ZF-41: Germany's Worst Sniper Scope

[@fuckagare]

You know, this scope is in Red Orchestra 2. The developers had so much attention for detail, it sucks in the game too.

[@LupusAries]

Yeah...........went, oh I believe you Ian! :D :D Never shot with it IRL, but it sucked in RO2 so I'm not too surprised it sucked IRL. :D Tripwire takes their shit seriously! ;)

[@An_Lei_Laoshi]

I was looking for this comment. You're better off with iron sights than this "scope"

[@flightlesschicken7769]

@@An_Lei_Laoshi I mean that's not what Ian seemed to say If I was listening to the same video. It's a fine scope for a DMR, it's terrible for a sniper. They did testing with it on InRange and found it was more accurate and had faster target acquisition than using standard iron sights

[@zachhogan7865]

@@flightlesschicken7769 right but in our context (red orchestra 2), we are comparing it to the Soviet PU scope which is much better when compared side by side with this.

[@flightlesschicken7769]

@@zachhogan7865 Yeah, but I was responding to the person who said you were better off with irons. Unless it is like that in the RO2

[@annairinastoll2960]

Kind of funny that this is adjustable to only 800m while the K98ks iron sights are adjustable to up to 2000m xD

[@SonicsniperV7]

Never forget the C96 Mauser sights could go out to 1km

[@clothar23]

Like anyone is hitting anything at 2 kilometers with iron sights anyway.

[@wurfyy]

It kind of makes sense given that the iron sights were designed with the possibility of volley fire in mind.

[@jamesb3497]

The difference between "FU in particular" and "F this general area."

[@tymon102e6]

@@jamesb3497 fucular

[@macseneca8774]

Gun Jesus: You are without a doubt the worst German sniper optic I have heard of. Zf-41: but you have heard of me....

[@camillosteuss]

in fact, the zf aint even bad, its modest and decent for its purpose, but only for the intended purpose, the rifle design is what made it scarcely mounted, and the fact that it was mounted onto rifles intended for other optics rather than on those it should have been used on, which were the infantry rifles rather than the snipers is what gave it a bad rep... Its a bad sniper, but its a good scope... The setting part is actually not really all that troublesome if you have a good bench... So yah, this pirate is not just heard of but actually a fine specimen...

[@mikepette4422]

@@camillosteuss exactly its a scope when nobody else had one at all

[@myparceltape1169]

@@camillosteuss We loved it when we were able to afford the Zeiss optics for projects. Best way was to run a trial, pretend it was important, but not be able to produce good enough results to give a definite answer.

[@Treblaine]

"Gentlemen, You will always remember this as the day you ALMOST zeroed a ZF-41!"

[@amclips2995]

@@Treblaine LOL! :-D

[@jamesb3497]

So, like many military failures, it's less a bad design and more a design being used for something it was never designed for.

[@petercarlson9463]

0

[@Niinkai]

Why aim at the mg nest when you could just shoot the red barrels next to it, no sights required? smh

[@sixstringedthing]

Every military in the world trying to upgrade all their equipment, and I'm here like "maybe just upgrade your field ops procedures and stop your guys leaving highly explosive red barrels right next to valuable targets?".

[@Piromanofeliz]

*Insert necessary ramble about how their explosiveness means that they are somehow allways filled with the right vaporized fuel to air ratio*

[@mugglepower]

Fax. We all know enemies love to place highly flammable and explosive supplies around their important facillities that is directly exposed to good guy's gunfire. And conviniently paints them bright yellow, orange or red just incase you miss them. And copious amounts of vents all over their fortress if you choose stealth.

[@myparceltape1169]

Didn't know about Watney's over there.

[@Tippet76]

I see all of these people showing off theor fancy ideas for reloading and I have to ask myself everytime, "Why don't they just shoot outside the screen?"

[@marchills4131]

I'm not even that much of a gun nut. But there is something unreasonably satisfying about Ian discussing the arcane details of some interesting historic firearm or firearm related artifact. He's like that really cool professor you had in college. It didn't matter what the course was about, some people have a way of making anything fascinating.

[@Sabretoothsquirrel]

I had a music teacher in elementary school and a history teacher in high school that were like that. Both of them could enter a rowdy classroom, walk up to their desk and just calmly start talking and immediately have everyone's attention. Actually they were both kind of history teachers because the music teacher liked to talk about music history a lot. And they both knew how to make it interesting.

