I haven't thrown one myself but yeah the ball motion looked really good for a league transition ball or a midway-through-a-tournament ball

Thank you so much! And yes, they'll never make a 3-D Offset I won't want to at least try out :) I'm really hoping they continue using the core because the ball motion is the perfect middle ground between Symmetric and Asymmetric.

I know it's overflaring when the ball hits the backend and it's still flaring instead of actually changing direction. By then I need the ball to reach a point of stability and roll up. If it's still flaring, it's still "unstable" and isn't going to give me the power I need.

CG position is irrelevant now. It's not the 1980's anymore. Static Weights have 0% contribution to ball reaction.

That's a mean arsenal, good luck out there! :)

@@wms702 The HK22 + Cohesion cover will make the new Mania much cleaner and much more responsive to friction than the red legend, so more length and backend snap.

@ That’s exactly what I was wondering because for me, the Red Legend wasn’t very clean though the front and mid-lane for being a pearl.

@@wms702 the Mania definitely is *very* clean

@rich2376 Messengers have always been known for being the most "bang for your buck" that you could get. That's why they were so popular in the 90's. They are not the strongest ball on the market but they always have a decent amount of hook and hitting power for sure.

@bigd8812 completely fresh, not one shot thrown on the lane (I warned up on the other lane). It could be. It probably hooks a little less than the 3.0 overall and will likely go longer, but I feel the Assault will be more versatile.

@shkrzfyi i do a comparison with the Effect in this video so you can see the differences and how the Effect is a little less dynamic, in my opinion. I don't think this Widow will overlap much with the 2.0 Hybrid or the 3.0 (the other comparison i do in this video). The 2.0 Hybrid is a little earlier and smoother than the Mania, and the 3.0 is a much different ball because of the dull solid surface.

Thank you so much! I've already pre-ordered the Mania and can't wait for it to be drilled.

@@shkrzfyi you're welcome!

For me the Widow 2.0 Hybrid was definitely noticeably earlier and smoother off the spot. I don't still have it or I'd have done a side by side comparison. Just going by my memory of the reaction it gave me.

@@JeffTeachesBowling Thank you much maybe you can compare the Mania to something similar! 😃🌴

Sweet!

Yes. Yes it does. 🤣

Absolutely, this ball hits the dry and comes off it hard. They complement each other well.

I picked me also! haha ONE FOR THE OLD DUDES LETS GOOOO!

Thanks very much for the kind words, glad you liked it! Strikers has been an awesome place to bowl leagues and tournaments and to do these videos!

@BowlingBuckosh Thank you, sir! Glad you liked it 😁

Yes that's correct, never thrown one shot until this video. The first shot in the video was the first shot I ever threw with the ball, and as you can see the video wasn't cut or edited, so you got to see all of the shots i threw.

Gone be? Already is. Not comin out. 🤣😂🤣

The blue one is the 3-D Offset Attack. It's a pearl version with a bit weaker cover than this new Assault. It's the one I throw in the video at the end of the ball comparisons.

The Pure Envy is going to be a bit sharper off the spot and straighten out more in the back due to the stronger core and higher Intermediate Differential. It may hook a little more overall , too, but that might be a bowler-to-bowler thing depending on who's throwing it and on what lane conditions.

My guess is that this ball will be a bit more responsive off the dry than the Theorem because of the Cohesion cover, but I've been wondering the same thing as you. I might bust out my Theorem in league this week and throw it a couple shots in practice to compare them.

I could absolutely see that - the 2.0 Hybrid isn't as flippy off the spot as the Mania. The Hybrid cover smooths the reaction out a little bit and gets it to see the lane a little earlier.

Thanks so very much ​@@JeffTeachesBowling

You're welcome and thank you, this ball is definitely one that can fill a spot in your bag if you don't have a hybrid yet!

Thanks!

@@gregorywilson-parker1619 425-450 rpm

Thanks very much, I appreciate it! I decided to go with a lower VAL angle and a bit shorter pin distance than I normally would use just because the core of the ball is a bit weaker, and with my ball speed I was afraid the ball might be a bit too mellow. Larger VAL angles kill the ball reaction for me. This is fine on a big-reacting ball with a very powerful core. But on a ball with a bit weaker core, it's overkill. Plus the earlier hook from the increased flare also works well with my speed. How has it worked? I'm still using the same Envy Tour almost 2 years later. It's got over 200 games on it by now and I've never had to rejuvenate the oil out of it. I just keep the surface clean and fresh whenever I bowl an event and the ball still works great. Check out my Hammer Effect Tour Video from a few weeks ago and you can see it in action when I do the ball comparison - the same Envy Tour I did this video with!

@@JeffTeachesBowling Thanks for the in-depth explanation! Sounds like a great option for lower differential cores. I struggle with getting hook on longer, heavier oil patterns like Shark, Weber, or Hardwick. In addition to more surface and slower ball speed, would this kind of layout help on a stronger core ball? I feel like I need help to get the ball to read sooner AND hook at the end of the pattern. What's your surface and layout strategy for long patterns? Maybe a topic for a whole video!

@@larryroberts6614 I used to be really good on longer patterns when lane surfaces were wood, or older synthetics, because I could still get the ball to pick up a little bit. On newer surfaces, I have to work hard at slowing down. That said, the earliest hooking ball is often the slowest hooking ball, and on long patterns, a slow hooking ball won't turn over in time. The faster ball is often much better. So a ball like the Envy Tour might pick up, but might not hook enough. I'd get something with a much stronger core and a big hooking surface, but also that might have a bit higher RG to help with some length and saving some energy for the backend. I've been using the Track Criterion for it and it's been great for me.

@@JeffTeachesBowling You described the dilemma well. What would you recommend with layout? Thanks again!

@@codyjames1158 pin down makes balls flare less, so they go longer and hook less and smoother. No offense but it sounds like it’s doing exactly what it was laid out to do.

None taken. Didn't do pin up because we thought it might be too much for where I bowl. Changed the surface to 1000 and it hooks more now and gets to the pocket nice and smooth.

@@codyjames1158it does a very good job at going the length. Redrill that ball and enjoy the shit out of it like I am

Yes it is, see the correction I made in the comment section. I was provided incorrect information.

It's much more versatile by a long shot!

The Theorem Pearl definitely revs up a lot

The Theorem has the type of Asymmetric core that works with my Low Track, it's known as a P.S.A. Mb, (Preferential Spin Axis)!

After throwing both, I feel like the Real Time is a bit earlier and smoother, and a bit more hook overall, but I think these two are both the types of balls where it might vary a bit depending on who's throwing them, the lane conditions, etc. They're close.

@daniellenart1729 You're welcome. I'm loving this ball so far. Just shot 777 in league with it tonight, just kept moving left all night, ball comes back from everywhere and never lost hitting power.

Touch the surface of the gb4 with 3000 just to break the shine and you'll see a completely different ball

@Doza418 I'll see if i can put something together, in the meantime i posted a couple of shots on the Track Bowling group on Facebook

$450? It's half that

@JeffTeachesBowling I have only seen them for like $350 + shipping...then getting it drilled...where u finding it for $250 ???

It's $197 on Amazon. Where the hell are you looking lol