The 3053 had an awesomely refined sound generated by its voice coil head actuator. They were fabulous drives that could take an RLL format out to 60 MB capacity.
@Mathmos2523 күн бұрын
i found an untested one on ebay for 28 euros ( free shipping ) it may be the next drive i'm buying ;)
@TheDiskMaster3 күн бұрын
@@Mathmos252 not the worst price for a 3650 I don't think
@Nikson29815 күн бұрын
i had a ~30MB Tulin TL340 in my first computer. It died of a pretty nasty head crash a while ago and I recycled it last week. RIP to a real one, slow and loud but still loved
@TheDiskMaster5 күн бұрын
@@Nikson2981 Ouch! Wish you hadn't scrapped it, the TL-340 is a drive I have desperately wanted to get a hold of for years, even broken! I would have absolutely loved to have had it, even just for parts. What a shame. Was there any appreciable difference between it and the TL-226 you see here, other than 20MB vs 30MB (4 vs 6 heads)?
@Nikson29815 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster sounded way different. i took a recording with my cellphone of it with the cover off before getting rid of it though. kind of a shame, totally would have sent it to you if i kept it
@TheDiskMaster4 күн бұрын
@@Nikson2981I see. Did you upload it anywhere? I'd love to see! Maybe send it in the Discord?
@ChronicKPOP3 күн бұрын
old computers and hardware should never be recycled but instead sold on the open market
@TheDiskMaster3 күн бұрын
@@ChronicKPOPGood luck getting most people to believe that.
@francoisfritz1985 күн бұрын
Mine still working fine actually
@TheDiskMaster5 күн бұрын
@@francoisfritz198 Yep, I have several of these drives and for the most part they all work. They're tough little suckers.
@HTMLEXP7 күн бұрын
ACT / Apricot Computers were assembled not far from Rodime in Scotland, and included the 3.5 inch 10 and 20 Mb hard drives in their XI models from 1984.
@TheDiskMaster7 күн бұрын
@@HTMLEXP I see, I did not know that. Interesting!
@VonAggelby8 күн бұрын
I learned way back when that giving a good beating to those drives would make them skip the HDMotion errors.
@TheDiskMaster7 күн бұрын
@@VonAggelby huh? What do you mean
@CaelThunderwing12 күн бұрын
that drive is not happy one bit. how long it took to detect parameters, to the HDMotion Errors. it's just begging for the sweet release of death.
@TheDiskMaster10 күн бұрын
@@CaelThunderwing IDESDI is not affected by the health of the drive, it relies on an odd set of heuristics based on information the controller provides about the current drive status. HDmotion is just picking up bad sectors.
@timradde43287 күн бұрын
Totally wrong. The drive is fine. Some bad blocks sure.
@TheDiskMaster7 күн бұрын
@@timradde4328This.
@maxtornogood12 күн бұрын
It was stuck for just over a minute after 3:48 trying to obtain the parameters. HDMotion doesn't paint a pretty picture either. Barely works well enough for a demo.
@TheDiskMaster10 күн бұрын
@@maxtornogood As I have previously mentioned, IDESDI is not affected at all by the health of a drive. It works purely by a set of unusual heuristics based on data the controller's status register can return. What it's watching for sure write faults and attempting to detect a recalibration. These drives take a long time to recalibrate regardless of whether or not they're working.
@timradde43287 күн бұрын
You're just wrong.
@TheDiskMaster7 күн бұрын
@@timradde4328I agree, but there's no need to be rude
@engineer35912 күн бұрын
spindle a bit loud to hear stepper moves, but atleast it sounds nice enough
@TheDiskMaster12 күн бұрын
It's just about the same as an early production ST-225. Sadly, these are pretty darn rare and I have to take what I can get with regards to spindles.
@engineer35912 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster you got pretty nice one :)
@TheDiskMaster10 күн бұрын
@@engineer359thanks
@engineer35910 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster you welcome:)
@TheDiskMaster9 күн бұрын
@@engineer359👍
@MyComputerStudios_12 күн бұрын
Never knew this existed! So, this is an ST-225 technically?
@leecremeans544612 күн бұрын
Yup. This is an ST-225 with one platter and two heads removed.
@TheDiskMaster12 күн бұрын
@@MyComputerStudios_ Yes, this is a single platter early model ST-225.
@TheDiskMaster12 күн бұрын
@@leecremeans5446 Yes, but they only exist for 84 and 85, I believe.
