Are You BLINDED By NOSTALGIA? | State of the Arc Podcast

[@adthomp]

I actually think recently bias is is more of a issue, the “that’s the best game of movie I’ve ever seen” without looking at it more..

[@matthewgubbins8515]

No I'm not blinded by nostalgia, I'm consumed by it. Molded by it

[@JohnnySoCal]

Well said... Ocarina of Time shaped me to the person I am today.

[@derrickpanciera5644]

I didn’t see nostalgia til I was already a man and by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!

[@pauldavis7318]

​@@derrickpanciera5644You comment like a younger man!

[@alexakaa.charlesross8919]

I didn't know Nostalgia until I was a man.

[@makasete30]

Refined by it.

[@agroed]

Personally I see this argument most from younger gamers, especially those still in their teens, when they hear from older gamers that games are worse now, to which the response tends to be something along the lines of "you just don't know any better, you don't have the experience to know how great games used to be" etc. I'm 28 years old so I'm a bit of a fence-sitter at the moment when it comes to this argument. Not so old to be an old man yelling at a cloud but not so young that I haven't experienced at least 2 or 3 generations of games. Whether or not you think gaming used to be better, I don't think it's debatable that gaming is certainly a heck of a lot different compared to how it used to be. When young gamers hear this notion that new games are worse, they feel the need to defend their childhood and their memories against the perceived assault from the old guard and lash out in this way, and as usual, you have a reaction to a reaction to a reaction that gets out of control. For us older gamers I'd say, rather than complaining about the state of the industry, focus instead on simply encouraging the younger generation to try out some of these older games. Don't focus on better or worse, but show them the different types of experiences we had back then that you just can't get nowadays. To younger gamers I'd say, we're not trying to disparage you or the things you love, we're just very passionate about what we love, and want to share it with you, so please try to set aside what you've gotten used to with modern games, and really experience some of these older games in good faith. I'm sure you'll find new experiences that you'll fall in love with, even if it takes a little bit more effort and investment than you're used to.

[@ryandude3]

Well put!

[@patrickholleman9323]

Great episode, great topic. I have two thoughts on this topic. 1) I think that many of the people who accuse someone of having "nostalgia goggles" for a piece of media are suffering from what psychologists call a poor Theory of Mind. Theory of mind is something that individuals possess to tell them "Other people have thoughts, the same way that I do. But their thoughts are different from mine." There are many reasons why someone might not have a good theory of mind, including immaturity and neurodivergence/learning disabilities. People who have a poor theory of mind are often *quite shy* in real life. But on the internet, they're much more forward, because there are fewer social consequences at hand. Ergo, people with a poor theory of mind can show up and make these kinds of accusations much more often than, say, at church, band practice, or the softball league. 2) I'd like to pull a quote from my book on FFVII, about the MANY misunderstandings of its audience and message. "Some critics say that FF7 was originally popular because it appealed to an immature audience through immature themes. By tapping into the “teen angst” of its audience, it cemented its place in the audience’s memory in the same way that bad, old pop songs do. [...] Final Fantasy 7’s central theme is not about growing up. If anything, it’s the opposite: it’s about characters who are left behind with no meaningful identity after the world changes. [...] The original audience of FF7 interpreted-one might even say allegorized-the message of the game to be about themselves and their struggle to grow up. I would never deny an audience the right to see the high drama of a fictional narrative as a metaphor for their own lives. That is the very essence of catharsis. But FF7 is a game made by adults, and it reflects adult anxieties and concerns."

[@Y-two-K]

Two great points, Pat! I wasn’t aware you wrote a book on FF7, I’m gonna have to look into that!

[@patrickholleman9323]

@@Y-two-K Obviously any link would get crushed but it's called Reverse Design: Final Fantasy VII.

[@trollingisasport]

Indeed. It's sad to see how much people continually latch onto takes from 20 years ago and refuse to grow up.

[@Windraesa]

I always thought of this as solipsism, but theory of mind is more succinct, thanks .Definitely had this problem, probably (to an increasingly lesser extent) until my early 30's. But with effort, truly overcame it. Interestingly, I was always an extreme extravert, and am now more of an ambivert.

[@toolman9537]

I think your first point is a little one-sided. It would be too much to say that people are completely blinded by nostalgia goggles as to the reality of the quality of the media in question, but I also feel that there is a genuine sort of disinterest or dislike toward newer pieces of media (especially in older franchises) that is genuinely fueled by nostalgia. Especially in the space of FF7's Remake trilogy. I regularly find people and engage with people who raise issues with FF7 Remake, while they simultaneously misremember or misconstrue what happened in the original game. There's a sort of personal and cultural elitism around older properties that has become so excessive that it often now completely shadows the actual original media. I think I can safely say that there is a sizeable population of people, especially online, who apply a hypercritical lens to their analysis of remake media, while often giving a pass or softer take on originals. And I think you see this same effect applied across fandoms in areas like Star Wars, Resident Evil, Superhero franchises ect. People certainly do apply a glazing of nostalgia to their opinions about things they experienced in their formative years, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is important to recognize some of that bias and to honestly engage with both old and new with the same level of open-mindedness.

[@noviceartsinc]

this rant was so great I'll be blinded by nostalgia for it in a few years, mark my words

[@agroed]

Good faith is a topic that I've struggled a lot with recently, especially while trying to experience games in good faith and how I should approach games that I have either no prior experience with, a lot of prior experience with, or if I already have set beliefs or preconceptions about a game before going in, and what this internal debate has made me realize is that, very few people operate on this wavelength. Very few people are interested in finding new perspectives, appreciating the viewpoints of others, then using those experiences to come to a greater understanding of a topic, and this is especially true of people on the internet. I know it's very difficult because I still struggle with it, but it's important to try to figure out when you're talking to another good faith actor, or when you're just talking to a troll or an evangelist. In order to have a good faith discussion, it requires both parties to be good faith actors, otherwise you'll waste a whole lot of time talking to a brick wall. I find that, unless you know the person well, and you know that they care about truth above pushing a certain narrative, there's a good chance you're wasting your time, and looking back, I've wasted a whole lot of time by not considering the motives of who I'm talking to. What this and other conversations in a similar vein have taught me is that, if you come across someone who says you're blinded by nostalgia, there is no possible way they could be arguing in good faith, so if someone says you're blinded by nostalgia, just say they have novelty bias and move on with your life. 😜 I think you guys have done very well to cultivate an audience that is willing to have an actual dialogue, a real conversation, which is something that's very difficult to do in the online space, so thank you for that.

[@mellybeannn14]

Already dying at Casen’s snooty guy impression hahaha 😂 the new facial hair coming in adds to the persona. Taylor Swift said this great quote in an interview that I think is super relevant… “The worst kind of person is someone who makes you feel bad, dumb, or stupid for being excited about something.” Subjectivity, nostalgia, and emotional attachment shouldn’t be reasons that people disregard your opinion or your love for something!

[@dudemcguy1227]

It's funny to see that whenever they phrase the video title as a question, there are always a bunch of people who just want to give their answer in the comments section without actually watching/engaging with any of the discussion points brought up in the actual video they clicked on. I guess people just feel compelled to click on questions and give their takes, regardless of whatever it is being discussed.

[@K_Dog253]

Also, in media, the answer to a question is ALWAYS no.

[@turtlecantalkgaming128]

I'm only 12 minutes in, but this is such a great discussion, gentleman. love this dialogue and both of your views, ability to communicate them, and also tolerate/exist with each other in your differences. it translates so well to a podcast format and is very easy to listen too. for years you guys have had stellar content and deserve the support! thanks for this one, specifically. :)

[@CaptainNimrod94]

I watched Avatar: The Last Airbender a lot as a kid. When I became an adult, I was afraid to rewatch it because I was afraid it wouldn’t hold up as well as I had remembered. Boy was I wrong, it was actually better because the show tackles things with far more nuance than I was able to appreciate as a child. There’s so much symbolism and thought put into almost everything. The avatar cycle being in the same order as the seasons of the year. Sokka wearing wolf’s armor, while earlier he fell in love with a girl who turns into the moon. Zuko not being able to cry out of his burned eye until he has accepted who he truly is. There’s a lot of subtlety along with what is explicitly being shown in the show.