[@cascadianrangers728]

Keep watching, another 4 episodes and we'll mail you your official gun nut certificate

[@BloodmoonPyke]

"Hans, give me your glasses!" "Why?" "I wanna make a x2,3 magnification out of this shit"

[@pissyourselfandshitncoom2172]

Just get a squadmate to hold up 2 handy magnifiers to your iron sight

[@thepoliticalgunnut8018]

Russian sniper: Has decent scope German sniper: has Krapp scope Simo Hayha: Laughs in iron sights

[@telankiristyssylinteriasetelma]

*Häyhä

[@sergeireischel1610]

*Liar

[@shilopnamreg6468]

@@sergeireischel1610 you some salty commie cosplayer calling Simo a liar?

[@nunyabidniz2868]

@@telankiristyssylinteriasetelma Nice umlauts! I really miss the easy keycaps utility I had under the old MacOS a couple of decades ago. Still have no idea why it has never been knocked off for Windows: they copied everything else, didn't they? Bastidges...

[@johnturner5893]

3 out of 5 longest sniper kill -CANADIAN, so assume our scopes are the best and we don't use 'iron sights' Highest kill in WWI , 378 kills by also a Canadian . On the top of that He captured 300+ German soldiers too. The environment makes a huge different. How far you need to shoot, how many targets are around and are they in the open or not. It is very hard to compare "kills" .

[@redpolscorp]

"I hesitate to say sniper scope" *writes it in the title*

[@Maxx2294-blyat]

Well he probably hesitated

[@ZerakTul]

Hesitated to say it, but not to write it!

[@foximacentauri7891]

It's a bad sniper scope, but it's a decent infantry scope.

[@GunsNRoosendael]

salty goodness

[@SwornHeresy]

Because like he said, it wasn't intended for sniping, but was pushed into that role.

[@cptpayday2080]

Ian be calling it: "Worst sniper scope" Other countries: You guys are getting scopes?

[@TonboIV]

Russians: You guys are getting food?

[@sergeireischel1610]

@@TonboIV Russians had enough scopes to loot some food from the nazis they shoot

[@mikepette4422]

exactly

[@mikepette4422]

@@sergeireischel1610 not really they had to wait until they got fed at the POW camp

[@michaelfodor6280]

Elbonian Army: Can we place an order?

[@ruui6541]

"What is this, a scope for ANTS?" -probably some disgruntled German sniper, circa 1942

[@DrMatrix1231]

was ist das? ein Spielraum für Ameisen?

[@Ed-hc5iz]

@@DrMatrix1231 That must have been Google translate :D

[@DrMatrix1231]

@@Ed-hc5iz ja

[@ArcturusOTE]

It's supposed to be a rifleman scope but somehow HQ or whoever ordered these things gave it to us sniper teams. At least we have G43s so hopefully we won't be doing precision shooting anytime soon.

[@BoxJoe136]

kerbal space program

[@reddogsaws]

Russia: goes to semi auto America: goes to semi auto Germany: goes to semi auto Britain: too expensive maybe next war Australia: why?

[@nunyabidniz2868]

Not sure that's entirely fair: Britain of course went F/A [Bren gun is core of the squad, and STEN guns for anyone we're too cheap to spend a rifle on...] ;-)

[@misterthegeoff9767]

Yeah Britain went more "Who cares what the ammunition carriers for the Bren gun are armed with?"

[@Treblaine]

Russia also: cancel semi auto, go to full-auto

[@charlesphillips4575]

Don't forget Russians (a bit later): goes back to bolt action.

[@andrewholdaway813]

TBF semi auto in ww2 was hardly a game changer.

[@corwin32]

One thing I have learned from FW: the colder the weather gets, the snipier folks get

[@rocknepoovey4381]

When Ian said that “Russians took sniping a lot more seriously than anyone else in World War II”the Finnish felt that

[@RandyTheB_]

the finns were directly funneled sniping tools and techniques through virtue of killing russians

[@Chemo735]

It wasn’t their own sniping Russians took most seriously.

[@artemisfowl7191]

tbf, why do you think the Russians took it seriously?

[@bluecaptainIT]

A lot of new tactics adopted by the Soviets were lessons they took in the Finnish Wars. SMGs, new tank formations, molotovs...

[@ggsay1687]

@@bluecaptainIT molotovs were used in Spain civil war, they got named Molotov cocktail after invasion of Finland, soviet and german tanks were used in battle there, also soviet forces fought against japanese forces in Mongolia and they won. War against Finland was disaster because of Stalin's interference in strategic planning, polititians always think that they know better than professionals.

[@christopherconard2831]

Could have had an existing, off the shelf system, but instead went with a new design that added a dozen parts while also making so complex that only a trained technician was allowed to touch it. How...... German of them.

