Rounding up 2024, Tabletop Games.
43:47
Unboxing Our Book!
2:06
Ай бұрын
Hidden Movement! Finally!
31:27
How many rules are too many rules?
30:39
Battle Report for Dulce Et...
33:38
Пікірлер
@rosshempsall1985
@rosshempsall1985 Күн бұрын
I'd like to talk about books I've read this year.Unfortunately I've not been able the book you wrote because it hasn't bloody arrived despite being ordered at the beginning of December
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Күн бұрын
That sucks, generally they seem very good with delivery.
@grimskald
@grimskald 2 күн бұрын
There is a whole market of weekend gamers that play one off experiences and chop and change. I think that audience is under supported, and they are exhausted by lifestyle games. I dont know if there are enough to make a financially viable business, but there's only one way to find out. Also don't underestimate the impact of the 1000 true fans idea - they can be fans of you, not necessarily your game, and will buy anything you put out.
@colinmoore3196
@colinmoore3196 3 күн бұрын
My favorite new-to-me miniature game I played this year was The Drowned Earth.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 3 күн бұрын
Cool, I really like the cinematic feel of The Drowned Earth.
@finlayrobertson1355
@finlayrobertson1355 3 күн бұрын
I would have liked to hear some of the RPG books Mike has read this year, and if you like I have a challenge for you: Read The Burning Wheel RPG and try to figure out how and why it functions without playing it.
@gav-gf7cr
@gav-gf7cr 4 күн бұрын
I guess that would be Bruce Pandolfini's Ultimate Guide to Chess, and David Brine Pritchard's The Encyclopedia of Chess Variants as they further convinced me (after Flagstone) there's really a lot you can do with miniatures on a chess board, or any type of grid, and that I may actually prefer that to free form movement. I also got your game design book but I still have to get started on it.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 3 күн бұрын
Cool. I consider grid based movement a terrible heresy, but I imagine Mike would find it interesting.
@Ched80
@Ched80 4 күн бұрын
I really like the idea of small games as songs. I think they end up being more accessible. I think there is a demand for short punchy games, for sure some will do better than others, but I think your name will add significant weight to them. Plus you might stumble upon another goldmine by producing more diverse games.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 3 күн бұрын
Yeah, its tricky because short games can be fun to design, but hard to make profit from as hard copies.
@jesseshaffer9234
@jesseshaffer9234 4 күн бұрын
I would totally buy a Gaslands splatbook. Heck, if it had been out in October, I would have bought a copy for myself and five more as Christmas gifts. It’s shame Mike is too cool for money. Where I come from, tuition isn’t cheap and cows are for milking. Happy holidays to everyone.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 3 күн бұрын
Yeah, I think it would be pretty cool, unfortunately there are IP issues with Gaslands.
@gav-gf7cr
@gav-gf7cr 3 күн бұрын
I think I'd buy the first, maybe the second, and then drop off. At least that seems to be the pattern with me. There's a feeling of diminishing return in "more of the same" as well as just "too much", and also that it can ruin a game mechanically by the need to have cool exciting abilities for new faction/character/unit, at some point it can just break things. And I hate expanded universes, the bigger they get, the more claustrophobic I feel 😆
@nickculpin
@nickculpin 4 күн бұрын
Really solid episode. Perhaps your “voice” is more important than IP consistency. Drawing a parallel to fiction novelists. The middle ground could be a trilogy or limited series by design.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 3 күн бұрын
Possibly. Its tricky because often the attraction to a new design is a very different mechanical system. I had a fan turn up at our stand at UKGE because they enjoyed my Moonflight game to ask if I had anything else similar and I was forced to say no, not really.
@Farmers-Almanac
@Farmers-Almanac 4 күн бұрын
yay!
@treydog999
@treydog999 5 күн бұрын
i have been using this template as an idea on how to teach myself the game since no one in my area plays. going to give it a try tonight. 1v1 with 2 simple cars makes sense
@NikButler
@NikButler 5 күн бұрын
Speaking as toxophilite I want to point out its called Archery because its latin for Bow.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 5 күн бұрын
Is something being Arch shaped and Bow shaped not the same thing?