[@chrono23520]

I really relate to Casen with his story about arguing so hard about something just to argue and regretting it. I am haunted by similar experiences I’m not sure I’ve grown out of it I just love debate sometimes to my own and other peoples detriment.

[@henrytep8884]

Is an ego thing, that’s what it usually boils down to. The antidote usually requires epistemically humility and being able to navigate other people’s perspective. But that’s not a guarantee to resolve all of the tendencies nor is that realistic.

[@capn_capacitor]

The challenge with games of the past is that the context within which a game launched is lost over time. It’s very hard for someone coming back to a game years later to understand how it compared to the landscape at the time. When I think of my experience with a game, it’s at the time in which I played it. I often see people de-valuing these experiences as ‘based in nostalgia’ or to label games for only being important for their ‘impact’ - as if they weren’t great games at the time. I can understand how someone going back to play Super Mario 64 today would have a hard time understanding why it’s one of the highest-rated games of all-time, missing the context that no one had played anything like it before.

[@stanm4410]

I don't think it's like that at all actually. If it's a well designed game back then, it should still be a fun game to pick up and play decades later. There are players picking up Super Mario 64 in the 2020s and enjoying it just as much as players did back in 1996. Players who weren't even born when it first came out are even speed running that game and setting new records. It may not be as impressive today in terms of graphics/tech as it was in 1996, but SM64 is a game that stands the test of time with its mechanics.

[@orcbrand]

One thing about nostalgia glasses is you can DEFINITELY tell when someone has them on when they're actively misremembering aspects of an old game usually in comparison to a new game ("They changed it, now it sucks," about an aspect that remained unchanged, for example). But we also just tend to forget the frustrating elements of old games, much like we "upscale" the graphics in our memory compared to what the actual game looks like too. And obviously we tend to lack focus on the flaws of the things we love, but that's one of the many reasons memory tends to distort. There is also a negatively prejudiced counterpart to nostalgia, where one makes unfair negative associations with something they misunderstood as a child which persist for a long time to come. ....does that have a name?

[@lanisolfire5692]

Im so sad i missed watching this one live, this was a beautiful video. The beauty and wonder of art is that it can make us feel things without us knowing why and its can tell us and shape us without us even realizing it. Someone could be nostalgic about something because it helped them get through a hard time in there life or a character subconsiously became there role model. Accusing someone of being "blided by nostalgia" and essentially telling someone there experience is irrelivant because you say so just makes the accuser come off as ignorant. Art is beautiful because it effects us all differently and art that made someone feel deeply and show them profound truths about themselves should be celebrated

[@AnAngryAlbino]

My personal issue with talking about things subjectively is that it is often used as a shield for a poorly constructed argument or piece of media, rather than looking at what went wrong and how to make something greater in the future. As for being blinded by nostalgia, that is possible and can be used in an argument without the presumptious aspect if, say, the person making said claim has provided substantial evidence for "This thing is poorly constructed because of evidence X/Y/Z." And the person defending the product can only say "Well I think it's good because I enjoyed it when I was younger." Another potential decent use of it would be rather than attacking what a person likes, if you are using it as a defense against them saying, "This thing is bad because it's not like previous thing." without going into any detail about the construction of the new thing. Outside of very specific scenarios though, I would agree that "You're blinded by nostalgia" is very much a non-argument that doesn't add anything to the discussion.

[@Shiftarus]

I think the only valid criticism of nostalgia is that it can inhibit your ability to enjoy NEW things.

[@K_Dog253]

Its a nuanced topic. I love the first pokemon, but cant play the newer ones, even if they are objectively better. I have a hard time playing the ff7 remake. I could play xenogears every year. But i still love finding new games. So is it nostalgia? I dont really think so; i just think some things are better than others, and being new or more streamlined or fancier doesnt make it superior

[@AntonioCunningham]

New things doesn't equal better.

[@henrytep8884]

I don’t think nostalgia should be criticized? Why? There’s nothing objective about nostalgia that gives it any room for criticism. It’s just a perspective born out of a human experience, a lens into one’s personal subjective experience with reality. It’s as reasonable as being a human with emotions. What is there to criticize for its existence. Also the ability to enjoy new things, that’s such an extremely deep rooted human imperative that nostalgia could never overcome. To experience new things, to grow is to be human, every second, every millisecond is a new experience. If nostalgia can inhibit one’s ability to experience new things…we all be undone.

[@Shiftarus]

@@henrytep8884 Well prepare to be undone, because there are many people who dont play new games, and dont watch new movies, and dont listen to new music ... because they prefer the media from the golden years of their lives. On a less dramatic note, sometimes instead of reading a new book I just re-read Jurassic Park for the 100th time because finding a great book can be tough. But if I never tried new Authors or genres out.... I would miss out on some of my favorite books ever. You are defending yourself as if I have a problem with nostalgia... I dont. I just think that its a mistake to let nostalgia prevent you from missing out on some of the wonderful new art that talented people are working hard on making daily. Not even going to say its dumb because I totally get it ... just a missed opportunity if you ask me. Also I want to be clear... when I said criticize about nostalgia I hope you understand that I meant in the context of a persons experience with it. This channel is honestly all about taking beloved things and criticizing them in a constructive way. Dont be so defensive, all facets of human thought have nuance and are worth considering.

[@Shiftarus]

@@AntonioCunningham exactly. My point is that when you are searching for great art you should not close your mind to new or old things. Its fine to then decide you prefer the other... but I would say that people from both sides would be surprised at how much they enjoyed the other

[@ViridianMaridian]

I would be down for an entire episode breaking down how objectivity doesn't exist in art. I got into an insane argument the other day with a guy who thought opinions on false death scenes were entirely subjective but fight scenes had objectively measurable qualities. I just could not get through to him that he was being hypocritical and the word he was searching for was 'consensus opinion'

[@theme6530]

Hian went full Al Pacino, fantastic. Great pod, thanks!

[@BOSIE321]

I feel condescension works both ways in these disagreements. For instance, I've politely said many times that I don't feel FF XII's story is the most engaging or the most emotional or interesting story the series has to offer and I've completed it three times so I know it, and you would not believe how many times someone has said 'well, you obviously just don't like mature political themes or just don't appreciate subtlety, go and play FF7 instead as it's more your level' (real quote) and I'm like 'Jesus, I've been playing politically themed games for decades, why would you presume that!?

[@henrytep8884]

Don’t be offended by gamer bro’s opinion on video games. There is no winning or value gained in that endeavor.

[@dangerousshoes]

I feel the same way about FF13, as well. I know the game quite well despite not being the biggest fan of it, mainly because I wanted to know WHY I didn't like the game so much.

[@BOSIE321]

@ I didn’t like 13 either sadly. 12 and 13 were the only two in the series that I really disliked on release. I replayed the zodiac age which made me like 12 more but I still see it as a flawed but fun game. I’m totally cool with people that like either game though, each to their own and all that, it’s just I find some 12 fans can be a bit pretentious in their arguments.

[@dangerousshoes]

About the same for me, as well. FF12 and 13 are probably the only games in the series where I'm disinterested in both the cast as well as the plot.

[@EdreesesPieces]

Thats also bad, but I dont think theres any correlation between people who do or dont say people are blinded by nostalgia and the people being condescending to you in this scenario.