[@clothar23]

Yeah the Americans tried that and found out the civilian scopes of the time weren't up to rigors of military service. And that was in a country with civilian manufacturing of scopes. Germany by contrast at the onset of Nazi rule didn't have so much in the way of civilian scope makers. Hell the Nazis basically had to rebuild the entire German Military industrial complex.

[@victorwaddell6530]

@@clothar23 That's German engineering vs Yankee ingenuity for ya .

[@jacobm7002]

All jokes aside props to them for making a scope that has like a foot of eye relief with a 1 inch wide body.

[@Solnoric]

That is kinda impressive

[@AuroraAtAngelsTen]

Its just one operand, you can make anything have any eye relief if you make the rest of it bad enough

[@melchung1566]

Imperial Japanese scopes were not operator adjustable, like these German scopes. But they did work... thanks for video!

[@baker90338]

@@melchung1566 if you’re going to zero a rifle I presume, you don’t want the Everyman just to go full African (set elevation to max and laugh maniacally as you believe that you have now made a death ray.)

[@melchung1566]

@@baker90338 yep!

[@vincentbaelde-millar670]

You killed me with "internet standard of marksmanship"

[@travishaskell6897]

It almost sounds like a first attempt at what we now use as a red dot just without the wider field of view

[@huntclanhunt9697]

I was thinking the ACOG.

[@travishaskell6897]

hunt maybe...unfortunately I've never had the chance to use one to compare..

[@fishin_da_hood5020]

Why didn't they just use red dots then...

[@alexsis1778]

@@fishin_da_hood5020 Because red dots hadn't been invented in that time frame? The red dot itself is generally either battery powered or a fiber optic (not invented until the 1970s) sunlight only. Neither of which were really practical in this time frame. Pretty much the only use you see of any sort of field portable electrical systems would be on various flame throwers or the US bazooka. Systems which were not particularly light or small.

[@jc5445]

www.forgottenweapons.com/nydar-reflex-sight/ Only slightly too late for WWII usage.

[@charleykeenan6171]

Been watching the programs you host on Amazon Prime. You make it amazingly easy to suggest your channel to my friends who are into history! I appreciate your attention to detail!

[@ultranitro437]

What? I had no idea there was more Ian out there to enjoy! What shows does he host??

[@charleykeenan6171]

@@ultranitro437 search his name on Prime video.. The videos are packaged together for easy viewing.. worth the effort

[@Kazuhiroaka]

"They ran into the Russian sniper program." Oh no.

[@asteroidrules]

[Laughs in Zaitsev/Pavlichenko]

[@raptorcell6633]

You see they invaded Russia, then Stalingrad happened

[@leopard_2A6-906]

@@raptorcell6633 no Winter happened

[@dylanon3k]

I remember you mentioning the ZF-41 in the Norwegian scout scopes video and thought it would make a nice video of its own. Glad to see you thought the same!

[@majormoolah5056]

Never seen a scope for a .38 Special before

[@ditzydoo4378]

The ZF-41 was fitted for the "Designated Marksman" with in the rifle squad. It was not then, nor ever intended as a "Sniper-Scope". I wish everyone would let this non-issue be...

[@petesheppard1709]

A Kar98 with ZF-41 is what I though Jeff Cooper had in mind when I first read about his scout rifle concept. When considering accuracy, remember we have been spoiled. Until the '80s, 1 MOA was a grail goal for elite marksmen; the rifles had to be almost hand-built and tuned.

[@clothar23]

I never understood the whole obsession with sub moa. If you can do moa at say 1000 meters you can hit a man sized target every time. Which is all that matters in most cases. Anything else is just overcompensating or at best situational useful.

[@historyteacher5821]

@@clothar23 The error of the marksman is a very hard thing to reduce beyond a certain level, when factoring true field conditions into the mix; hence the obsession with getting a rifle & ammunition package to sub-MOA- if the rifle and ammunition are capable of putting all rounds into 1" at 100yds, and the shooter is capable of putting all rounds into 3" at 100yds (in field conditions, not perfect range conditions) then the rifle/ammo/shooter capability is going to be roughly 4" at 100yds, or roughly 4 minute of angle. It is incredibly difficult to ensure the proper amount of training and range time to achieve consistent 2 MOA capability from the shooter.

[@mergele1000]

Does anyone know the site Ian talked about at the end? Seems he forgot to include the link in the description.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

I have added it to the description text.

[@mergele1000]

Thanks

[@Mr_Bunk]

So basically, it’s the gunsight used on every tank in the video game ‘World of Tanks’.

