Another explanation is that power level measurements are chaotic. X times stronger might not mean being able to lift X times the previous amount of weight.

We are assuming kaioken x20 is a power level multiplier of 20x. We don't actually have evidence of this. While the multiplier was equal during the saiyan saga the same argument about the single data point applies to kaioken as well.

“Is he stupid?” He thought trunks was able to kill Frieza because of his sword, yes, and to make it worse Trunks finished off Frieza with an energy wave, so he obviously could’ve done it without his sword. KING COLD, HAS NEGATIVE BATTLE IQ.

I’d love to see a color corrected planet arelea episode.

A super saiyan’s multiplicative power over their own base form relates positively to how much Vegeta is gassing super saiyans. Take for example: The Namek arc Super saiyan seems to be at its strongest here, and totally dominates Frieza, likewise, whenever Vegeta believes either he or Goku had become a super saiyan, he speaks of them as if they were invincible. Android arc: Vegeta having become super for the first time speaks of super saiyan as a legendary form, that makes him unbeatable, as such, the form still appears very powerful. Buu arc: Vegeta starts to see super saiyans as par for the course, considering both he and Goku’s youngest sons can transform into one, thus, Vegeta stops gassing super saiyan, and the form seems weaker by proxy, leading to the introduction of further power-up’s, like super saiyan 3, fusion, and the Ultimate form.

People put WAY too much stock in what the guidebooks say. I know Toriyama stated in an interview that they knew more than him or something along those lines, but without being able to read his body language it's impossible to tell if he was being sarcastic, joking, or being completely serious. People also put too much stock in what the characters say. Does it not occur to them that a character could be wrong or just talking shit? Always always always make your judgment based on the actions you see, and that'll undoubtedly be more in line with what Toriyama wanted you to think as he was writing.

One thing that's often overlooked is that Goku, when he became a Super Saiyan on Namek, was pissed off at the same time. We see that both Gohan, Trunks, Vegeta and Broly get what's often referred to as a "rage boost" when angry. If the other Saiyans get rage boosts, when who's to say Goku doesn't get a rage boost in addition to the Super Saiyan multiplier, and that these two multipliers together add up to 50x? Super Saiyan never feels anywhere near as powerful after the Namek saga.

he looks like a pair of runners ive seen being sold.

Logic in my powerscaling community???😮

I thought the second goku recovered from the machine he was using 10x kaioken. like how the other z fighters were like "wow he should be using the kaioken" and then king kai says "but hes already using the kaioken!" boom. and then goku turns the kaioken up to 20x (so basically a 2x multiplier from before.) When he turns super saiyan it's a 50x multiplier, but compared to his kaioken self it's only 5x. Or 2.5x compared to 20x kaioken. And I think that makes sense, since. 2.5x is a lot.

The answer is simple, he was weak, and he wasn't written to last any longer than he did. He was a plot device to revive Frieza, who was a plot device to show how strong Trunks was, who was then there to show the strength of the new arc antagonists. They hyped up 2 power levels arriving to earth, because how lame would be sound if they said, "Whoa you feel that, it's Frieza and some other not as strong power with him." 1 Frieza level threat doesn't cut it at that point in the story, he's already been defeated like minutes prior. So having "2 Frieza level" threats builds up more suspense, but sadly we got a tell don't show situation that happened. Assuming a warriors weapon is the source of their strength is the weakest, most non-warrior logic. He was simply an Overlord, because he was an elephant among insects. Like an elephant. Big, and strong, but no knowledge, technique, or skill. He didn't have any transformations, because he was written to have any. But who knows, maybe some DB heroes will do some random shit like that.

I respect attention to detail as dbz went on it got worse in that regard to say nothing of GT and Super who many ways don't even try

Be more basic with the super hate loll

I believe Bulma created the exact replica of the Saiyan armor. She said it herself, she tried her best to copy the exact design of Vegeta armor as possible! Keep in mind though, she was on namek, she saw just about almost all of Frieza army. The soldiers were wearing just about all the different versions of the design of that armors! Which is her going off of what she saw on namek as well as in Vegeta saiyan armor! 📝🎁💯

It would make sense if it was something y= mx +c so like 3x your base power plus 141 million, or better yet they shouldn’t had made Frieza so crazy strong. There’s just no mathematical consistency.

Freeza and Super Saiyan broke the power scaling of the entire series

This is my biggest problem with Dragonball there are way too many characters that DO NOTHING but look like they could beat everybody Super just went stupid with it

I always thought that Nappa went SSJ2 against the Z-Fighters due to Piccolo having a 50 times boost against him.

Toriyama wasn’t very good at lore consistency and was known to be forgetful. He created a lot of inconsistencies and irrelevant plot lines because of this and focused more on aesthetics design choices instead of practical ones. For the plot to be fully moved on from Frieza and no longer be a threat, killing him off and his father whom was very briefly mentioned on Namek was the easiest way to do so. More than likely King Cold was never planned to have an appearance nor ever to be a long term character so the effort on his design wasn’t important. He more than likely decided to use the stereotypical father archetype of being larger and more intimidating and to save time implemented a recycling of the 2nd form with a color swap as it was both large and intimidating. There’s really nothing more deeper to this than that.

