No that is correct I probably sad it wrong

It works the same way in wwterbase but I have found that dyes work the best and don't put more than 10% max in the coating or it starts floating

Absolutely

@@john808welk great question I’ve been wondering the exact same. I even notice with pigmented topcoats the vinyl sealer always seems to get the waterbased topcoat to lay out smoother and silkier too, I’ve tried cic 1111 and other waterbased primers and while I was impressed with the build and hardness the surface of the finish was something left to be desired. It always seemed a little grainy with waterbased primer underneath and I’ve tried sanding up to 600 grit to see if it would improve but really it didn’t. My god is it hard to sand when catalyzed too. Vinyl sealer I can almost immediately wet sand to almost a mirror surface with 320 grit something I wish I could do with waterbased but I only can do after it’s cured for a night

I’ve been using the isolante sealer from Ilva and the Accessa version (Milesi white labeled?) due to shellac failures/problems. It has a really nice shellac/solvent look to it. It seems to really make the spec’d sheens be more true as well.

This is a good question and I don't have a straight forward answer. It's like cooking to an extent you have to find the recipe that fits the situation. The manufacturer recommendations are guidelines they aren't set in stone. If you go back and watch my video on reducing waterbase you will see the reason I choose one over the other. If you want the best flow out for the 400 series use 5% of envirolak reducer in the 400. What centurion sells isn't the best in their product

@@ericreason6559 oh okay cause when I was watching that vid I thought you said to stick with the same reducer the manufacturer sold bc it could have a bad reaction if you tried from another manufacturer bc of the different chemicals like some you said were water and isopropyl alcohol and then others were water and butyl carbitol or water and glycol ether. Either way if that’s what works for you I’m willing to give it a shot bc I love centurion 400 that has such high solids the can lasts forever especially with pressure fed hvlp. I know a few guys said the envirolak 200 was good but wasn’t as good as cic 400 without catalyst or for the price. That 300 looks awesome for those wood grain projects and outdoors tho. It’s hard to find 1k products rated for outdoors only thing I’ve come across was BM Corotech Command

I understand why you think I get something from these companies but in actuality I am getting nothing because I want to do things on my own terms. It's always been that way. Apollo did come to me about this project and asked me how much they would have to pay me to do the project and I said I don't want payment all I want is the credit for the work I have done to figure out how to make those products work with their system. There is a lot of good information in these videos even if you don't use a turbine or you don't like them. The point of these videos is to help finishers that want to use these systems not sell them.

If you use air assist do you thin the same?

@@bleu8883 it depends on the coating with air-assist I am not dealing with a fixed pressure so I can use the fluid pressure to atomize the coating or more air. With the 300 we reduce 10% with water regardless of what we are spraying with.

@@shidoin5398

@@shidoin5398 “Thank you for sharing your perspective! While it’s great that you’ve found cost-effective alternatives, some users may value the specialized features, build quality, and durability that higher-priced equipment offers. For certain applications, especially in professional or industrial settings, those added benefits can justify the price difference. Ultimately, it comes down to individual needs and preferences, but we appreciate hearing different points of view

@@joseph7105 reduce it

@@MartinReadman-hx9sm walcom

@@Addicted2Fun 🤘🤘

@@bingobunga8995 yep i understand

@@ericreason6559 you think adding reducer would get it to dry a little slower?

@@bingobunga8995 depends on what kind of reducer you are using

@@ericreason6559 that would be a good topic to cover. I find the 400 series doesn’t flow that well compared to the 1111 primer for some reason and it sprays very similar to a lacquer where if you have a small fan or a lot of overspray you get a dusty finish

@@bingobunga8995 I will once I get to the cic products

@@bingobunga8995 it is what it is.

@@kloesspecialtyhardwoods thanks bob

@@slawomirbieganski5315 yes sir

@@doomslayerforever2858 enviro clean

Thanks for watching

Yes I have sprayed them with the precision 6. It all depends on what your intended outcome is which is different for everyone. The more you can atomize a coating the better to a degree. Most coatings when sprayed with the Apollo will need to be thinned which is the same with any type of cup gun. I am not sure I understand why everyone worries so much about thinning coatings.