@ewhartiii16 күн бұрын
The poor bearings in that drive are screaming for some lubrication too
@TheDiskMaster16 күн бұрын
@@ewhartiii Unfortunately, there is no way to do this without destroying the spindle motor. It is completely sealed.
@joshua-pj3rd16 күн бұрын
That's so weird to me because I grew up in a little town in Oregon called LaPine
@TheDiskMaster16 күн бұрын
@@joshua-pj3rd haha I wonder if they're related to the company.
@joshua-pj3rd15 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster I was kind of wondering the same thing it would be a total trip if it was because the population is under 3k
@TheDiskMaster7 күн бұрын
@@joshua-pj3rdI kinda doubt it, I think LaPine was based in California, but I could be wrong
@joshua-pj3rd7 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster that would make more sense because LaPine Oregon is kind of just a little redneck Town / tourist trap is not much going on there
@TheDiskMaster6 күн бұрын
@@joshua-pj3rdMaybe someone in the company had family there. Who knows.
@BoraHorzaGobuchul16 күн бұрын
Thank you, nice asmr
@TheDiskMaster16 күн бұрын
@@BoraHorzaGobuchul no problem. Primarily here for the documentary efforts but to each their own!
@BoraHorzaGobuchul15 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster brings back the childhood. Never had this particular drive but my 330meg scsci drive made similar sounds ) Down the memory lane
@TheDiskMaster7 күн бұрын
@@BoraHorzaGobuchulInteresting, there were no drives >120MB that used stepping motors, so I'm not sure what that could have been.
@BoraHorzaGobuchul6 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster "all you hdds sounds the same to me", or maybe there was. In my memory, it sounded similarly. But that was a long time ago. Don't remember the name, only that it had a black front panel, and a big green LED indicator, that it was scsci and 330mb volume it thereabouts
@TheDiskMaster5 күн бұрын
@@BoraHorzaGobuchul Most drives with a front panel are black, and green LEDs were almost always an option. The design of that faceplate and the position of the light are what I would need to know to make an educated guess as to the model of drive. An easy example of not all drives sounding the same would be putting this Lapine next to any modern drive. They are audibly very different, that much is clear to anyone.
@wahidtrynaheghugh26017 күн бұрын
I recently fell into the similarly autistic rabbit hole of server fans, and my computer went from silent to REEEEEE. I can’t fall down another rabbit hole lmao.
@TheDiskMaster16 күн бұрын
@@wahidtrynaheghugh260 Says who? We always have room in the server and in the community for another enthusiast, even if you don't become a collector!
@bobjoe282719 күн бұрын
Lapine had an interesting relationship with Kyocera as they were contracted by Lapine to manufacture their hard drive designs and were later sued by Lapine for using their designs on their own drives without permission. Capacitors are starting to become a problem on a lot of vintage hard drives, however early 3.5" hard drives seem to be the most problematic (especially if they are of Japanese origin for some reason).
@TheDiskMaster18 күн бұрын
Indeed, I have noticed that both this and the Kyocera KC-20A drives which share it's chassis have begun to have serious capacitor issues. I had heard they were sued, yes. The case doesn't appear to have been formally closed until the 2000s when it was largely irrelevant anyways. Love that legal system.
@thegeforce662516 күн бұрын
Had no idea that Kyocera manufactured these drives.
@TheDiskMaster16 күн бұрын
@@thegeforce6625 Lapine designed the KC-20B as well, as the LT-2000. 80scompaqpc is lucky enough to have one!
@MyComputerStudios_19 күн бұрын
Why do most drives you test nowadays keep giving errors in the first program and HDmotion?
@TheDiskMaster19 күн бұрын
@@MyComputerStudios_ Because HDAT is a disk diagnostic program and is purposely looking for errors, and because HDMotion attempts to random read basically every sector on the drive. These drives are extremely rare and there is no reliable way for me to fix these errors, so if I want to demonstrate the drives, this is what I have to deal with.
@bobjoe282719 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster I'm sure you are aware of this but sometimes it is worth a check of the cables/contacts of these drives. I have a MiniScribe 3650 that showed a bad head 3 when testing (attempted LLF), however before opening it I tried cleaning the contacts on the PCB and the drive actually booted without error (original LLF must have been on an AT class controller).
