Zwift Race | Cat B advanced tip- Out the saddle

After a tough few days of running and burnt legs i really had to put the graft in on the climbs. Ive been working on riding more out of the saddle to help change things up and work on some advanced skills. Its really paying off.
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[@MarkyMarkZwifts]

Great racing with you tonight Max. You did great, you looked like you were actually enjoying that hideous NY KOM! Those 16% sections are real killers and I ended up grinding up them in the wrong gear too for some reason. I was out the saddle and would normally change down a few gears, no idea why I didn't! You looked really strong out the saddle on the climbs. 👊💪💪💪

[@thewattlife]

@MarkyMarkZwifts Thanks for the help during the race with the tips. I love the KOM- just messed the gearing up which was annoying, i guess not knowing what was coming was a small art of the puzzle, if id known its ramped up that steep i might have been ready for it with my gears. Haha glad to hear you did the same as me, i run a mechanical on my turbo, which to be fair runs a lot smoother now with a new cassette and chain but i still worry chaining gears under a lot of tension.

[@VeloViking]

Hi there! I think I raced with you yesterday as well and that we ended up in the same group after the gruelling climb. You managed to beat me in the sprint at the end as well! If you would like to see how it went down, you could watch my race video here ; kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXq1dKyiftGSq8U

[@MarkyMarkZwifts]

@@VeloViking Hi, thanks for the link, I'll check it out! Here's my view of the race: kzbin.infoqtzinTrOk_Y?si=Vjj8z0btjqfp3zp-

[@rohanarora85]

Max, ur getting just better and better each ride, its amazing to see u progress...really inspiring and the way you explain ur efforts, are honest about it whether its good or bad according to u...keep it up...great to see u getting more and more subs 👍 Ride On!

[@thewattlife]

Thanks man, appreciate it. Still enjoying it and trying to remind myself of that when things get hard.

[@peymojo]

Great analysis and great job in the race Max! Love the focus on this specific technique here. Definitely something I can work on.

[@thewattlife]

Thanks man and good race

[@brianbarnes59]

great job on the race today! and for these types of races, you have to get out of the saddle. wherever you are on a course, you have know when to sit and spin, sit and roll with a bigger gear, get out of the saddle and change cadence, or when to take a few harder efforts, etc. just to maintain position or cause splits in the group. I had nothing in the tank 3/4 of the main climb up and was surprised to see where you were on the course when we caught up. but really good job getting over and practicing new techniques. it makes a big difference!

[@thewattlife]

@brianbarnes59 We ended up with a good little group huh, i think once we got over the other side of the climb it was also going to be quicker if we grouped with more riders to share the work load/sit in the draft. Need to find a time to try again

[@psymanj73]

Top racing, Max! 🎉 You really are starting to look super strong now and ready to contest at the front of B cat 💪 🚲

[@thewattlife]

Thank you, hopefully in a few months, with a good build and a little bit of rest, im hoping to be prime time competitive

[@agunner80]

Good ride Max. Yeah out of the saddle is smart, around 60-70 rpm going uphill. Can also be effective on the flats to catch someone in front or break away. Also when you get practice you can kind of «dance» on the pedals to be even more effective.

[@a_diverge]

That was an amazing effort. Super well done 💪😎

[@thewattlife]

Thanks, actually really enjoyed that course. I think knowing more about the route would be good but the surprise of it all made it more interesting!

[@a_diverge]

​@@thewattlifeRacing it today myself. Know some parts of it. Zwift Games starts this Friday. Will be a B cat madness

[@thewattlife]

How do I get involved with the Zwift Games?!?

[@a_diverge]

​@@thewattlifeJust like Zracing, should be on the main page to register. 😎 BTW my internet dropped 3 times in the race today. Worst B race result so far 🤦

[@YerenRosie]

Great race, mate. You don't come across as confident or arrogant at all. No need to worry about that. I've always found out of saddle climbing (grinding I think they call it?) has been beneficial for me. It's not for everyone, but it works for me. A mental trick that out of saddle climbing I use is that I think that gravity is helping me. So at the top of my pedal stroke, my body weight (and thus gravity) helps to push the pedals down (as well as whatever power I also put into it). Whether gravity helps much at all, I don't know, but it feels like it does haha. Great race again mate. Half the battle with climbs is knowing the course. When to attack, when to sit in, when to grind, what gear to use and what gradient etc. This NYC climb is particularly tough. Breaks me eevvvvvvvvvverytime ha.

[@markusseppala6547]

The gravity does help but you can't skip doing the work that gets your body up there first.

