Zipp 404 Firecrest Wheelset | Two Major Problems

[@PatrickLino]

My set of 404s are used, so they are past any "break-in" period. Also there is an entire Reddit thread dedicated to the inherent flaw of Zipp's ZR1 hub and it's not looking good. But regardless of the resolution and potential warranty fix, the bearing drag is not an isolated issue. Certainly not something any customer should overlook at this price point.

[@jakemccloud8368]

Bearing drag... assuming you have sealant in them, and the others not as you prefer tubes. The sealant will sink to the bottom slowing the spin to a stop a lot quicker, no?

[@kpizzle1985]

​@@jakemccloud8368no

[@455LT1]

I've been riding these wheels along with the 303 S for the last three seasons. I don't race so the comfort for me is excellent. Im not sure if they spin freer than other wheels in the class, but I love my 404s.

[@PatrickLino]

This is a well-rounded reply thank you. The comfort is there and the weight is solid. For sustained endurance rides where you aren't constantly accelerating I think they can make sense, especially with the fantastic warranty. I do think my particular set of wheels need to be serviced. A lot folks have had great success with road tubeless.

[@irgccg]

I've had my 404s for 2 years. Rode them in all kinds of conditions. They are light, still and fast. Yes I've re-greased the rear hub but then again I do that for all my wheels every winter. I love them!

[@duncancycles]

Hookless wheels are crazy, no thank you. Absolutely a cost cutting measure

[@PatrickLino]

Hookless and teethless haha

[@duncancycles]

@@PatrickLino funny! Pretty much

[@PatrickLino]

@@Bigkidbird4 I stopped reading at: "feel sluggish also" haha

[@ChiTownBrownie89]

I am not sold on it, I do not trust them.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

I can't see myself ever buying a hooked wheel ever again. That said, the cost cutting also resulted in lower prices so it's not really a profit grab

[@timwong6818]

Kinda same results with my 2-yr-old 404 firecrest. Honestly the spining time issue is total fine to me. The rim is light, so you in fact get lesser rotational energy compared to wheels with heavier rims. So you will end up with smaller numbers if you test with heavier rims. But, admittedly, yes, I think zipp's bearings are rather tight, but the difference it can make is so marginal that it basically means nothing when you yourself are actually riding it. Plus, I do prefer add some sticky sealant like silca's as it does work when punctured and brand new gp5000 is indeed a bit expensive. So, with sealant inside, the spining time is not going to look good. However, 404 do have other design flaws, or imperfection so to speak that makes user experience far from perfect: 1: The deep rim is easy to have water accumulated inside that you need air compressor to force the water out of rim if you ever ride them when it rains. 2: The zr1 hub is really dragy compared to other brands'. I think it is partially atrribute to its tick count (66 I think?) with a traditional hub design (they are brutal force the problem by just increasing the ticks without thinking about reducing frictions) 3: It is really a pain to install gp5000 on them, but once installed, it feels good. 73.5psi is a none issue for me at least since I am barely over 70kg. 4: ZR1 is also a leaky hub that you'd better dry it or even oven it after you riding it in rains or wash it intensively. I already broke the hub bearing once because balls inside the bearing rusted. 5: The spoke tension is on the lower side compared to similarly priced counterparts, which makes it feels a bit soft, as described in the video. I'd prefer cadex or enve next time. 404 gives me a feeling of being a half-prototype.

[@PatrickLino]

Overrated wheels for the price. Plenty of better designed and developed wheels on the market now.

[@GCPerformance18]

Super in depth detail video!! I loved it. Zipp is loved by the average consumer in the bike industry, they are marketed well people see them everywhere so they want them

[@PatrickLino]

Thanks Grant! Industry folks like yourself really validate (or invalidate haha) the stuff I say on here haha.