[@ghost-in-the-ciel]

If anything, there seems to be a widespread irrational appraisal of new things as being "better", even though no real comparative analysis of merits is being performed. It's just assumed that the writing in the latest Sony hit is superior to, say, a 1998 RPG in depth, maturity, substance, and style, only because it uses voice acting and motion capture and ambient contemporary cinematic score to drape itself in the aesthetics of "quality storytelling". Of course it's better, we've come so far in technology! Right? I think anyone making accusations of nostalgic myopia should first examine whether they're blinded by what is essentially technical parlor tricks

[@Y-two-K]

I don’t even know if it’s necessarily because of technology improving in and of itself, but young millennials and GenZ viewing the world through a technological lens. What I mean by that, is they assume that as time goes on, people only get smarter, meaning the inventions and art that they make is only better. Old masterpieces? No, they’re too slow and boring. Kubrick and Hitchcock and Kurosawa were just born too early; they didn’t understand how to make an actual good movie. The real sign of ingeniousness is being able to create art that releases a steady stream of dopamine and looks/sounds modern. I think that’s what they think

[@lightsandlights6983]

This is one of Casen's greatest moments. Could not agree more.

[@grawlix311]

22:07 super funny. I’m rewatching Lost at the time of this video; 4 seasons in. I still love it, but is absolutely not for everyone

[@blossom357]

Concerning objectivity vs subjectivity, I am quite suspicious of people who say things like "Well, THIS is my favorite in the series but THAT is the best one if I'm being honest." What in the hell does such a statement even mean? Something as important as morality is subjective from society to society and era to era, and you're going to claim with authority that art, something that is more personal, has some barometer where something is better than another even despite you not enjoying it as much? It makes no sense.

[@dangerousshoes]

It's funny, because I've been quite guilty of this myself and never really thought much of it in the past. For example, my favorite Final Fantasy is IX. It's the one that means the most to me. It's got my favorite cast, themes, and overall narrative. However, I've also said that I think FFXIV is the BEST one, even if it is not my personal favorite. In my case, I mean that it's the best as a video game, overall. That being said, I do see an awful lot of humor in the statement.

[@SubToJinx]

If people decide on specific intersubjective metrics, then it does make sense.

[@viddysgamingviddyos4710]

A similar thing sort of happened when I did a 'top games collab' and the highest ranking FF was FF7 [original]. Someone who chose it said in this collab 'while 6 may be my fave FF, I do recommend 7 more'. Maybe it's a similar idea and it is indeed an unusual way of phrasing things, but I won't judge.

[@EdreesesPieces]

What that probably means is their tastes change and they got a new favorite in the series and have trouble accepting their tastes changed.

[@restlessoblivion]

That rant from Hion was epic and made more so by the Biker Mice From Mars callout. He's right though, that show was SO cool as a kid and it does not hold up at all haha. Although if he wanted to be more controversial with his example, he could have used the '88 TMNT show as well. Which, in my opinion, also doesn't really hold up without the nostalgia glasses (especially the first few seasons).

[@batman10011]

This has become my favorite podcast and favorite gaming related youtube channel over the past 2 months. Just want to say thank you for all that you do and keep up the great work.

[@SomniaCE]

I feel sorry for people who just refuse to play older games to be honest. They miss out on so many amazing and unique experiences all because they're too stubborn to have a little patience learning older control schemes or dealing with a lack of certain QoL features.

[@BillyMaurice]

I feel the same way and know many of my younger friends who can't handle something with lowfi graphics. It's sad in a way because they miss out on so many good stories.

[@tranceaddict11]

The way i've always looked at nostalgia is that it's intended to be a whole package. It's about the time and the place, how old I was, what I knew and what I didn't and how it made me feel at that time specifically, regardless of the quality of the game itself. When I recall something with nostalgia, i'm not really even saying "this game was amazing". It might be, it might not hold up, I may never have even given it a 2nd go as an adult to compare. I'm recalling the entire feeling, like a heavy sensory experience of a specific memory I don't think i'm blinded by nostalgia because nostalgia is literally the point, it's appreciating that feeling, the whole package of how I felt, enabled by the time, age, experience, regardless of whether the game was actually good. It's supposed to be a personal thing and it's not supposed to be a "rose tinted glasses" thing, because it's a real experience you had

[@henrytep8884]

I mean seriously take into consideration context, environment, and many of those nostalgic feelings absolutely are valid both in the subjective experience and there objective significance. For instance ff6 + ff7, were the wombo combo that made me love the series even if i rank 9 above both of them. But they were meaningful and significant realistic emotional and objectively important content in my life that i deeply resonate and can recall as amazing life experiences for me as a child. Call it nostalgia, call it whatever to try and diminish its significance, but what’s the point of doing that? Normally people diminish the experience due to their own ego and bias and don’t realize the perspective people are coming from when they have these amazing experiences that later become enshrined in nostalgia. It is just the human experience to have these things and appreciate them for what they are.

[@vexhardt211]

We must eliminate both nostalgia and recency bias. Games may only be judged in a more than 5 and less than 10 year window after release.

[@ToddMa09]

New game just released! Check back in 5 years to find out if it's any good or not! 😂

[@TheBlahSan]

And only by reviewers older than 30 to fully eliminate any chance of reminiscent feelings.

[@RalphNC09]

I think this is a horrible idea.

[@HaitaniMasayuki]

I'm sure there are a few things where I have fonder memories of, than I probably should have... but there are some things where had a strong position over 17 years ago to, and still have today, and over the years people said "That actually sucks!" back to "Actually that's awesome". It's always weird to observe stuff like that lol especially when it's something you liked from the get go

[@shiny460]

My theory on "objective" being used incorrectly when describing art is that a lot of people who discuss games feel really strongly one way or another and aren't comfortable with the idea that they aren't neccesarily "right" to feel that way. I think this because not only do people believe "objective" is above "subjective", they'll also use the word objective to describe *their* opinions and subjective to describe opinions they don't agree with.

[@ProxyDoug]

People who oppose objectivity tend to assume the person who is using it means they have the correct opinion, when it only means substantiated, it just means they have a logical reason to hold that opinion,. It can be correct, it can be wrong, but it never means to be absolute, and I think people should stop being so offended by it.

[@henrytep8884]

@@ProxyDougreally? Do we want to play this word game with the term objective? When did objectivity mean substantiated by logical reasoning that is an opinion? That’s contradictory. Also objectivity has nothing to do with logic or reason, it has everything to do with observable facts and evidence. No logic or reasoning is behind, just the cold hard material reality. Measurable and observable and “real”. Logic and reason are the opposite, based off human abstract thinking, even worse, based off human subjective conscious experience with sensory experience.

[@henrytep8884]

@@ProxyDougby definition objective means absolute. I see an apple, it objectively exist, but that’s why i don’t get into trying to tell people what is objective in a transjective or subjective endeavor such as art.

[@ProxyDoug]

@@henrytep8884 True, doesn't change the fact logic has to be backed by what's observable, so I wouldn't call it subjective at all.

[@Lonewolfz24]

I like the ideas, but I think it goes both ways. I truly have disgust for some things on a nostalgia lvl, as it impacted me when it came out in negative ways. I can admit that FF8 is objectively a good game, while hating it due to nostalgia.

[@sam7559]

16:50 I disagree with their statement of saying companies are using nostalgia. Yes games like FF VII have historical importance but that importance does not mean we should be constantly remaking it. The focus should be on making new games and new stories with maybe every 5-10 years seeing what of their library isn't easily accessible anymore and making them accessible in their original form as much as possible, and not just of FF and DQ games, but of even their lesser known games like Brave Fencer Musashi

[@DanielSantosAnalysis]

I sometimes get where people are coming from with the sentiment, truthfully I felt I was "blinded by nostalgia" when it came to certain things, but I do agree that making the assumption and trying to put people down for the things they like is generally shitty behavior and people need to do better.

[@v.m.a.d.l.e.6972]

People who complain about nostalgia are oftenly young and haven't reached yet the age when it starts to kick in.