[@jerryjuutalainen1783]

Oh please.... it's better than that and the accuracy standard was a lot higher too.

[@T33K3SS3LCH3N]

Huh? WoT provides up to 8x magnification by default iirc, and with a pretty decent FoV. Real tanks of the era usually topped out around 5-6x. Not to mention how easy it is to use on a computer.

[@Mr_Bunk]

@@T33K3SS3LCH3N First of all, calm down: this was only a joke. Secondly, I was referring to how half the shells you fire in the game seem to land anywhere _except_ on the target, even when fully-aimed. Maybe the player gets that super-awesome sight, but the in-game gunner is using a Chinese knockoff of a ZF-41 whilst drunk.

[@wurfyy]

@@Mr_Bunk If this is your complaint about WoT, I'd recommend switching over to War Thunder. The gun is actually pointing in the same direction as the sight so you can't blame RNG if you miss.

[@Mr_Bunk]

@@wurfyy Unfortunately, War Thunder has its own glaring, greed-fuelled issues and blatantly neglected bugs. See Spookton’s YT channel for more info on that.

[@jimservu]

I remember reading in Sniper on the Eastern Front that a lot of German marksman and snipers would far prefer to use optically equipped mosin rifles as opposed to these.

[@johnaranjo2059]

Thats not entirely true. The Mosin was actually pretty terrible. And the reason they would switch to a mosin if they did isn't for the shitty scope. Most accounts I've heard reference the oil used to lube the bolts. The German used gun oil and the guns wouldn't s Cycle in the cold mosins did because the Russians used diesel to oil the guns and it wouldn't freeze so more reliable in those elements

[@jimservu]

@@johnaranjo2059 Well; the optics on most mosin nagants of the time (the PU) was basically copied from the Germans (including its distinctive Post reticle and 4x power). And the author of the book, Sepp Allenberger, annotated a multitude of engagements where he used a capture mosin to successfully score hits and cause casualties.

[@thankstodd2794]

@@jimservu PU were mostly used after first half of 42 or even after 43 if I remember it correctly, before this we used other scope that I forgot the name of

[@thankstodd2794]

@@johnaranjo2059 what's so terrible about Mosin except it's safety switch?

[@jazzb97]

@@thankstodd2794 wartime manufacturing quality wasn't exactly the best on russian equipment

[@toad23567]

It's a cute scope, imagine the cuteness overload if this was slapped onto that commando FAMAS?

[@otetechie]

A lot of military leaders have struggled to differentiate between a designated marksman and a sniper.

[@FightCain]

I think it’s in Red Orchestra 2 for the tier 1 2 G41 for sniper class, And I had to bring my face closer to the monitor to see anything

[@Chandersson25]

As a history nerd, this is probably one of the best channels on KZbin! If I am allowed to leave one request, it would be absolutely amazing if you could do a review of the old Tanegashima matchlocks that were made during the 16th and 17th century in Japan. Outside of Japan they are, unfortunately, very much forgotten but nonetheless an important piece of Japan's history concerning arms, as well as their evolution to a modern industrialised society.

[@strahinjastevic7480]

Not like he has every single gun in existance liying around to just take requests for random stuff

[@Chandersson25]

@@strahinjastevic7480 Of course not, but if he ever saw one or made a deal with a Japanese museum or whatnot it would be a really interesting video; deals with museums have been made before after all. Out of curiosity, how come you felt the urge to comment with such an obvious statement?

[@worldtraveler930]

A request for a Japanese rifle? Now that sounds like a request that his Dad should cover.

[@strahinjastevic7480]

@@Chandersson25 if he goes to a museum like that chances are he'd do a video on most of the rare and interesting stuff in it like the rifle you mentioned, no one knows when that'll happen tho and im sure he himself can figure out whats interesting to have on the chanel

[@ScottKenny1978]

Miroku made reproductions for a while, but I missed getting one.

[@jdstark24]

The InRange video on this scope from a few years back is classic content. The awesomeness continues to this day

[@aidancloke4398]

Interestingly Karl made a community post today highlighting that video. I figured Ian would have mentioned it in this video even as a little pop up

[@FloriFarfisa]

yes, a total InRange classic!

[@ben501st]

Sniper: can we get sniper scope? Officer: nein we have sniper scope at home. Sniper scope at home:

[@comraderevo2362]

Underrated 😂😂😂

[@victorwaddell6530]

I wish I could like this comment more than once .

[@Talguy21]

Oh, so a piece of equipment not designed for a task is bad at the task. Who could have seen that coming?