[@kubackjeee]

Zipp is McDonald's of cycling. Shit stuff that looks nice on photos. No thank you 😅

[@PatrickLino]

@@kubackjeee Ouch LoL

[@vladimirrosario6154]

@@kubackjeee😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅I’m SRAM user and I approve this message 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅

[@MattHoff-h2l]

This is a good and objective review dude! I had some old school (2015) 404s before my bike was stolen a few years ago, they were sluggish for the first few months and then they absolutely flew! Not sure where that came from, I switched to tubeless after the second year and didn’t see much difference in performance! Loved these wheels but if I didn’t have some great team at local shop I probably wouldn’t buy these for the cost… That being said, I wouldn’t buy cheap carbon wheels ever

[@1rickqwert]

Road tubeless is just to much of a hassle/mess. Tubeless is the way to go on gravel or mtb but I went back to tubes on all my road bikes... Currently running Princeton Carbon works Peak 45 50 with tubes. On a side note another great review!

[@PatrickLino]

Tubeless on gravel bike and my all-road bike is fantastic. I just need too much air pressure for hookless on road I think.

[@1rickqwert]

I had rim tape rupture on a tubeless hookless tire just sitting idle, It was funny because I was just walking thru the garage and I suddenly heard the rush of air coming from one of my road bikes (hookless tubeless) so I put some air in and the air expelled via a spoke hole. The timing was perfect as if it was just messing with my head lol.@@PatrickLino

[@PatrickLino]

@@1rickqwert Good lord that is both crazy and scary. What PSI do/did you run on your hookless wheels?

[@tonyg3091]

Tubeless on road bikes is absolutely fine, but you do need hooked wheels.

[@1rickqwert]

It was Cadex 42's and they say with my weight i should run 89 pounds of air, at the time I believe there was around 75 - 80 @@PatrickLino

[@JFomo]

Very accurate review. I too have the 404s, bought from new and the spin test is correct. It's the grease. Zipp bearings and a tone of THICK grease inside and will take FOREVER to break in (if they even do break in). I sped up the process by spraying a little bit of silicone grease into the bearings. I don't recommend you do that but that's what I did. They free spinned a lot better after that though probably not as much as the other wheels in this video. At the end of the day, a bearing upgrade might be the way to go but that's $$. I had Pirellis, Contis and Vittoria Corsa Pros on those wheels and only the Contis seated with a track pump. The Pirellis required a blaster and the Vittorias needed some soapy water. The 404s are no longer on my bike. I bought some 353s instead 😅 It was the same deal, the bearings had thick grease and I sprayed some silicone grease on them after 2 weeks.

[@PatrickLino]

This is fantastic intel thank you! Of course I want to be objective, and it seem like this isn't an isolated case.

[@JFomo]

@@PatrickLino I didn't know there was a whole internet thread on it. I guess I wasn't being crazy after all.

[@PatrickLino]

@@JFomo I usually stay away from Reddit, because the internet isn't a real place. However it's difficult to deny this issue.

[@JFomo]

@@PatrickLino Seem so though I would say it's the bearings and not the hubs. The 404s have ZR1 hubs and the 353 NSW have Cognition hubs but both use the exact same bearings. My fix was easy though I admit it's not ideal for the long term.

[@JFomo]

Just did a spin test with the 353s thats on my bike right now (404s are in my spare room collecting dust) and I got 17 seconds 😂

[@RemyBReel]

Got a set of 404s for the TT bike. Really happy with them but agree that I could've spent less and be just as happy with the performance. Save wherever you can

[@PatrickLino]

Send pics to my IG!

[@gregkane8635]

I’m running tubeless from 2019. I’ve had one puncture that wouldn’t seal on the roadside (I didn’t have dynaplugs) comfort is great very happy. I’m now booklets on giant rims but if I was buying wheels they’d be hooked. You should look into the hunt 54 wheelsets 👍

[@PatrickLino]

I have not heard anything great about Hunt Wheels. And a few folks locally have had problems.

[@gregkane8635]

@@PatrickLino never used them but they always seem to be to go to name in uk when people are after cheapish wheels

[@PatrickLino]

@@gregkane8635 I dont want speak bad on Hunt Wheels because I have not personally used them. However, I know their business model and pricing structure which is a bit of a turn off. Brands like Winspace, Elite, FarSports, and Magene have a made good new for themselves for great affordable wheels.

[@gregkane8635]

@@PatrickLino personally I think I’d like to try the elite 50d on my TCR

[@PatrickLino]

@@gregkane8635 I have code for Elite in the video description. That would be a fantastic climbing setup.

