this whole video sounds like an angry redditor

I agree, but I think focusing on definitions isn’t a good argument. Definitions are descriptive, not prescriptive, they change as time goes on and have multiple meanings. Its all based on utility, there is (unfortunately) more utility in calling a game a smash like than a platform fighter because more people are going to understand what you mean with the former over the latter

Pre-video opinion as requested: I think a Smash clone is a game that is made to appeal to people who like Smash Bros by providing a similar experience. This usually involves multiple of the following: 1. Increasing damage that makes you get launched further 2. Loss of the game buy getting sent off the screen 3. A directional input system Note: Simply being a fighting game with platforms does not necessarily constitute a Smash clone.

I'll stop calling them smash clones the day they actually do something unique with the formula, nick brawl 2 gets close to doing that with the gauges but still very smash like. Besides, we say rogue like and metroidvania, why are people so stingy with calling them smash likes/clones?

I think you’re just upset at the term “smash clone” because you feel it gives the genre a bad rep. That’s a fine opinion to have, but I feel like there’s a better way to express that than this. I know you want Rivals 2 and the platform fighter genre as a whole to be successful, but I don’t see how calling content creators “greedy assholes” for using terminology you don’t like and blaming them for the state of the genre is going to do that.

Yeah, that’s the internet, have you ever seen a unanimous consensus online?

Smash clone = 2D platform fighter-party game that seeks to “unite” all characters under a certain brand, IP, or network. I’d also say the percentage health gauge is pretty synonymous with smash too

"Smash clone" is a platform fighting game that borrows heavily enough from the smash bros series to be considered highly derivative to the point of not contributing to the genre(or isna fangame made to celebrate the franchise)

You're right, there is no accepted definition for a smash clone. And yes, there is a better term for the genre in "platform fighter. Smash clone is poorly defined and it's still used anyway. I get that its 'the same' as calling every shooter "call of duty" or ever football video game "madden" I don't think there's anything wrong with that, though. There are several categories of things throughout history that were at one point referred to by the name of the most popular thing from that category. A good example of this being the word "dog" which comes from the Old English word "dogca" which is actually just the Old english word for Mastiff. Eventually, Old English speakers decided to call everything that reminded them of a dogca a "dog" in the same way that modern english speakers call everything that reminds them of smash bros a "smash clone". You don't get mad at someone every time they call a domesticated canine a "dog" and you shouldn't get mad at someone when they call every plat fighter a "smash clone". Respectfully, this video is a very poorly constructed linguistics appeal. You can't perscribe language to people, you have to accept how people use words, even if there is no accepted universal definition of the words they're using. Why? because there are countless words that wouldn't exist in the english language if we used this rule. Mathemeticians have not been able to agree on what a "set" is even 100 years after the debate began, but the word "set" was still instrumental to advancing mathematics and even inventing the first computer. We also don't even have a universal definition for "infinity", but I can gaurantee you its a useful word that has the right to exist. Smash bros is the best selling fighting game of all time. The sales of every other platform fighter combined might not even add up. You have to admit that when a game overshadows its genre that much, it's going to become the frame of reference for everything in that genre. People are going to keep calling multiversus, brawlhalla, rivals, NASB, RR, etc. "smash clones" wether you like it or not, so I would recommend just not letting it bother you.

Holy yap sesh. If a game has the same features and mechanics as another game, it is the originals clone. xDefiant is a COD clone.

it’s an archaic term for platform fighter, duh

"people can't have different definitions of a word and still have that word have meaning" Oh boy, linguists would have a field day with this video

Titanfall 2 is my favorite Quake clone

This is such a stupid argument. I'm sure if falls into some sort of falacy but I'm not a philosopher, so who knows. "Everyone has different criteria for what a good movie is, so good movies don't exist" "each religion disagrees about who god is, so god can't exist" "none of us in the comments know what your name is, so you dont have a name" Even if only one of those examples made sense, do you see how we CANNOT think about things like that?? Everyone has a different definition of what a smash clone is so a smash clone cant exist? Wtf are you talking about? The ignorance of some does not mean that what they are ignorant of doesn't exist. This is such a wild and brain dead take. Like, i agree that smash clone is probably overused, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, that's just not how anything works