[@thewattlife]

@whielyex Thanks- i think that was what caused me to end up grinding in a really low cadence. I was using gravity and dropping my body on the pedals and just didnt bother clicking through gears and all of a sudden the road hit 17%!!! Defintinely feels like gravity is helping when out the saddle so going to keep working on it

[@ModerateCyclist]

Typically HR will go up when out of the saddle because more muscle groups are engaged. Definitely a weapon in your arsenal to be utilised. I think it’s good to use as a get out of jail card. The cost of getting dropped as way worse than the price of a few extra matches.

[@glennicol1361]

I must admit riding out of the saddle indoors felt weird at first and was a bit concerned about the bike frame... But definitely helped alot and then got moved up to Cat B pretty soon after...

[@bitminerbob6731]

I had a coach tell me think of your body like a giant piston, and that's pushing down on the peddles. You'll probably generate 200 more watts using this method but it doesn't last for too long. Handy if you're on a shortish steepish climb, as you were in the vid there. You can incorporate more upper body too, helping to push that giant piston up and down. But I don't need to get out of the saddle during races these days, as I stick to the flatter courses and you can easily stay in the bunch in the saddle, until the sprint of course, when it's 40 to 50 strokes full gas out of the saddle. :)

[@thewattlife]

It’s something I’m starting to work on now and quite enjoy the pain that comes with it. Might even help my sprint as well. Win win

[@joshvillen]

Glad to see it Max. Tip 2, you have the upper body USE IT. When out of the saddle it doesnt need to be a lean forward tricep pushdown. You can actually lean back a little and row the shit out of the handlebars with your lats and biceps. A great visual is trying to maintain more of a 90 degree angle with your elbows, less up and down bouncing and significantly smoother power transfer....but tiring as all hell. Its gonna shift the load more toward hamstrings, butt, and lower back

[@thewattlife]

Will work on a few different out the saddle styles when i hit the Alpe this Friday - thanks for the tip

[@alchemy8132]

In short you'll push out around 25% more power(even more on a sprint finish, but that's not sustainable) riding out the saddle but it will fatigue the muscles more. I guess it's all about balance, timing and recovery. Shorter, steeper climbs are great opportunities to get out the saddle, but then you'll need to recover from the extra exertion. In contrast, if you ride Alpe du Zwift you're going to spend most time in the saddle, spinning a high cadence, using your vascular fitness rather than high end wattage. Get out the saddle when you attack! Good video 👍

[@thewattlife]

@alchemy8132 Ha every time i go up the Alpe im like "im going to crush most of this standing" and after about 3 mins im like "nahhhhhhh" and sit back down. Its humbling but at the same time i think worth working hard to improve as will make me a better rider. It was really showing on those small 20-50 sec punches last night

[@ortizma13]

FYI that heavy leg pain you feel isn’t lactate nor lactic acid. It’s muscle fatigue. That “second wind” feeling is when you are using lactate as a fuel but this doesn’t result in pain or soreness. Andrew Huberman has a great podcast on this

[@thewattlife]

Yes this is good knowledge. I think i knew this but often gets referred to as 'lactic' given that one of its rolls is a neurotransmitter to signal the muscles to stop working, so while the pain itself isnt directly caused by lactic the pain combined with the neurotransmitter signals are bundled up into the lactic effect

[@niklasbirksted8175]

I think you can gain even more if you start varying your cadence more. It seems your cadence sitting and standing is fairly similar (maybe one gear higher/lower, sometimes the same gear even) and if you want to fully utilize the benefits of standing, many athletes will find that 1) a higher cadence when sitting is beneficial, as you can start working almost exclusively aerobically, while 2) being able to use slightly more anaerobic efforts to recover aerobically. Ie. while standing you can do better punches (obv), but you can also help lowering your pulse (which is somewhat general for lower cadence work). Thus, by training and widening your cadence spectrum, you also unlock more of the benefits you can gain from having various positions on the bike.

[@phil_d]

Yeah, I find the out of the saddle routine off the start line very useful. You can smash 300-400w without burning loads of matches. Pop it in a small cog and grind 60-70rpm. Very useful on short climbs in crit racing!

[@thewattlife]

@phil_d The out the saddle start is an underused feature which i think i will do more off. Sometimes i guess im just lazy and stay seated because im reasonably fresh i can put down the watts, but standing is just an easier way and less demanding

[@phil_d]

@@thewattlifeDefinitely! I'm only Cat D, but some of the riders can really get off the line so I had to learn and adapt!

[@DontGetDroppedCycling]

Damnnnnnn son it’s like you’re a new rider now. You can thank me later 😉 Ya blew it when you were grinding cuz as soon as you get to that crest it’s flat and the big boys with raw watts will start to take off (don’t ask me how I know 😅) You gotta be out the saddle because everyone else is and if you’re not you’re not pushing the same big watts as everyone else and that’s how you end up going backwards until you get drizzy dropped. #zwiftcraft

[@thewattlife]

@DontGetDroppedCycling Erik with the knowledge bombs. We need to line up in another race. Feeling like my fitness is coming on a bit now, might be able to hold your wheel

[@0sorter0]

You can approach cycling just like that - casually🕺. Or you can learn how to do it properly, which improves overall performance and results. Riding in the saddle, riding out of it, choosing the right moments to go out of the saddle, and so on. Doing drills and trying to do them correctly is very important (and boring) 😅

[@BLachance75]

This is something that I need to work on. I usually power through climbs seated but by the end of a race my legs are too fatigued to sprint. Hopefully using different muscles while out of the saddle will help with that.