[@matthewkane1188]

If your using this scope nobody, but that's part of the problem.

[@michaelpettersson4919]

Once they adopted this "miniscope" for the sniper role and kept using it year not bothering to get something better it earned the title "worst sniper scope". For its intended use it may have be useful enough thou.

[@Dial8Transmition]

@@michaelpettersson4919 what was the intended use

[@kevinoliver3083]

​@@michaelpettersson4919The Wermacht did have a better scope for sniping, the ZF39. A 4x design from Carl Zeiss. But they couldn't build them fast enough to meet the unexpected, by the military, demand for snipers and their kit.

[@akrmki3389]

waaay back my family moved to the countryside, we found an old pelletgun in the barn which actually had a ZF41 mounted on it. Lost it in all these years but I've always wondered how the heck it would actually be practical. Guess it wasnt :v

[@starmano34]

I mean it'd be practical for a designated marksman who'd probably not trying to make shots over 500 meters most of time. But as a sniper scope yeah, it's practically worthless. You'd probably wouldn't even get much benefit using this thing over iron sights

[@akrmki3389]

​@@browngreen933 Netherlands (we lived close to a field used by the Germans as airstrip during OP Bodenplatte, not sure if luftwaffe groundpersonel had access to this type of equipment but that might be the origin)

[@akrmki3389]

@@browngreen933 hope so too :l

[@akrmki3389]

@@browngreen933 im not really sure what it was exactly but doing some research it resembled an old pump action Crosman, the ZF being awkwardly mounted to the rear sight with the WORST eye relief. The "gun" didnt function due to rotten seals and it was badly bend (literally pulled it out from under some old oak support beams together with a Stahlhelm) .. we already had a Sheridan Bluestreak so we kinda forgot about it I guess :(

[@akrmki3389]

@@browngreen933 Actually my granddad was a sailor on the Holland-America line, he brought it over from the states as a gift (along with a full size taxidermitized bizon head lol)

[@alexreams1060]

"The Russians took sniping basically more seriously than anyone else in the world" *stares at Finland* I wonder why that could be.

[@feistyvillain7308]

[Russia, as Mos Def from the Italian Job] "I had a bad experience"

[@gaylordpantamime]

Snow whispers

[@Azguella]

That's a serious wake up call how important a good sniper can be for a war

[@TheLakabanzaichrg]

It could in theory be cheaper to train and equip a handful of snipers who could hold back a german platoon

[@nmarbletoe8210]

Finland also taught Stalin that executing officers did reduce their efficiency.

[@tomt810]

Germany now makes cars with heated turn signal stalks. How far we've come.

[@SuperDeinVadda]

How long are you touching the turn signal stalks that you would notice the heater?? What a waste of money lul

[@generalilbis]

Well...imagine it's the middle of winter and you're driving along with a deliciously warm heated steering wheel in your hands. Taking your hand off the wheel to indicate a lane change would be unbearable with the difference in temperatures between the two parts ;)

[@Not_An_Alien]

Wut? That sounds crazy, maybe I've never lived in a cold enough environment.

[@alun7006]

Two million! Congrats, Ian. Keep up the excellent work. I re-watched the InRange video on the ZF-41 yesterday. Interesting to contrast the title of this video with the conclusions you drew back then! Very much an optic pressed into a role it was never intended to fill.

[@tomalexander4327]

Congrats on the 2 million subs Ian. I know this year must have been difficult with limited travel opportunities but you've managed to produce some excellent. Thank you for all your hard work and I'm looking forward to more Forgotten Weapons content in 2021.

[@SamK-vk7kb]

1:28 Had no complaints about my 5" 1/4 so far.

[@charles_wipman]

Very interesting history behind the scope; i remember the Karl's complains about how to zero it on InRangeTV, i bet the amount of profanity that didn't made it into the camera was high.

[@joe6167]

I'm just wondering if Ian has found any actual proof that the in the field ZF-41 mounts were real. I've heard for years that they may be a post war fantasy invention. So far nobody seems to know.

[@fishin_da_hood5020]

Kind of like every late war german plane

[@mrkeogh]

Bausch of Bausch + Lomb, who sold off the rifle scope business and are now known as...Bushnell?

[@glennschunemann4800]

Very interesting video Ian! Nice to have a long format video about this very cool scope.

[@cedrickropp]

„And this did not go as planned“, WW2 in a Nutshell. At least from the German and Italian perspective.

[@diamondflaw]

"I want a scout rifle" "We have a scout rifle at home" The scout rifle at home: this.

[@2nd_a_dad4791]

I’m continually blown away by the examples of vintage low and high production number military hardware that has survived for so very long.

