuals.'

[@darrellsimon4462]

Funny enough in gt vegeta says the tuffles enslaved them

[@richardh9828]

And when are intellectuals really THAT innocent? In the animal world and the human society; the most cunning and smart beings tend to be the most cruel ones.

[@miguelruiz4613]

@@richardh9828 like dolphins and killer whales

[@georgehouliaras7239]

Zenkai is the the true personality of every Saiyan. Good or Bad, in the end, every Saiyan wants the same thing: Fight, fight, fight.

[@mr.patriotjol]

And food

[@freezingfire1800]

Rip tarble and broly

[@vanillacream2383]

That, transformations, etc.

[@Sean-rv5yp]

@@freezingfire1800 And Gohan and Pan and yes I know they aren't full bloodedsaiyans, but still

[@jedipadwan20]

Freezing Fire Tarble is still alive yes they never said his name in the Dragon ball Super Broly an Broly was in the movie I just a few words back.

[@joelsasmad]

Personally my theory was that Sayians have the blood of a formor god of destruction. This is why Beerus claims that the super saiyan god form is similar to a god of destruction as well as why Sayians are so battle centric.

[@morrigannibairseach1211]

This is a brilliant idea. I had always just thought that the Saiyans operated a fictional lamarckian type form of evolution but the hypothesis that the Tuffles brought a less advanced race to experiment on at home and enslave but eventually rose up under the power of the boons they had been given only to end up manipulated by space neocolonialists.

[@ArthurEKing8472]

I feel like you're probably onto something, HOWEVER, it's more likely that if the Universe 6 Saiyans are more soft-hearted, then it would NOT be the Zenkai that the Tuffles modified them with... It's Oozaru! Think about it. The Universe 6 Saiyans don't have a tail! And if they're more kind-hearted, than it makes sense that that "warrior" mentality was implanted in the Universe 7 Saiyans by the Tuffles, when they genetically modified them. In this case, it WAS an accident, but basically, the way I see this happening, would be the same as what you said, Tuffles abducted the Saiyans, and brought them to planet Plant, but why? To use as slave-labour! And genetically modified them, yes, using DNA from a powerful species of Ape... What they HADN'T counted on, was that the Saiyans DID have a natural reaction to blutz-waves which, when combined with the genetic modifications, causes the ape genes to go completely out of control, and becoming this massive, powerful, unstoppable ape-creature that later came to be known as Oozaru. And the whole thing with Yamamoshi happened BEFORE the Tuffle interference. (Which is why Super-Saiyan DNA was passed down, and made possible, but dormant within the code of the Saiyan race all this time.) Ergo, this is why Universe 6 Saiyans can still access Super-Saiyan and similar forms. Again, pure conjecture, but it's equally plausible.

[@ubermaster134]

This is so well explained! Nice.

[@ArthurEKing8472]

@@ubermaster134 Appreciated!

[@shrimpcactus5978]

That actually makes a lot of sense and would explain why they go on about pride. Cause at one time they didnt have any.

[@ArthurEKing8472]

@Eros Matthew Montallana I wasn't intending on it, but yeah! That's true!

[@darrellsimon4462]

So in your theory what would the sayians reaction to blitz waves be pre genetic engineering?

[@crisisamonginfinitedarthsa4220]

If humans got zenkais, Tien would be Earth's savior.

[@mikeval1525]

Crisis Among Infinite Darths AC but you can’t get Zenkais from self harm

[@masons.4489]

@Dinand Brittijn nah, Krillin. Yamcha does get the L a lot, but Krillin takes more damage since unlike Yamcha, Krillin actually tries to throw hands at the main bad guys so he takes more damage.

[@calummorgan2832]

Kriller time would actually be a thing

[@ianslee4765]

@Wuanslm ah yes. The worst running bit in the show because he really didn't get beat that badly.

[@helton3425]

@@ianslee4765 that is why they wreck him mentally too

[@ThatOneMotherfucker]

Therapist: Fused ZamaskoX doesn't exist. He won't harm you. Fused ZamaskoX: 2:54

[@LordYamcha]

One thing about Saiya Power is that people say it works when you get inflicted with damage not inflicted upon yourself but that's wrong- in the TOP the two gained power through battle and damage meaning that the power boosts can occur through damage inflicted on yourself

[@thesmilingknight4982]

They get stronger as they fight and when they recover from near death injuries thats how it works

[@chromebison5900]

Elite Saiyans could be a result of genetic engineering resulted from splicing Saiyan and Tuffle DNA. Vegeta is short when compared to other Saiyans which is probably a result of the Vegeta bloodline being descendants of hybrids who inherited the short physical stature of Tuffles. The benefits of Tuffle Saiyan hybrids probably have similar perks as Saiyan Human hybrids, but in a Saiyan/tuffle Hybrid, they gain both Keen Intellect and Raw power.

