A History of Fire Emblem Heroes' Distant Counter Curse

[@imsoupcansam]

That Sothis refine had people throwin' all kinda hands

[@Cinderace836]

As a Sothis fan, I was mad 😠

[@ManuelKoegler]

It wasn’t just the refine, it was also the very disappointing remix.

[@FafnirVestra]

@@Cinderace836 Also as a Sothis enjoyer, I was more than mad

[@Cinderace836]

@@ManuelKoegler ikr 😞

[@reyrey1717]

Both Sothis refines. W! Sothis was terrible too. I hope H! Sothis does not meet the same fate

[@staz9218]

i never really thought about it, but for some reason hearing "Dark Mystletainn Spiral Bonfire spam" really spoke to me that, this game makes no sense to anyone else-

[@ManuelKoegler]

You scoundrel!

[@baxterbruce9827]

Dark Mystleyainn Spiral Bonfire sounds like something an anime character would shout as aj attack name

[@Fishman465]

​@@baxterbruce9827 like Owain?

[@OmegaSothis]

Nothing can express my absoulte anger when I woke up on the 5th of September 2022 to install FEH update version 6.9.0 and discovering what they did to Mythic Sothis' refine...

[@Jamick98Geass]

Nowi basically got destroyed and then a year or so later we were getting DC weapons with 4+ effects I love how IS makes refines that almost immediately become outdated from the word go.

[@yokuutsu9097]

Back in the day, if your weapon says "Can counter attacks regardless of range", the hero might as well just enlist into a retirement home. (I hope Takumi gets an attuned form or something. He used to be best unit in the game, he's one of my favorite characters, and I wanna see him shine.)

[@machupichu18]

Fjorm might of gotten out of that refine batch relatively unscathed, but she did have that drama with her remix skill to the point that they had to change what skill she got as part of her remix in a future update, so I wouldn't say she dodged the DC curse, just got it in a different form.

[@RbDaP]

She dodged her fatal disease curse that took all her luck away already 😂

[@marqkc]

Yeah. Idk what intsys was cooking when they gave her penalty neutralization and then throwing a Unity skill on her kit for no reason 😭

[@machupichu18]

@@marqkc The Unity skill came first, so my theory as to why this happened always has been that IS just straight up forgot they even gave her Unity for her remix. I have no idea why else they'd give her that. It's just a crazy moment in FEH's history.

[@alexanderharrison7421]

You could say she got it in a different Fjorm

[@Susanoo_T]

The Sothis refine was a big meme for some time.

[@JAMllostthegame]

I remember being excited for Ragnell and Alondite getting refines. Then I saw them and was like "that's it?"

[@Copyrightbreaker22]

At least they did have a refine. poor Reinhardt still has nothing,

[@felixma9192]

yeah because a gen 1 unit like him’s gonna destroy the whole game with his refine at this point frfr

[@magicball3201]

I mean, even a year after he "should" have gotten a refine, he was still really good. No longer THE meta, but still a very popular choice

[@yokuutsu9097]

Imagine if Ryoma had a new alt that had "Astra" as a B Skill and it's basically potent with FIVE ATTACKS

[@guydude439]

That would be massive, they should do it (I'm biased I just love Ryoma)

[@morganjary]

Honestly sounds easy enough, just give him a braves for quads and a PRF potent that grants him the fifth hit

[@Oz1455]

Honestly, they probably will.

[@EinSilverRose]

Sothis' refine and remix is so frustrating. Sothis is a LIMITED Mythic character. The fact she only ever shows up when IS feels like having her on the Legendary/Mythic/Emblem banners means she is now a huge detriment to to any banner she's on. All they had to do was give her a solid niche as Defense Mythic to help out her AI AR team team but because she's permanent 5 dollar starter pack she can't be too good apparently because she would make the game modes too easy for the 10 beginners the game gets every month who are even willing to spend some money. In the same vein the base Ragnell refine falls under "Why did they even bother?" category because unless you just love RD Ike a lot there's zero reason to ever pull on red on Legendary/Mythic/Emblem banners if he's on them. The book OC freebies also suffer from mediocre refines and remixes which I'm sure tank the already poor sales of the Legendary/Mythic/Emblem banners. I think only Peony is fine because she's a dancer and a flyer so she's already a net benefit to almost any team. It's just hilarious how often IS shoots themselves in the foot.