[@mateuspabst5150]

I just bought a brand new 330 firecrest whel set and I realize that the zr1 hubs get a little sticky as soon as through axle is tightened, no pendulum moves with a minimal tighten is aplicaded for exemple, no disc brake interference.... But after a few miles I opened the hubs (only remove the disc brakes and, with your hand, pull off the end caps and free hub) and I removed the excess of grease, there was a lot of grease... Its much better now but is not yet exactly the same when the axle is totally loose..... They are very expensive wheels and should spin looser... I am using a 28 gp 5000 s tlr and sealant.... Now I am happy, but I dont konw if that little sticky, in a real use, make me slower...

[@PatrickLino]

You should not have to do any fiddling. Especially for a new set of wheels. But even more especially for a premium set of wheels. Zipp is aware of these flaws and yet continue to sell as is.

[@aaronsummerville6187]

I’m a 235lb rider and this is my take: Tubeless is great. Hookless is problematic. I run tubeless on all of my bikes now. Since making the switch, I’ve gone from 5 or 6 flats per year with tubes, to 1 riding tubeless. I’ve only been stranded once in the two years since the change, and that was a sidewall blowout due to whatever I rolled over, so I couldn’t even use my spare tube. All of my wheels are hooked, so I still run higher (more normal) pressures. Maintenance-wise, you have to add new sealant every 3 months, but that’s not really an issue to me. I do take the tires off and remove the old sealant to save weight, but it’s not really necessary.

[@PatrickLino]

I haven't gotten a single flat this entire season using both latex and TPU tubes. Obviously I run tubeless for gravel however.

[@ginomordocco4710]

I have the new Enve 4.5 hookless. They’ve been great but I won’t get hookless again. Knowing what we know now. It’s just always in my head when I go for a ride. Will they blow up? Naaa, but it’s just a mind F now.

[@PatrickLino]

What's the internal width on those 4.5s???

[@LTBlightthebeam]

Do you run a carbon handlebar? Do you run a carbon steerer? I've seen those break more often than hookless tires blowing off the rim. Your mind is gonna be f'ed up more now.

[@PatrickLino]

@@LTBlightthebeam Mans came out shooting bullets!

[@tonyg3091]

@@LTBlightthebeamTell that to Specialized and ask them why did they go back to hooked wheels. I am sure they will be grateful for your priceless input.

[@sebastianm2381]

Hookless is fine, if you're using it in the right operating window. That however already requires an in depth knowledge that the average punter doesn't have. And there lies the problem. Bike shops shouldn't sell this to the quy next door who's just getting into cycling without telling them about the risks. Or manufacturers like Giant should put a giant (pun intented) warning sticker on their rims.

[@PatrickLino]

This is a fantastic point and logic being addressed. Thanks Sebastian!

[@BrianMcDonald]

I'm also running tubeless for the first time with S TR 32mm tires to go with Elitewheels G45 wheels and they have been really comfortable. After being worried about the setup process it was super easy. If things continue to go smoothly I may switch my 28mm tire on Elitewheels 65D to tubeless also.

[@ChinCycling]

I used to be just like you before I converted to tubeless but I’ll never go back to tubes, I have Enve 6.7s on my Ribble and gotten multiple punctures and made it thru the ride every time except for the 1 time I had to put a Dynaplug which took 30sec, Muc Off or Silca sealant will seal almost anything and when it comes to performance, that comfort that you feel should translate to higher speed

[@PatrickLino]

I really appreciate someone on the opposite side of the debate offering another perspective. Thank you and much appreciated.

[@JDRVP]

Love my ENVE 6.7s with TPU tubes and Specialized Turbo Cottons on my Allez Sprint Sagan! Haven’t had any problems with punctures. Knock on wood!

[@Thomas-fy9yc]

David Portnoy of Silva said it best…if you find you need higher pressures due to weight or tire size…you don’t exceed the recommended PSI, you need to go up in tire size instead and run the correct pressure.

[@PatrickLino]

This was mentioned in the video lol

[@illinoisBienesRaices]

I agree , also those zip wheels are over price for what they are ! Lunt wheels much superior and advance ( lun 67D carbon bearing blade carbon spokes ! Those wheels don’t bend even going down off road )

[@PatrickLino]

Lunt Wheels? Hunt Wheels? I haven't heard great things about Hunt either.