[@carson21211]

Good thinking. Would be kinda cool.

[@BastardOfTheNorth]

If ya cant beat em,breed em

[@donel532]

So does that mean that trunks has the most potential out of the saiyans

[@NessRandom1]

@@donel532 that could make sense

[@modelomegatyler]

@@donel532 future trunks maybe.

[@HalcyonSkies]

I've actually thought about Saiyan biology quite a bit. For instance why the super Saiyan transformation makes the hair change color and stand on end, how the Zenkai works, even the Legendary SSJ ability that OG Broly had and how that works and by extension the adaptability of the the new super Broly. It's interesting to discuss in terms like that, but then again I'm a bit mental.

[@BladeForceandYugioh]

What if the tuffles and Saiyans never had a war?

[@Iruka1991]

Freezer's army would've a ton of scientist

[@TheWarmachine375]

@@Iruka1991 And they Saiyan-Tuffle hybrids like the scientist lady in DB Super Broly movie

[@modelomegatyler]

universe 6

[@ShaimingLong]

I always understood the Zenkai boost to be more like a learning from superior or different power after having to very literally experience it throughout their body. So like, when Vegeta had Krillin blast him for a boost, that would be a one off boost unless Krillin somehow massively changed or developed his own power before blasting Vegeta again. Even though it's almost always explained as recovering from injury, I just take that as a simplified explanation. So big tournaments where Saiyans get to experience a big variety of different and stronger energies and powers, their bodies are rapidly learning and developing their own powers in response - which makes sense when you consider Saiyans always want to seek different and stronger powers, to challenge and learn from. Goku's seemingly natural ability to 'steal' moves and techniques from others also makes sense with this understanding of it. As well as Vegeta somehow adapting energy sensing after encountering the energy of those that use that ability. I may be completely wrong, but this way of looking at it seems way more reasonable to me, than simply taking heavy damage and recovering over and over and over ad infinitum.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

I really dig this idea, it makes the whole saiyan-tuffle conflict more tragic and the Saiyans slightly less one note.

[@Stephanie-kh6nx]

This is why I always thought Future Trunks got so powerful because he was always fighting to near death in his time and learning from his battles, especially with the time he was constantly fighting Goku Black (a year at least) which led him to going Demi-God/God form in anime. Because think of how many times he was possibly beaten to near death-it makes so much more sense, especially in manga when his level 2 SS form could take on Goku, who had to go god form to beat Trunks in their skirmish. Then he trained with his Dad who was god form during their training, it just makes sense for Future Trunks to have his own god form. Especially since the series literally say Trunks: The One who Inherited the Saiyan Cells in the title of one of the episodes of Super Arc.

[@SaiyanHeretic]

So we've come back around to the anime filler backstory that the Saiyans were a slave underclass to the Tuffles.

[@BastardOfTheNorth]

Slave?

[@Thund3rDrag0n12]

They weren’t slaves. They merely inhabited the same planet. The Tuffles civilized and advanced while the Saiyans powerful yet rudimentary. Then a full moon happened and big monkey go stomp. Also, every single backstory of the Saiyans is technically filler. We never really got a proper backstory as to how Saiyans came about to be the prevailing species on the planet. And I’d take Tuffles over snail people anyday

[@MRDRK1]

Important question: Has there ever been an official statement from the writers that the Saiyan Zenkai is loosing potency? That there are diminishing returns in the Dragon Ball Super timeline? I ask because I just recently looked back at the Frieza arc, where Goku goes from base 90k against Captain Ginyu, to base 3 Mil against Final Form Frieza (50%). That is a ridiculous amount. Have there been other Zenkai's of similar magnitude that I haven't realized?

[@rrose9161]

For the record there are two maybe three reasons why we don't see zenkai's like that after namek 1: vegeta said that the namek zenkai were abnormal 2: super saiyan 3: no opportunities like on namek happened again ( extent of damage and healing )

[@ChaddyFantome]

I actually think the explanation of the Tuffles importing the Saiyans to their planet actually mayes WAY too much sense.