@NikButler
@NikButler 5 күн бұрын
@@RuleofCarnage thats a stretch of the etymology here but the roots/origins are different enough to point different namespaces. Bows have various designs and shapes historically as well , not including the compound which for me has always been weird to use but then long bow, recurve , yumi, cross all look different . Firing a arrow in a long Arc ( Arc - archery ) feels more like what you might say with Arch but its one of those things that close but no relation.
@rpgfluency
@rpgfluency 7 күн бұрын
Some rules exist purely as a editing/cleanliness choice. An example you give of "discard cards facedown" exists b/c there's a non-zero chance players ask "What face do cards get discarded?" and its some peirs opinion its a little cleaner just to give a face. Also, little comment on the gaslands template, out group debated allowing the "anywhere from the wheels to the front of the car" in order to increase some maneuverability
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 7 күн бұрын
Feel free to house rule whatever works for you, but generally the main strength of templates is to have a sharp, clean, result.
@rpgfluency
@rpgfluency 7 күн бұрын
I wish the re-roll rule was replaced with "you choose the result" in a lot of cases
@gav-gf7cr
@gav-gf7cr 11 күн бұрын
I played some Trench Crusade, which I liked and made me kitbash a warband and back the kickstarter. I'll play this again. But I'm a bit worried the success of that kickstarter will ruin it by creating pressure on the designers to come up with new stuff all the time. The "living rulebook" approach doesn't inspire much confidence there either 🙂
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 10 күн бұрын
Yeah, hopefully they can keep a reign on things, they've been building it for a while now so they might have a roadplan in place.
@gav-gf7cr
@gav-gf7cr 11 күн бұрын
maybe miniature campaign games should have a session 0 to build warbands & stuff together, like it is done in RPGs.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 10 күн бұрын
Probably, I think generally campaign games suffer from the campaign bit being a short session before and after the 'real' game.
@gav-gf7cr
@gav-gf7cr 10 күн бұрын
@@RuleofCarnage Might be interesting to try split sessions, half table top battle, and half campaign level stuff (not ncessarily in that order). Not going to fit with every type of campaign, but maybe it works for one where players also manage domains and have diplomatic goings on.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 10 күн бұрын
@@gav-gf7cr Possibly, I think the tricky thing there is that a sessions worth of campaign play will tend to include many of what would need to be tabletop battles such that the tabletop battles end up seeming quite insignificant. One issue is that campaign sections often include a considerable amount of randomness meaning that they can't be done solo, I'm currently experimenting with making the campaign sessions chanceless so they can be part of an entirely solo process.
@gav-gf7cr
@gav-gf7cr 8 күн бұрын
@@RuleofCarnage yeah, probably only works in a kind of campaign-in-a-day setup where you can alternate (short) battles with campaign action. Like in the old DBA & HOTT rules. Interesting idea to make the campaign bit chanceless!
@sethcunningham1478
@sethcunningham1478 13 күн бұрын
3 years later, and you've finally done it! Congratulations on the rulebook! It's just funny that it was just a joke 3 years ago. 😂
@Ched80
@Ched80 16 күн бұрын
This year was the year I took my first steps into miniatures games so played slightly less tabletop games than I normally do. Standout winners for me were Hideous Abomination and Ancient Terrible Things Reawakened. The latter is cheating a bit because that was just an updated version of an existing game, but I felt the rules had been tweaked enough for it to feel like a different and much better game. Much more tension and felt much more immersive. And Hideous Abomination is just an utter joy to play where you make weird monsters from hundreds of creature parts. The worst; how long have you got? But top of the list would be Expeditions (the Scythe sequel). I think being the sequel to Scythe killed it from the start and (for me) didn't immerse you in that 1920+ world enough. Wyrmspan, only because it was just a reskin of a good game and didn't really do enough different. So not really a bad game, but just a bit sinical to me. I wasn't blown away by Andromeda's Edge, as I felt like it was too much like Gaia Project (but not as good).
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 16 күн бұрын
I have very mixed feelings about the Stonemaier output, it really feels like they've dropped a long way from what was a real high a few years ago.
@goofy2792
@goofy2792 16 күн бұрын
as for dissapointing: i didnt like legends of Andor. i even painted minis for it, but once we got to play it, it was too linear and bland. We re switching to rangers of shadowdeep probably for some co-op.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 16 күн бұрын
Rangers of Shadowdeep is a pretty solid co-op, I really have to get back to it.
