Oil in your wax!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

sorry a weird thing with "TEXT" appearing on intro - i think the only way to get rid of it is to cut that section on in edit on YT. Far out wondershare (or me... but at this stage im blaming wondershare hahahaha)

[@10100110101]

I love the quirks of the videos. Noise in the background, too bright, parts repeated. You never know what’s coming. Haha.

[@adadinthelifeofacyclist]

Have you tried banging it?

[@freondakilla]

around 27 minute mark, the video looped about the minnesota winters

[@markifi]

that's fine, i bet most of us listen to this like a podcast while doing something else and not looking at the screen all that much

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@10100110101 ha yeah i had to keep the test machines running and hope the new mic filters out mostly :). And every upload is exciting for me too hahahahaha

[@Joshuavoice29]

Congratulations on the win!

[@CMneilB]

Congratulations on the win Adam.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

As a Canadian I've been experimenting for years with cross country skiing waxes mixes, it's a far more potent alternative than only relying on oils, even paraffin oil will be "expulsed" as the wax cools down and crystalize.

[@gavinhdouglas]

Congratulations Champ! 🎉

[@wtran87]

24:11 I've had an interesting experience with frozen wax on some of our coldest days last year (-8C to -10C) - coming out of my relatively warmer garage (5-10C), the chain would be running fine, but once I stop pedaling and the chain has a chance to freeze back to ambient temps, it would start binding up as it has to break through frozen wax again - as I keep pedaling, the wax in the pins/rollers goes back to being malleable, and then runs fine again until I come to another stop at a light when it again has enough time to freeze again!

[@johnduggan4993]

Duolicating coverage of Molten Speed Wax recommendations at 26:11 Congrats on the well-earned win. I'm looking forward to seeing how well plain vanilla paraffin + drip wax will get me through the brutal Korean winter. You had previously described the Effetto Mariposa Flowerpower Wax as having a consistency between wax and oil. Wonder what wet weather/winter experiences you've heard about on that one.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

havent heard too much about effetto and winter - i am not sure on how big the flower power market is overall. it is a great product but it runs black looking so less visually clean than ss drip, ufo etc - and it doesnt mix and match very will with immersive waxing so its a bit of an outer for that demographic. This means cleaning maintenance with a product like alpine extra (a lot of solvents dont work on wax, so you need one that does) - which would limit things a bit if needing to be cleaned regularly due to conditions vs being able to pop into wax pot. Plain paraffin will go great - cheap paraffin often means one doesnt stress about throwing their dirty chain in, and it doesnt cost you much to replace the wax frequently - so its a great option as long as its treatment lifespan lasts your normal ride.

[@AllanHundeboll]

I use MSW immersive/Ufo drip hybrid on my expensive 2x12 spped Shimano Ultegra di2 drivechain. Pure parafin/ufo drip hybrid on my cheaper 2x11speed Shimano 105, and silca synergetic on my 100usd Shimano deore 1x10 mtb. I store my bikes inside at 20°C and humidity controlled ventilation. One time I didn't bother wiping a waxed chain after a semi wet ride resulted in surface rust after 2 days. My daily mtb rides almost always includes wet sections so that's why I decided to use synergetic on the mtb. But now I do wonder how parafine mixed with a little synergetic would perform? I'm guessing it could potentially be very cost efficient....@@zerofrictioncycling992

[@toddflanagan7707]

running two chains with connex links (no tool removal) is really a good system. Being able to get off the bike and just pull off the chain really gets you to this place where you always have a bike that runs great.

[@TnFruit]

Hi, which immersive wax is not compatible with which top up wax and why?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

at the moment the officially recommended wax drips to use with a top IM wax is a bit limited as testing of this has been also a bit limited due to resources. In short the top ones are using a refined wax base and so get along well with the IM waxes. Others that work well ish are say squirt and smoove and grax - but we believe they use slack wax as base wax which is more oily (much more oily..). So re waxing over the top of those sometimes always doesnt go as well, especially over multiple coatings. It can be then that the IM wax treatment doesnt like it normally would as it isnt getting access to clean clear chain metal if the old wax coating is melting off the same. Other wax drips of a completely different wax such as Flower Power - similar thing.