[@Vandalia1998]

I’ve wondered if Goku’s first One happen when He was defeated by Tao before climbing 🧗‍♀️ the tower

[@NieroshaiTheSable]

Possibly from his amnesia-inducing concussion

[@Naruku2121]

I think Krillin made a mention of how Goku always seemed to improve after a defeat.

[@wavyoccean1120]

the intro: I'M JUST SAIYAN :D

[@MasakoX]

Wakka wakka!

[@shinoxknown502]

Insaiyan if you know what I'm saiyan

[@balanc-joy9187]

The idea that the Zenkai might have evolved to make the Saiyans more liable to help each other and survive is a rather fascinating idea...

[@rrose9161]

I also had the same idea ( I also think that not only are S cells responsible for ssj but are also the primary component of how zenkai boosts work hence why zenkai's became more potent the closer a saiyan got to 3 million bp, also combined with ki sensing and an active threat toying with other detected power signals and you get goku's ridiculous zenkai on namek)

[@tregrenos8615]

The mutation that makes Broly so strong may have to do with his Zenkai being overcharged. Let’s say that the “combat potential” read at Saijin infancy was less of a Ki thing and more of a physical reading that determined the general Zenkai potential of the Saijin. The higher the reading the more their Zenkai would kick in to raise their overall strength through combat. Broly, however, was always running overtime and the slightest push would cause his Zenkai to react, pushing his strength until he could push back. Unlike others where injury may be required Brolys actively made up for the difference, not needing a physical injury before his body replied.

[@wiibrockster]

Zenkai Boosts are pretty overpowered yet it works well for a warrior focused race like Saiyans.

[@WhitedMaskVarré]

Imagine getting hurt on purpose and keep using senzu beans, you'd be beerus level.

[@generalgrievous677]

That's exactly what Goku did on his way to Namek

[@daviddoesstuffandthingigue966]

Masako:STANDO POWA Me: *kars laugh*

[@Deathnotefan97]

I always saw the Zenkai boost as a way for a Saiyan to not grow weaker I think it was filler, but after the battle with Vegeta, when Goku was in the hospital recovering, he mentioned he could feel himself getting weaker as he was bedridden, but he got a Zenkai after eating a Senzu bean and healing instantly My theory is that without the accelerated healing of Senzu beans or modern medicine, the Zenkai will boost power more or less in line with the power lost from recovering, allowing a Saiyan to not fall too far behind Because even just a week spent recovering from injuries could take a month or longer just to get back to the level you were at before, which for a warrior race is basically a guarantee that you'll fall behind your peers As such, the Zenkai evolved as a way to greatly reduce the time needed to get back into fighting shape after an injury, and therefore didn't act as a "boost" in power until they got access to advanced medicine to speed up the healing process

[@Morlun91]

Plot device boost. My headcanon is that it wildly loose efficiency once a sayan gets closer to his full potential and becomes a ssj.

[@bucket4255]

Yeah. I mean, maybe it's just to prepare for Super Saiyan, so the body can actually handle it?

[@psyxypher3881]

I don't think that the Zenkai is specifically "get stronger because you got injured". I think that's just a side effect. As a combat-loving species, Saiyans would need to heal quickly in order to survive. So in the case of serious injuries inflicted by an outside source, the body's natural healing "overcompensates", so you're boosted back to where you were, plus some extra developments because your body's natural healing went into maximum overdrive.

[@devilfromhell8546]

2:53 i was definitely not ready for that

[@Cenan80]

Didn't Goku inflict wounds against himself in his training in preparation for his battle with Frieza back during the Frieza arc? He healed himself up with senzu beans.

[@thesmilingknight4982]

I am 100% sure he didnt gain a zenkai boost from that training

[@Cenan80]

@@thesmilingknight4982 Maybe it was a manga only thing, because I remember it being referenced that Goku was taking advantage of the zenkai boost during his training.

[@BastardOfTheNorth]

Maybe they were all smaller because they were self inflicted

[@Cenan80]

@@BastardOfTheNorth If only Toriyama laid down some more concrete rules about how zenkai's worked, right? XD But seriously. Vegeta loses on Earth, heals up and is suddenly on par with Zarbon and Dodoria. Another heal later and he's just under Recoome and still another heal later he's sparring with first form Frieza. Goku, who starts weaker than Vegeta, trains for a short period of time, inflicts harm to himself with his kame hame ha, heals up and then he's just under Captain Ginyu. Another heal and then he's trading blows with final form Frieza.