@TheDiskMaster18 күн бұрын
@@bobjoe2827Sadly, if you watch the video closely, you will see that this is not the case. Errors on head 3 are consistent and only span cylinder 0 to 284. A poor connection would cause head 3 to never be legible, but this suggests an actual media error. This drive is very tired and came out of a warehouse.
@thegeforce662519 күн бұрын
3:42 is oddly musical to me haha
@TheDiskMaster19 күн бұрын
IDESDI really does make some strange sounds, doesn't it?
@thegeforce662516 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMasteryeah definitely.
@TheDiskMaster16 күн бұрын
@@thegeforce6625 It's trying to use some really simple heuristics based on data the controller hands back about the state of the drive in order to calculate it's geometry. It's a very interesting algorithm!
@thegeforce662519 күн бұрын
awesome sounding seektest
@TheDiskMaster19 күн бұрын
@@thegeforce6625 indeed! I wonder why Kyocera changed the firmware for the KC20A.
@thegeforce662522 күн бұрын
suprisingly quiet
@TheDiskMaster22 күн бұрын
It was meant to be a portable drive, after all
@bobjoe282726 күн бұрын
Mine is the same way (the top platter is hosed), but it works fine as a 10 Meg drive. One of these days I will get around to trying a platter swap on that drive.
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@bobjoe2827 Not sure which one has the damage here, I haven't opened it to look.
@bobjoe282725 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster It looked like it failed on head 3, so it likely is the top platter (hopefully so as it is the easiest to fix). When I opened my drive, it wasn't a head crash, it was corrosion on the platter (a round spot in line with the lid vent, probably due to moisture).
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@bobjoe2827Ouch, yeah, that'll do it. I haven't / probably won't open this drive, there's nothing I can do for it.
@matthewsvideos823526 күн бұрын
Glad I am not the only one having trouble with this model. I have two of these and I got one working, but the second one needs help. Outlasted by Kalok KL330 from about the same time.
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@matthewsvideos8235 It happens
@maxtornogood26 күн бұрын
Glad this 'worked' well enough for a demo but the head crash is very apparent!
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@maxtornogood at cylinder 0, yeah.
@aprilkolwey477926 күн бұрын
I've mentioned this elsewhere before, but I can't remember if you've seen it or not - for drives that are pretty much trashed like this one, if you change the byte at 0x3B60 in hdmotion from 0x42 to 0x47, it will issue seek commands instead of read commands. On a working drive it will tend to sound a bit faster than normal since you're not waiting on rotational latency, but on mostly-dead drives like this one you can usually get them to seek like that without giving a ton of errors and taking forever.
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@aprilkolwey4779 I have seen that, but that change would invalidate test results for all previous drives.
@aprilkolwey477925 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster Test of what? hdmotion doesn't report a score.
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@aprilkolwey4779If you time it with a stopwatch you get a time for the run, which is a good indicator of media health, rotational latency, and seek times. All important metrics I am documenting. You're getting 6 more minutes of sound anyways, statistics show that nobody watches more than about 2 minutes a time and I imagine the head crash sounds here will shorten that further. No reason to run the drive and possibly damage it by doing that.
@engineer35926 күн бұрын
i think this drive got head crash
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
Yes, there is damage around cylinder 0
@engineer35925 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster how headcrash happen?
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@engineer359The heads collided with the surface of the disk at some point. There's a large number of ways this could be caused.
@engineer35924 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster thats pain
@TheDiskMaster22 күн бұрын
@@engineer359 Something like that
@Kali_Krause26 күн бұрын
Ouch! I hear a head crash big time :(
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@Kali_Krause only at cylinder 0
@MyComputerStudios_26 күн бұрын
Head crash?
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@MyComputerStudios_ Seems to be
@thegeforce662529 күн бұрын
i wonder how well this drive would do if it was formatted with MFM encoding.
@TheDiskMaster28 күн бұрын
@@thegeforce6625 Probably exactly the same. There is no difference between a KL-320 and a KL-330 other than the certification done in the factory.
@Mathmos252Ай бұрын
morse code??? 2:39
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
No, that's the sound of the stepping motor actuating the head stack.
@Mathmos252Ай бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster i know lol Xd , i meant that It sounds like morse code😭😭😭
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@Mathmos252Not really, there aren't any gaps or patterns to it. It would just be gibberish if any of it was decodable at all.
