@@nicolas31141 Hi there, yes, you can use them on tarmac as well and thanks to Pebax foam they are pretty quick. Comfort is great as the toebox is a bit wider and they are less stiff than the Peregrine (therefore less reactive, also because of the different stack). If it's wet/rainy though, the kerb (edge of the pavement) becomes slippery as soap. I guess that on rocky wet surfaces may be slippery as well. I haven't had any problem on gravel and grass as traction was very good on these surfaces.

Funnily, bed test for me were the "basic" EVA midsole foam Saucony Ride 15 (19m:33s). Well, Mizuno Wave Rebellion Pro did it in 19m:51s. Puma Deviate Nitro Elite in 18m:44s. As you stated, you are a midfoot striker, therefore you can get the best from the Rebellion Pro. Kindly, send me the link of your video, doing your 5x1k with 2 min of rest, at the running track. You can use any app (Sportstracker, Strava, etc., etc.) to track down your performance.

Se posso esprimere la mia opinione (che poi ho visto viene condivisa da altri testers), questa é una scarpa indicata per chi corre più di mesopiede (midfoot) rispetto all'avampiede (forefoot). Questo era il settimo paio di scarpe con suola in Peba/Pebax e piastra in carbonio che ho testato in pista, e con le altre scarpe non ho avuto alcun problema di adattamento. Il fatto che mi sia trovato a pensare come effettuavo l'appoggio, per assecondare la scarpa, non mi ha entusiasmato per niente. Penso sempre che sia la scarpa che debba adattarsi all'atleta e non viceversa. Come dicevo, la mia, é un'opinione personale espressa dopo "soli" 26 anni di corsa.

@@gpersonaltrainer certo che puoi esprimere la tua opinione (specie sul tuo canale, ci mancherebbe!); quello che però forse non sono riuscito ad esprimere correttamente è il concetto che spesso siamo prevenuti e ci aspettiamo un certo tipo di comportamento dai materiali e dalle attrezzature, come ad esempio le scarpe con placca in carbonio: ci aspettiamo una netta sensazione di rimbalzo, e quindi cerchiamo di sfruttare questo comportamento accentuando il gesto di spinta degli avampiedi, ottenendo quel guadagno di diversi cm o mm sulla nostra falcata; questo modello invece funziona in modo leggermente diverso: c'è una risposta elastica, che come giustamente puntualizzi, e come io facevo osservare, è localizzata più sul mesopiede, ma il vero guadagno non è tanto in termini di cm o di mm sulla falcata (che comunque c'è), ma è soprattutto in termini di transizione veloce mesopiede/avampiede. Detto questo, la velocità è il rapporto spazio/tempo e quindi per aumentarla o aumentiamo lo spazio percorso nell'unità di tempo o riduciamo il tempo impiegato nel percorrere lo spazio (meglio ancora entrambi). In sintesi, non è che dobbiamo imparare a correre in altro modo, (piuttosto sono le altre che ci spingono ad accentuare certi gesti, che però già mettiamo in conto) ma dobbiamo solo far scorrere le gambe in modo naturale, senza pestare; questo approccio è valido ancor di più sulle lunghe distanze, e ti faccio un esempio pratico: ho corso una mezza con le Alphafly, e fare parziali da 3'50" la prima parte di gara sembrava facile ma quando le energie sono diminuite mi sembrava di avere ai piedi degli zoccoli pescura (quelli di legno), così tutto quel vantaggio, senza benzina in corpo, rischia di diventare una zavorra; diversamente una scarpa che rende più scorrevole il gesto risulta vantaggiosa, e ancor di più, lungo tutta l'estensione della prestazione. Ovviamente queste sono le mie considerazioni personali, mutuate da 39 anni di attività tra mezzofondo e fondo (dagli 800m alla maratona ho corso di tutto). Grazie dell'attenzione.

Se non sbaglio, la frequenza di corsa ottimale che permette di percorrere la distanza nel minore tempo possibile, senza impattare troppo sulla muscolatura, dovrebbe essere di 180 falcate al minuto (che é poi anche la mia... falcata in piú, o in meno). Detto questo, ci sono corridori che hanno una frequenza piú alta. Ho una cliente minuta che corre a 4m:10s e che fa piú di 190 falcate al minuto. Ecco perché per esempio Asics ha creato 2 scarpe specifiche (Sky che appena potró, voglio testare and Edge). Personalmente, non comprerei mai le Edge perché snaturerebbero il mio modo di correre. Riguardo al commento sulle Alphafly, complimenti per il passo nella mezza maratona! Parlando delle sue AF devo presumere che si tratta della seconda versione che é piú grossa é pesante. Infatti, le AF1 pesano 238 grammi e le Wave Rebellion Pro 234. A parte il fatto che nelle AF1 la conformazione della suola é un po' difficile da "digerire" (il mesopiede rimane 3cm fuori dalla suola - il video é disponibile nel mio canale -, le Alphafly sono indicate per ogni tipo di appoggio, parlando di avampiede, mesopiede e tallone, mentre le Wave Rebellion Pro sono indicate per uno solo di questi. Mi chiedo perché Mizuno abbia creato una scarpa per le competizioni, che limita il numero di corridori che possono apprezzare questo modello fino in fondo. P.S. Ho utilizzato le scarpe della Mizuno per 4 anni, dal 1999 al 2003.