[@Amethyst2941]

What I also found funny back then on how IS handled DC units was until the Anniversary Xander and Camus never got a re-run GHB. Most likely because they were free and had DC. I remember how the FEH channel back then made it a big deal when announcing their re-runs. Oh and FEH saying "Camoo".

[@philbuttler3427]

That's how you pronounce Camus, Americans talking shit about how other languages pronounce words when you are the only first world country that's population mostly doesn't speak two languages is the height of comedy.

[@kirbyemblem3708]

@@philbuttler3427Don’t need to learn any language. America is one of the largest countries by land mass and population in the world. Most countries are in very close proximity to each other which is not the case with America. We have 3 major counties in North America and 2 of them are predominantly English speaking. Being the most powerful and influential nation means that other nations bend over backwards to learn English and beg our nation for protection, even yours. In conclusion, GOML.

[@Rock-vk9ei]

@@philbuttler3427European countries acting so high and mighty about needing to learn another language just to talk to somebody in a country 30 minutes away 🤮 Don’t gotta learn anything besides English, you Europeans would probably learn it to talk with us anyways

[@Libellulaire]

@@philbuttler3427 Except that it is NOT how you pronounce Camus. Camus is a French name, in French "U" is never pronounced in an "oo" sound. Never. It'd be difficult to explain the correct pronunciation as there are no words in English with that same "U" sound I believe (lots of sounds in French don't exist in English and vice versa), but I guess it's a bit closer to an "uh" sound. When he said "Camoo" in the video I giggled and thought to myself I would have never understood who the hell he was talking about if there were no pictures. Same with Japanese names in general. Nothing is ever pronounced while taking into account the origin of the name, it's always pronounced using English rules, which is honestly dumb as hell.

[@CatsLilaSalem]

Thing with Sothis was that she was suddenly really good for PVE maps, and could solo most if not all abyssal maps at the time. The weapon damage reduction made her often barely survive, and then Sirius+ would help to heal back up. Gave her dragon wrath 4 and she could even oneround in pvp, or deal heavy damage, which is a lot better than 0 damage at least, of course the tempo did also help guard effect where super common. Beside that attack/speed stack to give dragon wrath and Sirius+ an boost

[@theelephant2117]

You should do a video about when refines outshined the updates new banner heroes. An example would be when Bectors refine outshined CYL4s debut, Bikes refine, Beliwood being better then 90% of PP cavs for the longest time, OG Celicas refine setting a standard for years, etc

[@Oz1455]

I'm also a Day 1 player, and I'm here to this day, even if I never cared for AR or Arena all that much. I have plenty of fully built units, even though I'm basically a "casual" at this point. For the last year and a half+, I've fluctuated way more into Genshin Impact, and now Honkai Star Rail. Heroes was my introduction to "gachas". And much like yourself, I came because I was an FE fan. It's like I forgot the beauty of actually giving these characters voices, especially some of my favourites of the older games. And after all that, you've reminded of us of the possibility that this game might end one day, and it was pretty sad to me. Even though I'm way more detatched to it right now, it still gets to me, because I've spent over 7 years playing this game.

[@OmniMon94]

Heroes was also my introduction to Gachas so welcome to the club I also eventually went inti hoyoverse gachas but either way At least Feh will end on a few high notes but definitely not by much because the story and some of the story memes might carry this game at all somehow

[@Oz1455]

@@OmniMon94 I somehow just realized I posted this in the wrong video, and I meant to post it on the one he talks about the good things about the game.

[@OmniMon94]

@@Oz1455 that's ok At least in the end you enjoyed FeH even if it became a complicated numbers Gacha game

[@Oz1455]

@@OmniMon94 Yeah, I still enjoy it, even though I don-t take it as seriously. Just yesterday I built up a Yukimura I got for free, reminded me of those fun times.