[@RWAsur]

Wow I love this theory. Thanks for sharing it!!

[@SuperBadspeller]

12:28 I always thought though little mollusk people wore the tuffle

[@matthiasthemagician6803]

Well going off of the fact Shallot from Dragon Ball Legends is able to get Zenkai boosts, I am going to say that the saiyan race has always had them.

[@shrimpcactus5978]

This is unrelated but I have a theory as to why no Saiyans could go super for so long. Maybe at one point the Saiyans were more docile and kind, however they were still warriors. So since they were kinder they had more s cells within them meaning more super Saiyans would be made. So then the saiyans caught the attention of someone because of the unusual transformation and their power. Perhaps someone had a grudge against Saiyans and in order to be sure that the Saiyans couldn't stop him or her, they used some sort of ability to make the Saiyans cold and ruthless and evil by nature. This would stop that unusual transformation and therefore sealing off the power of the Saiyans. They just weren't expecting goku.

[@devildog1989]

Tuffels, the Salarians of the Dragon Ball universe.

[@wiibrockster]

Those "Plantians" could be the ORIGINAL natives of Planet Vegeta and maybe the Tuffels were also an invasive species? Maybe one day they showed up and wiped them out to settle that world for themselves

[@SB-xj8xj]

So what you're saiyan Masako is that the Tuffles could have been responsible for creating the zenkai boosts with their technology. Not only is that Unsaiyan it is Insaiyan!

[@maxstone3779]

What if the Tuffles goal was to create an army to fight King Cold? Would that explain Freezor's distrust of them?

[@ogun4921]

Now THIS is an intriguing theory. It always catches my attention when certain narratives might not have been as cut and dry as we may have suspected, or even not truly that way at all, what with us only having received choppy input from either side. Also, now I've got an idea in my head of Masako dressed up like Phoenix Wright and pointing while shouting "Conjecture!". Do with that what you will.

[@KurstKensei]

Does this have to regard what Hyorinjutsu's videos when he brings up Zenkai boosts?

[@CreamerOfTheDairySquad]

My wife and daughter LOVE the Ranch-chan plushie i bought them! We need more R&R

[@crazygamer-tg9bz]

when are we getting "what if future ranch went to the past part 4" its been 6 months hope it comes soon

[@LightbladeRiulo]

"it might be unsaiyan" But thats Insaiyan!

[@Godzillawolf1]

*Hears comparison to Namekian healing factor* And with that, you realize a human, Namekian, and Saiyan fusion would be one of the most overpowered things to ever exist.

[@MasakoX]

And most profitable.

[@miguelruiz4613]

What would happen to the arms that were ripped off anyway?

[@pyriel6870]

It makes more sense for Frieza and Cold calling the Saiyans "monkeys" because they knew of the Tuffles experimental genetic modifications to them. Perhaps the Ozaru (hope I spelled correct) transformation is the Saiyans original form and the full moon or Blutz waves temporarily reverts them back to their true form. That makes Frieza's insults much more clever. Also makes you wonder if Saiyans were modified to be more humanoid by the Tuffles, then does that also tie into "S-cells" and the Super Saiyan transformations. Could open up quite a large discussion about all this.

[@KamiAnimeS1]

Zenkai are always a thing everyone knows ok they always get every time they get battle damage but it doesn’t really matter now since they are dealing with God‘s power levels are insane so it doesn’t really matter unless unless they just stab there self every day and get a zenkai boost

[@luminaire4946]

The zenkai caveat of no self inflicted wounds was also forgotten when goku was training to go to namek. It was mentioned in the manga that he was getting stronger do to working himself to near death and then eating a senzu to recover. Those would technically all be self inflicted injuries.

[@rrose9161]

Only because he put himself in a dangerous environment

[@volkanmeral1993]

Congratulations,you just blew up my Brain with just One sentence

[@MRDRK1]

Awsome theory! Love it!

[@sethdell3978]

I always wandered how the Zenkai boost works in relation to the gods or God ki. I.e. Did Goku or Vegeta get a boost after being flawed by Beerus?