@@gpersonaltrainerIl modello di AF usato è il 1° ed effettivamente la sensazione di rimbalzo è proprio netta. il dato di 180 passi al minuto deriva dalla statistica, ed è ovvio che i brevilinei abbiano naturalmente frequenze maggiori. La questione è guadagnare quella frazione di passo o addirittura qualche passo, mantenendo o incrementando addirittura l'ampiezza. Il perché delle scelte di Mizuno bisognerebbe chiederlo a loro, magari è solo una fase di attesa e sperimentazione, vista anche l'inflazione di modelli, ma credo che abbiano usato qualche artificio per sollevare il tallone senza aumentare lo spessore della suola in quella zona (le norme WA sono rispettate ma se osserviamo la scarpa in prossimità del mesopiede lo spessore della suola eccede i limiti consentiti). D'altronde anche asics prima di uscire con le varie versioni di metaspeed è passata attraverso la metaride, che contava proprio sul velocizzare la transizione, senza nemmeno il vantaggio della placca elastica (ed era anche una scarpa pesante!). Però pare che in casa propria mizuno abbia molti più estimatori. Misteri del marketing. Buone corse!

I'm a forefoot runner and I haven't been able to understand in which part of my foot I had to land, in order to get the bet "rolling" feeling. I've tried even to change the way I was striding, landing more on my midfoot, without having the feeling I was going any faster. If you watch my other videos/tests, it never happened that I felt "forced" to change my gait. I believe these shoes are more suitable for a midfoot striker.

@@gpersonaltrainer Thanks. It would be funny indeed if they were intended for heel strikers since they are practically heel-less. Hope you continue the series, even including fast non carbon trainers.

@@saintsaens21 Sorry, I meant midfoot only. The ideal landing area is quite big, though.

Great! I paid £64 (81$) for my shoes. At this price you normally get a pair of daily trainer (with no plate) and EVA foam midsole instead of PEBA. Let me know how your test will go.

@@gpersonaltrainer Sure man! ill test them with a 10k run or maybe 21k! i paid $60 it. I was only expecting 15% off when i picked them up the racks. and to my surprise, on my way to cashier, it had like over 40% off discount. what a bargain it is!

The glue is not that strong. I've been able to remove the original insoles without ruining them. Eventually, if it's too sticky, you can use a hairdryer (not super hot and keeping at the right distance) to soften the glue.

Hi there, I'm a 9 UK (through most of the brands I've tested, so far - Saucony, Nike, Puma, Mizuno). These shoes are fitting a bit bigger compared to the normal size. I would say not a "whole" half size bigger, but a good 1/3 of it. Although, you don't feel it too much (I've already covered 100km).

I'm an overpronator which means I roll my foot (a lot more) inward during the stride. The larger insoles help me to avoid to rub the arch of my foot against the side of the upper (preventing blisters). If you have "flat feet" I would recommend to see a podiatrist in order to estabilish which type of insole/support you need.

Wearing the Ride 15 (from new), I've completed this workout in 19m:33s. Which was just 8 seconds slower on a 5K than the Vaporfly. I must admit, though, the responsivness will deteriorate exponentially with the use. I wonder why the Ride 17 switched to PWRRUN PLUS (aka PEBAX foam).

Pwrrn+ is TPU, not PEBA

​@@caseypetty4721You are all right, my mistake. I thought that the new model was using PWRRUN PB.

Pro 2 were 1 sec behind Vaporfly. Pro 3 are much faster (17 sec) and amongst all the carbon plated shoes I tested, they are my favourite (I've reached the 700 km marker wearing them).

Well, I used to be. 😂

There is the common belief that the carbon plate gives you the springy effect, instead, the PEBAX foam (with its 85% of energy return) "does the job". The carbon plate is inserted to stabilize the foam giving to the midsole a bit of rigidity and, after 500k (I'm now approaching the 600k marker), it's still very stiff.

Although the Deviate Nitro Elite are very versatile, breathable and light (you can watch my other video about them), I wouldn't use a pair of racing shoes for walking. The purpose of them is to make you running faster, therefore they are engineered to optimize the running gait, not the walking one.

Now I've hit 220km wearing the Deviate Nitro Elite and 360km wearing the Endorphin Pro 3, I can tell you this review is definitive, indeed! Despite the Puma are the fastest carbon plated shoes II've tested (so far) they cost less and, obviously, they don't last (in terms of speed and comfort) as much as the Saucony. At the end of the day the "old" saying you get what you pay for is absolutely true. Having said that, if tomorrow I would have to run a 10K aiming for a PB, a pair of brand new Deviate Nitro Elite will do the job, pretty easily.