[@Defixio.]

i often tell people "yea that's how people work" in response to people saying things like "that's just nostalgia".

[@rosh_lal_music]

Thanks for this. I feel like this conversation was about two things: - Bad faith in intergenerational discussions of media where both sides are probably being condescending - The way nostalgia takes on a different form as we ourselves grow and change - 'we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are'. I also would have liked to hear more about how nostalgia is actually a bittersweet sensation, and perhaps we turn to it in times of complication in our adult lives. Also my favourite quote about nostalgia, by Edward Thomas: 'the past is the only dead thing that smells sweet'.

[@Spades20XX]

I think a reason why statements like those are so triggering and anger inducing is because it tries to distill all the love and experience you had for something as something very basic, simple and negative. It almost always ends up received as disrespectful. It doesn’t have to be just the nostalgia argument but any statement of “well I heard it sucks” or “yeah but it’s stupid because of X reason” you’re not meeting someone’s case with the same depth they have in liking it that you do of disliking it, and it’s even worse when you know less about it too.

[@Enharmony1625]

What an excellent discussion!

[@haybusa4547]

Dude I got recommended your Resonant Archive video also titled the same thing. Is this synchronicity?!?! I'm going to enjoy this one thanks Mike and Casen!

[@rangerscoach]

great episode. saying nostalgia is even a negative is weird. there are a lot of positive aspects to nostalgia as well . im always surprised when i have the feeling of nostalgia for things i never experienced as a kid or teenager. i never played suikoden 2 when i was young but i felt nostalgic about that game from the moment i loaded it and played it only a few short years ago.

[@richardkhchang]

It's just as easy to be blinded by recency bias as it is to be blinded by nostalgia. Thus rendering the terms/effects pretty useless. I do disagree with Casen and dislike the idea of liking something out of nostalgia, though, at least on a personal level, I do. Not because it's subjective (which I feel is the only way to judge something-- I HATE objective checklist people and find their approach misguided), but because I find that particular subjective feeling superficial/shallow/fleeting rather than truly powerful and lasting. (it's mostly just comfort posing as meaning/beauty, in my opinion-- in hindsight it feels like fool's gold). If something nostalgic DOES last and survive re-experiences (like FFVII, for me, to some extent), it's no longer nostalgia doing the heavy lifting anyways, so the effect of nostalgia ONLY serves as a nuisance that distracts/deludes you from your eventual true feelings, and wastes years doing that, in my opinion. IF it aligns with your true feelings, that's purely incidental, I feel. It's undoubtedly a present but EXTREMELY limited/deceptive factor not worth considering (at least not in subjective value judgements), in my view. The feeling of nostalgia is subjectively "overrated" =P. I would never presume someone is nostalgic if they insisted that they weren't, though-- it's a dumb argument, as dumb/disingenuous as presuming any other baseless influence. But also, if someone's outright embracing nostalgia as a point of pride, I would not have the "Yes! Exactly! That's great!" attitude Casen does. Instead, I would probably have a similar reaction to someone embracing that they love someone primarily because of how hot they are.

[@Silvergun_Raven]

I get hounded online about nostalgia whenever I bring up Super Mario 64 or the original RE titles. Many hate them because they supposedly had bad controls or camera angles, but they instantly clicked with me back when they originally released and they’re still fun to play. Which is my argument: if said game was fun back then to me, most likely that stays the same if I play said game today and therefore not blinded by nostalgia.

[@Randhrick]

I am not denying nostalgia is something good and human, we all have it for something. Now, the problem I have with this are people being too nostalgic. They keep saying a game is the best they ever played even though they have never replayed it since they were kids. Furthermore, some people are so blinded by it that they refuse to acknowledge anything modern as good game and only live in the past, because "it was better back then". This is the problem I have with people being too nostalgic.

[@mikaranta5840]

I feel nostalgia for things that had an effect on me. Blinded by nostalgia means blinded by art that changed me. Is it bad thing an artpiece has an effect on me? Isn't that what art is for?

[@Shiftarus]

well, theres a bit more nuance than that right? If you are enjoying the classics by yourself, nostalgia blindness is awesome. But if you are being angry and hateful to strangers for enjoying something new that you think has been ruined, less so. I am not saying you are like that to be clear, only that there are others who ACTUALLY deserve the term nostalgia blindness, where as usually its just a very normal and healthy thing.

[@trollingisasport]

Ive completely become numb to nostalgia these days. I still look fondly on past experiences but don't use them as a barometer to judge what I like and I don't fawn over old games or try to defend them anymore. I'd rather focus on individual experiences and fuctionality.

[@haydenanderson981]

Hey guys I just wanted to express my feelings and thoughts abt you guys in general more specifically lately I guess so I appreciate you guys and enjoy watching your content a lot your "filler" vids where you guys just yap abt random stuff and things in your own life's is really entertaining too just how much work you guys put into your content is so admirable and commendable I also love and appreciate how articulate you guys are and seeing you guys grow is so satisfying to see I found you guys through the NieR replicant podcast I cant say it enough its so fun to feel the passion you both have for games as a medium but to come to the main point I've been dealing with a lot of fears or like irrational fears sometimes even acknowledging how stupid your fears are won't really take the edge off unfortunately its kind of hard and embarrassing to talk about but basically I saw that Casen has been following/ liking really far right leaning stuff and all and that made me like quite uncomfortable because my brain at that moment goes irrational fearful just goes crazy thinking and fearing that pretty much nobody or most people will never really accept me not even the people I watch and feel so positive about because I was born a certain way and I just want to be normal obviously I don't want to stick out im not proud of my identity just want to fit in and I try to be optimistic but its quite difficult idk where I'm trying to go with this I just feel so conflicted and anxious and want to keep supporting you guys but idk yeah idk tldr idk

[@neil4692]

Watched my Dad play Half Life 1 and Dad watched and helped with Puzzles in HL2 since he was too old to play it. Absolutely nothing that can ever take that experience away from me with that nostalgic feeling I got with the memories attached to it. It'll forever be one of my favourite games just because of those memories attached to it.

[@mellybeannn14]

Casen! It’s never too late to reach out to your friend, even if you’re not in touch anymore, and apologize/acknowledge you were in the wrong! You don’t know if he thinks about that argument often as well, and it might make him feel good to hear that from you. Maybe he doesn’t respond to it, but I wonder if it might also make you feel somewhat freed from the cringe you feel when you reflect on it. Humans are allowed to grow and change, and the world might be a better place if more people reached out to people they’d hurt and apologized. Think about it!

[@-Monad-]

Respectfully disagree, sometimes it is too late. Let sleeping dogs lie.

[@awalltep81]

No I don’t think so. I went on a huge JRPG kick to complete my backlog and often much older games like FF6, FF9, and Xenoblade 1 completely grabbed me and had me hooked while I couldn’t get into some of the newer stuff like Metaphor at all. I think there is something to be said for how developers had to make up for lack of storage space and technical specs with immersive gameplay and storytelling. The older greats absolutely hold up much of the time.

[@superrobot3187]

Idk if Metaphor is a fair comparison just because its different from other JRPGs due to the fact that is a schedule-based game which can cause a lot more downtime between gameplay, and slow the pacing structure of it sometimes like other persona games. So it really lives and dies by do you like the dating sim aspects of the game where you're raising social stats instead of battle stats so you can talk to other characters. And also it's just that games are really taking a longer time to release in certain genres, which is a bubble that I hope pops soon so we can get faster releases instead of waiting 5-6 years for an release to see if its even good or not. I think that kind of thing is diluting not just JRPGs but all kinds of stuff a bit too much.

[@dangerousshoes]

Definitely some recency bias happening, I feel. I don't think it's fair to compare a game such as Metaphor given that the game is so young; opinions on things change as time passes, and I don't think the game is old enough to be fully critiqued to the level of something like, say, Ocarina of Time.