[@illinoisBienesRaices]

@@PatrickLino hyper D67 Lunt

[@lee1210mk2]

Winspace warranty is trash 🗑️

[@paulmorrison30]

Nice 👌🏾. I’m ol skool, so it’s hooks and tubes for me bruv ✊🏾👊🏾

[@PatrickLino]

I already sent the wheels back haha

[@MattHoff-h2l]

Also- I’ve NEVER had a flat on tubeless except for one massive gash through my tyre from a glass shard which would ruin both my inner tube and tyre in one I don’t think that inner tubes are the way anymore, as inconvenient as they were, I’d rather get a tacsi, or…. Cycle home because it’s covered by sealant! Just saying… if the sealant can’t cover it, a tube won’t hold it

[@dcv9460]

Awesome observation and review! Interesting! 😎👍💯 Love your Vids! 💯

[@PatrickLino]

Thanks for watching!

[@MrBillboeing]

What would be your choice between comfort and speed? I have a set of Hypers wich I have since 15k without issues. They are super stiff and responsive but sometimes I need a bit more comfortable ride since the roads are harsh where I live. I am looking at some Elite Wheels …. Thanks for your great videos

[@PatrickLino]

I find that shallower depth wheels provide more comfort, as the longer spokes provide more flex than a super deep wheel. I would say any wheel in the 40 to 50mm depth is a great start. Carbon or steel spokes.

[@MrBillboeing]

@@PatrickLino my Hypers are the 38 version, I think a alloy spoke might be more comfortable then the carbon spoke. I also use a 28mm or 30mm GP5000 tire. My problem is just the 💩 roads. So I am looking for a good wheel with alloy spokes but still lightweight < 1500g

[@PatrickLino]

@@MrBillboeing Look into Magene's new Ultra wheels. 1360 for a 50/58mm deep wheel. I did a video on these too. Still have carbon spokes but the 23mm internal width make for a comfy ride.

[@happydays8171]

​@@MrBillboeing I bought hypers w/ceramic bearings. One reviewer said on teardown he noticed Hyper hubs were lightly lubricated and suggested oiling them after break-in. Wish I would have listened, at 3,500 miles my outer 2 bearings under the spline went. But after replacing them, they feel like they are rolling better than new.

[@devananbissoon6378]

I have this same issue I actually have two set of the zipp firecrest 404 and it's the same

[@PatrickLino]

Were you able to remedy the issue?

[@abhimawa1]

Perhaps there’s not much R&D going into Zipp? More marketing than science? Having said that, I rate Giant cadex as satisfying ‘mature’ hookless wheelset → broad pressure range (albeit quite limited on tyre choice), very minimal drag (hub system), tough. Perhaps you should give them a try? I’m using them with Cadex Race tires and so far so good (but expensive)

[@zhoujustin1954]

though hookless are pretty problematic inconvertibly zipp wheels do look good on Allez🤩

[@PatrickLino]

No denying the comfort of tubeless!

[@zhoujustin1954]

@@PatrickLino touché

[@RideWithGerben]

"Maybe go watch a GCN video" LoL! Great burn :D

[@PatrickLino]

As I continue to showcase/review more big brand names, I expect more of these type of viewers to infiltrate my channel haha

[@nandopizzamiglio5874]

Thanks for the video. Very interesting. Does the fact that the wheels stop on the stand after 9 seconds mean that they are braked (bearing preload) or are they built like this? In your opinion, at 30km/h how many watts are lost by having a wheel braked like this? In your opinion, does the fact that it is braked on the stand mean that it is also braked in normal use? From your comments I perceive that the wheel is comfortable but less performing, do you think this is due to the tubeless or the fact that the hubs are braked?

[@PatrickLino]

What do you mean by "braked?"

[@nandopizzamiglio5874]

@@PatrickLino by braked I mean that the wheel stops after 9 seconds on the stand and it is as if there was greater friction perhaps due to the preload on the bearings

[@PatrickLino]

@@nandopizzamiglio5874 The wheels are preloaded with proper torque to the thru-axles. So this is how the hubs and bearings where intended to spin. Customers have reported this to be an issue, and ZIPP is well aware. Does this affect performance? Hard to tell, however they don't feel snappy out on the road.