Thanks! www.insolesgeek.com write Saucony in the search box. Choose the ones with 8mm arch. I'm going to tell you in advance that the product I've received was good (though I had to trim a bit the insoles), but the company doesn't have good feedbacks. The insoles are exactly the ones I had in the Ride 13 (8mm drop) and I've received them in 15 days, paying just $16.99. Therefore, personally, I was happy about the purchase.

If you have watched my video, pulling it gently, you can extract the insole in a minute. The glue is not that sticky.

Pro 2 are comfortable, durable (580km so far), decently fast and relatively cheap. In my humble opinion, one of the best shoes for racing ever made. The Vaporfly gave me blisters after a 10K! Soon, I'm going to run an half marathon wearing the slightly modified (please watch my video) Pro 3. Regarding the Alphafly, please check my last post. After testing them (bought used), I broke the midsole... after (allegedly) 53 miles!!! #junkafly

@@gpersonaltrainer Broke! Will do. Sole of Alpha and Vapor look similarly narrow to me, but yes flyknit is very comfortable/soft. Oh I said Pro 2, should have been 3! Although, I do own Pro 2, and really like them, my inclination was a bit more cushion might benefit me. Thanks for your suggestion!

@@jamesbenjamins Well, if you are looking for more cushioning, after a couple of mods (please watch my video), I can also tell you the Pro 3 are the perfect successor of the Pro 2.

2 min of rest between the 1K rep. Currently, I run mostly for work (5 times a week), therefore, I "race" just on client request. I believe my most recent 10K was around 41 minutes. In the past (10 years ago), my time was around 38 minutes. 20 years ago my time was much faster than that ;-)

@@gpersonaltrainer what age groups do those times span 20's to 40+ ? Very good running from young to middle age

@@craigtsmith6957 Regrettably, I'm much older, but training keeps me young... hopefully.

Well, let me say I run mostly for work (and nearly never at my pace). I train myself to pace and challenge my clients, doing more or less the same distance/volume I've done last year. I must admit though, my clients are getting faster. Anyway, I do the 5x1km test because it's quick (in terms of time) and it provides a "fair" indication for the pace i.e.3:55 vaporfly/pro 2 - 3:50 pro 3 - 3:45 deviate elite.

I forgot to mention that 2 weeks ago I've tested the Endorphin Pro 3 (the video is available). If it wasn't for the shoes, it would be difficult to be 5 sec faster per km, in just 15 days.

I do believe it's a marketing strategy. In this way you'll purchase different versions (that often come at a very good discounted price), but, at the same time, you'll automatically have a good set of shoes for the rotation, that will make your running experience better, spending more or less the same money. Obviously, I''m not talking about the new Endorphin Elite here, which cost an arm and a leg.

Pro Plus are great for short distances. Just be aware the stack is 35mm, instead of 39.5mm like in the Pro 3. This small difference, 4.5mm will put a bit more of strain on your Achille's heel. At the end of my test, I did another rep (1K) using my worn Pro 2 and I felt this thing after a few strides.

If you purchased the Pro +, have you tested them? If not, please take a look at the absolute bargain on the Puma Deviate Nitro Elite on sale, on StartFitness website. Those shoes are freaking fast and the current discounted price is the same of a pair of (discounted) daily trainers (aka Ride 15). Feel free to watch my video.

@@gpersonaltrainer I haven’t purchased the Pro + but the Nitro Elite sounds tempting!

Despite the fact the Ride 13 were on sale 3 years ago, they look like a pair of "old school" running shoes. In the last couple of years Saucony has been able to shorten the gap between its own carbon plated shoes (and the other ones), creating relatively fast daily trainers, even without using PEBAX foam. Feel free to check my video about the Ride 15... they are just 7/8 seconds slower than Pro 2 and Vaporfly. I believe the current technological improvement will give us running shoes a lot faster than the ones we used in the past, at literally any price. #Sportsshoes sells the Ride 15 from £49.99!

@@gpersonaltrainer The price is very low.

In terms of comfort, I don't have any issue wearing the Pro Plus (as it happens with the Pro 2) and they are 22 grams lighter. I've tested at the running track and (so far), the Pro Plus are the fastest shoes (on a 5K). At that price, go for it!

I've finally tested the Pro 3 at the running track (5x1K rest 2 min). Video is available in my channel. Well, Pro Plus are still 1 second faster than Pro 3 (on a 5K). Obviously, this difference is negligible and I must admit comfort in the Pro 3 is better (once I've changed insoles). I still think that for 5 to 10K distances Pro Plus are slightly faster, because they are nimble. Luckily, a shop still sells them (even in the U.K.), at £119!

As I said in the previous video, I purchased these shoes with my own money, at a very good discounted price.