[@christophermedina4849]

Ooooo. *takes notes for a potential fan fic novel. 👀

[@Bonzothefifth]

Take this a step further: Could the Tuffles have actually DESTROYED the U7 Sadala, 'aquiring' the remaining Saiyans to their planet? That'd be a bit tragic to have the Saiyans lose *two* different homeworlds. Would also make the Saiyan overthrow of the Tuffles a bit more justified than 'because reasons', as well as partially explain the U7 Saiyan's almost deranged relationship/obsession with strength, power, and pride compared to their U6 counterparts, who seem to have a more well rounded outlook and compartment overall...

[@MasakoX]

Precisely. It makes their tussle all the more intriguing and as you say, makes the Saiyans not the outright bad guys.

[@someguycalledgoober155]

Expanding this a bit, what if the Cold Force commissioned the Tuffles to do it? After all, the force uses the Scouters and Saiyan armor. Perhaps they made a deal, with the Tuffles working on genetic engineering for the Frost Demons (I know they're not really called that, but I think it's cooler than "Freeza Race".) at first, then when the Saiyans "showed up" the Frost Demon leader (Maybe King Cold) had them do similar experiments on the "lesser lifeforms". Narratively it'd be neat to see that both these races ended up making the weapons of their own destruction. If you want to put a tinfoil GOKUU hat on, maybe the Tuffles -not so- accidentally created the Super Saiyan? The legend being a lie of a glorified lab rat? We know that Super Saiyan God was the transformation used by Yamoshi, but maybe the golden aura we see isn't really a part of them? Though this is complicated with Universe Six Saiyans also having the ability to go gold. Take it with a grain of salt.

[@frostyboi4078]

Saiyans gain a boost in physical power after recovering from a near death injury. Neanderthals gain a similar boost, but instead of physical power they gain intelligence.

[@kingshifty557]

The saiyan handbook guide would never lie to me!

[@justgivemeafunkinnam]

The thing with episode of bardock is that its suppose to show just how much Frezzia family has had with the sayians and showing why they are such rage monkeys. They start out fine, freezia family hits, who knows how long ago it was but for throw in evolution and the loss of history of that time at least once. Frezzia family made their own killers over probably millions of years. We only look at the kais as being millions or billions but its reasonable to assume that freezia family is also. That would fit with a style of the story and always introducing new ancient age faction.

[@TheRealSpiderMew]

1:44 Your stand power joke made me think. Is Hit supposed to be Jotoro? Dude with an attitude who keeps his hands in his pockets and can stop time.....

[@Mikewright143]

It doesn’t allow them to recover faster it just allows them to get a boost from ear death

[@russelltietjen4407]

I imagine the reason Saiyans don't just self-harm to gain Zenkai is because they know it's total hax, and given they're all about pride and improving through battle, the idea wouldn't appeal to them. It's the same reason Vegeta didn't do any of the training methods Goku did back in the day - he wanted to beat him with his own power that cultivated himself through hard work.

[@solaris9426]

The "Snail people" are not the Saiyan ancestors. That was something TFS invented. In the actual movie, they never reveal what they are, but since Super revealed that Saiyans originated from Planet Sadala, it can be inferred that the people in the Super Saiyan Bardock special are Tuffles.

[@Saanail]

MasakoX canon is far superior (in lore and interest) to Toriyama canon.

[@derianvandalsen]

What if the current Saiyan form is the result of Tuffle hybridization experiments? (Not unlike how modern humans also carry different degrees of neanderthal dna.) *The Great Ape is supposed to be a Saiyan truest form. *Throw some Tuffle traits in there to humanize them, and BOOM; modern Saiyans. TL;DR Planet of the Apes meets Captain America, but it went more in the way of The Hulk (minus professor Hulk). The main difference between universe 6 and universe 7 could be that in 'our' universe the Tuffles chose to ship the modern Saiyans out to planet Plant, whereas in universe 6 the hybrids remained on planet Sadala and outperformed the Great Ape species up to their current point. Since the Saiyans in universe 6 have been limited to their own corner of the galaxy, they weren't as much of a threat as they were in universe 7. Shipping them out might have been the final nail on the coffin, prompting Beerus to charter Freeza to destroy (both of) the planet(s). In a way, the Tuffle's super soldier program may even have been a failed partnership with king Cold, and as such it was he and Freeza who had to clean up their mess. But I digress.

