ZSS 11.0.0 Nerfs - What Still Works?

#ZedEssEss
Support me on Patreon: / oriosmash
Follow me on Twitter: / stawbs_orio
My Discord: Orio#9187
ESAM's video on the 11.0.0 nerfs: • DOES IT MATTER? ZSS Nerfs
Nair-Fair-Flip Kick: • Optimising Fair - ZSS'...
Small Battlefield Ladder combos: • Small Battlefield - ZS...
EVERYTHING About Boost Kick: • ZSS: EVERYTHING About ...
Special thanks to my patrons:
Dusk
Roberto Contreras
Crestsaretoblame
Jaysank
Kristoff Miller
Marco Guerra
Bret
Chris Pepper
David Onyx
Nick Raaberg
Richard Casey
Music: "Phendrana Drifts" - Metroid Prime
Dedicated to ESAM, and as always to my dear friend, Micklebarrow.

[@STAWBsOrio]

Corrections: 1) At 1:27 I just mean characters with frame 2 escape options. On characters with slower escape options you do not have to be absolutely frame-perfect. 2) At 5:45 I meant to say any move that is -5 or safer will be safe on ZSS's shield, and Dark Samus's neutral air still fits this criteria. 3) Likewise, at 6:00, I meant to say any move that is -2 or safer will be safe on ZSS's parry, and again Fox's neutral air fits this criteria. This is what happens when I only have 24 hours to make a video :(

[@dazzle854]

If you want make a video on Zair!! zair bair, zair boost kick, when it tech chases vs when its zair bair.

[@LOVELOOP777]

@@dazzle854 yes

[@omniboo1762]

Pikachu's looking real nice rn

[@qwerty1271780]

Save us from Chrom pressure!

[@SillyRoneo]

Funny how I was interested in Zss lately and this happens

[@zsoliddanys1083]

She is almost the same as before.

[@Diddykong8775]

Thanks Orio, I was looking for this. I'll always main ZSS no matter the nerfs she gets.

[@mark6865]

For me the biggest negative is that nerfing Nair nerfs her footsies micro spacing in neutral. Lots of times I throw Nair out to bait out a move just so I can move out of range slightly to punish. That extra 2 frames definitely makes a difference over time and makes her close up game worse

[@David_Onyx]

I could watch your content the whole day man. Another amazing video down the line. Also it's amazing you were able to create this video so quickly, props to you.

[@rimetime2541]

Thank you for your fabulous work as always, Orio! And the thumbnail is 10/10 hilarious.

[@HeroLAT]

Thank you for being on top of things. I thought I was going crazy. Keep up the truly excellent work.

[@k4iro84]

Very informative video thank you always Orio!!

[@CrimsonStrider]

was waiting for this. What sucks is I've always been horrible with using ZSS neutral air. But I've been practicing and in the past month started to use it comfortably and accurately. Heh.

[@theOkamiCouncil]

thanks for the insight sensei!!!

[@xnelga5000]

For advice for all zss mains out there, don’t take it seriously. Nair can still be safe is spaced correctly, as shown by game and watch and cloud’s up b in the video. Her up b can still combo, shown as the ladder combos being true, and with the zair -> up b.

[@danielnewcomer8120]

Extremely well done video! Deserves more attention

[@not_myosotis813]

thank you orio!

[@chriscicala324]

Nintendo out here nerfing cool characters... why can’t they just remove pikachu instead

[@garrettpullen9740]

EXACTLY! They literally buffed that piece of shit last patch wtf

[@ether2275]

We should make more noise hoping they listen next patch.

[@garrettpullen9740]

@@ether2275 haha not a chance but its worth a shot i guess

[@gracefulcharity8412]

Awesome stuff man great video thank you for this.

[@onyx_ebony7153]

Absolutely love your videos! this one gives me hope for ZSS (I am enjoying the Mythra speeeeed tho 👀)

[@Trisma]

Thanks, very informative

[@sirwilczek1813]

Some professional voice actors you got there my dude They have a wonderful career ahead of them

[@shinobuoshino72]

Wow, now I gotta learn to space nair. :(

[@thunderd7904]

Really wish they’d fix flip kick bouncing off nothing for compensation for nerfs since it’s something that’s unintended

[@greymatt3r889]

I wish they would fix the whole character

[@Durandi]

This video saved my life

[@KodakKid33]

great video... i am dead inside

[@DSMusic394]

1:21 Being a Bayo secondary, I'll take all the spare shadow-buffs she can get

[@Adam-jj9ql]

nice vid

[@kap1117]

Nooooo!! I was just starting to land nair flip kick and now it got harder...