[@greenefieldmann3014]

Did I just click on an Elbonian episode. When you got to the zeroing, there was no way you weren't taking the piss.

[@clothar23]

Sadly he isn't. I own a Kar98k with one of these things. The best thing to do is zero the thing for like 250 - 300 metets and make do. Anything else is just asking for trouble.

[@user-njyzcip]

Ian: ZF-41 is Germany's worst sniper scope Red Orchestra 2 players: I feel that

[@Lavourrin]

German HQ: We will provide our soldiers with tiny scopes. Otherwise the enemy might think we are overcompensating for something.

[@admiralboot]

*Tiger gunner in the back* "Vait, vhat?"

[@Lavourrin]

@Feminism is Cancer Who's Anti-German? You're delusional.

[@admiralboot]

@Feminism is Cancer also objectively wrong, but sure. Enjoy the delusions.

[@Nickcooper625]

I love the way the subtitles render "Mauser" and "mouse or..."

[@tomt810]

Not sure I've ever seen Ian in a flannel before

[@ArrowSmith95]

holy crap I sold that to Ian years ago. never thought I would see that again. glad to see it being taken care of

[@enricopaolocoronado2511]

Basically an example of "Good Idea, Bad Execution"

[@ReaperCH90]

I think it was more: good idea, good enough execution, wrong use

[@Grummar]

The squad designated marksman is a good idea as far as current wisdom goes but yeah, execution didn't quite get there

[@prjndigo]

The slots on the sunshades are for dust clearing/debris clearing. That way you're blowing past the lens not into it. You blow on them like a flute and get a swirly clearing action. You can get stick or twig through the slot and knock out any clods of dirt so you don't have to bap the Schissenpeeper to knock clods out. It keeps dust from swirling across your view inside the shades in a crosswind as well. Geez, 9 lenses they might as well have simply used a dot on a piece of waxed paper and one objective lens focused on the dot. This works _very_ surprisingly better than more complicated systems... try it.

[@nicholaspatton5590]

To be in a time where I can buy a cheap 2-7x42mm long eye relief scope for $50 and it’s better than this, which was fielded by an actual military.

[@nicholaspatton5590]

Of course mine ain’t quick detach, that would be sweet. It’s on a mount that replaces the rear sight.

[@donecoin33]

@latex glove theres no point to banning them lol, the average criminal doesn’t abide by the laws and thus doesn’t have to care about the ban; he will find a way to get a scope, meaning that MILITARY would have to respond without a large amount of casualties. You may ask “but the police can handle him,” no, they can’t if they don’t have precision scopes since they’re limited to the military

[@Pattamatt1998]

@latex glove you can't be serious, do you really believe optical sights really make a firearm that much more deadly? At what point does "harmless, bolt-action hunting rifle" become "deadly sniper rifle"?

[@The_Big_Jay]

What gets me is, a scope doesn't have to be big to be decent, and small scopes do have their advantages in certain situations, but why is it a scout scope mounted approximately 4 feet from the shooters face and about the size of a gnat's pube? There's no way getting a sight picture on that thing was easy.

[@jamiewarwick9987]

I'm just sorta focused on Ian's shirt...

[@zielfernrohr41]

Hi Ian, this is Ken. Thank you for referring to my website. Recently, I myself have made short videos on ZF41s, so take a look if you would like. I would also like to mention that the beginning of those little scopes had already begun around 1938, before the Polish campaign, before the war. I have shown it in my video. I believe the lag explains they were originally intended for self-loaders and not for the K98k.

[@KIWI_DUDE.]

*Me as a viewer of Soviet Womble* "Ah, the worst scope was called ZF you say? Makes sense"

[@AssassinKid0]

The virgin ZF-41 scope: - NOT intended for snipers since the beginning. - Standard issued to unreliable and failed self-loading german rifles instead Kar95 standard rifles, unlike the initial plans to the contrary. - Snipers hated it's deployment and use. The Chad PU scope: - Simple to use and produce. - Purely intended for M91/30 sniper rifles since the beginning. - Reliable and beloved, but inspired to make fully functional and assorted repros and further developments in current russian military and sport aftermarket.

[@gregcozier3705]

Interesting issue regarding improving rifleman accuracy by adding optics. I've heard the biggest impediment to K98k combat accuracy was recoil and resultant anticipation flinch.

[@RDEnduro]

Hey appreciate the video it's such a combination of history and firearms, there really isn't any content quite like what your doing anywhere else!