[@joshuabuilds3051]

I can't edit my comment from mobile. I had chain rusting issues with msw immersered chains in Ohio and Colorado winters. I commuted though the slop while still breaking in a wax treatment, and when I would return to my bike 8 hours later there would be a layer of surface rust between all of the inner plates and rollers. It wouldn't be as bad when I removed the chain entirely, wiped it, and let it hang dry all before I clocked in. But then you start to see where waxing becomes a bit of a faff If i have to rewax every other day running 2 chains to combat the rusting. This was using HG-901 chains which I think you mentioned as being rust prone, but a nightmare nonetheless. I since remedied the situation by moving to Las Vegas.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

yep some places the chain will start rusting whilst at work - so its the same there as at home really - have a cloth and some wax drip like silca SS, TT All weather, ufo drip and when at work wipe chain and add a coating. If still and issue, quick spray with IPA , wipe, then add lube. Do that all week until do a re wax on weekend to reset. it is going to be a mild amount of faff but it is literally a circa 1 min job to spray, wipe, whack on some wax drip and back pedal in. The other option is to use lubricants where the reset is simply much more faff than the weekend re wax, or - as is common - the resets are very few and far between in which case the cost is a bunch of drivetrain components come winters end. It is just a really really tough lubrication challenge, there is no time free or pain free bath to have a part working so hard in such conditions be always running lovely lubricant. It is a matter of choosing which path is least painful - and that can depend on how much ones parts cost...

[@MrJob91]

​@@zerofrictioncycling992i use kmc ept or dura ace grade chain to combat rust. The salt is the problem

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@MrJob91 yep for sure it can be, the main thing that can catch out a bit with anti corrosion is it can lull one a bit re whats happening on the lubrication front. If you are riding on salted roads and are able to quickly look after a normal chain so that it doesnt rust (and you aren't using oil but wax / wax drip) - then more than likely you are doing a better job keeping lubrication on a better front. Some of the most intrepid commuters have 2 or 3 chains on rotation. They do a spray and wipe and whack on some wax lube when get to work, then pop chain back into wax pot at home and pop the other chain on. No rust, and extremely low wear - for a total of a few mins a day max.

[@CHIEFSFAN1969]

I had a bottle of Synerg-E laying around so tried 1/3 of a bottle. Didn't like the results (because it's not cold here (I'm not too bright)) so put 2 strip chips in and stirred and let it sit for 20 minutes after it sat at temp for 20 minutes or so. Re-waxed and seems to be back to normal/great so far.

[@draugmithrin]

I just keep it simple, Silca Secret hot wax my commute bike chains regularly after wiping with microfibre cloth. Use an Xpower air duster to dry chain, cassette and mechs if they're wet. No corrosion issues and chains would have already worn out using any the many lubes I used to use. Thanks Adam Kerin, you are the best when it comes to straightforward, practical chain lubrication advice, no one else comes close. Congrats on the mtb race win, awesome achievement. I find fully plated nickel or ti-nitride YBN chains the best.

[@tracksmart2887]