[@OmniMon94]

@@Oz1455 yeah

[@Fishman465]

The delay between skill and weapon for L.Ike and Fjorm would explain the disconnect seen. That and they were the prototypes for modern refine. This touches on another thing: the shop pack curse considering B.Lyn, Sothis, maybe W.Sothis, and Black Knight. Now if IS could remember the refine jail units as most have aged

[@LoLo-ry8xw]

As someone who jumped back in the game after 3 years, this series is so helpful. Understanding this game’s meta (while dyslexic) is pretty time consuming. Happy to see this community so active and helpful. Keep up the high quality!👏👏

[@LoLo-ry8xw]

p.s. if anyone has tips for a perceval +3 +19 team build for summoner duels lmk!

[@monkeman8759]

Distant counter on a weapon was a curse for a long time Then emblem ike came along

[@Fishman465]

And before him, Brave Dimtri's refine

[@3flax554]

The funny thing is we still don’t have a prf weapon with unconditional Close Counter.

[@SweaterPuppys]

Feh is the only Fire Emblem game where having 1-2 range is bad

[@Wyglafff]

Also the DC seals have made SP farming much faster for me !

[@AnAveWithNoName]

Not mentioned but legendary roy was also fucked over by the dc refine curse; he got a *few* more effects than someone like sothis, but it was still majorly underwhelming

[@SpectralDynamite]

It's so disappointing to me that I finally had to let go of L!Grima and Sothis' weapons and replace them both with Dragon's Stone+ because that weapon just straight up outperforms them while still allowing them use of their prf skills. That was a blow to my pride, ngl. I hate not using a unit's unique tools... but if they don't cut it anymore, it is what it is. The two of them are much better now and have access to all sorts of tools that make them still viable threats, so we press forward regardless. As for Shinon, I was orginally gonna skip refining him, but after seeing his refine, I'm really considering refining him just for that novelty of being the only dedicated Close Counter bow in the game (also I have like zero good PoR units otherwise).

[@countchocula1250]

and here i thought ike's refine was one of the earlier refines

[@robertm5110]

I remember loving OG Ike who is my favorite character and then slowly seeing other with DC getting extra stuff leaving Ike behind even after the refine 😢

[@FailLincs]

I love distant counter its so funny

[@Oz1455]

its not.

[@FailLincs]

@@Oz1455 ❌

[@Oz1455]

@@FailLincs

[@FailLincs]

@@Oz1455 what does this mean

[@GMKGoji01]

Honestly, Distant Counter is very optimal and helpful if you hate being unable to counterattack the enemy who has two range.

[@jordanholloman5907]

I'm running it on characters like Chloe and Lapis.

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

As a Priam fan (yes, we exist), his prf weapon is incredibly frustrating because of how fast he was made irrelevant in the banner (never irrelevant in my heart). A penalty on the opponent’s Atk/Def (completely useless if the enemy has Unity, Freyr on their team, Harsh Command, Odd/Even Recovery… you get the point) and Def+3. That’s it. One of the most powerful and absolutely monstrous units in Awakening and he was outclassed by the GHB unit on the same banner. I’m scared his weapon refine will be next to nothing when it comes out, he really doesn’t deserve being shafted like that.

[@morganjary]

I have like 7 priams because i loved him so much i used all my orbs. Then i never actually merged them or built him cuz i realized his weapon sucked so much ass, his biggest pro was being good fodder :')

[@Libellulaire]

The moment Priam was released, I was so happy he became instantly one unit I wanted to hard focus on, +10 and build like crazy. But over time I had to give up on the dream of maxing him because they destroyed him so quickly. I enjoyed him so much for a few weeks and then he fell back so hard and so quickly. It was honestly so sad. We only got one of him too :/

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

@@Libellulaire I’ve gotten him up to 10+ (LOTTA prioritizing banners he was on) and foddered what good skills I could on him: Atk/Def Unity (which almost never seems to do much for some reason), Frenzy (back when it was worth a damn), Atk smoke 4 and Heavy Blade S-Seal. Even all that started to outclass him, so I got a copy of Emblrm Ike and slapped Laguz friend on him, then Engaged Celica on him. He’s not broken, but he’s surviving the meta now at the very least. I have him on an Arena Defense team with my F!Robin (Who I plan on putting Breath of Life 4 on) and my M!Morgan (who runs Infantry Null Follow Up). It’s a LOT of work, but I’ll do what I can for my Awakening husband. It’d be really awesome if he got an Ascended/Attuned alt someday.