@gav-gf7cr
@gav-gf7cr 17 күн бұрын
strangely... chess! 🤣 I've played it as a kid a bit, like one does monopoly and risk, and then dropped it when I discovered RPGs and miniature games, but now Mike's Chess28 has really brought it back in focus. There's so much to chess and what you can do with it while still retaining chessyness, I've been not only experimenting with making it more miniature wargamey in the Chess28 sense but also looking into the enormous variety of chess variants and reading up on chess strategy & tactics. Still don't enjoy the complete abscence of chance so I'll never be a real chess player, but other than that it's a fantastically inspiring game and I'm happy to have rediscovered it.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 17 күн бұрын
Cool, nice that Chess28 has helped do some inspiring.
@ruckdog
@ruckdog 18 күн бұрын
Fun discussion! I’ve been pondering some of these ideas lately myself as I’ve been working on a campaign system based off Warlord’s Combined Arms that can tie together Legions Imperialis, Aeronautica Imperialis, and BFG.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 17 күн бұрын
Puts me in mind of a childhood Mighty Empires/Man O War/WHFB campaign of mine that I think is still set up in a barn somewhere.
@robertlloyd9654
@robertlloyd9654 19 күн бұрын
I like the fact it won't need miniatures, the idea of having to get enough miniatures to fight Pacific battles is too daunting, and you can't really fight carrier V carrier battles with miniatures because they're just too big, even at 1/6000 scale
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 19 күн бұрын
Yeah, the scale issue very much drove a lot of Mike's choice to use poker chips over minis.
@skazdal
@skazdal 20 күн бұрын
I'll undo the whole blue color from Magic, THEN I might come back to it 😅
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 19 күн бұрын
Control generally I think is a quite divisive mechanic, anything I think which makes the game about stopping the other person playing is a tough thing to get right.
@nerzenjaeger
@nerzenjaeger 20 күн бұрын
Been subscribed for a good while and bought the book (of course).
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 20 күн бұрын
Very many thanks, I hope it provides a good deal of inspiration.
@tritarch6687
@tritarch6687 20 күн бұрын
'I Aint Been Shot Mum' has a rather clunky way of doing it with blinder templates which move at an arbitrary distance so you cannot tell if it's infantry, tanks or a decoy until you can spot it.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 20 күн бұрын
Not instantly aware of that one, but I'm guessing from the title that its a Two Fat Lardies game?
@tritarch6687
@tritarch6687 20 күн бұрын
@@RuleofCarnage Correct. There is another game called 'Charlie Dont Surf' which is of course Vietnam rendition of IABSM with similar blinds and hidden info shenanigans. Unstoppable Carl in the discord has a very simple blip system from his Downsync game that you ought to look into.
@NodnarbBrando
@NodnarbBrando 22 күн бұрын
This book is on my list for xmas gifts for myself. Going through Priestleys book now.
@Ched80
@Ched80 23 күн бұрын
Cheers for the links for the game generator. I think I saw it during the OBWG challenge and it helped me figure out some wording for my ruleset. On another note. The game 504 is one of the closest things I've seen to a random board game generator. It randomly mixes 3 different game mechanics from a selection of 9 (pick up and deliver, conflict, stock market, etc.) and automatically creates a set of rules for the game. It's utterly bonkers and worth a look just for the sheer madness of it.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 23 күн бұрын
Yeah, 504 is one of those games that I always pick up in the FLGS but never quite drop the hammer on buying.
@mikek6298
@mikek6298 24 күн бұрын
Alright, fine. I bought the book. Looking forward to it. Sounds like it'll be a great reference
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 24 күн бұрын
That's what we were waiting for, we'll stop now.
@radiumminis
@radiumminis 27 күн бұрын
Premeasuring for me is a must in a modern game. After years of cabinetry, I am so much better at guessing distance then alot of my opponents. It feels weird to have a skill element give me an advantage in a tabletop game. I know I can place my models with a 1/4 inch out from your threat, baiting people into bad decisions. Feels like a skill check that people shouldn't need to pass.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 27 күн бұрын
I think the other option is things like random movement distances to potentially make the whole measuring debate meaningless.