*** I posted this on your "Wax & Cold" video, but repasting it here in case it is useful. *** I've been battling with the cold weather issue since I started chain waxing 3 years ago. Some advice and warnings for winter chain waxers: 1) Consider gently wiping the excess wax from your chain as soon as you pull it out of the wax pot (a very quick single wipe). A thick layer of wax is going to be really difficult to break free in sub-freezing weather. It's possible you lose a bit of weather protection, but that's better than having your chain be frozen solid. 2) Watch out when going back-and-forth between warm and cold environments! I loosened a newly waxed chain in my cold garage, put the bike inside my warm car, then started a sub-freezing gravel ride. Result: My chain was crazy stiff! I could not use the smallest 4 cogs because it would shift uncontrollably. It took about 40 miles (on a 60 mile ride) before the chain was running fully smoothly! (Point #1 helps a bit). 3) It takes a solid 20 minutes on the trainer before a freshly waxed chain is "safe" to ride in sub-freezing temperatures. And even then, it will be fairly stiff for the first part of your ride. The cold temperatures stiffen the wax again, but not to a degree that your bike will be unrideable or have major shifting problems. 4) Drip waxes are your friend in winter. ZFC's advice to use a hybrid approach is a good one. I try to use a drip wax (Silca in this case) 3 - 4 times between immersive waxings in the winter. If there's momentary warm weather, that's a good time to install a freshly waxed chain. The annoying part for drip wax is that I have to bring the bike inside so the chain and drip wax are both nice and warm first. 5) Full fenders make a big difference for days when the roads are wet. They keep your chain much drier, so you don't need to re-wax or re-apply drip lube as often. They are pretty critical for being able to use wax-based products on my daily commuter bike. 6) If you commute daily in truly wet weather (real rain) or slushy and salty snow, then maybe you'd be better off riding a cheap bike, with a cheap drivetrain, and grinding it into dust using wet lube. At some point, you just need to get to work -- and not spend your entire life maintaining waxed chains. OVERALL: Using chain wax in the winter is considerably more annoying, especially if your normal bike storage location is unheated (e.g. shed or unheated garage). But it's not impossible, depending on your situation.

[@Hard_Work_Is_Rewarding]

You buy your Shimano XTR chain from your local bike shop (99 bikes) and you suspect it to be fake due to noise and premature cassette wear, but there are no obvious signs that it is fake. Is there any other way to tell?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

it would be extraordinarily unlikely that it is fake as they are a reputable retailer. They are a big store so their stock ordering is a pretty locked in system and for shimano they will be ordering from shimano. There will be little incentive for the purchasing officer to shave some more profit by going to alibaba. There are videos on YT that take you through visually what to look for on both the packaging and the chain for genuine vs shimano so you can easily check - but odds are something more obvious will have caused the noise and wear issue, the most likely being lubricant / maintenance. What are you using at the moment?

[@Hard_Work_Is_Rewarding]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Yes I reckon so as well. Must be a problem with something else, such as rear deraileur or maybe a crankset... Or maybe even a frame issue, who knows? I am using molten speedwax new formula.

[@dawn_rider]

If you still have the packaging then the QR code phone app check may help ? Do a search for ' shimano en-AU information anti-counterfeit ' . I'm assuming they do this now for chains ? You might be able to check them in a shop but only 3 scans are allowed. More than 3 checks result in a 'caution' notice so there is potential for 'shop checks' to be abused !

[@adadinthelifeofacyclist]

When you look in the photo at the weird faces of the guys who came 2nd and 3rd, it's not surprising you won! 😁 Congratulations 👏👏

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Yeah their heads and helmets were definitely less aero. And hard to hold up over the rough sections.

[@tonawetniejeston]

Hey Adam, congrats on the win! 1. Regarding the "Bicycle Rolling Resistance" tests - I'm just browsing them out of curiosity, but when it comes to measuring the resistance of off-road tires, I share the doubts of many people about their measurability. What does a smooth drum have to do with an off-road path? In off-road conditions, the tire's efficiency is its ability to absorb various kinds of unevenness - the less it bounces, the less energy it loses. That's pure physics. Can a smooth drum somehow simulate that? I very much doubt it. And I lament that more people don't do tests like Jan Heine, where you roll a bike down an inclined off-road path and take measurements - of course, that can only be a comparative test, but say, a group of tires tested at the same time. 2. What do you think about preparing a special winter-only lube mix? My standard mix is laboratory-grade paraffin + small additions of WS2 and PTFE. It performs great in the summer season. For winter, I plan to make it a bit more pliable, but definitely not by adding any synthetic oils that emit stinky and harmful fumes (I'm a bit baffled by Josh's recommendation, where he promotes home waxing but doesn't consider heating his products...). I was thinking of starting with 2% heavy paraffin oil + 1% boiled linseed oil + 1% castor oil. My goal is to extend and increase the chain's resistance to the conditions present on wet winter roads (post-snow mud, water, salt) that I have to go through to reach the places where I ride on snow (packed to varying degrees). I'm not afraid of increased dirt adhesion, because after such winter riding, I'll rewax the chain anyway.

