The 109 hunting tactic was normally the peck and zoom, not a turning fight. That changed when Goering ordered them to stay with bombers.

A great book called Through the Hanger door

Absolutely brilliant Sir that was my Father 1940 aged 17

Thank you Dilip, for keeping the memories of those who served alive.

Thank you for the kind words about our hero Keith Park.

Another Battle of Britain memoir I'd like to mention is "Tail of a Guinea Pig" by Geoffrey Page, who had flown Hurricanes until he was shot down in August 1940 while attacking a Dornier and badly burned. He would later in the war resume flying fighters in combat. I read that book back in 1981 when I was in high school and thought it was a terrific book.

Dilip, just wanted to add that I fully agree with your comments on the superb “First Light” production. It did full justice to Geoff Wellum’s book and deserves another showing, though doubt that will ever happen these days. I saw it again recently via KZbin so it is on here. Btw, has anyone seen “Shamrock Spitfire” an attempt to tell the Paddy Finucane story? Lots of cgi (not always accurate or believable) but it doesn’t detract from the basic story (obviously glamorised for the screen) of the short life and career of that extraordinary young pilot.

Always good to hear more verified information about the Defiant and it’s aircrew! Jim Bailey (a 264 Squadron pilot) says in his book “The Sky Suspended” that the colourful Sid Carlin was nicknamed “Timbertoes” due to his wooden leg, but also repeats the myth of Carlin attempting to shoot the German raider from a Defiant’s turret. Keep up the good work chaps 👏

Hi Dilip, just revisited this fascinating podcast and wondered if you are referring to “Defiant - Forgotten Heroes of the BoB” when you say towards the end that there is a ‘recent’ book littered with mistakes? I ask becos I found it a good read (with helpful footnotes) when I wanted to learn more about the Defiant a few years ago. Meanwhile, can’t wait to read Andy’s book…👍

Been there 👍

Sir Keith Park born 1892, Thames New Zealand.

Great that you went to the RAF Hornchurch Heritage Centre, Dilip. It is well worth a visit and as you say, manned by volunteers/enthusiasts on weekends. I was particularly impressed with the collection of Brendan “Paddy” Finucane’s uniforms and artefacts, including (I think) his medals. I was fortunate enough to fly over the old airfield in a Mark 9 Spitfire a couple of years ago and gain an aerial impression of that important Section station which is now a local community country park. The pub used by RAF personnel over the decades, ‘The Good Intent’, is just walking distance from both sites. Thanks for all the fab work you do with this channel 👏

Dilip, I work at sea and was involved with North Sea dredgers in the 1990's. When a new and previously un-dredged area of sea bed was opened up for bidding the successful dredging company had exclusive rights to that new dredging ground and the items brought up would have blown an aviation archaeologists mind. I distinctly remember identifying a complete JU88 rear cockpit canopy but considering I was at work and had neither the time the authority or the wherewithal to record details the items were all dumped in scrap skips ashore in Holland. Shocking really!

Even after decades of reading and studying I still get annoyed at Leigh Mallory's Trenchardian policy of 'leaning into the enemy' in 1941 thus squandering hundreds of good men and machines for no purpose whatsoever when the remainder of the RAF were fighting desperate one sided battles in inferior aircraft in the middle and far east! It will always stick in my craw!

Can’t wait for the book. Especially now I know it has unpublished first hand accounts!

Hey Dilip and Andy my very pleasant sunday history thank you gents

Excellent, thanks for posting, great subject

Thank you Andy and Dilip for bringing the stories of these men to life.

TY 🙏🙏

You know how to attract my attention :D Currently playing the Defiant in my computer game - IL2 Cliffs of Dover, 141 Sqn disaster. Yes, Syncing pilot and gunner ,so important, but takes time. Cannot wait for the new book.

An iconic picture. I have a wonderful original picture (Ive seen it reproduced occasionally) that is a colection of 19 and 616 Sqn with Brian, George 'Grumpy' Unwin, Francis Brinsden, 'Flash' the Alsatian, 'Rangy' the Spaniel, Jimmy' Jennings, Colin MacFie (616), Howard Burton (CO 616) and Pilot Officer Philip Leckrone (616 ). Brian does not look as fatigued in the picture so perhaps not a Stanley Devon picture.

It was reading Wing Leader that got me into researching 616 squadron, and ultimately into meeting squadron members and becoming part of the squadron association.

I wondered if Kotare models had any connection to the now defunct Wingnut Wings, and was pleased to see several staff have that background. That in itself should be an endorsement of the quality of Kotare kits.

Nice to hear Billy Burton get a mention. He tends not to get mentioned often, and I'm only aware of a couple of photos of him.

Interesting conversation and discussion.

Great video, and maybe this will be resolved, as you say conversation is key, and fingers crossed, Eric Williams will be laid to rest properly

I live literally 4 miles as the crow flies from Stapleford aerodrome as it's called now. There are always light aircraft and helicopters flying around to and from Stapleford. I thought it was only an emergency landing field, not an operational station. So this is news to me I'm glad to say even at 70 years old you can learn things!