@paddymick4627
@paddymick4627 29 күн бұрын
I hardly understood any of that but it all sounds fascinating so i've ordered the book. I read Rick's book on the subject which was very enjoyable, but i'll assume yours has less references to tea, curry and last orders.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage 29 күн бұрын
I don't remember mentioning tea or curry, though it can be hard to be certain.
@jesseshaffer9234
@jesseshaffer9234 29 күн бұрын
As an American, I believe there should be a shooting phase within every phase of a game.
@jesseshaffer9234
@jesseshaffer9234 29 күн бұрын
The single best reason to use a grid system is its ease in implementing a double blind stealth system.
@Artmesa
@Artmesa Ай бұрын
Have you guys read the full rulebook for any of the One Page Rules games? I think it's the best example of a terse yet complete explanation of a ruleset.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
I do remember reading over one of their rulesets, I wondered at the time how much of the learning weight they actually put on GW's games in a way.
@gekalskip
@gekalskip Ай бұрын
well done guys, you can be proud of yourselves
@insomnolant6043
@insomnolant6043 Ай бұрын
I have no idea what "campaign system" means to you, and you didn't explain it in the video.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
We go into that a bit more in depth here kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZyzlH2hZ5lnqaM and here kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqOvood4aqp4nZY
@radiumminis
@radiumminis Ай бұрын
Just got mine in the mail. So nice!!
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
Excellent, thanks for the support.
@bjscustoms
@bjscustoms Ай бұрын
Fantastic video I love the Tips brother.
@Farmers-Almanac
@Farmers-Almanac Ай бұрын
im definitely getting the book soon
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
Glad to hear it.
@toddzircher6168
@toddzircher6168 Ай бұрын
Just curious, does this book address solo game development?
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
Sadly Solo games was a chapter that had to wait until the second book.
@toddzircher6168
@toddzircher6168 Ай бұрын
@@RuleofCarnage Good to know that it is in the pipeline.
@saltfreegamer
@saltfreegamer Ай бұрын
Hi guys. My copy arrived this week! Cool! Quick question: Am I somehow looking past the "foreword by Gav Thorpe"? My copy goes straight to the introduction, without any preamble. 🤔
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
Unfortunately it looks like a few of the first run of prints lost some of the preamble section. You can read them here: planetsmashergames.com/design-blog/gav-thorpe-on-the-fundamentals-of-miniatures-game-design/ or contact CRC.
@patknez
@patknez Ай бұрын
The book is on my Christmas list. Looking forward to reading it in full. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with regards to miniature games.
@christinebeckett7060
@christinebeckett7060 Ай бұрын
I bought theTOW rules and the two books a few months ago. But having read through them extensively, played a few solo table-top tests to check out the systems, and watched scores of KZbin games, I know it's not for me. I'll stick with 6th and 7th editions because they work, and TOW doesn't. It has complexity where it's not needed, it's confusing where it needs clarity, and it has way too many loopholes with which to entice the power-players out there. It has the appearance of a rule set that was designed by a committee that had never actually played WHFB, but had merely read the old rule books and picked out the bits they thought were coolest. It's badly in need of a revision. None of this bothers me. I am happy to carry on playing Oldhammer because I have no interest in buying into the GW scene again. I do however welcome the re-release of some of the charming old sculpts, and have bought a fair few. But I won't be playing TOW, not because I am an elitist Luddite, but because the rules are pants.
@dapperdave42
@dapperdave42 Ай бұрын
I think miniatures can play an important part of helping with readability. If I see a giant with an axe and a unit of small archers, there's a quick intuitive reminder of how those units (probably) behave. Of course if you're not using that space then that could be an example of a game with "pasted on" theme. Also, the theme of a game does a lot of work conveying what kind of fantasy a player is in store for after they crack open the book.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
Its tricky because minis can absolutely communicate tons of worthwhile state to players, but requiring that they do so can constrain player creativity in hobby.