[@ADAPT_GAMING]

At least Say'ri was somehow spared from the DC refine curse

[@CatsLilaSalem]

Somewhere In the beginning of FEH i wanted Hector as he was the main and i think only DC unit, but i got really unlucky while spending all my orbs. After farming the last available reward orbs at the time i still got him. Otherwise i would have ragequit it hurts to put so much just to lose it all to dumb gambling stuff. It was the last day with his banner also I don't know how many orbs i used, but it was at least worth an spark, something which was not available back then. If not much more even

[@shadowpiplup]

Yo can we start a campaign to get the units that got a resplendent and no refines

[@Rookie-j9j]

Can't wait for the potent counter

[@Scrantonicity2]

I remember when dc and cc were the GOAT skills and so limited in fodder but over time I noticed that they started to become less valuable anybody remember when hector and vantage takumi were legit threats.

[@smashxd5833]

You missed Freyja, but don't worry, I would've missed her too

[@SHFirefly]

I only use it when leveling up and building my non ranged units

[@bluebellfleur4595]

Boey and eventually shinon will be the only close counter weapon refine

[@nothingbasic8147]

I'm not even gonna try to deny it, DC refines are so trash it's a conditional Omni +1 when your Atk+Spd+Def+Res is greater than foe's Atk+Spd+Def+Res +30

[@Tarantulawl]

Emblem Ike and Fallen Edelgard made up for it.

[@Cerbleur07]

I hope Mustafa gets a Distant Counter on the short axe.

[@marcosmolares5910]

The thing with DC at the moment is that to counter, you must first survive an attack from some of the current nukes.... good luck with that 😂

[@Wyglafff]

I really like Hardin but his weapon refine was sad

[@enbnuuy]

i feel like legendary m!corrins got the dc curse tbh

[@Oz1455]

Thanks, time to go cry.

[@LunaDachi]

Thoughts on Nowi’s refine for its time?

[@Exroyalgargoyle]

it feels strange how a dc banner with sothis of all charaters get the short end of the stick however my theory of why its so lacking is because you can supposedly buy her with feh pass and I suppose if they had a strong refine like for example stronger and true Dr, rewinds foes special and speeds up her own along with her new prf special it would cause 'problems' as for ike I think its usually due with his legendary having the same sword name so they basically made it simple and nerfed along with that I wouldn't say its 'buyable' like with sothis other than og ike's rep. i suppose the same with bk but he was what? Months a year or two before his came out after ike's?

[@phoenixblade8315]

Roy🥺

[@hellnestor172]

15:16 What unit is that? I did not understand

[@darellinares3956]

Sothis

[@thecolato]

Sothis still has a chance to be good. No, not really through skill inheritance, there's not that much that can make that refine good. I mean that there is still Duo Sothis who hasn't gotten her refine yet. So there is still hope for one good Sothis DC refine, though her refine is still ways off (I think, I don't have the best view on the order of refines). But to be fair though, it feels like IS just doesn't like Sothis in general, since even the Winter Sothis refine (a weapon without DC) was not all that good (well, it was at least better than Mythic Sothis'). Please IS, just give us one really good Sothis Refine (And I'm definitely not saying that because I still use Duo Sothis in my main team, what are you insinuating?)!

[@Sonicwisp21]

I'll never forgive IS for overvaluing DC. Really sucks having to give up F!Grima's prf A skill (Attuned and Rearmed removing it) because the refine was that bad.

[@tymemaster]

I dunno the refines were fine though I think people just wanted the kitchen sink I still use mythic sothis

[@Oz1455]

I also don't think the so called "bad" moments were ever really present- yeah, the powercreep in this game is dogshit, but that's about it. It's not as bad to me, that it'd ruin my experience of it. In the last two years or so, I learned that you can basically use powercreep in your own favour instead.

[@GodSejeong]

Distant Counter is a mistake, both in Heroes and main series

[@Flamelance_Accendo]

Crazy how a God sucks. lol

[@11inch41]

when the dc cursed happened, i got so mad, i deleted my +10 ike i was grinding for years.