Hidden Movement! Finally!

[@tritarch6687]

'I Aint Been Shot Mum' has a rather clunky way of doing it with blinder templates which move at an arbitrary distance so you cannot tell if it's infantry, tanks or a decoy until you can spot it.

[@RuleofCarnage]

Not instantly aware of that one, but I'm guessing from the title that its a Two Fat Lardies game?

[@tritarch6687]

@@RuleofCarnage Correct. There is another game called 'Charlie Dont Surf' which is of course Vietnam rendition of IABSM with similar blinds and hidden info shenanigans. Unstoppable Carl in the discord has a very simple blip system from his Downsync game that you ought to look into.

[@jonathansmith3674]

The pacific command shell game sounds really fun and I like the mechanism for not knowing what your opponent has discovered. Some games benefit from actual hidden movement where you need to know that you started at A and ended at B - often games where you’re trying to escape something or maybe escort something etc. Pacific Command sounds like it’s in this category. In a lot of games though the thing that’s most interesting is what happens at point B where a unit is revealed, usually to start attacking you. In these games the fact you came from point A isn’t that important. It’s more like surprise deployment from a general nebulous hidden state off table. So I think you can often do away with the movement part of hidden movement and have a way to ambush or deploy in a surprising way and you hand wave away the fact some unseen and unplayed movement got it there.

[@RuleofCarnage]

The thing is, what's important about hidden movement is the ability of others to discover the hidden thing, the seek of the hide and seek quality. The issue with discrete hidden movement is that it results in discrete seeking, which while its interesting and fun, its more about bluffing than hiding. Its the difference between hiding a penny in one of your hands for someone to find or somewhere in your house.

[@jonathansmith3674]

⁠@@RuleofCarnageI agree, if the movement matters (as in knowing the start and end position) then the seeking is important. Submarine hunting or something like that. But I don’t think seeking is always required. For a dug-in camouflaged anti tank gun it’s totally ok to not have a way of seeking it out at all and only having it be revealed by the owning player. That’s still fun, impactful and realistic in its context. Or Mohawks attacking the redcoats out of the forest. You can make them being unseekable and invisible until they reveal themselves all part of the game. The fact they obviously are actually moving around the forest isn’t necessarily important if you lean into the idea that the only thing that matters is when they appear, now how they did it. Hope that makes sense.

[@jonathansmith3674]

Obviously you can argue “well that’s not actually hidden movement at all then, it’s something else” which is totally true, I just mean there’s a choice to think about whether you need to implement the process of hidden movement to get to the outcome you want or not.

[@RuleofCarnage]

@@jonathansmith3674 Oh, totally, clearly hidden movement isn't appropriate to all situations or the solution for all problems. The question is more, if it is appropriate, can it be done, and if so, how?

[@ruckandmaul5018]

Take a look at "O Group" WW2 rules and the use of Combat Patrol markers that permit reserve troop deployments directly onto the table top.

[@SPACENOMADMALEV]

Wow, Shinobi Assassin!? I wonder if anyone is making a game like that on a small grid play area.

[@RuleofCarnage]

Probably. I think I'd like to see it on a large surface though.

[@Ched80]

My OBWG entry was originally going to have hidden movement and drew heavily on Space Hulk for said element, but i struggled to make it work. Mainly i struggled for it to ve fun and when i removed it and reverted to public knowledge of unit locations, the game worked better. I think for me, hidden movement was a nostalgic element from playing Space Crusade in my tweens, and ive enjoyed Scotland yard. I just wonder whether the mechanic really adds enough fun for the effort it needs.

[@RuleofCarnage]

Its another of those mechanics that needs to have the game built around it. I think it can work, but its really tricky.

[@jeux1d100]

I made custom rules for a mech games years ago, with infantry and tanks too, and i wanted a "radar" with blips, like in Alien. So i made it you place tokens instead of units, and the name of the unit is written under the token. The tokens are revealed only later when a spotter actually sees them, or has a perfect radar hit, etc. It’s not really hidden move, but it was a nice feel not to be sure what is coming.

[@RuleofCarnage]

Yeah, blips are a solid solution to hiding a level of information.

[@colinmacmillan2944]

Two Hour Wargames do this - the use of Possible Enemy Forces - they move according to set of rules until they reveal themselves by being in line of sight, open fire ... sometimes they're not there at all.

[@MrLigonater]

So this isn’t truely a hidden movement mechanic, but it is an idea that is related to hidden movement and fog of war that I think would be interesting to explore. So in a lot of different types of warfare, the main army or fleet is surrounded by a bunch of scouts or piquets. Those scouts likely run into each other all the time so each side has an idea of the closest the enemy could be. Then those scouts fight each other to get better positions and keep the enemy from discovering their own main army. So I like the idea of each player having tokens or scout units across the board that is their screen line. Then they get to manoeuvre their screen line and there should be some interesting interactivity between them. I imagine a rule where you can deploy your army anywhere behind your screen line. So the Fog of War becomes a type of minigame That is an out increasing your deployment zone and constraining your enemies. (I think this could also make artillery a little more interesting. Your enemy can’t hit your units with indirect fire until they are revealed. So if you do a good job and make your enemy have t deploy further away from the objective that means you can shell the for longer. But if the enemy’s is clever, and pushes the screen way up the board then they would not be bombarded for as long.)

[@RuleofCarnage]

Yeah, its tricky because anything that front loads play and slows down getting to the action is hard to justify. I have seen a game doing something like this in the discord, and I think its a really interesting choice, but I'm not sure how it would play on the tabletop.

[@jonathansmith3674]

I like this idea and if it can be made part of the setup phase I think it’s a great concept. Clash of Spears and Chain of Command both have something similar where you move your blips around during deployment and lock down areas the other player then can’t deploy into.

[@radiumminis]

True hidden movement in a minis game isn't that interesting. Oscured movements sounds way more fun. The shell game version of hiding units is a much more fun bluffing game without being all consuming.

[@madluper]

First!