[@pauldavis7318]

Man, Casen is really come out of the gate with that full-time job vigor

[@Meatslinger2323]

I am so blinded by nostalgia that I am unable to enjoy new things sometimes. I have memories so so beautiful that I feel actual physical pain sometimes knowing those moments are gone forever

[@EdreesesPieces]

Often people who say this love games from as long as 2 to 3 years ago. As if you can't be nostalgic for something 3 years ago. That's themostt ridiculous thing Ive heard. For example, you can be nostalgic for Unicorn Overlord. It's been about a less than a year. I dated a girl back then who I havent seen since and im quite nostalgic for her. Nostalgia has no time restrictions. Maybe people only like this years GOTY candidate's due to nostalgia from the summer or early this year.

[@wq7170]

So you know how in cartoons they usually say "xyz sucks" to crap on something? There's this joke in gravity falls where maybel writes "Sev'ral Timez is Overrated" to enrage a passing driver that I immediately thought of when you mentioned that

[@AntonioCunningham]

I can't thumbs this video up enough! I will be sharing with many people because I'm SO TIRED of people using the dismissal tactics of "you're blinded by nostalgia" Thanks for creating such a valuable video:-)

[@LucasPatricio]

I would like to contribute a reflection on how etymology can influence the understanding of emotions. In Portuguese, there is a word that defines the feeling of missing something in a nostalgic way: “saudade”. One of the most untranslatable words in the world, saudade is defined as: a melancholic feeling due to the absence of a person, thing, or place, or the lack of pleasurable experiences once lived. When you ask a Portuguese speaker about the meaning of nostalgia, the answers are usually associated with positive feelings of memories-because the language allows for a distinction between this sentiment and the melancholic one, saudade. I find this simply fascinating and thought it would be interesting to share it with you!

[@ProxyDoug]

If anything, there's this shiny object syndrome people never call out, where some are always going for the new thing even though it's basically the same as the previous thing. A lot of people have been trained to not appreciate art enough for it to have an impact outside of the immediate present.

[@blossom357]

I question how true this is. People don't show every facet of themselves at all times. I would venture a guess the reality is everyone is on a spectrum of "I prefer older things" and "I prefer newer things." Personally, I fall on "I prefer to seek out 20th century novels, but I'll check out the occasional book from the past decade or two." Some might fall on that other end. Some might ONLY read classics (which I'd argue is as "bad" as this shiny object syndrome) while some might ONLY read new stuff. I would say those extremists are probably outliers, though.

[@blackdragon7038]

The reason why ppl used the term blinded by nostalgia is because there are groups are ppl that think all modern gaming is bad and the old games are better. This applies to anime, movies, tv shows and even sports like bball. Bball in the MJ era is not the same as today's game. The players are more skilled, athletic, shoot 3s better and can defend multiple positions better. That's just a fact, athletes are better now overall. Gaming like other entertainment has evolved over the years like gameplay mechanics, level design, controls, dialogue, visuals, performance, QOL etc. MGS1 is one of my fav games of all time, but the gameplay is terrible and hasn't aged well. That's why a lot of old JRPGs remaster versions have turbo mode, remove random encounters and other QOL features coz those mechanics haven't aged well. That's just life, everything evolves and the standards have changed. Games do aged, and some ppl don't want to acknowledge it and just criticise modern games, hence why ppl used the term blinded by nostalgia. They give old games a pass and overlook their flaws, while being hyper critical to newer games. Just coz the game is a classic, that doesn't mean it's not immuned to criticism.

[@tylertanner7378]

Hey guys, loved the podcast as always, and I completely agree with your points about nostalgia being a good thing. Your work is genuinely thoughtful and nuanced and has changed my thinking on a lot of things. Please understand, my criticism comes not from a place of hate, but genuine love of your work. I know both of you care deeply about nuance, which is why I was surprised that Casen had such absolute things to say about skepticism. I think you’ve misunderstood it - at least as I understand skepticism, it’s not about disbelieving everything. That’s cynicism. True skepticism can be summed up simply as, “I want to believe as few false things and as many true things as possible.” It’s important to remember the second part - as MANY true things as possible. Skepticism actively seeks for things to believe in, we just have a high standard of evidence for those things. I think things like love, friendship, nostalgia, art, mindfulness, etc., have longstanding evidence of their benefit and meaning to the human soul.

[@phillystevesteak6982]

I hate when people bring up the "blinded by nostalgia" rebuttle because it's an an immediate conversation ender (and you cant often prove they are anyhow); there's no where to go once someone's made up their mind you've been compromised by nostalgia bias.

[@JebberGamingJaws]

Soooo spot on. This is why I don’t converse about games on the internet almost at all, in spite of how much I like to listen to videos of other people doing so 😂.

[@bekir51500]

In French we have a saying the perfectly embodies the feeling of nostalgia, it's called Madeleine de Proust, basically when you feel, smell, taste or hear something that takes you back and gives you as you guys said a feeling of deja vu like or of deep reminiscence. I don't know if there is any english equivalent but in France it's a common expression to use to describe a deep feeling of nostalgia. A good exemple would be the Anton Ego scene in Ratatouille.

[@overleveledgames]

That's IT! I'm joining The Inner Sanctum.

[@ImJaredRoss]

This reminds me a lot of my feeling about the Star Wars Prequels. I was a kid when I watched all 3, the third movie was the first Star Wars film I saw in theaters and I loved watching those movies. As I got older, in my impressionable teens I saw how the internet and generations before me hated the prequels so, I thought I couldn’t like them, so I didn’t watch them or when I did id point out all their problems. I think the Plinkett Reviews were super influential in fueling the inherent flaws in those films. However, as I got older I realized, I still really like these films, problems aside, I enjoy watching them and still enjoy watching them. That doesn’t make my subjective opinion invalid. It’s gratifying to enjoy those films and not care about what people think now.

[@Takyomi]

yeah man. Every couple of years i rewatch the prequels and it definitely feels very satisfying to watch.

[@hian]

The Plinkett reviews are terrible though, and have almost no substance or valid reasoning to them, so I don't think they pointing out "the inherent flaws of the films" as much as pander to the lowest common denominators of malcontents and dragging the movies through the mud for reasons that had nothing to do with their quality as films one way or the other. While I think there are plenty of valid, subjective reasons why a person might fail to resonate with the sequels(like being annoyed by Jar Jar, or not liking the shift in aesthetics and tone etc), the Plinkett reviews are probably some of the worst faith, and lowest quality reviews I've ever seen for something that so many people apparently think highly of, or were influenced by, and it saddens me to this day that they managed to capture as many minds as they did with their tripe. I'm not about to argue that the prequels are the best movies ever made or something, but you should never be made to feel as though liking them is some sort of guilty pleasure based in nostalgia as though they're the Sci-Fi equivalent of The Room or something. They're not. They're competently made movies with plenty of depth and cinematic quality. Much more so than many films that don't recieve half the hatred the prequels did. Unfortunately, they were misaligned by a generation of man-children who couldn't accept that what George made wasn't what they had wanted out of the franchise.

[@KashiwaDaisuke]

To play devil's advocate: being unable to recognize your nostalgia biases can become problematic when you're recommending games to others. For example, I'm a huge fan of OoT. I've beaten it about 30 times. However, I would never recommend it to my 10 year old nephew. I know that a significant part of my enjoyment stems from the fact that I played it as a kid, and I know the game's poor aging would negatively impact my nephew's experience. Not everyone has the self-awareness to temper their recommendations for audiences other than themselves, and as you get older, time becomes your most precious commodity. As such, it's natural to become much more discerning with game suggestions.