@robertoprime110Ай бұрын
OMG HARD DRIVE HAS BEARINGS ARE WORN
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
Indeed, but unfortunately these are rather rare and so this is the only one I could get my hands on that works.
@Kali_KrauseАй бұрын
Those are definately some worn bearings
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
Unfortunately yeah. Sadly the RLL variant here is very hard to get a hold of.
@HEFORCE.KHD4090Ай бұрын
Do Not Skip This Bad Drives!
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
What do you mean?
@HEFORCE.KHD409027 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster For Example Arnol Doesn't Skip This Hdmotion But Why This Skip This
@TheDiskMaster25 күн бұрын
@@HEFORCE.KHD4090Because it's very slow and time consuming.
@BenM39435Ай бұрын
interesting video! I have two ST-412 drives. Both in working condition. But only one sounds fine, the other one is loud (sometimes and sometimes the sound changes and it becomes more quiet. With some weird kinda spring noises sometimes. That one was also stuck. this evening I was trying it for the first time. At first the drive didnt do anything, but after moving the motor it started working. it passed the diagnostics check from IBM without errors. I hope the sound will become better over time and isnt indicating anything bad 😅.
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@BenM39435 Unfortunately, the sound is not likely to go away. The bearings are either dry or damaged or both. It's not too uncommon for these drives to get noisy in their old age!
@engineer359Ай бұрын
yay, Kalok drive is here
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
Love these things
@engineer359Ай бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster Will more of them appear?
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@engineer359more Kaloks? In the future, yeah.
@engineer359Ай бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster nice, i will wait for that to see
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@engineer359They'll be lumped in with the rest of the IDE stuff when I get around to those
@thegeforce6625Ай бұрын
oh man those bearings are *worn*
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
Yep, it happens. Sadly, this is the only functional KL-330 I could get my hands on, due to their rarity.
@matthewsvideos8235Ай бұрын
This one seems to be a bit rougher than the one I have as a secondary in my XT computer.
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
Yeah you mentioned that the other day in the discord
@beanMosheenАй бұрын
Is that one of the ones with metal strips wrapped around the stepper shaft for the push-pull?
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@beanMosheen huh? No, this is the only swingarm drive I'm aware of which does NOT use a band positioner. This is rack and pinion.
@mima85Ай бұрын
Just some days ago I found this one for about 30 euros including shipping on eBay. For the same price the same seller has a Maxtor 7120AT. They were both in perfect functional condition (no bad sectors) and ahestetically they were in a very good state too, no major scratches, dings or corrosion on them. Knowing the insane prices these hard drives go nowadays on eBay I immediately snagged both of them, it was a no brainer really.
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@mima85 very nice, this one was $15 tested working from an industrial supplier I often buy my drives from
@mima85Ай бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster It's cool to see that there's still someone selling those things at reasonable prices.
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@mima85Indeed, it's lucky that I can still get them at all.
@Kali_KrauseАй бұрын
I like the chug chug chug chug it makes while it loaded Windows 95
@thefumigatorАй бұрын
Isn't that the floppy drive?
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@Kali_Krause When did you see Windows 95?
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@thefumigator the floppy drive is active throughout the video, but there's nothing Windows related here
@thefumigatorАй бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster most likely MS-DOS, at the beginning. It doesn't say windows 95 anywhere, but people who drove windows 95 surely drove the DOS console, and might remember seeing it more than once during windows 95 problematic lifetime... Making them confused. Just a theory. Moreover his description of the sound, makes me think of the floppy, doesn't it?
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@thefumigatorMS-DOS is running during the entire video. Why would Windows 95 be problematic? Yes, the floppy drive is active throughout the video as both the boot device and the primary storage where all my testing software resides.
@QuantumDriveEnjoyerQDEАй бұрын
I think it's 3050rpm drive rather than 3600rpm but I might be wrong.
@Kali_KrauseАй бұрын
It's listed as 3600 rpm
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@QuantumDriveEnjoyerQDE I don't know. Is there a way to tell for sure?
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@Kali_Krause everything I saw says 3600 yeah
@arnlolАй бұрын
TH99 lists it as 3048 rpm so does redhill and the value that speedsys says on mine is close to that. Even their early voice coil units also ran at a "strange" RPM
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@arnlolInteresting. Maybe I'll have to put some reflective tape on the spindle and point a tachometer at it someday.