[@nandopizzamiglio5874]

@@PatrickLino Thanks so much for your replies. I saw that you have a power meter installed. have you by any chance analyzed the data? Unfortunately I have the image in my head of the wheel spinning at 9 seconds on the stand and it makes me think of going around with the "handbrake on". I think the feeling is just mental.... thank you so much for your patience

[@ricardo_marmotti]

Great vid, thanks! You have some nice shades btw, which are those?

[@PatrickLino]

Thanks! They are from Monton Sports

[@galenkehler]

For me, as a normal size person, I'd need to run 34c road tires if i used hookless. Thats just too wide for the speeds im doing on the road, at least with the currently available wheels or road frames.

[@PatrickLino]

I’m board with the comfort and claimed rolling resistance of 28s + Latex/TPU on all my road bikes. However there are still times when I miss the road communication of 25s. At my weight, 80 PSI on 25s is perfectly fine.

[@galenkehler]

@@PatrickLino for me, I like following the engineering specs, and the tested limit is 72.5psi. I'm not going to plan on regularly running right at (or over) that limit, I'll run a width of tire that gives some room for error. Even in a racing environment I'm going for about 10% margin, so that's a pressure that gives me the 34c tire.

[@PatrickLino]

@@galenkehler I’m guessing all these pro crit teams using Zipp wheels must all weigh less than 74kg lol

[@gsmd770]

I run the Zipp 404 on my Pinarello and Cadex 65 on my Systemsix. Both hookless and I've never had a problem. Here in Europe the 404's only cost between 1299 - 1399 Euros.

[@PatrickLino]

What tire pressure do you run?

[@gsmd770]

61 front and 65 rear.

[@PatrickLino]

@@gsmd770 Must be nice to be a lighter rider!

[@gsmd770]

@@PatrickLino I'm 5'8 and 81kg. I don't know it in pounds anymore? I've lived in Europe so many years now. I'm from Gulfport,MS.

[@PatrickLino]

@@gsmd770 Crazy, I weigh 75kg and would not think to have the pressure that low. Maybe I'll try it this weekend lol

[@blinzi69]

bought the exact same wheelset. I am weighing 72kg SRAM calculator gives me 55psi and Silca recommend 65psi - maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle so I will start with 60 psi - btw the 404 are supposed to be the fastest out of all the zipp wheels.

[@PatrickLino]

Good stuff!

[@1sigma]

Also "Walk on By" is one of those "play on repeat" tracks

[@robertpetsel54]

Absolutely gorgeous wheels

[@PatrickLino]

Thanks!

[@rochtofenoldgen2494]

I was thinking about buying that wheelset, replacing my giant SLR 2, both are hookless and tubeless ready. Do you think it is a good purchase? I can get them for 1,500 dollars. Also, i run tubeless set up, soo, i will keep on that set up for get the maximum performance Thank you

[@PatrickLino]

The comfort of tubeless cannot be denied, especially if you are a lighter rider. If possible make sure you can inspect the wheels, hubs, and bearings in person before making your purchase.

[@rochtofenoldgen2494]

@@PatrickLino Thanks for the recommendations. The wheels are brand new, also I will inspect for any details

[@kevinrambaud]

@@rochtofenoldgen2494 did you buy the 404s? If so, how are they? I'm in the same boat than you. I have a pair of SLR 1 42mm and am looking for deeper wheels. Was thinking about a combo with the Zipp 404s and the Zipp sl-70 aero handlebar.

[@1sigma]

2:20 Ooohh...Shots fired! Let's go!

[@PatrickLino]

Cue the Biggie Smalls sample…

[@cornelhughes6763]

Pat what you doing to get those yoeleo sat wheels to spin like that, mine is about 40 to 50 sec. Have to be some special grease

[@PatrickLino]

The most important take away is any standard wheel, affordable or expensive, should be capable of at least 30 seconds minimum. 9 seconds is unacceptable.