[@jermainekngdom3154]

Big problem. Other than universe 2 and 6 ruffles are mostly humans. Non-canon ruffles varies greatly.

[@user-kz9er3ne5i]

That's an interesting theory! Although i have one on my own: what if that spaceship was of one lf Frieza's race? We know basically nothing of them. The biggest mystery in dragon ball hasn't been explored

[@robertpirtle784]

I wish Toriyama would implement alternate timelines and make good Raditz and Ranch a thing. At the very least work with you to make R&R a legitimate spin-off.

[@piccilo72]

Genetic modification could explain why U6 saiyijins don't have tails and are smaller.

[@franciscopereira7798]

Aren't tuffles non canon?

[@MasakoX]

It's a very odd situation. Tuffles are a good addition and they are now part of Super's lore so...it's a mixed bag.

[@HSuper_Lee]

I've come to the realization over the years that Dragon Ball is a lot like any real world mythology. Some of the stories you can put in a kind of timeline with eachother, but there's no real canon as many contradict one another or have alternate versions with small to large variation. It's fine, so long as you enjoy each story (in this case essentially each story arc) on its own and understand you won't be able to fit them together like a perfect puzzle.

[@NinjaKIngAce]

You used Zenkai Boost and Saiyan Power interchangeably, but from what I understand, they're two different abilities that Saiyans have. Zenkai Boost is a boost in power Saiyans get after recovering from a serious injury. Used most notably in the Frieza Saga. However, it's rarely, if ever, mentioned past the Cell Saga. This is because the boost is not large big enough to make a huge difference. Saiyan Power, on the other hand, is a Saiyan's ability to push past his/her limits in the midst of battle. Used throughout the series, but most notably during the Tournament of Power, where every Saiyan (save for Gohan) gained a new transformation and/or a boost in power. But that's just my take

[@ianslee4765]

So... north galactic slave trade. And that would make sense with freezas empire essentially acting after the sayains gained "freedom" just to be reenslaved

[@ryudragon7]

If a Saiyan uses the replication technique and fought themselves to near death. Then merged back together and healed. Would they get zenkai boost because it was a clone of them, or would it be considered self-inflicted wounds?

[@Darkcloudalpha]

A few thoughts on this. First I don't think the increased aggressiveness is just from genetic engineering but mental conditioning. I think it was filler but it was mentioned that Saiyan children were conditioned in their pods. So the Tuffles engineer the Saiyans to be stronger. Condition them to be more ruthless than they may have been otherwise. This would be supported by the fact that most Saiyans, when allowed to live in a more peaceful environment, tend to become less aggressive or peaceful (Goku, Vegeta, Broly and presumably Tarble). The Tuffles would have raised children in the birthing chambers for the assumed reason of maximizing their warriors available and to make sure their warriors were conditioned to be aggressive and loyal. The aggressiveness conditioning overrode the loyalty which lead to King Vegeta's rebellion. King Vegeta keep the program going either because he didn't know better or saw it as a benefit to himself and his people. Second would be the tails and the Ozaru form which as far as we know the U6 Saiyans don't have. This theory would lead the the U7 Saiyans having a tail not being a simple evolutionary difference but apart of the experimentation of the Tuffles. If we assume the Saiyans were evolved from the Ozaru then the Tuffles could have brought out the form with their tinkering, otherwise there could be a separate race of Ozaru out there that the Tuffles engineered into Saiyan DNA or it could be a completely original form created for battle (I mean we know how good the Saiyans were at conquering planets). We could make a argument the Tuffles would have thought it would be a low risk to themselves considering how rare the Full Moon is and if they thought the Saiyans were conditioned to be loyal. Final thought was that there may be unaltered U7 Saiyans on U7 Saldea. Their history would be corrupted by the Tuffles after all. Thoughts?

[@rrose9161]

Cabba a universe 6 saiyan said that the saiyans used to have tails but evolved to not have them in u6

[@shamusfarmer]

Here's a video I'd like to see:. Why don't (or do they?) Saiyans seem to have formalized martial arts as humans do? Why doesn't Vegeta, the cream of their crop, not fight very differently from Goku with some kind of exotic style?

[@Koppu1doragon]

I don't see much history getting fleshed out unless it's a visit to the past which would usually be covered by Xenoverse. Can't say I could see Beerus allowing any more time fuckery.