[@TomppaH-y3o]

Guestion #2. My 5 years of experience. I have about 25% of paraffin oil mixed with paraffin and a handful of ptfe powder. Works great especially on snow and ice, but works during summer too.

[@tonawetniejeston]

@@TomppaH-y3o Hey, thanks for sharing your experience! Did you try smaller additions of paraffin oil before you got to 25%? On paper it seems like a lot :)

[@TomppaH-y3o]

​@@tonawetniejestonI started almost 1:1 and I can confirm that longevity was about 100km shorter than mix of 1:4. I'm riding various trails in Finland.

[@clintmichigan9112]

Cooler hot wax removal only results in additional wax being layered up on the chains external surfaces. Its a WOFTAM technique.

[@hindesite]

Extracting the chain while hot vs cold may be provable by comparing total chain weight after a short ride. If the wax amount decreases to a minimum coating thickness the wax weight should be the same regardless of any process that occurs before installing the chain.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

alas that wouldnt be precise enough to tell us what is happening inside, as more wax can still be stuck to the outside. More external wax wont all flake off, it has to be sheered off by rubbing on side of cog / ring teeth - unlike excess inside which is squeezed out to the same layer thickness after X time at X load.

[@dawn_rider]

​@@zerofrictioncycling992 Maybe compare using average effective chain elongation at say 1km , 2km, 5km , 10km , 20km , 50km , 100km etc after re-waxing. Any individual elongation results immediately after re-waxing would likely be highly variable and possibly negative ( might be interesting to measure it ). Initially most of the squeezed out wax is probably between the inner plate bushing and the roller ? Seems to me that the wax between the bushing and pin is under higher pressure but in a smaller gap / longer path to the outside ? Wax can only go up the gap between the bushings or between the faces of the inner and outer plates ? To make this work you would have to remove most the excess wax from the outside of the chain. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5C3Y2mJopuBoJY uses a chain cleaner. I'm not sure this is good practice in terms of rust prevention ? He is one of your viewers BTW.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@dawn_rider ah yep that might work, but ooh play time for this will be rather limited.... gotta crack the oil detection first! :). And thanks re the i know a guy bicycles. that is a interesting little hack - i havent needed anything other than normal initial wax bond break and then off i go pedalling meself, but maybe its of help for some. I might have to get another chain pig or park tool to try...

[@adriantan205]

Congrats on the win!

[@LeomariniRodriguez]

Hi Adam, thanks for all the info. You mentioned using the endurance chip with Molten Speed wax, do they recommend using it as well? And do you have any tips?

[@akiofearth]

Maybe we achieve a similar when I put a new chain into the wax without degreasing. Has anybody tried it?

[@xosece]

very interesting video as usual. Noob question, since I use Effetto Mariposa 'cos it's the best drip wax and I never performed immersive waxing. Can you re-use the melted wax you applied on one application and keep it stored when it cools to use it in the next waxing?

[@TomppaH-y3o]

I made my own wax melt over 5 years ago. It sits nicely in the rice cooker and ready to be melt down again for waxing. I'm rotating 3 chains for my emtb as well as 3 chains for my wife's emtb. I think it still goes well next 5 years.

[@jvogel431]

Congrats on the win! No need to ever provide disclaimers for your victory. You race against the guys on the start line...that's it. You won. Enough said. Well done.

[@wazzup105]

The other upside of running multiple chains is that you can batch (re)wax them all at once and always have one ready to put on with minimal effort. ALSO: Would wiping a chain down with a wee bit of WD40 make a difference? (as an emergency solution)

[@dmitryhetman1509]

It could prevent rust, what about silicon lube?