[@zsoliddanys1083]

It still works at every percent as before.

[@kap1117]

@@zsoliddanys1083 yea Ive been playing her quite a bit today and it hasn't be that bad

[@zsoliddanys1083]

@@kap1117 The only set up that recieved a substantial nerf was zair to boostkick and even then, that still works. She is fine (still a top tier character), dont worry about it.

[@ether2275]

Reminds me of when I was a beginner learning Palu's confirm and then after I started getting better at it they removed it. At least that helped me learn reverse aerial rush. Still kinda annoying when I had put so much time into it. But now I kinda don't mind the nerfs anymore as I'm pretty decent at the game to understand what I should change about my gameplay.

[@xOwlBear]

For me, I struggle with ladder combos. I try to do the ladder combo of 3:11 with some characters and I can't successfully do it, I still get with Dark Samus but with characters like Yoshi, Fox, Joker; I can't. Am I doing something wrong?

[@MONSTEReXoARMY]

the bell is on and youtube didn't notify me of this video...

[@ahat4046]

I’m sad that they’re encouraging a more campy play style but as long as I can take stocks at 30 I’m happy.

[@zsoliddanys1083]

Exactly why she didnt changed much.

[@g.p.5150]

lol nair flip kick still works easy

[@julianbarba240]

I can never get the boost kick to connect (con only get the second hit) on the combo at 3:27 starting with fair 1. Any advice would help! I just cant figure it out.

[@not_myosotis813]

This made me actually sad. Now ZSS is even more incentivised to just camp. Her camping is easy but not very good or fun. Just gonna pick up another character who can viably play aggressive honestly.

[@jahalamu1174]

I agree with her camping not being fun but she has one of the best camping abilities in the game

[@shiwanmi]

I think it's fun 😅

[@EDENSSBU]

Thank you, glad they didn't gut her like Wario, keep up the good work!

[@itslethal4050]

I don't think these nerfs were justify, but I'm a diehard ZSS main (and simp), but I wanna see what this does to her in the meta.

[@garrettpullen9740]

For real. She was a completely healthy top tier. Meanwhile Pika literally got buffed last patch. Bs

[@jogbearcool8594]

I agree to a point, but her camping really makes her a problem, sad they didn’t fix it

[@garrettpullen9740]

@@jogbearcool8594 but like so many characters have broken camping. I feel like that’s not something you need to outright nerf. Her camping is obviously a good strategy but it’s not like broken or unfair where it needs nerfs

[@zsoliddanys1083]

This doesnt do much to her meta, she is almost the same as before. Wario on the other hand...his meta did changed.

[@Diddykong8775]

@It's Lethal Same :) diehard and simp haha.

[@silvesta5027]

I wish they nerfed flip jump (more landing lag or less i-frames maybe?) over her actual aggressive tools. It just incentivises her to camp more, and that’s a shame :(

[@STAWBsOrio]

Agreed

[@Bulletrack]

Retour d'expérience avancé (20aine de parties) sommes nous obligés d'agir pendant notre rôle car dans les règles du crépuscule il est écrit que l'on peux ne pas faire notre rôle style ne pas voler une carte où ne pas échanger ... ? Je voulais savoir s'il y avait un consensus. Parce que personnellement nous restons avec l'obligation de réaliser ton rôle peux importe les rôles dans la partie.

[@BHHProductions]

Whelp. RIP

[@FirebrandOP]

You are my sensei with zss so it hurts me as much as you

[@greengooow7964]

Hey, for begin thx for this video, i’m starting to main ZSS and it will convenient for me. But do you have any tips for train to her combos. Should i train in training or directly in real game ? And for yogi combo, must i use the buffer to succeed ? I’m a little noob on this game but i want to improve my with skill with her. I hope my english is correct. Thx.

[@STAWBsOrio]

Find a training routine that works for you. I think practicing in the training mode and in real games are both equally important. For the yogicombo, you should use the buffer at some points. See my full video for an explanation.

[@eboki1641]

well I guess that means I have to play even better now

[@greymatt3r889]

Crying rn

[@merP.-YT]

Orio just really wants to be a pika main.

[@janswhatsupdoc]

Hopefully she doesn’t fall out of obscurity and remains strong enough like smash 4 sheik when she got nerfed Don’t know why everyone else was so happy, these nerfs were vile and unnecessary imo

[@brentonmckiterick4786]

What are your thoughts one year on from this? Any new discoveries or updated opinions on how viable she is?

[@LOVELOOP777]

Bro good question

[@shuggie83wuggie97]

Back to Bayo I go.