@HEFORCE.KHD4090Ай бұрын
i Did Order An SCSI Drives To Work
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@HEFORCE.KHD4090 okay
@robertoprime110Ай бұрын
SOUNDS LIKE ST 251 AND ST 277R
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
Yep that's my thoughts too
@engineer359Ай бұрын
is drive okay? i feel like heads 2 and 4 feel bad
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
No this drive is probably junk
@engineer359Ай бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster atleast this drive works, so we can hear its cool sounds
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@engineer359works is an approximation at best lol
@bobjoe2827Ай бұрын
The Seagate ST-100 (stepper motor) drives seem to experience stiction in their ST-506/412 interface far more often than in their ATA/SCSI interface. I have always thought that this is the case due to their use on hard cards, which bakes them to death causing oil from the bearings to settle on the platters leading to stiction. If the heads are intact a head cleaning and platter swap would resolve it's stiction issues, however these drives are a massive pain to work on (mostly due to the size, but also the fact that you have to remove the stepper bands to unload the heads). Despite the difference in geometry a board swap between this drive and the far more common 157A works fine after a LLF (I believe Seagate uses the inner tracks to store drive firmware on the ST-157A that is not needed for the ST-157R).
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@bobjoe2827 interesting, I've not attempted to repair this drive in any capacity. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't but this is the only real testing I've done for it at all
@matthewsvideos8235Ай бұрын
This drive seems a lot more tired than my ST-157A.
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@matthewsvideos8235 Not sure, I haven't done any testing outside of this video
@arnlolАй бұрын
The seek test sure is different that the IDE and SCSI variants. Is head 2 dead/ripped off maybe?
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@arnlol yep sounds like a miniature ST-251 to me. I don't think it's ripped off but this drive has certainly seen better days.
@bigbluebananabreadАй бұрын
Very cool! Huge shame about the corrosion, it's quite the interesting unit.
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@bigbluebananabread agreed, I have a NOS one somewhere but I can't seem to find it. Doesn't help that my shelf collapsed. This drive was actually involved in a basement flood some years ago, I'm surprised it works as well as it does.
@engineer359Ай бұрын
ow, that HDAT test feels bad
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
This drive has water damage, it was involved in a basement flood. I'm surprised it works at all with the amount of sand I pulled out of the filter element.
@engineer359Ай бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster very lucky one, water mostly kills everything like that
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@engineer359indeed
@Teraforce88Ай бұрын
0:16 This drive has the coolest-sounding power-on seek test I've ever heard on a hard drive. Very science-fictiony.
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@Teraforce88 it's certainly an unusual one that's for sure
@Teraforce88Ай бұрын
The errors on HDMotion seem more like actual issues with the drive rather than controller timeout errors. After all, the tract-to-track times are still better (18ms) than on many Microscience drives (32ms), and your Microscience HH-725s don't struggle through HDMotion like this Miniscribe 3012 does. Does your particluar drive have other issues besides the (normal) ultra-slow seek times?
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@Teraforce88 No, this drive doesn't even hardly have any bad sectors to speak of. It's as perfect as a Miniscribe can be.
@thegeforce662518 күн бұрын
@@TheDiskMasterI’d think that the seek errors would be related to stepper motor problems or it’s control logic on the drives PCB, atleast seeks shorter than about 100ms.
@TheDiskMaster18 күн бұрын
@@thegeforce6625Unfortunately, no test I've ever performed has ever revealed an issue with the drive.
@bobjoe2827Ай бұрын
If this drive came from who I think it came from (a certain eBay seller as part of a lot of drives) it's worth noting that nearly all drives sold by them either work or are destroyed beyond repair unfortunately. It is still however a nice drive to have in one's possession.
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@bobjoe2827 Yes, I talked that guy into selling me a huge lot of his most interesting drives. I actually have an NOS version of this drive laying around somewhere but I can't find it.
@bobjoe2827Ай бұрын
@@TheDiskMaster I know what you mean about not being able to find things, I'm getting there with computers and drives (I have already been there for years with vacuum tube electronics). A couple of years ago I bought a lot of 10 Seagate ST-351A/X hard drives from this seller and was only able to save 3 of them (they were well packaged, but mostly broken beyond repair). I made out as I was able to save 6 working boards from the bad drives, but still 30% is a dismal result.
@TheDiskMasterАй бұрын
@@bobjoe2827ouch, yeah I bought untested drives from him just because they were highly unusual models. Microscience 7100 and stuff.