[@thewattlife]

@BLachance75 This is exactly my issue and how i was doing it. Erik watched me go up the Sgurr and told me off for doing it. Now ive tried to change that

[@ChristophVonBagel]

Every time I get out of the saddle and sit back down my watts go to sh1t lol … great job !

[@thewattlife]

Haha its a delicate balance. This is what i found when i first started doing it and had to work at building up out of saddle strength

[@rodstevens7452]

I have been trying ages to find the answer but riding out the saddle up climbs is so much easier than spinning, did the alp out the saddle at 3.5kg felt good then trying to do it at 3.0kg while spinning felt sick and dying however people say you had to sit in 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️ surely efforts are just efforts?? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@JoakimImmerkjaer]

Great race Max! If you remember me from your video a couple of videos back, I was talking about possibly riding Cat(A). I just rode the stage 4 and when I finished I got promoted to Cat(A) :). I was also wondering, I wanted to try and race with you, is there a place where you write when you race so your followers can race with you or do I just have to be lucky?

[@thewattlife]

@JoakimImmerkjaer I race every Monday night at 6pm (usually the 6:10pm UK ZRacing Monthly event)- this month however its the Zwift Games so will be the 6pm Zwift games event on Monday

[@daviddaniels6335]

Thanks for the continued content Max - thought this for a while so thought I’d ask, what exactly is a ‘Cat B Pro’ ?!

[@thewattlife]

Its a bit of a colloquialism for riders in Cat B who like to race but who might be stronger than the Cat enforcement watts- sometimes often without realising. So i guess they could be Low-Mid Cat A riders.

[@daviddaniels6335]

Thanks Max - surprised that Zwift doesn’t bump them up automatically if they are racing miles above the top end of B Anyway, all a bit of fun. Keep up the great content!

[@KikeLiLK]

I'm an out of the saddle type of rider especially when it comes to climbing both in Zwift and in real life. I struggle being seated while climbing for a long period of time and I'm actually working on the opposite as you, trying to improve my seated climbing but nevertheless I always was, I am and I always will be an out of the saddle climber type of cyclist😁

[@treyquattro]

"this lemon has been juiced" 🙂 Good tips overall

[@thewattlife]

Lol. Thank you

[@tombarnes2652]

I need to work on out of the saddle efforts as well, though i think the heavier you are the less you want to be out of the saddle.

[@KO47893]

I think I'm quite the opposite from you; I need to train more IN the saddle. It's easier for me to maintain higher watts that way. There's a popular climb near me that my PR is a 31:04, and in total I probably spent under eight minutes of that seated. Also, going under 50 rpm isn't a big deal. I usually hold around 55. If I'm as high as 65, I either need to shift up or sit back down. BTW, those are some pretty killer running times. I'm hoping to go sub 40 on a 10k this year.

[@thewattlife]

@KO47893 Ive recently been working on my power a bit so shifting to riding out the saddle seems to be paying off and making me a bit more well rounded. Previously id very rarely stand up. Thanks for the kudos on the run times. Hoping to nudge them down a bit before Summer

[@mariovr8416]

Get out the saddle for 2 min efforts on a hill. It is great for developing a higher 2 minute power. Aim for 6+w/kg for the 2 minutes.

[@thewattlife]

Will try some shorter efforts this Friday and see how it goes

[@mariovr8416]

@@thewattlife try and keep your cadence at 70 - if higher go 1 gear bigger, if lower drop a gear ⚙️

[@MattiasThyr]

You just experienced that running is not the same muscles as in cycling

[@eloann]

5 minutes efforts out of the saddle sound like torture to me, but may be a good exercice to try. I find anything over 1 minute quite uncomfortable.

[@thewattlife]

I think it’s the fact that it’s uncomfortable which is making all the difference in performance. I’m quite enjoying it but I think the running has been helping

[@VeloViking]

Hi there mate! I got to do a race "together" with you again, even though you dropped me on ther KOM climb. Don't klnow how you do it with running and cycling all week!? Like you I have also been focusing on standing up on inclines, but on the longer climb yesterday I couldn't stand all the way up. If you are interested you can see my race video her; kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXq1dKyiftGSq8U See you soon in another race!

[@thewattlife]

The aim is to keep improving slowly and steadily which I think we're both doing. Keep at it.

[@kirstenlaraa]

I’m first?