[@xnelga5000]

idc if they nerf zss every patch, i will always stick with her i actually practiced online with her a lot in the oast few days and shes still pretty good

[@xnelga5000]

Dont take it seriously though, the nerfs arent that serious

[@Dn_119-w7w]

Same same, can’t give up on my girl even if she sux

[@slowcookerhomeplanet]

Hi ian

[@someguy3321]

Zss upair is still -2 on shield and nair is still extremely safe and difficult to parry if you mix up timing and options. If you needed nair to be -2 on shield to be aggressive and safely attack shield your shield pressure wasn't good to begin with. Online isn't beneficial for many characters outside of mashy low tiers so zss being minimally worse online isn't saying much either.

[@FlauntingAbyss0]

Is jab out of shield not the fastest option? I thought her jab came out on frame 1?

[@Faber892]

i know your comment is kinda old but maybe you are still waiting for an answer. while jab is indeed frame 1 and her fastest move, it is not the fastest move "out of shield". there is no actual jab out of shield because a jab requires you to drop shield, or else you would perform the grab macro. dropping shield takes time itself tho, while special moves and smash attacks can be done without waiting for the shield to drop

[@joehsjsjjsisjsbwjs1153]

@@Faber892 well if you parry then it is the fastest option so give them that lmao

[@Unnkxn0wn]

Now we have to turn into sonic and camp until the timer runs out 😬

[@jorgeabaezp9365]

Dunno this patch did feel like a balance patch.. Like if you have to space your aerial to make it safe, so be it. it's like that for most of the cast save for characters without disjoints like say mario (you still have to land it low) and for characters with a disjoint like zss nair, it's just fair. Also to have an oos with reasonable drame data that cannot punish everything is okay that is a privilege few charcters have and to be fair no one should have a punish all option. Her game plan remains untouched and her bnbs seem also for the most part untouched. As for the chrom mu, my guess is you still have your top notch mobility i think zss should be able to play around chrom. Dunno might be mistaken on that one.

[@mattex200]

I like the patch , it made her more skillfull

[@kap1117]

She already required a lot of precision before this

[@Diddykong8775]

@@kap1117 This is true. It's not like anybody could pick her up and be good. She has always required precise movements and spacing.

[@lionheart3326]

no way

[@panthakurai5267]

We'll always have... Sheik 😉

[@adrianyogi3863]

The one guy that disliked the video is totally someone that got hit by the Yogicombo and is salty.

[@mattkim5077]

I’m a Ganon main that was just starting to pick up ZSS but now that he’s got a buff and ZSS got a nerf, I’m not so motivated to learn her anymore lmao

[@jogbearcool8594]

Ganon’s still about 3 or 4 tiers worse than zss but ok

[@zsoliddanys1083]

Her nerfs did almost nothing to her.

[@mattkim5077]

@@jogbearcool8594 Ganon is easily the worst character in the game. Still my best character though.

[@mattkim5077]

@@zsoliddanys1083 watched the whole video, and I would agree. I think I’ll pick her up eventually.

[@172rkgk]

Wish they would have incentivized a more aggressive playstyle instead if they were going to nerf her. ZSS is one of the best campers in the game and nerfing her so that she’s more likely to play passive and camp only makes the issue worse

[@dubudub876]

Are mashers on elite THAT afraid of getting schmixed by marsss and zss...? She was already hard enough to play online 🙄

[@SmokesOnMe]

Laughs in Chrom

[@eonamiella2124]

I'm a few months late but thank you for explaining the changes in depth like this. Seeing her get nerfed several times has been really frustrating, especially when characters better than her or in similar tiers often just get slaps on the wrist. And stupid Pikachu is still at full strength. I really hope Sakurai finally leaves her alone after this, the lack of oos options she has now really hurts. Yeah she's still good but she's continually getting harder and more precise to play which I'm not a fan of

[@tavo31]

Yogicombohype

[@lordtt3984]

Aw man I was glad ZSS got nerfed until I heard passive play is the wave for now :(

[@Charlight]

ZEDESSESS SUX

[@KrazyKaiju714]

Maybe people will stop asking Marss why he doesn't pull the trigger on boost kick lol.

[@gunslinger9786]

Congrats now us zss players will be playing passively, and everyone hates campy zss. Thank Sakurai.

[@lorenzovismara9385]

Wario and ZSS nerfs were absolutely undeserved

[@zsoliddanys1083]

Wario nerfs were pretty bad. ZSS nerfs were whatever.

[@casaroli]

She’s not an easy character to play. Were the nerfs aimed towards the competitive scene?