[@Markus-zb5zd]

WW2 Germany inventing the DMR role before they even know the word

[@termitreter6545]

I imagine there wasnt as much of a need for DMRs when everyone had high caliber rifles. But when it came to sniping, russia was way ahead of the world. IIRC they had hundreds of thousands of snipers during WW2, way more than anyone else.

[@jmace5964]

Accuracy training but no sniper kinda field craft training. just like the designated marksman the US and many others use roday

[@mbr5742]

And used designated marksman rather than snipers during the cold war

[@distalradius8146]

I can't stop staring at how bad somebody managed to booger up all four of the screws retaining the rings. Just go get the right screwdriver, bro.

[@austinbrown6593]

I had no idea the ZF-41 was so laughable as an optic lol and of course, in classic German style, it’s over-engineered lol

[@vulpsturm]

I don't remember the Germans considering this a "sniper scope".

[@averyunderhill4656]

I think I speak for a lot of people when I say more videos on optics would be awesome!

[@Whitpusmc]

This is really amazing to me. That it took 5 years (1939 to 1944) to get a proper sniper rifle into use when they started with a good rifle the Mauser K98 and good optical companies. They also had 50% of France by 1941 and could have gotten a French optical company to build the scopes based upon a German design. A fixed 4 power scope isn’t a very complex item.

[@kevinoliver3083]

The Germans did have a proper sniper scope, the Zf 39, by Zeiss. Plus they impressed many similar civilian scopes. But they didn't produce enough of them until 1944. So they had to press the Zf 41 into use with snipers.

[@michaelkaiser1864]

About 10 years ago, there was a guy at the dallas gunshow with 2 BARRELS FULL of these....they were all horribly damaged. Guessed russian capture. Wasnt sure why anyone wanted one other than for "neat" factor. They were in terrible condition.

[@michaelkaiser1864]

@Lassi Kinnunen 81 they were cheap enough. 20 bucks.

[@ronniewatts9110]

The little square holes is not to let light in... It's to let moisture and dirt out, you rotate them down as there is one on the front and back

[@alexm566]

Did you use it before? 🧐

[@jeffreys.nicholas9456]

Zeros with a figure 8 pattern.... Sounds like a real pain in the ass!

[@raptorcell6633]

I can only imagine how pissed a German sniper would be when he comes out of Sniper School trained on a 4X scope and etc given this little baby sight

[@superspinach5338]

Hello Ian, seems you forgot to add the link to the website in the description. Can't seem to find it using the name you gave us.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

It's there now.

[@superspinach5338]

@@ForgottenWeapons Thank you very much !

[@srobertweiser]

The sniper in the bell tower that took a .30-‘06 to the eye through the scope in the movie Saving Private Ryan also thought that was the worst German scope ever.

[@SonOfAldabarran]

I prefer the ZF 1, it's light. Handle's adjustable for easy carrying, good for righties and lefties. Breaks down into four parts, undetectable by x-ray, ideal for quick, discreet interventions.

[@moosemaimer]

He didn't even mention the little red button on the bottom.

[@marchonore]

In the memoir “Sniper on the Eastern Front”, german sniper Sepp Allerberger notes from his time at sniper training: “the Walther self-loading rifle was a pleasant weapon to fire, since part of the recoil force was absorbed by the automatic reload mechanism, its accuracy fell short of the Mauser carbine. For amusement we fired the semi-automatic fitted with the ZF 41 sight, and agreed with the tutors that its designers must have made it as a practical joke.” Allerberger used a Russian Moisin Nagant 91/30 and a Russian PU 4 x power optic during his first year as a sniper.

[@Sakkura1]

So the Soviets taught the Germans that snipers are dangerous. I guess Simo Häyhä taught the Soviets?

[@johnjones5061]

Ironic that he preferred iron sights

[@comradecosmonaut7746]

No the knew before the Russians shot them to pieces it's more like this. The Germans had a good sniper Programm during WW1, the brits one upped them, so after the war the Reichswehr had a sniper program with the goal of beating the brits. Then Hitler came to power, they partnered with the Russians (hence why the pu scope is technically a copy of the earlier German commercial scopes) and then Hitler went and said something along the lines of " the marksmanship training of the Wehrmacht is so good we don't need snipers".

[@TheCheat_1337]

No, the Soviet emphasis on sniping started much earlier, in the late 20s/early 30s. They designed a sniper adaptation of the Mosin in the early 30s and were using them against the Japanese in their border clashes.