[@Hard_Work_Is_Rewarding]

Hi Adam, I have waxed my chains before on Wipperman connex chains and it was always silent. Now I have a new bike wtih Shimano Dura Ace chain and an Ultegra cassette. Di2 105 12 speed system. The drivetrain is really noisy during chain engagement under a slight load. Sounds rough. It happens on two of my Dura ace chains during 600kms and multiple rewaxes. Chains were properly solvent cleaned, direction is always adhered to, I also tried a different cassette and adjuseted deraileurs to death. Nothing seems to help.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Is the cassette new as well as chains (and chain rings?). New shimano chain and cassette and rings etc - all should be smooth regardless of lubricant choice. Rough is normally poor mesh due to one of the parts being more worn than the other. Chains from a genuine retailer?

[@Hard_Work_Is_Rewarding]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Chains are from 99bikes. I don't think there is anything more genuine than that... Everything is brand new. Is it possible that there is a slight problem with a crankset? E.g., it is a bit bent? I do not really see it but can not think of any other potential problem. I can not reproduce this noise on the stand, but start to hear it as long as there is some power output (not much). Does not seem to change with power output increase.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@Hard_Work_Is_Rewarding ah yes they will be all genuine for sure. Alas a situation like this is difficult to pin down from afar - it would likely need a good mechanic to have a look and a play, and / or require some trial & error via a process of elimination. if its rough under power, and only in a few cogs - and it is on multiple chains, and if it coming from the cassette end - then it is probably best to start there. it is practically impossible 2 shimano chains would be weird - its extremely extremely rare to get an issue with any brand genuine chain. So potentially an alignment issue with mech which an accurate HAG could check. Potentially if there is an issue with the cassette (again, uber rare if new) - LBS could swap a cassette on from a floor bike just to try to eliminate that part being the issue. Check for any other potential such as the more outboard freehub bearing that may be loaded more on smaller cogs that it hasnt started to poop itself etc etc. But new chains, new cassette (new rings?) no matter if on wax or oil or whatever re lubricant - a lubricant is a lubricant - it cant turn things rough as such - so it might be a bit of fun play to find out what it is. If you do, please let me know :)

[@Hard_Work_Is_Rewarding]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I suspect it is either a crankset/rear deraileur or a frame issue. Let's see where my battle with the 99bikes will end up. Yep, will let you know for sure.

[@yisraels4555]

I have been adding a small amount of oil to the wax i am using for a while because the paraffin i am using seemed very hard. I am mostly in a hot dry very dusty environment. I have not seen any evidence of dust or anything else sticking to the chain. The oil simply dissolved into the wax. By the way after i wax my chains, i toss them in an old metal pan and put them in the oven for a few minutes. Most of the excess flows off.

[@granitestateirish6380]

For what it’s worth, I think I heard Josh Poertner recently say that he no longer recommends letting the wax cool before removing the chain.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

ah yes i just caught that as well on the latest escape collective geek warning - thats good news!

[@montyevo5156]

Well done on the win Adam! Carl from Waxed Watts Sydney.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Thanks carl!

[@LoveMTB]

Thanks a lot for all the work you put in! Really appreciate it, cheers from Canada!

[@freondakilla]

love your content, did know you were a ZF viewer!

[@colinl2908]

Congratulations on the win. That knee image just looked...wrong. Luckily no freezing weather riding for me.

[@awesomexistence]

Adam, a hair dryer works to both remove excess wax from a freshly waxed installed chain and to free up the chain. Takes about 5 minutes of backpedling with hair dryer on high very close above the cassette/chain and chain crosschained. Cross chaining helps to open up the links side play and force molten wax through the inner workings.

[@joshuabuilds3051]

T E X T

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

hahahaha i dont know how that got there!!! trying to check the clips on wondershare but now its crashing...

[@Cycle.every.day.]

A few of our customers are oiling their waxed chains (even though they've been told not to) sooooo frustrating.

[@sarahtoustra7127]

This whole immersive wax thing is getting ridiculous. Oil in the wax now? C'mon...