[@omegalilbchass8270]

100% yes. She was considered top 1 in japan

[@unknowed1544]

They Will buff her again in a Few patchs, don't worry friends

[@omegalilbchass8270]

Nope

[@ashemabahumat4173]

Welcome to the club... ZSS deserved it, tho

[@noirlavender6409]

This is so utterly unfair, Marss isn't even dominating that much, I don't understand why they had to ruin the upB, now it sucks. It was bad enough before when if you started it 2 frames late stuff like bowser's sideB could still grab you anyway. Even with all the tools she has SSZ is a difficult, extremely fragile character. I'd like to know who is smash bros ultimate being "balanced" for. Because it certainly isn't being balanced for casuals or tournament goers neither, it's weird.

[@Uppercut92]

They dont care, they just want to add in whatever to make folks think theyre paying attention. then of course they add dlcs that are as balanced as a scale with a brick and a penny on either side

[@bluarrow4505]

Bro, suck it up. ZSS is still top 10. Just because your top 5 character got nerfed just a little bit compared to Wario doesn’t mean they are dog shit unviable. Try maining an actual low tier like me, an Incin main, where he hasn’t received any buffs since Min Min was added and when he does receive buffs, they don’t do anything to help his placement on tier lists since they just make already strong moves even stronger.

[@noirlavender6409]

@@bluarrow4505 Wario's uptilt didn't even look like it was supposed to linger like that from the beginning, not to mention even before nerfs Wario combos were way easier than ZSS's, he also weights much more, and his fart was a busted comeback mechanic with several combos that lead into it

[@zsoliddanys1083]

Boost kick doesnt suck at all wtf...its still an insane move and they are not nerfing her because of Marss, Japan is dominated by ZSS players and she is somewhat domoinant online. She is still an amazing top tier character, people just overreact over a few mediocre nerfs.

[@Silverwind_23]

How to beat ZSS? Answer: Shield

[@Bean_Burrito00]

Sad

[@victoreduardocastanedacast9508]

Very sad

[@Erox006]

The patch that killed this channel ....

[@STAWBsOrio]

Nah, just me needing to be an adult for a while.

[@gabrielruiz1545]

En español.orio

[@davidneilan6793]

I am the first to leave a shitpost comment

[@zsoliddanys1083]

Ive been maining ZSS since day 1, 3 games in a row. The nerfs she recieved in Smash 4 were insanely bad and meta changing, she has been recieving slaps on the wrists in ultimate so far. People saying "omg they ruined her, she is bad now" are probably ZSS mains that picked her up just in ultimate. They made her just a litte bit more punishable which is actually fair. She was top tier before the patch and she remains top tier...stop overreacting.

[@Khaliljt]

I hate this. They essentially just made zss less accessible and she wasn’t that easy to get into to begin with

[@nickpayet5396]

I wish they nerfed zair instead why encourage people to be campy instead of aggressive

[@MikeCornejo]

It went from ZSS sux to SSBU sux

[@zsoliddanys1083]

She still top tier.

[@MikeCornejo]

@@zsoliddanys1083 you’re obviously not a zss main or just a casual player or both

[@zsoliddanys1083]

@@MikeCornejo Been maining her since day 1 for 3 games in a row. Im just not a Marss' sheep, not stupid enough to say that an obviously great character sux.

[@SallowDawn]

This game is far too much effort for far too little reward.

[@ooochoa]

For what i understand. The character now is worst online.

[@juanmelendez3144]

Why I gave up on smash. When they nerf characters. They do too much to them. I honestly would rather see buffs than nerfs.

[@bluarrow4505]

These comments of ZSS mains complaining is honestly sad. Your top 5 character got nerfed to top 10 and now you have to space your nair, suck it up. Try maining an actual low tier like me, Incin, where you haven’t received a single buff since Min Min’s release and whenever you *do* get buffed, it’s just making an already strong move even stronger instead of actually fixing something like his run speed or recovery.

[@STAWBsOrio]

I’m sorry about your affliction.

[@bluarrow4505]

@@STAWBsOrio lol it’s fine, it just stuns me how some people have the audacity to complain that a top 5 character that needed some form of nerfs, got nerfed. Nice video tho, very well done and thought out

[@zsoliddanys1083]

This, i feel like im one of the few mature ZSS players out there. The nerfs didnt changed her as much as some people like to say, she was top tier and she remains top tier. All they did was making her slightly less safe than before and thats honestly a fair nerf considering how ridiculous her movement and disasdvantage are. And i dont think she was top 5, she was top 10 somewhere and still is.

[@Diddykong8775]

@@zsoliddanys1083 She was never top 5. People just don't know how to fight her and have always overrated her because of Marss.

[@sealvain6810]

@@bluarrow4505 bUt mY lAdDeR cOmBoS!