[@adossantos69751]

I recently downgraded my 404s to gravel riding with 42mm pathfinder pro tires. It's crazy, I know, but I got fed up with the sluggish feel it gave me in my Tarmac SL7. So I decided to install it on my Crux. I wonder how long its gonna last on UK gravel/winter roads 😂😂 . I would say 3 rides until it pops a spoke.

[@PatrickLino]

Ahhh man haha. What wheels are on your SL7 now?

[@adossantos69751]

I currently have my Roval Alpinist on my Tarmac. The zipps have surprised me on the gravel. They are stronger than I thought! 👌

[@valiantabello]

Hyperbolic Syllable Whatever is my favorite song bro

[@PatrickLino]

Makes me feel SEXY when I play it haha

[@quantumdecoherence1289]

Love your videos mate. Live in the suburbs of Chicago and don't recognize that path. Can you share where that is? Thanks,

[@PatrickLino]

North Branch Trail 👍🏾

[@czts4778]

Curious how your crw wheelset freewill test compares to these wheels you use in the video. Thanks

[@PatrickLino]

About 3 minutes

[@jgnpikipiki]

Zipp hubs are so lackluster. Very slugish trying to get it up to speed is very hard!

[@PatrickLino]

Crazy how many people are saying. I literally had no idea.

[@endtimeslips4660]

i think it about the weight of the wheel. i have my old aluminum wheel with steel spokes i compare with my carbon wheel with carbon spokes. it surprise me the alloy wheel which more heavy about 790 gram than my Carbon wheel spin longer than the light carbon. both use steel bearing. and also it feel more rolling on heavy alloy wheel. but in acceleration the carbon wheel feel more quick than alloy. may be the weight wheel produce more centripetal energy than the light carbon.

[@PatrickLino]

The inertia and centripetal energy are probably what cause the wheels to spin longer. This is also why having the lightest bike setup isn't really necessary other than for climbing or constant accelerations. The same way it takes a freight train longer to come to a halt than, say, an automobile. Newton's first law of motion.

[@endtimeslips4660]

@@PatrickLino yes i think that is true.

[@TheCyclissimo]

Two major problems: #1. They cost >$2,000 #2. I'm a broke boi

[@PatrickLino]

As a P/1/2 racer, we need to have you test some of my wheels to get a pro person's feedback.

[@TheCyclissimo]

@@PatrickLino I'm a thicc boi too 😎 Do I smell a collab 👀👀👀

[@michaelgarcia5181]

Excellent review bro! I almost pulled the trigger in those 404’s. Sticking with my tubes in my GP 5000 and Superteam wheels. Thanks again 👍🏻 Mike from Texas

[@PatrickLino]

Thanks for watching!

[@nicoliroos4865]

Hey , thank you for another interesting video! Can you please consider reviewing the Lún Routte wheelset? I cannot find any reviews on it....

[@PatrickLino]

If I’m being honest they aren’t special, but should be solid for the price. Steel spokes and steel bearings are common at this price. I’d take them over the Zipps

[@nicoliroos4865]

I think at the $800 price point it's a good option... Thanks for your reply.

[@goldenretriever6261]

Those wheels look pro.

[@PatrickLino]

I just wished I looked pro while riding haha

[@kubackjeee]

McDonald's burger also looks good on marketing photos 😅

[@PatrickLino]

@@kubackjeee hahahaha 🤣

[@kyungi1]

Damn... Cafe wheels that's cold lol Yea the 353's and 454's are the stiffer faster feeling wheels out of the bunch. I'm also not a fan of tubeless and sure as hell don't care for hookless. Too many tire standards at the moment. Zipp also has an issue with their nsw hubs.. a lot of drama with those hubs.

[@PatrickLino]

Crazy how I have not heard about any of this before. Then again...my channel has focused on brands from the Far East. Thanks for chiming in!

[@BoFibbe]

My God, after reading here I start to regret my order, when reading this I think of iPhone people (buying the best marketing product) 😂 are they really this bad as people say here? Also wonder how people can have so strong opinions when they havent even tried the wheels 🤔

[@PatrickLino]

I think lots can be forgiven if you purchased the wheels on sale. At full retail price it becomes a point of contention.

