The Missing Few : Episode 10

[@prv808]

Fascinating and illuminating discussion. Very refreshing to hear Clive's views and positive attitude.

[@samrodian919]

I'm sitting on the fence at the moment having just watched this video. On one hand my emotions are that if there are r3mains then they should be recovered and even if they are not properly identified (presumably they at least may be identified as air crew or membership of some other military grouping) then they should at least get a proper military funeral. On the other hand the premise, "If we look for one, we look for them all" is in many circumstances probably the correct thing to do. If it's say about finding more of the very many missing from the Somme after all these 108 years. If however there is a definite chance of finding the buried wreckage in which air crew are not accounted for and there is a likelihood that human remains could still be present, then I think there must at least be an attempt to find the wreckage ( which is very much secondary to my mind) and to try to find any remains and give them the honour due to them.

[@battleofbritain_DilipSarkar]

@@samrodian919 indeed, an emotive and complex issue, for sure.

[@TheVigilant109]

Fascinating and illuminating conversation. Thank you

[@eric-wb7gj]

Thank you, that was interesting🙏🙏. Whilst I can respect the Government/RAF's overall policy of respecting all Allied dead where they lie (even if it also seems a parsimonious way of saying, 'what's the cheapest way out of doing anything'), it does seem to be contradicted that; a) If some other party gets involved (businesses, Government infrastructure projects etc), & does all the major work, then they'll come in at the end. b) a family wishes for excavation, for a known site but if the Government/RAF still said 'no'. In other countries, where there may not be any evidence of where the fallen lie, that's different from where there is a known crash site on home soil. Your guest mentioned about not giving special status to Battle of Britain pilots, but that's the point, those who died during training/missions before, during & after the Battle of Britain, should also be recovered. If they were failed at the time (for various reasons), if their location on land is known, the politicians who sent them off to war, still owe them today a proper burial (in my opinion). There's the Luftwaffe bomber crew from the Battle of Britain who haven't been recovered. If the Germans are going back to Russia for thousands, they would probably want to know about these men to. We have a lot more specialised excavation equipment now, which should make a lot of digs possible. Perhaps I'm just too cynical & think it's more about money & red tape. If successive Governments hadn't squandered £ Billions on defence contracts that went nowhere (eg Nimrod AWACS), then those who paid the ultimate price, along with their families, might get a better result.

[@battleofbritain_DilipSarkar]

Matter of fact, I agree.

[@patmckeane6588]

Always have felt its money,But also i suppose another problem would be ordnance ,but they all deserve recovery if humanly possible

[@nickwotherspoon01]

At the end of the day - the wishes of the relatives of deceased crew members should be paramount - either for or against excavation - and anyone wishing to excavate a crash site should have to adhere to this too. However, time and again this factor has been ignored by the MOD - and this is still the case 😞

[@battleofbritain_DilipSarkar]

@@nickwotherspoon01 and the reasons why Clive has explained.

[@battleofbritain_DilipSarkar]

@@nickwotherspoon01 I don’t disagree on an emotional level, but the group captain has explained the rationale behind the policy, dating back to 1917. So as our conversation progressed, it was clear that things are just not that simple. Much as we would like it to be.

[@neilconlon1298]

Very interesting video and discussion thank you for posting great work

[@quintintudor-evans763]

Very interesting. Thank you both. There's another point surely... It is virtually impossible to recover all the human remains from a crash site and therefore isn't better to leave the victim, intact as it were, in situ ...?

[@battleofbritain_DilipSarkar]

Certainly another valid viewpoint, for which many thanks.

[@philwarham3044]

I think if the crash site is to be left as the final resting place, then it should be marked and respected as a grave properly with a headstone (or headstones in the case of multiple casualties) etc.

[@battleofbritain_DilipSarkar]

@@philwarham3044 absolutely agree, because otherwise, over time, these sites will be lost to living memory and the record.

[@nickwotherspoon01]

PoMRA does not actually protect Human Remains at all from a legal perspective - The MOD have no actual legal rights over human remains - they DO NOT own them. The Act only covers where there are "significant" identifiable remains of an aircraft or ship and therefore any related human remains they might contain by default only.

[@battleofbritain_DilipSarkar]

@@nickwotherspoon01 a judicial review is required, but owing to cost will never happen. So we have to work with what we’ve got. Unfortunately some of us are unable to reflect the necessary skills required…