[@XanderVJ]

OOT is a terrible example. The whole "OOT has aged poorly" is a statement that, ironically enough, has aged poorly. That's a take from like 2009. Ever since then you will find takes from a lot of people who weren't even born when the game came out, and they love it just the same. And I'm not talking about the 3DS remake (although it definitely helped), but the original.

[@KashiwaDaisuke]

@@XanderVJ OoT is incredible, but in my opinion, it's relatively inaccessible to young gamers. The framerate averages at 15fps, the control scheme is archaic compared to modern 3D titles, and some aspects of the game (aiming with the slingshot/bow/hookshot, equipping and removing the Iron Boots in the Water Temple, etc.) can be downright frustrating. The story is generic by modern standards, as it essentially uses the groundwork set by ALttP. This isn't a bad thing, mind you; the Dragon Quest series has been retelling the hero's journey over and over for the last 40 years, and that series is beloved. But if a modern gamer is expecting OoT to subvert their expectations, they should probably look elsewhere. OoT can absolutely be enjoyed by younger gamers, but I find it difficult to recommend to someone with no prior experience with Zelda titles. In my opinion, it's best enjoyed when you already have a curiosity for the series' history. In that context, tracing the lore back to its roots can be thrilling, i.e. seeing the first appearance of Ganondorf, the Gorons, Malon, the Kokiri, the Great Deku Tree, Lord Jabu-Jabu, etc.

[@RalphNC09]

Do we really need to temper our recommendations to people? If they try it and don't like it, well... who cares if I gave a bad recommendation?

[@johnmcternan4157]

You wasted their valuable time for one.

[@RalphNC09]

@johnmcternan4157 I think these are horrible takes, honestly. I'm not really sure where these new gamer attitudes are coming from. I just like to have conversations about games. Now you guys are telling us we have to "temper my recommendations" and care about the time of strangers online, so much so that now we can't have normal, lighthearted conversations about games? I think we should be a little wary of nostalgia in our lives so we can have personal growth; so we can learn, experience new things and all that. But the caveats are 1. We should just be a little wary because reminiscing isn't that huge of a danger to personal growth, and 2. I think asking people to change the way they think about and see something so that they don't waste a stranger's time is problematic. And maybe a little entitled.

[@UnrealChaosHD]

Lets go guys this is great, more and more eposodes, we will be here to watch them

[@RaineyDaysStudio]

HOLY SHIT BIKER MICE FROM MARS

[@JohnnySoCal]

Another great episode. Keep it up!

[@frost1080]

Casen was cooking

[@TheMilhouseExperience]

I’ve been turned around on 3 series before when I gave them a shot. 1. God of War (before 2018) Kratos was was a raging edge lord but the side games really fleshed out his character. Even if Chains of Olympus was kinda trash, it got the last 15 minutes right by having Kratos shoving his daughter being the hardest button mash in the series. 2. Uncharted trilogy was really good. Nathan Drake is still a mass murderer but Uncharted 2 was worth playing through, and the Trilogy was solid, with a sort of flat ending. 3. The Last of Us is an absolutely solid game. But it still isn’t as good as people hype it up to be. Went from completely despising the title to realizing it’s a victim of its own fan base. Solid game, Joel is still an A-hole. The first 15 minutes doesn’t justify 20 years of very questionable behavior and potential human trafficking.

[@johnmcternan4157]

I too loved the last of us in spite of itself, the ending genuinely gripped me and elevated the whole thing even if i found it the entirety of it kind of monotonous to play.

[@vexhardt211]

Overrated is the most overused term in media. I hate it. What does it even mean? Too many people like a thing that you don’t? You like a thing more that has less exposure than the more popular thing? I think the term underrated has far more merit, because a game may just not get the sort of coverage or marketing to put it in front of more people that might love it if only they knew about it.

[@jacobmonks3722]

Agreed, but even "underrated" probably isn't the correct term. I'd say "overlooked."

[@XanderVJ]

"Overrated" and "underrated" basically mean that the praise or lack thereof a piece of art has is undeserved. That people should not enjoy it the way they do, and if they don't enjoy it to the degree they "objectively" deserve, then there's something wrong with them. They have "bad taste". Which means they are inferior in the art pecking order. That's what those terms mean.

[@Y-two-K]

Dude, being a big Beatles fan in 2024 is crazy. Although, of course, they still have a lot of fans worldwide, every discussion I see about them on posts dedicated to the topic always have a ton of comments with people saying they’re overrated. Like, except for the hottest new thing that just released, I’m pretty sure Beatles mentions see that word thrown around more than anything else does. Well, FF7 is up there too, which I also dearly love. I think part of it is younger generations experiencing these things without any context or history, and they aren’t using the right perspective to enjoy these things - - they’re using a more modern lens of how things are done instead and immediately assuming that because their perspective is more “modern”, they are correct… They think that the idea of technology always improving objectively can be applied to art in the same way. At work a dude in his early 20s said he didn’t watch movies made from before 1990 because “the graphics are bad”. I called all this left brain syndrome, that people are living too much based on this shaky idea of progress, logic and objectivity instead of engaging with the subjective and abstract.

[@Postumeartist]

I think your podcast is objectively fantastic and everyone should subscribe. I really do try to remove nostalgia as I like to replay games as if it’s my first time. That way, if I ever recommend an old game to someone, Im more likely to tell if they would like that particular game or not. I can say that some games I enjoy are definitely purely because of nostalgia. But in all honesty, I kind of know that already when I choose to replay them.

[@eddienash4400]

Mike and Cason going off the cuff in the first five minutes and are cooking. I’ll be right back. Let me go grab my popcorn. 😂

[@ValEzri]

I have 3 points I'd like to make: 1) How bizarre that you mentioned Lost.... as I've recently started re-watching it 🤭 (currently on the final season, which is 6 BTW) because I had a strong nostalgia for it. Honestly, it's been like visiting old friends and this time around, because of bingeing it, it threaded together more easily and though the ending is a bit of a let down (as I recall it, not got there this time around yet), I am looking forward to it and will be lost without it ('scuse the pun) - please binge it and do a podcast Mike and Casen. 2) I have a mild form of epilepsy (controlled for a long time now with meds) and my experience of it was an overwhelming sense of déjà vu which would at best result in me "losing time" and at it's worst, would force me to pass out. Now we all say we have experienced déjà vu at some point but most people actually haven't, not the "real" thing. The real thing is a medical/psychological term describing what happens to the brain, which is something like this: You brain replays each fraction/nanosecond of what has JUST happened like flicking through pages of a book, but to your brain, it is a smooth process like one scene of a film. In my case that scene replay had an extremely strong sense of nostalgia attached to it, so much so, that I would be convinced that it was something that had happened much further in the past. Sometimes I'd recognise it being déjà vu and it would stop, but at others, oh boy it did not, and then I'd pass out. My point, as you have made, is that sometimes nostalgia is baaad, luckily most people won't experience the real déjà vu kind, and sometimes it is soo good, like re-watching Lost. 3) When you remember something, you are recalling your previous memory of it, not necessarily the original experience.

[@mikev8746]

I mean I do think that by constantly revisiting something there’s the danger that you start to over idealize said thing. Because every revisitation something new has to be gained from it. And also this constant time devotion has to be justified some way. So a good thing can quickly become great and then exceptional. It’s also what maybe some people mean when they bring up nostalgia. I agree that using these kinds of sentences is low hanging fruit and it often makes one sound unlikeable. But at the same time I do think theres atleast some deeper truth to these head-butting engagements with these two groups on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Because constantly returning to a familiar and loved thing will probably increase one’s adoration for it ever so slowly. And because everything is already known you end up reading into things, praising the tiniest nuances and to a degree glossing over the few flaws it has. This then gets explained away as ‘charm’. And so you end up with a thing thats immune to any criticism or flaw finding. This wouldn’t be an issue onto its own were it not for the fact that this then clashes with newer iterations and those logically not being able to live up to this perfectly considered thing which is idealized and put on a pedestal. And so is used as comparison or at worst ammunition to tear down at the new thing. Thats when it becomes toxic. And you see this with current day remake and newer JRPG releases discussions. And it kind of stems from stuff like this. Where again the logic which was used here of “don’t speak of a thing you don’t enjoy and haven’t devoted any time too vs someone who has” could be used in its defense just the same. But rarely is accepted as an argument when people dismiss said newer thing based on their adoration of the old. Otherwise I don’t even disagree that the old stuff is fun to revisit . But I think it’s still more interesting to pose a counter argument rather than just posting the 301st agreement comment. That and I think there’s some deeper unresolved thing lying at the center of this all if the last 3/4 videos all basically circled back to bringing up FF7 yet again 😂

[@kurtpritchett117]

I have had that nostalgic moments where I have went back and played games or watched shows again. It has actually taken away from it for me so now I just enjoy the memory I have of that thing.