[@BoFibbe]

Okej, well aslong as they give me more speed than my original Merida Team SL45s then Im happy. Thanks.

[@spongiebob94]

Can you ask an affiliate code from Magene for the wheels ? i would like to order them

[@PatrickLino]

Glad you asked. I just received my link last week. Use this code on Ali Express: 23MAUOC

[@MichaelRideout]

What’s your height and weight?

[@PatrickLino]

Tall and light

[@anderslagerqvist4287]

Coffee wheelset :D Zipp will like that!

[@PatrickLino]

$2000 coffee wheels!

[@eduardoschneider2010]

The way you don’t use the same force on all wheels makes the test not very accurate. Also some of the rims have a tire and some don’t have. The best way would be to use the same force and all with no tire at all

[@PatrickLino]

Fantastic

[@kubackjeee]

Zip hubs have been shit forever. And the hookles road techbology is s greedy joke. Zipp are just full of marketing shit etc. I really don't know how people are still buyin this stuff with all the options in the market smh.

[@PatrickLino]

Why didn't anyone tell me?

[@kubackjeee]

@@PatrickLino hahahs don't know mate but I just checked my cheap ass stock alu wheels i got with my scott. The wheel spins for 90 seconds 😅 and few grand zipp for 8 💀

[@tonyg3091]

Well look, they are hookless so majorly flawed by design…😂

[@PatrickLino]

I see what you did there hahaha

[@pvj9289]

Riding with hookless for a long time on Conti 5000 sTR 28 mm.. no problems at all.. comfy ride all the way..

[@PatrickLino]

What PSI do you run?

[@Mikekhoh]

Lousy wheelset, hookless is a lousy technology

[@andreortizdecarvalho]

I my humble opinion, spinning tells you nothing. It could mean just that the Zipp has more grease on it, or that then grease has more viscosity. I always focus on the feeling while cycling, how it responds, how it descent, how it accelerate.

[@PatrickLino]

If you watched the entire video, I mention the wheels feel sluggish and don't respond well. Too much grease, doesn't spin well, and sluggish on the road. Not exactly a recipe for greatness at $2000.

[@Squizzy05]

Overpriced rubbish. Hookless is pointless.

[@PatrickLino]

But but but...the comfort!

[@tonyg3091]

@@PatrickLino😂😂 You get the same comfort on hooked wheels

[@PatrickLino]

@@tonyg3091 😂😂😂😂 no lies there

[@chrispictures1]

Wheel hubs should not keep running. If the hubs are well lubed and fitted correctly they should run slower without any weight on them. A lot of these bike sayings are just myths.. Example,,, fatter tyres are faster, ABSOLUTE NONSENSE , obviously more friction, and have you ever wondered why track cyclists dont use them

[@PatrickLino]

1. Track cyclists don't run wider tires and lower pressure because they are racing on super smooth and flawless surfaces. Road cyclists have to contend with bad pavement and debris. Wider tires and lower pressure allow the tire to deform and dampen over bad roads which makes them scientifically faster versus track tires at 120 PSI. I'm honestly shocked you haven't done even the slightest bit of research before your roid rage. 2. I'll forgive you being new to my channel. Welcome. I've tested almost every single popular wheel brand including both ENVE and Zipp over 3 years. These are the only set wheels, ever, to have bearing drag. Well lubed bearings and good engineering should prevent drag. Again, your argument is backwards. 3. Even if I agreed with anything you mentioned, the main point of the video is that hookless tubeless wheels for the road don't make sense for me. And that these particular set of wheels are very sluggish. I don't care the wheels spun freely forever, if out on the road they are sluggish.

[@kpizzle1985]

You say friction doesn't matter then you say friction does matter. Either it does or it doesn't. Track riders do use wider tyres, Ganna set the hour record on a 25mm tyre, that's a pretty wide tyre for a glass smooth surface.

[@ramonoslen6514]

I do a lot of IG rides, these would be great, can I borrow them, wait, I am probably too heavy for these hookerless wheels...great review bruh🫡

[@PatrickLino]

🤬🤬🤬

[@josorzo11]

Hookless wheels is stupid concept, all in the name of profits

[@PatrickLino]

Probably haha