[@jankastelec7579]

@@comradecosmonaut7746 It was true at the start of the war, but it luckily quickly went down town

[@Khalrua]

I would assume that the winter war was part of why Russia was so good at sniping by wwii. They had to learn how to counter simo

[@niftyschnifty813]

We still have this in german squads. It is called "ZF-Schütze". Every group has one. Edit: In G3 times. Now every soldier has a 3 x scope on the gun. don t know if they still have ZF-Schützen.

[@easterriot1916]

Did you make a celebratory video for 2 million subs? Because you deserve to brag a bit and also to give your subscribers a chance to fill the comments section with congratulations and praise. Thank you so much for the entertainment and education you have provided us over the years. Josef from Sweden.

[@Landsersajer]

You sir have read my mind.. I have been watching Ian since the beginning and this man deserves all the subs he gets.. I am from Canada 🍁 😁

[@easterriot1916]

@@Landsersajer Nice to meet another gentleman who has been along for the long ride. I take great pride in being a subscriber since Ian was doing videos in a little workshop with other people walking around in the background, and if I’m not mistaken I found his blog first to then be lead to the KZbin channel. I must admit that my activity on the blog is limited at best. You are another proof that forgotten weapons has the best and most polite comment section on KZbin. Nice to virtually meet you, Simon. Have a great 2021.

[@Landsersajer]

@@easterriot1916 real gun enthusiasts like us have a deep respect and understanding of firearms and the ingenuity of fabrication ... not some main stream media pushing a 30 clip magazine full auto chain saw wielding semi auto 556 assault rifle bullshit...

[@easterriot1916]

@@Landsersajer Not to mention all the history that goes along with it. My understanding of 1850 to present is greatly increased by all the tidbits of information that goes along with every story/video/firearm!

[@alexmoore1506]

@@Landsersajer what California politician explanation was that? Lol

[@fasuto8656]

Congrats on 2M Ian, just realized you hit the milestone

[@thefez-cat]

Issuing a short-range scout scope to a sniper, it becomes a "sniper scope" in the same way handing a .22LR garden rifle to a sniper makes it a "sniper rifle": only technically.

[@KonradSeverinHilstad]

Are these atleast good for their intended purpose, as msrksman's scopes?

[@packersfan117]

It looks like a desktop miniature model of a proper scope.

[@DjDolHaus86]

All guns have a 1.5X magnification, it's called squinting

[@Andrew-ps6xe]

I guess you could say that the project suffered from scope creep...

[@levelovixor]

as gun jesus said not really a sniper scope

[@ben501st]

Thou art neither sniper scope nor red dot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

[@danieljob3184]

ZF-41: for when you cannot find half a broken pair of opera glasses and a roll of duct tape!

[@tafino]

Despite being substandard, these things still are valued as if they were made by Copernicus himself. German engineering is amateurish compared to their marketing

[@NarraJoker12]

Good description for the entirety of the country lol

[@comradecosmonaut7746]

I mean they aren't sub standard if it's the only thing of its kind and they're valued like that because they are rare.

[@SuperDeinVadda]

@@NarraJoker12 I feel offended in my national pride Wait we aren't allowed to have any

[@loupiscanis9449]

Thank you , Ian .

[@agustinperretta1043]

It's a shame they couldn't use them as intended. Imagine the efficiency of the German squad with a properly trained marksman in those times. Also it's sad to think about the amount of potential wasted by having snipers with these and not with proper scopes.

[@curryman1819]

Bet the allied soldiers weren't sad

[@coyotearmory]

The zeroing process sounds mad fucky and I'm really glad this is the only time I've heard of it.

[@michaelkonjer5631]

Heroes & Generals WWII Flashbacks. I hate ZF-41 in this game.

[@macrossMX]

One of the cases where a DMR scope makes for a terrible sniper scope. This is basically the same thing as giving a US Army/Marine Sniper an ACOG 4x/6x scope for their M2010/M40 and tell them to make it work. Germany failed in one of the most important lessons when it comes to specialist units: "If you have to make specialized units during war time, you are already too late."

[@exactinmidget92]

Pretty sure thar saying "worst" anything German is illegal.

[@geoffreyjones2000]

My great uncle was an early marine "sniper" ... he was issued a 1903 with Redfield micro sights, sir

[@bag-chaser]

Scout scope!!

[@dbmail545]

I wondered how the sight was regulated. Josh and Henry mentioned that the one that they tested was a bear to zero.

[@thesmallestminorityisthein4045]

Turns out the Scout Rifle wasnt even a decent enough concept for the Germans to get it right.

[@shawnr771]

I was thinking Jeff Cooper had time traveled.

[@thelemon0001]

At least it doubles as a bludgeoning tool when you don't want it on your rifle.