Yeah i agree with you. I'm waiting looking to the day people actually recognize platform fighters as its own genre of fighting games instead of just smash clones

I think specifically with the Coney example with rivals 2, he’s baiting casuals in and then exposing them to a cool game. I think you’re getting too hung up on language. I’m a huge platform fighter fan, but I don’t think rivals 2 is going to be negatively impacted because of the term smash clone.

Smash clones are platform fighters

Smash clone is reductive and quite outdated term to be honest. We don't call every 2d fighting game a 'Heavyweight Champ (1976)' clone because they're part of a genre. When the souls games were less popular and lords of the fallen came out it was called a dark-souls clone and critisized for it. Since then many similar games have come out and they aren't called 'clones' they're part of the 'soulslike' genre.

I agree with this. No one calls Tekken a Virtua Fighter clone. Or guilty gear a street fighter clone.

I kind of disagree on the Coney and TheMacroShow comparison, I don't see how someone making up a character list for a hypothetical game would introduce more people to platform fighters than a tierlist video that actually discusses different platform fighters.

What's the stick figure game at 0:35

wait what is there a way to play combo devils?

A super respect you, man. I do think the video is bit much a bit, just angry ranting, but i agree it's time to move on it's time to grow up it's time to use the term platform fighter back in the day there was street fighter clones then there was fighting games there was doom clones then there was fps there was smash clones but they were always platform fighters its time conetent creators grew up and used that term used platform fighter so it can grow

Clicked the video and stopped at 2 minutes, you are straight-up annoying bro, you had 1000 ways to passing the same message but chose the most pretentious one

Before continuing to see your point, I'll put down MY definition of a Smash Clone below... Thanks for reading 😁😁😁😁 I ALSO don't think "Smash Clones" are a real thing. I'm glad to find out I'm not alone.

You should read Foucault. Your actions against what you dislike are not very effective. You’re just gonna get weird looks and a sore throat. Philosophize this has a 3 video podcast on him. Personally I think a recounting of the history and analysis of platform fighters would have done a lot more to convince me to not use the term than yelling

The term "Smash Clone/Killer" exists in the same notion as "Overwatch Clone/Killer", some people simply don't want their favorite game (or their severe addiction) to get any competition. These kind of people don't understand the difference between a genre and a bootleg knockoff. Other previous genres left behind that negativity very quickly, and yet for these 2, nobody wants to let it go. And then they complain that "there aren't any games to play". Smash and Overwatch aren't even the originators of their genres. The Outfoxies was the first platform fighter. TF2 existed before Overwatch, and even the "certified" OW clone (Paladins) was in development years before OW was even revealed. The thing is, Smash/OW players either hate everything that's not their game, or are fully indifferent. I've seen many posts of people recommending their friends (who play said games) other titles within the genre, only to be met with the most arbitrary reasons on why they don't want to try. All we can really do is wait for the one game that will shut everyone up

The fact that this video has little views goes to show that they don't care

And this is why you should always do your research BEFORE jumping on a bandwagon! Like seriously its like I always say: the people who say "smash clone" have zero clue on what even the word "clone" even means!

Finally someone is saying that not every platform fighters or any fighting games should be with unga Bunga braindead hitting someone with a plus on everything combo starting hay makers

I mean bro is right, the few people in the comments that actually decided to make a definition of a “smash” clone couldn’t even agree. Mortal Kombat was considered a copy cat of street fighter until people started to understand that there was fundamental differences between the two. Now the two exist as two giant franchises with legacies for years on end. They both exist in the same genre just like other platform fighters and smash.

The term is actually Smash Echo.