@@ericreason6559 Eric, thanks for the prompt and detailed reply. The issue with thinning is 1. Having to thin beyond what is specified in the TDS to get to the required # of seconds w/ the Apollo viscosity cup; and 2. Related terrible results results. First attempt was with Target Coatings. Stuff never dries. Doors were still unstackable at three weeks. Then even stuck to each other even if leaning two against one another up against a wall. Second attempt was with SW Gallery Series. Got pinholes from solvent trapping. Did all sort of stuff to try to fix it. More thinning, heating the coating, different tip/needle sets. Just couldn't get it right. Third attempt was with Envirolak 400 and switch to airless. F-ing *flawless* results with both my Tritech T5 and Graco Ultimate Quick Shot. I'm very leery of going back to HVLP after literally wasting dozens of hours with one train wreck after another. That said, my Envirolak dealer said the Apollo 6 stage is his preferred method for top coats (after spraying the primer with airless). Said you use a lot less coating because it is so efficient.

Typically the best practice is for the reduction to go last

You lose some solids but you gain a smoother surface with less sanding so it's kind of even trade

You are welcome

@@Addicted2Fun every system has some sort of compromise to it. The turbine is certainly the fixed pressure.

Just takes more skill to dial in turbine.

Appreciate your honest take. Turbine owner here who struggles with high solid waterborne finishes.

Try watering down 20% maybe

@@slawomirbieganski5315 I will do Renner stuff but you wouldn't attack it the sameway reduce until you get proper atomization

@@WheretheJones all the European manufacturers have coatings mad for plastics

@@bingobunga8995 you might be surprised that a lot of us reducers even with air-assist and airless even Dennis. There are some pretty big benefits

The crosslinker is polyazirdine and that stuff is insanely nasty and has sent a lot of guys to the hospital. I am allergic to it as well. I have seen the video on it but the gentleman that did the issue didn't tell guys about the risks of using polyazirdine. I have messed with gallery and ir has a lot of decent qualities but it's highly inconsistent.

@@ericreason6559 i did a test drive. No crosslinker.. krud kutter, and ammonia took off the finish. Not combined. Separate tests. Haven't tried solvent testing

great to see ya back, on a side note that sherwin finish isn't meant to be cross linked and it is garbage paint I definitely wouldn't use in on any kitchen finish.

@tomaxxxx536 there is a video of a guy using the sayerlack crosslinker in gallery series. Supposedly, the gallery is sayerlack relabled

@@tomaxxxx536thanks it's a weird coating for sure. We tried it once and it was okay then we tried it again and it was terrible and we couldn't get it to lay out at all. It looked like the surface of the moon. Although I have seen some that have good luck with it. 🤷

@@bingobunga8995 I haven't found these transfer efficiency numbers to be accurate. To many factors to really quantify accurate transfer efficiency

How do isocyantes float through a filter cartridge.

@@brianmccarthy6059 Amazon harbor freight

As they say there is no accounting for taste

@@brianbrantner awesome

@@joecarrr I use the 3m stuff. I have tried harbor freight and the cups get smashed so easy they are a one time use

@ericreason6559 be careful with the 3m cups. I never had a problem with them in the past but this last box that I got, it seems like the caps are too loose in the gun just pops off.

@@joecarrr are you using the 2.0 or 1.0 system

@ericreason6559 I'm using the 1.0 right now. I've been debating on switching to the 2.0 system but with three guns that's an expensive investment. What are your thoughts on the 2.0 system? They definitely look like it would mitigate the problem I'm having with the cup falling off of the gun .

@@mikedanahy8298 thanks Mike hopefully it's making sense

Thanks glad you are getting something out of it

Yes I have the WS400 that has the split tip.