My wife's Great Uncle is also one of the 'Missing Few'. Flight Lieutenant Marcus Kramer DFC RAFVR. He went down in a Tiger Moth with Squadron Leader William Methven 43349 RAF on the 21st May 1941. They were seen to crash into the River Severn near Chepstow. Marcus' tunic was recovered later. Squadron Leader Methven's body was recovered a couple of months later and he is buried in a cemetery in Newquay. I have often wondered if Marcus' body was also recovered, but interred as an 'Unknown'. Unfortunately, after the aircraft was reported lost, another airman lost his life while searching for survivors, I believe flying a Lysander, he crashed into high ground.

Great conversation, really interesting many thanks for posting, great work

Fantastic. Just finished Andy Saunders book ‘Finding the Few’ and this was the case that stuck out to me. Hopefully it can finally be resolved. As you say, communication is key and it looks like there’s a very reasonable man at the official end.

The Timber Yard & Saw Mill site at the end of Albion Road was completely redeveloped into houses & multi storey flats in around 2007-8. Apart from the new curved gardens fronting the main road, it's difficult to see where it'd be easy to dig/search now sadly.

Very interesting conversation. Thank you

Good video.

Morning Dilip and Clive,so glad tomhave these videos thanks again

Wonder video such brave men

The Defiant missed its vocation as a single seat fighter with forward armament. Boulton Paul produced a prototype single seat only version the P94 but lack of test pilots prevented further development. It would have a superb Naval carrier fighter if development had continued.

Really enjoy the videos. Great work. Thank you.

I'm sitting on the fence at the moment having just watched this video. On one hand my emotions are that if there are r3mains then they should be recovered and even if they are not properly identified (presumably they at least may be identified as air crew or membership of some other military grouping) then they should at least get a proper military funeral. On the other hand the premise, "If we look for one, we look for them all" is in many circumstances probably the correct thing to do. If it's say about finding more of the very many missing from the Somme after all these 108 years. If however there is a definite chance of finding the buried wreckage in which air crew are not accounted for and there is a likelihood that human remains could still be present, then I think there must at least be an attempt to find the wreckage ( which is very much secondary to my mind) and to try to find any remains and give them the honour due to them.

Fascinating and illuminating discussion. Very refreshing to hear Clive's views and positive attitude.

Thank you so very much indeed for placing this amazing story on this channel would love to buy the books please. Lord Harrison

Glad I found this channel, I have read everything I can lay my hands on about the RAF during the war as well as the Navy and the army. Love this content because it has given me a new perspective to study as well as being hugely important. Great work!

At the end of the day - the wishes of the relatives of deceased crew members should be paramount - either for or against excavation - and anyone wishing to excavate a crash site should have to adhere to this too. However, time and again this factor has been ignored by the MOD - and this is still the case 😞

PoMRA does not actually protect Human Remains at all from a legal perspective - The MOD have no actual legal rights over human remains - they DO NOT own them. The Act only covers where there are "significant" identifiable remains of an aircraft or ship and therefore any related human remains they might contain by default only.

Very interesting video and discussion thank you for posting great work

Thank you, that was interesting🙏🙏. Whilst I can respect the Government/RAF's overall policy of respecting all Allied dead where they lie (even if it also seems a parsimonious way of saying, 'what's the cheapest way out of doing anything'), it does seem to be contradicted that; a) If some other party gets involved (businesses, Government infrastructure projects etc), & does all the major work, then they'll come in at the end. b) a family wishes for excavation, for a known site but if the Government/RAF still said 'no'. In other countries, where there may not be any evidence of where the fallen lie, that's different from where there is a known crash site on home soil. Your guest mentioned about not giving special status to Battle of Britain pilots, but that's the point, those who died during training/missions before, during & after the Battle of Britain, should also be recovered. If they were failed at the time (for various reasons), if their location on land is known, the politicians who sent them off to war, still owe them today a proper burial (in my opinion). There's the Luftwaffe bomber crew from the Battle of Britain who haven't been recovered. If the Germans are going back to Russia for thousands, they would probably want to know about these men to. We have a lot more specialised excavation equipment now, which should make a lot of digs possible. Perhaps I'm just too cynical & think it's more about money & red tape. If successive Governments hadn't squandered £ Billions on defence contracts that went nowhere (eg Nimrod AWACS), then those who paid the ultimate price, along with their families, might get a better result.

Very interesting. Thank you both. There's another point surely... It is virtually impossible to recover all the human remains from a crash site and therefore isn't better to leave the victim, intact as it were, in situ ...?

Just finished the model it's fantastic Just about to paint the figure of Brian for a small diorama

Fascinating and illuminating conversation. Thank you

It'd very very interesting to see a video about the wartime careers of pilots who were famous - or at least well-known, for their civil flying/racing/record-setting exploits in the 1930's. Some had been purely civil pilots - but some had been either regular RAF pilots before - or reservists. Some are easy - Alex Henshaw, Jim & Amy Mollison, Arthur Clouston etc. There must be many many others.... Well worth a dig & dive I think.

That's great, a book i will be getting