You said a lot but I'm still wondering what you're talking about

Bro is too stuck thinking smash clone is an insult when its rlly not. Its like when people say souls-like. They dont mean that its worse than dark souls just that it plays similar to dark souls. Super smash brother is the first platform fighter serie and most platform fighter might never have existed without it. Its not rlly an insult smash is the just the most recongnizable entery. People do the same with Metroidvenia or rogue-like.

Honestly i think this video is kinda redundant, i think 99% of people use platform fighter and smash clone interchangeably. People did this with other genres, for example fps being called doom clones in the past. Should we gatekeep the term metroidvania because other games in the genre arent litteraly metroid or castlevania? You could have just commented on that KZbinrs video and saved everyone 18 minutes of their life

Bro the intro is so long and says a whole lot of nothing. I get the style and I want to like it, but it’s not it mate. Good luck with future vids, I hope you improve and keep going.

Calling other platform fighters smash clones is like calling Fatal Fury a Street Fighter clone.

Imo smash clones are games that market themselves and move as if they are a new competitive plat fighter for smash players. Rivals 1 was built off this. And in R2 they changed the mechanics to make it more like smash. It is a smash clone by design. Not saying its bad by any means. Just saying its not all that unique.

Oh my god stop talking about definitions and start talking about game design

The board breaker argument feels like a reach I mean "old" yugioh had Black Hole, Raigeki and the likes. And without a negate it's the same result, just a few turns later Doesn't matter what card game. It's not fun if only one side gets to play. That's why most card games got their versions of board breakers

It’s called platform fighters, what are you on about people

Im going to have to stop you right here. You can't say X doesn't exist because you used a different word to describe the same things. If my vocabulary is consistent and it gets the point across, then it exists.

Ok, smash clone is any game after Smash that is 2d platform fighting games that uses percentages and knock back to get kills

Smash clone is Super Smash Bros. Crusade and Smash Flash. They literally have "Super Smash Bros." in the name. :)

I never use the term, but to me a Smash Clone would have to be a platform fighter that uses the percent damage system as its core "health" mechanic and every character has a moveset exactly like a smash character would (directional attacks, grounded tilt/smash attacks, shield & grab.) If you can put a character from a "Smash Clone" inside of a Smash Bros game without needing to change ANY mechanic, then I'd call it a clone.

Man you're taking this too seriously. Platform fighter is the better term but it is less known. And have you seen PFs in the past years, we are scraping. So any new advertisement is good. Until there a genuine good Smash Alternative then people will stop using smash clone, or smash killer. And I think Rivals 2 is on track to hit 1M+ players. Until a good fully fledged game comes out, this term will never go away. Until Smash becomes like SF, MK, Fatal Fury, GG, this term is here to stay whether you say it or not. In the 90s Fatal fury was SF clone. We just good devs and time. Patience young one. Our time will come.

Smash Clone is just like Street Fighter Clone. I would call Rivals 2 a Smash clone/like but not the first one since it lacks to many mechanics and plays too different from smash. I also prefer Rivals 2 a lot for being a smash clone not just a platform fighter that tries to do its own thing, It is way more fun from my experience with the demo.

IT'S TRUE! IT SUCKS! I'm sure there's a lot of fighting games that have been called street fighter 2 clones, as there were with doom clones before the term fps got invented. But that's the kicker, THEY WERE CALLED THAT BEFORE THEY HAD A REAL, REASONABLE NAME! It's sad to hold a sub-genre so close to the game that they take the most inspiration from, so close that it strangles them, when there's no reason to. Sure, comparison is one thing, but this language and kind of apathy towards especially the indie games is just... it's disappointing. It's putting something down for merely existing. No one calls Guilty Gear a Street Fighter clone or knock-off or even really acknowledges that they have anything to do with each other. Why does it have to be like this for people? I can understand if you're a diehard Nintendo fan and you really don't want to play the game without Mario and Fox and Link in it, but you wouldn't even be here in the first place. The voices that come out to denounce these games as clones and knockoffs are so gross. What a bogus way to treat your genre that you supposedly like so much.