@ShipwreckedwithCaptainMarrow
@ShipwreckedwithCaptainMarrow Ай бұрын
Personally I'm a massive fan of critical hit effects and charts, as a person who came into miniature wargaming from D&D around 2011. Bonus damage was always good in D&D, and critical effects always seemed lackluster as a replacement - but if your attack does bonus damage AND something cool, that was the best. As a tabletop RPG person going into it, it was so exciting that your attack was so extravagant and successful you had to say "wait a sec, lets check the book" and searched up the table. The suspense of what was about to happen to your or your opponent's model during is great. And I believe that narratively, its so much more fun for my model to have his legs blown off and for him to only be able to crawl 1" per activation than for him to have received 2 extra damage and or possibly died. I'll forget that time you killed my orc, I'll remember that time he lost his legs and spent 7 turns just crawling to get into place.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
Sure, at the same time, looking up results once or twice during encounters because a handful of combatants are rolling a few dice with often many faces isn't too onerous. When there are possibly hundreds of models rolling buckets of d6 it can be a bit of a drag. Fundamentally, the larger the scope of the game, the more grunts there are where detailing their demise is more about slow down than narrative.
@ShipwreckedwithCaptainMarrow
@ShipwreckedwithCaptainMarrow Ай бұрын
@@RuleofCarnage Absolutely a fair point! I suppose that it should be mentioned that in my noted experiences that I'm referring to more Skirmish style games with low model counts, numbering about 3-7 per side, not "wargame" with units and such. Big difference!
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
@@ShipwreckedwithCaptainMarrow Yeah, as the model count goes down the detail of what's happening to them can go up. Still, I do think its important for the guy with his legs chopped off to have somewhere to go to build the tension on him crawling around.
@finlayrobertson1355
@finlayrobertson1355 Ай бұрын
So if you design something it needs to be innovative and interesting. I have an idea for a game based on a computer game franchise with mechs and infantry, however that is a very saturated space within the hobby. Additionally all my mechanical ideas are at best iterative of other miniature games and I don't have the noust to create truly new designs within a space that so many things have already been done. I think it's best I don't pursue it
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
To be honest, I think if you're considering designing in a saturated area and you don't believe you have something new to add, it might be best to wait until something more unique occurs to you.
@dapperdave42
@dapperdave42 Ай бұрын
I feel like the "reroll, but let the first roll stand" option would generally get condensed to "roll 2, pick highest" - which I think I've seen examples of. Maybe there's a more general idea at play here? Like the use of discarded results or something.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
Well, roll 2 and pick the highest generally refers to a choice taken before the roll, which would make it a bit different due to the gating process of opting to use the re-roll since presumably you'd never use it if you rolled the top result possible on the first dice, and certainly if it was based on a limited resource it would be very different. Mostly I think it just opens up more of a decision space on granular success levels for multi sided dice. Like, if its a fail/succeed d6, its pretty pointless, but if its "each point you roll over the target causes a point of damage" on a d20, then making re-rolling a low success worthwhile could be interesting.
@najkraemer3117
@najkraemer3117 Ай бұрын
Do you have another video for November?
@richardhogg2600
@richardhogg2600 Ай бұрын
I don’t recall ever hearing the word diegetic. I was non-diegetic until this morning…😊 great to hear these discussions.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
Generally it turns up in film analysis, though its been popping up more and more in video game design in relation to things like diegetic UI.
@Ched80
@Ched80 Ай бұрын
Jumping on the non-discrete damage. Sand timers are really good for this. The board game Kero has a fantastic sand timer system where you roll dice with a sand timer and you stop rolling whenever you want, but you're trying to roll specific symbols on the dice before the timer runs out. You could apply this as where the defender tries to roll saves while the sand timer drains. So the longer you take to save, the more damage you take.
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
I often want to put timers into minis games, but they're a tough component to require for people to seek out, especially at specific grades.
@Ched80
@Ched80 Ай бұрын
@RuleofCarnage yeah and they tend to have wide tolerances in the target time. Saying that Space Hulk has one. I think you can probably get away with one per player, but going beyond that is going to be a tall barrier to the game.
@Banshun
@Banshun Ай бұрын
Already pre-order guys. Looking forward to getting the book in Japan.
@HoneyCMB
@HoneyCMB Ай бұрын
Preordered and stoked to read! Really glad y'all are more than willing to share your knowledge and expertise, whether freely available here or in a more formalized book format <3
@RuleofCarnage
@RuleofCarnage Ай бұрын
I really think that generally this is an area where most people are pretty generous with their time and knowledge.