[@hinrichaue7199]

congrats!

[@dawn_rider]

I wonder if Ollie at GCN watches his sponsors videos kzbin.info/www/bejne/aJm8p3eDj9J0mLc ?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

hahaha yeah - i think he just for got to mention the oil as synergetic or synerg-E :). And yep as much as proponent of IM waxing as i am as it is just absolutely simply better in every way, i cant honestly say if i had to frequently ride in very very cold temps if i would wax or if i would switch to oil. If the chain is a drag for hours to break in, that would be a drag. I would trial installing warm - but i dont know if that would work sufficiently. I personally wouldnt have the time or faff to break in on an ergo first before doing my ride. I dont know how much adding 20ml of synergetic helps the break in in such temps, i only know the breaking of my olfactory system that this does. Alas it is something that i cannot directly test and advise which is a shame - but i keep gathering experiences from those who do - and it is a little mixed. I do think there is a place for a specific freezing winter wax that is soft at sub zero temps.... and that smells nice :)

[@ponkanpinoy]

I have two chains on rotation and I love it. But saying there's no extra cost is not exactly accurate. Inventory is a cost. What I spend today for an extra chain I could have spent on something else, and it's not necessarily going to be offset by not having to buy the chain down the road. Worth it for some, not worth it for all.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Sure, but in realistic terms - it is an investment in saving $ in the longer term. lets say running 2 chains on rotation ensures you get 2 chains to a $380 dura ace cassette vs if you only ran one chain you ended up with one chain to the cassette. So you $90 chain spend - you could have instead invested that $90 in the stock market and you did really well and got a 10% return on investment - so you got $9 return on investment by not spending on inventory and put that money to work. Vs the $90 spend that returned $380 so a 422% return. If your cassette is a lower level cassette costing less, the return will be less, but it would have to be a pretty cheap cassette to not come out ahead vs investing the $. If it is a $700 axs red cassette or $1100 t-type cassette - the advantages of ensuring multiple chains to cassette sure is a wise one. I have always said it MAY be a good option especially if your components are higher tier and thus more expensive, and especially if riding a lot in harsh conditions where many are easily caught out zooming past 0.5% wear mark. Simply one should weigh up the benefits or not for their own riding, it is simply an option that for many fitting those criteria is worth considering and it is genuinely a smart way to roll. Saving circa $100 to then have to spend hundreds more some months later is a false economy. And running two chains on rotation will usually extend lifespan of chain rings, pulleys etc - so the savings for the investment can be easily higher / much higher than outlined above.

[@JAJR84]

I've been using Immersive Waxing for a while now and watching both your videos and Josh's. Honestly, this strategy of using Synergetic with wax seems like a real marketing ploy to me. Didn't we say we use wax for its cleanliness? Didn't we say we use wax for its durability? Didn't we say we use wax for its watts savings? I don't see any sense in that, sorry.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

yes, yes and yes. Hopefully i came across balancing the middle ground of "this may help for your winter break in if that is a struggle, and may help with your wax longevity in harsh wet if you need longer, and or if it is going to help lessen the risk of rusting if you cant follow the other tips to prevent that" - with this is not really my favored path vs other options such as endurance chip, installing chain warm etc. I get where he is coming from, and it genuinely might be worth the trade off for some winter cycling for some cyclists so its worth covering, but i would only consider doing this if the other options for some reason were not going to work for you. To properly weigh up this option we need to see some data on just how much extra longevity it brings in harsh wet conditions, how much extra rust protection etc. And i honestly dont think it will make the wax that dirty - but..... until i try 20ml in wax i dont know. The Hot wax X hack recommended by josh at the time was 10 drops of synergetic so a much lower amount - and that did help the break in a bit, but as X is so long lasting already, it was impossible to gauge anything in field test at the time with regards to doing anything on that front. I do remember the smell of the wax very, very well however. 20ml on syn in your wax, that is going to be hell of trip for ones nostrils!

[@jasonwills6694]

Congrats on the win!