Ignoring the debate here, holy shit those “civilians Babidi killed” are brutal. I know the manga is a lot less reserved than the anime but that woman is literally just a torso

The fact that Cpmments are becoming 5 minute videos on KZbin is realiegh pissternizing me offige.

My thinking is if he could he would lmao simple as that. It's plausible he has other forms but I think the multiple forms things is unique to Frieza. Cooler as cool as he is isn't canon. Frost is "alternate" Frieza so that's why he can. If Frieza is stronger than Cold (regardless of whether he was at full power when Trunks killed him) it doesn't make sense for Cold to not use a stronger form if he could to increase his odds of success. We'll never know for sure since Toriyama didn't say so I go with Occam's Razor.

RANK YOUR FAVORITE TV SHOWS

Toriyama is not the best writer, his methodology of making a cool nonsense and put it on your future-self back to make it logical side effects is showing up.

It makes your ki 50x more powerful. Ki is what they're using to make their bodies superhuman. Just fighting the same you were as before will yield a 50x multiplier but if you want to keep it up longer (as it drains your stamina to do) you'd want to be acclimated to the form and use less ki than normal. Against frieza, he's not concerned with endurance so he gets the full 50x but training for cell makes sense to use way less ki because they're going for keeping SS up the whole cell games.

Teen Gohans ss2 was basically his legendary super sayain form. Every time he used ss2 afterwards he was a different form, drastically weaker. Gohans dumbest form name is beast, and that form (super mystic/super ultimate) is him using his own version of legendary super sayain WHILE using the "mystic" old kai spell form that gave him a unique kai ki. Gohan didnt use ss2 a lot. You can tell because when he uses ss2, he has 1 bang and lightening around him. His legendary super sayain form was called ss2 but it wasn't so simple. He had drastically longer, very spikey hair, tons of lightening.

Cold idea of last form looks like Giovani from Pokemon XD

Saw a meme comp, one of the clips showed Goku putting on the Bulma armor. made me think about how Vegeta is just low-key wearing Frieza force armor. started digging into the topic, found this video and a Gamespot post "Why does Vegeta still wear his slave armor." Turns out, the outfit that Cabba from universe 6 wears is actually universe 7 Saiyan armor pre-frieza force integration. pretty cool rabbit hole i went down today. Vegeta sure be yapping a lot about Sayian pride while wearing that (at the very least inspired) Frieza force armor.

I agree. King Cold thought Trunks' victory came from the sword and was so convinced of this that he was sure he'd beat him the moment he got it into his hands.

I agree, it's kind of a mess. But my opinion is that he was SSJ during both fights. Yes, he was able to turn SSJ2 during the tournament, but that was when there was very little pressure on him and he was in a controlled environment. He just kind of turned SSJ2 and stood there. But doing it at a time of pressure and having to actually use it in a fight might be too much for him. We know SSJ forms take more stamina to maintain, it may just be that Gohan was so out of shape that he had trouble using SSJ2 during an actual, full on, no holds barred fight. That's my headcanon, anyway.

The real answer, of course is: Toriyama doesn't math.

I love the constant mystery. It is always possible that there is more to know.

Why don't you link your sources? I've been trying to find that Toriyama 10 fold quote all over

Toriyama changed Gohan’s super saiyan design during the tournament. In the manga lighting is always consistent when it comes to super saiyan 2.

This isn’t on topic, but you’re very underrated man.

Its really quite simple. Freza ark was done this was used to show how much of a threat the androids were

For some reason I thought it would be 30x

makes sense

Why do you even assume he's got other forms?

I don't think he can transform. It's said from somewhere I forgot that king cold was a mutant but frieza was so mutated that he needed 4 forms and his 2nd form is to honour his dad. Maybe king cold has transformations but not as much as frieza

You're are coping. Coping and seething. You just can't accept what you're seeing.

4:48 lmao real asf

if anything this just proves everything is inconsistent and depends entirely on what the writer is feeling like at the time. which is FINE... well, at least, it CAN BE. in some instances it just feels like really sloppy writing, but in others it can genuinely work just fine for the story

But Toyotaro neither did good he made worst the Bardock story with the Granola arc plus he never fusion of the Bardock special because the Squad of Bardock never appeared with him in the manga and neither Dragon Ball Broly movie.

The power scaling in Naruto is so garbage you can tell it just got lucky it was popular

I just had to click on this video, for your name alone. I can tell by your name that you were a fellow Tobito conspirist back in the day. One like for you.

Toriyama says he forgot Super Saiyan 2 but I call BS and think he was joking. The WHOLE majin Buu arc has 2 and 3 at play in the plot itself. Goku and Vegeta going 2. Goku stalling time with 3, Gotenks going 3, Goku telling Vegeta he didnt go 3 on purpose... so how in the world would he forget 2 if SSJ 2 and 3 are so heavily integrated into the plot? Dunno.

1

I thinks that Saiyans became stronger in base after achieving ssj and this form starts do decrease it value

Its because Super Saiyan was once the super legendary transformation, then they started handing it out like candy, so the writing also suffered with characters not showing feats of a 50x multiplier 😅