[@quezcatol]

been saying for years ff7 has one of the best OST of all time- im glad remake and rebirth got the praise and awards for it (rebirth even won the award for best music and score) and yet people think that we love ff7 just for the nostalgia- no the music is timeless and 10/10! my top 3 favorite games are: ff7, witcher 3 and persona 5. I am willing to defend great games WHILE admit newer are better than my childhood memories as well (still love mario 3, mario 64 and final fantasy 9 a ton BUT counter-strike, world of warcraft etc are so much better no matter what "Kid quez" wants to believe)

[@Keaixiaoen0919]

Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if it's nostalgia or it the game was genuinely good. For example when you were talking about game intros and brought up Kingdom hearts , I had the same exact thoughts every time I go back to it. I have a similar thing with the wind waker as well. Both of which are games I grew up with, so it's hard to really tell if I'm being nostalgic.

[@Paul-to1nb]

Let me just confirm that they ARE good. You may rest easy now.

[@nschulz4537]

Great content as usual! While I agree someone saying that "you're blinded by nostalgia" is saying more about themselves than about you/the work you're discussing/your discussion of the work you're discussing - I have a different hypothesis about what leads someone to make that accusation. I suspect that rather than trolling, many of these commenters are grappling with angst over their own opiate-like relationship with nostalgia, and simply projecting. Your audience are necessarily _relatively_ passive consumers of your content. Even in the cases where I sit through a whole video in rapt attention, I haven't e.g. done the playthrough/rewatch, taken the notes, or done the research that you did to get to your point of appreciation. So while you may put a lot of yourself into a replay of FF7 - listening to your video is just as likely to be the path of least resistance for me (as a proxy for your audience), and there's a degree of angst around the extent to which I'm challenging myself, expanding my horizons etc - or just soothing myself with remixes of comfortable material from my childhood. I think the two of you (especially Casen with the discussion and pointers on learning new languages) are consciously engaged in broadening your horizons and putting the hard work of continually developing a stronger muscle for cultural and aesthetic appreciation, and as far as podcast content about videogames and movies goes, yours is maybe my very favorite. Nevertheless, I cannot shake the feeling that I probably _should_ be spending the time I spent listening to this listening to Fellowship of the Ring in French (or Spanish). So for myself, although I might not necessarily be "blinded" by nostalgia, I'm certainly a little bit drugged by it.

[@Faizan1631]

I am guilty of saying stuff similar to this but I usually approach it in a way where I'll openly admit I don't understand it partly because I just don't have the context of the time in which that thing was released. So FF7 for example, its a game I enjoy but I don't think its this masterpiece people 10 years older than me usually think it is and I think part of that is because I wasn't there when it released, sure you could say you play it often enough that theres no way nostalgia has anything to do with your love of the game but you were still there when it released, you understand how popular it was when it released, how revolutionary it was, etc. in a way I will just never be able to. I won't knock someone for that tho, its more just an explanation for why I don't feel the same way they feel. Now, I say all this because, as someone on the other end of this, growing up on the internet was super frustrating when it came to nostalgia. I'm 25 years old, I'm part of the first generation to largely grow up with the internet which means I was using it as a kid, with my kid brain and kid-like understanding of the world. Something that used to annoy me as a kid was that 90s kids (yes it was 90s kids, you'd get the odd 80s kid but they were never anywhere near as bad about this) would CONSTANTLY go on about how their childhood was "superior" to my childhood. It was super frustrating because I KNEW they barely touched the stuff I was growing up with at the time and just wanted to act superior but I was also too young to understand that they were just a vocal minority and that most 90s kids weren't like that. So kid me from 15 years ago just thought all 90s kids were blinded by nostalgia and tbh I held onto some resentment from that for a while. Looking back I obviously know most 90s kids weren't like that but I will say the ones that were truly were blinded by nostalgia (or their past experiences if we want to use words more accurately). Thankfully I don't see as much of this anymore (although when I do see it its somehow still a 90s kid after all these years).

[@binglebandit]

For me being blinded by nostalgia is liking something that hasn’t aged well but still loving it as more of a guilty pleasure. I think though that the person feeling that way has to acknowledge that it didn’t age well, or else it just doesn’t really fit. Otherwise it would just be a “classic” instead. For example I love a lot of 90s and 00s movies that have aged badly that I wouldn’t necessarily recommend to someone who hasn’t seen them before, but I might still watch them again for the sake of enjoyment knowing it has flaws. One example of an older movie is every winter I’d watch Love Actually. Every single year it feels just a bit more cringe and the problems with it grind just a bit more. I’d be reluctant to recommend it, but I’ll probably keep watching it until something else sticks out enough to take its place. If someone asked why anyone would like Love Actually I feel like my defense would be, well it was good at the time. I feel like Labyrinth is another movie that aged badly (it was weird enough when it came out too) where you really had to be there. 😅 Edit to add, I also feel like nostalgia can be being tied to something whether it makes sense or not. Example my husband has gotten into collecting physical media (I’m all on board) but to the point of preferring dvd copies over Blu-ray for movies. To me this serves no logical purpose unless there is content that wasn’t reproduced in the Blu-ray version. To me at least this can only be a matter of nostalgia cause why would anyone watch something lower resolution? It’s all just preferences though so best to let people have what makes them happy.

[@tarnetskygge]

I kinda disagree with the very concept that media can "age badly". I think when people say that something they liked aged badly and they no longer like it or regard it as a guilty pleasure, it often means they just went along with the mass opinion at the time and now they either formed their own opinion or just shifted their opinion to align with the current mass opinion. It's a bit disingenuous either way.

[@binglebandit]

@ It doesn’t have to be disingenuous. Think about how people get nostalgic for their first car. If they get a chance to drive the same car again it can be a fun reminder of what things used to be like. People can still like parts of that experience while absolutely wanting to leave it behind for newer and better things. Just by the nature of things moving on I’d argue that the majority of things that aren’t “classic” have basically been deemed as aging badly, but they can still be genuinely loved by someone. What do you consider nostalgia to be?

[@tarnetskygge]

I'm not picking on anyone specifically here, you may have a good reason for those specific opinions. But I don't think for example that today's random mediocre pop music is "better" than forgotten pop of the 90s or any other decade, it's just more relevant to a wider group of people because of recency. The old stuff didn't age *badly*, it just aged.

[@EdreesesPieces]

The same thing that makes a game age poorly for one person can literally mean it aged well (got even better over time) for someone else. The game doesnt change. Its your tastes that do. Someone elses tastes may change in a way that actually makes that old game better to play now. Maybe most gamees tastes today have changed to like that game less, but that doesnt mean people who used to like the game still dont have their original tastes.