It was the centurion 1108 but we will get into that in later videos

@@ericreason6559 thanks I wasn’t sure but had a suspicion it was CIC lol. I know you said you’re gonna cover that in the following vids but do you prefer the single component for your primer now or do you think the 1107 performs better. I’ve been using SW white vinyl sealer p63w2 for my white and pastel topcoats since that’s what’s readily available to me in my area. I thin it with acetone over lacquer thinner bc it dries faster and has better hang and I can sand it in about 15-20min usually I don’t sand it much since it goes on so thin and I just put 3 coats on. But it’s been annoying bc I usually have to glaze a lot of areas on the surface with red bondo and honestly that stuff isn’t that hard. I feel like your formula is better bc it gives you that build and coverage for a true 2 coat system even if you have to wait a little longer for it to dry. I want to make the switch. I think iwata has superior tech imo

@@bingobunga8995 we are running a hybrid primer system currently we use envirolak t-9000 for our first coat and then the 1108 ER which I had cic make for me custom. That's a good system as well to run 1107 first at 10% then put 1108 or 1111 on top. We run that system as well. The single works for mdf and most wood substrates but you can get tannin issues from just the 1108 and you will need to spot prime

You bet

Interesting that the B had a wider pattern than C given other things being equal. Not that you can’t interchange caps with needles, but it’s almost as if Apollo purposely guides towards an A cap with a smaller needle (0.8, 1.0) and D cap with larger needles (2.0,2.5). One would think a larger cap yields an opportunity for a wider pattern, not given a fan adjustment dial or fluid adjustment change.

@@customrefinishingSTL I know it's interesting it's the same with every other company.

@@bingobunga8995 I did try gallery and it had a lot of good properties but it was super inconsistent and I really didn't like the way it laid out compared to other products but yeah I cna give it a go on the show at somepoint

@@ericreason6559 thanks boss! I really would like your review and input on it in comparison to the other products you prefer. I know there’s some troubleshooting you’ll have to do with any product to get it to perform and finish the way you want it to. I have noticed Gallery can’t go on thick or heavy otherwise there’s lots of orange peel and you’ll need to sand the orange peel down. It also goes on better when the surface is extremely flat and smooth as gallery is very thin and will show any imperfection that’s underneath. It doesn’t have the same level of solids or build that the 2k products have. It does best at 2-2.5psi out of the PPS cup and a 1.4mm tip. I get a glass smooth finish and I put the fan on it so it’s dry in about 20min even in hot humid outdoor weather. I have watched you for a few years now and you have taught me so much. I would really like to try some centurion cw-1107 and the 2800 topcoat 2k products and compare it to crosslinked gallery series. I’ve just been using Sherwood vinyl sealer p63w2 as the primer and I know that can be catalyzed too but I use it as a 1k. I use CA Tech FE-Line guns with the green compliant air cap. I think that really is the magic to making it all work for me. I cannot believe I can get a better finish than these big cabinet manufacturers like Wellborn and it’s all because of guys like you that have paved the way. You inspire me

@@RobertFlanagan-zd3vh have you tried cross linking the final topcoat with the Sayerlack waterborne crosslinker xa4081000? I don’t usually use dark colors and I’ve only used gallery in the clear and white base so I can’t attest for the film properties of the deep base. I would assume if you used a dark colored primer and used the clear base tinted to the tricorn you would have better adhesion but it may take more coats to achieve the same coverage. I have had problems with adhesion to edges in the past with 30yr old oak cabinets bc of the porous nature of the wood it traps oils and contaminants deep into those pours you can’t clean out and will migrate out of the wood as you are priming and painting it. Real PITA best way I’ve overcome that is to catalyze and crosslink the film to prevent the lifting issue that happens when the crap tries to travel out and locks those contaminants into the wood. But oak has always been a pesky wood to seal. Another curious thing I’ve noticed Renner and Centurion have different sheen for their satin finish than Gallery does. Gallery is a 20 gloss and the 2k stuff all seems to come in 30 sheen for some reason. Also I have yet to figure out how to get a true 2 coat system out of SW products. I don’t seem to reach the full luster of sheen until the second topcoat the first coat always seems to be a little flatter for some reason. But then again that could be bc I put it on very thin bc if I go too heavy I get orange peel. So that’s why I asked Eric if he could compare gallery to these 2k polys and give us his input and experience.

Thanks for tunning back in. Envirolak is awesome!!!!

Airless makes spraying waterbase very easy. Glad the centurion products worked so well for you.