[@Necronamakhan]

I was also thinking that how the flash back depicted a drastic size difference between Saiyans and Tuffles. If Tuffles were human sized then maybe the modern Saiyans are really Tuffle/Saiyan hybrids. But I guess if Shallot and Giblet are ancient Saiyans then I guess that might not be the case.

[@martijnvanweele6204]

I do love a good old Faustian rebellion...

[@duburakiba]

maybe the sayions keep anyone useful from the tuffles and we end up with most sayions a decade later actually being half Tuffle and thats were the Zenkai boost if the tuffles master genetics then there race could be born genetically perfect if they get hurt and survive there genetic modification fixes and improves the damaged area so half breeds would be what we know as full blooded sayions with zenkai

[@antoinewilliams290]

Saiyans are pretty much like Spartans when you think about it if you look at the trivia.

[@KraigZero]

I think the zenkai has always been with the saiyans the tuffles brought them into their planet and tried to exploit them because of that, and then it all went to hell because the saiyans didnt want to remain like lab rats or a meat shield for them with no benefits. i think the zenkai idea was brough up because in real life you can get stronger, maybe not through sheer damage but it still happens with deseases.

[@brunoperez5062]

What I don't get is how nappa vegetta and raditz didn't get zenkai While training for like 20 years but then vegetta passes from the 18000 to the 2000000

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

I think Cells "senkai" was more assimilation. He collected more material during battle and was just rebuild according to latest specifications. If anything only a small part of that was senkai. I mean he even got instant transmission from that. Senkai usually doesn't learn them new skills. I mean that does sound like a Cell thing doesn't it, that's his whole thing after all. If it was just accumulated strength a few million humans wouldn't have helped fighting Picolo at that stage. But if we consider everything, all available genetic quirks and probably even accumulated knowledge.

[@Sean-rv5yp]

Wait so do humans and namekains also get Zenkais, just not to the same extent as saiyans?

[@Naruku2121]

Well techincally Humans do but in a much smaller scale, it's basically the reason the human body adapts through physical training, muscles basically tear and repairs itself after rest, and then whatever work out you done before may not do that much to you, so you increase the strain in your next secession and so on. Saiyans bodies just have that ability on steroids that it can even apply to injuries, which unfortunately the Human body doesn't cope as well.

[@trueblackknight8409]

Sounds like it could make amake a good movie 🍿

[@thecreatorofthedark]

I think cells zenki was from the interactions with freiza and sayian dna

[@BenFan-hx6ih]

if Ben Tennyson turned into a saiyan, got a near death injury, then turned into Swampfire to heal, will he get a zenkai once he transforms into a saiyan again?

[@mishtamoose8308]

If I had the power of a zenkai boost, then I'd have 2 zenkai boosts. Which isn't a lot but its wierd it happened twice.

[@YourBoyNobody530]

I am surprised that Goku, and Vegeta don't drag Denday into the room of spirit and time then blow each other up for Denday to fix them, and take a bunch of sensu beans in there to do it none stop till Goku and Vegeta are unstoppable because in theory doing that everyday for a year would give them an insane boost in power to the point where they just trounce everything aside from gods of destruction in seconds Jiren well who needs ultra instinct when you just take a dump in face.

[@LordOfHunger777]

Very interesting.

[@MrRatchet12661]

The Grand Tsufurian Conspiracy Theory #2

[@saltystick_99]

Missed opportunity to say "The thing that make Saiyans, Saiyans, might actually be 'in-saiyan' (Insane) "

[@MasakoX]

I known. How Insaiyan of me.

[@onasknox9284]

Cool idea

[@Bezaliel13]

Wasn't the "snail people" being ancient Saiyans just from the abridged.

[@jamiecranton]

Im not sure if it's vegeta or radditz but one of them also knows about hybrids and how they have the potential to be stronger then pures. So it's possible the tuffels and saiyan bred at one point. I've always had a theory the original super Saiyan is a hybrid as a normal Saiyan (cave man days) probably wouldn't have had the emotions to go ss

[@Naruku2121]

I think Nappa and Vegeta both knew something, they had a slight mention to it on their way to Earth.

[@FiloDeSarten]

Wouldn't those snail people from bardock's episode actually be the ancestors of the tuffles since they are in planet plant wich is the home world to them and not the saiyans, who suposedly come from planet sadala, conquered plant and renamed it vegeta?