[@AdlerCat]

I think there is something to be said about experiencing something when you've never experienced anything like it before. The "first" factor. Your first kiss was not special, as kisses go (it was probably quite sub par in fact), but it is special to you. Most people's favorite Final Fantasy will be the first one they played, especially if it was the first JRPG you played (as FF7 was for most Americans of a certain age). I think of jaded movie reviewers, not being impressed by a well made movie that has no new ideas. Most people are not film majors, a new popular film will introduce these old (but still good!) ideas to a ton of people for the first time. These films become all time classics. I experienced this with Takahashi's Xeno games. When I played Xenogears, I had never taken a philosophy course, never watched an anime more sophisticated than DBZ, never cracked open a popular science magazine. Takahashi and his interests were completely alien to me. I will never have that much new stuff introduced to me that quickly ever again (short of being abducted by actual aliens). Then I play Xenoblade 1 and 2 as an adult and it just didn't hit the same. It was clearly made for a younger audience and didn't have as much to offer me specifically. But those games are much bigger than any Xeno game that came before it, and it blew many young minds. To me those are just solid games, but to those young gamers that's their Xenogears. I did love XB3 though, so I'm not doomed to find all new things derivative and meh, at least.

[@Shiftarus]

well said

[@EdreesesPieces]

I think theres a point to be made of gameplay vs story here. Xenoblade series might be more popular than xenogears largely because of gameplay. If you put random battles and xenogears combat in xenoblade 1-3, can you seriously convince yourself it would be anywhere near as popular? But if you remade xenogears with the same story word for word, and just changed the gameplay to xenoblade even the biggest xenogears fans might like that version better. Xenogears isnt loved for the things that modern gamers would hate about it.

[@AdlerCat]

@@EdreesesPieces I don't think it's a gameplay issue. Xenogears came out in the golden era of JRPGs, perhaps the high water mark in terms of quality, quantity, and bankability. It was just easy to miss great JRPG's at that time. A ton of them were never even released in the west. By the time Xenoblade came out, Nintendo had deviated so much from the hardware of the other consoles that it formed a separate ecosystem in terms of software. Xenoblade was an RPG flagship for Nintendo. Xenogears was a Squaresoft game that didn't have Fantasy or Chrono in the title. It barely made it to the west, they didn't even make many copies of the game. Xenogears' game design was not prohibitive in 1998, it was just a small fish in a big sea filled to the brim with fish. And Square Enix has not made it available to future generations either, while the entire Xenoblade series is updated and digitally available on the current Nintendo console. Xenoblade is going to have a huge legacy because of this. Anyway, sales don't reflect quality. My point was, for a younger generation, Xenoblade is the definitive Xeno experience because those titles introduced them to a lot of new and heavy stuff. It didn't have that effect on me because those things aren't new to me. I didn't need to replay those games 6 times and do a bunch of research and seek forums and podcasts about those games (the way I did with Xenogears as a neophyte). That's how we get so close to the games we love, they take us on a journey beyond the bounds of the game itself. That's a special relationship to be celebrated. Just because XBC didn't hit me at the right place and time, does not mean it is not worthy to take a new generation to a place I was taken a decade prior.

[@DKZK21]

In my experience it often comes down to just how clearly I remember the game. If I remember it very clearly then the likelihood of the replay quality matching my memories of it is usually pretty good, very rarely is a game worse than I remember it. If anything, the inverse is FAR more common, where I remember something being less good actually ends up being a lot better on second playthrough because I'm just older and better able to analyze and catch on to elements of the narrative or gameplay design that I never noticed before and I end up appreciating it more for that reason. I think that's one of the running sentiments I've heard both Mike and Casen repeatedly bring up throughout these series too.

[@Rithysak101]

Here's another question. Can you be nostalgic for games you've never played before?

[@tarnetskygge]

There's a term for a nostalgic feeling for something you never actually experienced personally: "anemoia".

[@Rithysak101]

​​@@tarnetskyggethat happened to me when I tried ffvi for the first time.

[@KamPOV01]

Day 2 of asking for a Skies of Arcadia long discussion.

[@JamesBatac]

Hey guys, just wanted to say Merry Christmas!

[@grahfkarate1799]

Xenogears is my favorite video game of all time…. To answer the question yes. 😆

[@foreignuser_]

check out the Biker Mice from Mars SNES game! I used to LOVE that game so much! I must have rented it 5 times before my Mom just bought it for me.

[@volsere]

great cast, a lot of fun to listen to

[@ghost-in-the-ciel]

Even though Casen hadn''t seen the show, everything he said about Lost in that argument was correct

[@nicolasjonasson4820]

Nice. I can't believe how some things are considered for debate nowadays.

[@K_Dog253]

Love herbie hancock

[@nicolasjonasson4820]

@@K_Dog253 Glad to hear it!

[@makotoisthebestprotag1870]

15:35 While I can appreciate nostalgia has a feeling that calls back to simpler or memorable times, I do indeed have a problem with companies banking on it. On David's point, the belief that the person he is referring to assumes the product (i.e. FFVII) has no value because of nostalgia is false. A person can recognize that FFVII has value, but in a time where companies and creative forces are bereft of new ideas and are rehashing old ones, relying on older IPs is a complete insult to the consumer's intelligence, demonstrates an unwillingness to take risks, and stifles originality. Nostalgia is a mixed big for me rather than being all good.

[@the_Analogist4011]

I LOVED both Ocarina of Time AND Egoraptor's Sequelitis episode about it.

[@Metro4466]

Love you guys!

[@danilokleber]

I saw the SNES and immediately clicked, so yes.

[@flippen721]

I dont see blinded by nostalgia as something bad, it is a driving force and makes one feel good. The indie game scene would probably not be as strong as it is if it wasnt for nostalgia. Disclaimer, i have not had time to listen to your conversation yet, my comment is based on gut reaction upon reading the title.

[@raliger]

I feel this mainly pertains to games from the third and the 5th generations. The thought being that games in those generations didn't age as well. But as a near 45 year old man, gaming since the mid 80's, I can still have a blast playing those games from the NES, Sega Master System, PSOne, Saturn, and N64. For 3D games from that generation, sure the controls have improved, and textures, and collision detection, etc. but I can always have fun playing Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy VII, and so forth. The imagination and joy I had back then playing those games hasn't escaped me. Never will. Some games may not hold up for me but it's not a rule that I shouldn't like other games from that time because I'm blinded by nostalgia. I am going through Lunar on the Sega CD and I'll be damned if it still doesn't give me the feelings of joy that game did when I was young. Even with a more updated version from the PSOne being available. The music. The story. It can be timeless. For me. And that is not just nostalgia. Hell, it can be a beautiful thing as art is subjective and nothing wrong with that

[@DJK1NGGaming]

I am not blinded by Nostalgia. A lot of people just refuse to give any good thoughts or praise to newer things. I prefer a lot of new JRPG versus older ones with the exception of Final Fantasy. I prefer old FF over newer ones. A lot of other genres as well I prefer newer games in a lot of franchises. I prefer new Pokemon now versus older Pokemon.

[@Y-two-K]

Who are you to make that judgment though? How do you know they’re just not allowing themselves to enjoy new things instead of just legitimately not enjoying them? Are you sure it’s really a lot of people and not a vocal minority?

[@DJK1NGGaming]

@@Y-two-K where did I say anything about making judgement or judging anyone? This is what I see online all the time. People claiming they will never pick a newer game over a older game which them lying to themselves or that older games are always better when that is not the case for a lot of franchises.

[@dangerousshoes]

Octopath 2 is INCREDIBLE. One of the best JRPGs I've played and i don't see enough people talk about it, unfortunately.

[@themeangene]

With the exception of Elden Ring and Resident Evil I've not been drawn to replay any games from the last 4 years. Replayability outside of competitive online games is such a lost art in the AAA space. I even prefer the replayability of 360 era games - a generation I didn't appreciate until afterwards

[@Zoeila]

Its not assumptions we as people speak with more than just words and what we speak without words is far louder

[@Emperor-Soul]

Yeah.. I’m going to send this video to every FF7 glazer that I know.