When Leyline of the Guildpact came out I went 3-2 in a modern MODO league with coalition victory zoo. That was one of my favorite ever decks to play

But basic land type is mountain, forest, etc and not the color it produces, so you would need a minimum of two lands, no? Like a Triome and another, or a dual. You couldn't win with 1 land unless you had something like Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, and then you would need 2 creatures? No 1+1 victory.

The unfortunate part of CV is that it folds to removal. Someone casts CV, another person responds by pathing the WUBRG creature (or any of the five colors), and CV resolves with no effect. It can definitely be unbanned for power level concerns, but its always been on the ban list for making games boring, not for being a good strategy. And afaik they no longer balance around anticlimatic play patterns, so imo it should be unbanned.

Dryad of the Ilysian Grove

I think what a lot of people in this comments section are missing is that while it may not be as good as some win cons in the current format, it is unfun. And having win cons with similar or faster speed that come out of nowhere (demonic pact and thassas oracle for example) is not a reason for this card to be unbanned, but should be a reason to consider those cards and decide whether or not they are in fact ban worthy Also, love the shirt!

Layline of the guild pact

Leyline of the Guildpact

8 mana too cheap to win the game? Well which is easier to win with- Coalition Victory or Createrhoof Behemoth?

We're talking about coalition victory being broken? You HAVE to be in 5 colors to play it, it costs eight mana, need a basic of every type and a creature thats all colors(not the hard part about coalition) and it has to resolve lol. Thassa's oracle demonic consultation, 3 mana and you win, just like that. Not to mention creature spells are harder to interact with

“8 mana to automatically win the game with just two cards is insane” Thassa’s oracle is laughing

In a 60 card format, youd be hard pressed to play it. In commander though, It's one of the most broken cards ever. Either way, it's not a fun interaction.

Love how they don't mention enough card names. Lol

Responding to coalition victory, Angel’s Grace? Play my own 5 color deck and Narset’s reversal? Twincast? Pregame action put Leyline of anticipation on the battlefield, in your upkeep flash in memnite, lotus petal, crack lotus petal sac memnite for culling of the weak, cast cranial extraction naming coalition victory? Blood moon?

I can have that mana turn 3 😂

An 8-mana sorcery that requires at least two other conditionals in order to win the game, all which can be easily interacted with, isn't as gamebreaking as you think it is.

Didn't even mention leyline of the guildpact, and this card still isnt good

Thoracle still in the format and we argue on a 8 mana sorcery ?

A single counterspell for 2 blue

pshh.... its not that strong even with tricks. There are standard decks that win turn 2. ok ok i think they are talking about commander. you are really going to tell me nobody stopped them from setting that up then casting it? thats at least 3 card combo its not that bad for real. so many other things to worry about besides that.

I play Prismatic bridge but only with cards from Kaldheim set and pre cons.

wubrg commander, prismatic omen, tons of tutors. win the game turn 4-5. easy

Absolutely love the “Always Was, Always Will Be” shirt!😍

There are a thousand other ways to win the game for 8 mana that arent in 5 colors

always was, always will be based.

Yes, a WUBRG creature counts as all 5 colors and an everywhere land counts as all 5 types Notes and Rules Information for Coalition Victory: When Coalition Victory resolves, it checks for the five basic land types (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, Forest) and the five colors (white, blue, black, red, green). If a single land has multiple types and/or a single creature is multiple colors, it will count all those types and/or colors. (2006-09-25)

Is isnt good. Its fun, but not good. Just by being 8 mana and not a permanent makes the spell actively unusable. Best case scenario you still need 3 cards: all color permanent, everywhere land, and victory. While the comments are mentioning thoracle combo, but even splinter twin is harder to interact with, faster, and less mana, and then theres mono colored 4 mana inconspicuous snoop/goblin bombardment with kiki jiki on top deck.

Yes an everywhere land and a ur dragon and 8 mana wins. Doesn't sound unfair but also doesn't sound fun

Leyline of the Guildpact? Like everywhere land is just the jank version Also. Everywhere only has the land types you're looking for. What about your wubrg creature? Also. Omo, queen of vesuva. Citizen tokens. The list goes on.

If you are building for Coalition Victory you have a bad 5 colour combo deck, if you are just playing it on any 5 colour deck it will be a dead card in most situations. The question is more are combos Ok or not in commander. It is just wild for me that you guys play Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal, something that can go infinite turn 3 pretty easy but Coalition Victory is too much xD

This is truly way below powerful things to do compared to whats currently legal

Put elvish Champion and lord of Atlantis in the deck and put tze landcounters on opps lands 😁💪

you can get all 5 land types on t2 with an average manabase. a WUBRG commander and 3WUBRG seems like a lot. but the threat of CV alone means you can NEVER let the WUBRG player untap with their commander out. They now have the threat of a win condition and theyve done nothing. they may not even be running it, but if its legal you need to react like its still there. So if you dont include it youre punished/targeted for it. not having fun. and if you include it you're punished/targeted for it. not having fun. all regardless of your commanders actual threat level or boardstate. Its a lose/lose to just exist in the play space.

This is one reason I didn't like the former RC. Coalition Victory was fine to ban during EDH era, but since it became Commander and power creep cards that have came out since, this should have been unbanned. One of the easiest argument to unban it is the fact that Thassa's oracle isn't banned. It's a 2 card combo that can be played earlier and win. While Coalition Victory is 1 card, it still requires all the lands and at least 1 creature + the mana cost. Even if you shortcut it with leyline of the guildpact and fist of suns, you still require a creature which makes this a turn 5, 4 card combo. Second reason is it's easy to disrupt. As you mentioned you can just removal creatures or destroy lands. There's plenty of instant speed removal like generous gift, beast within, chaos warp, and anguished unmaking. Also to note with the 1st argument. The former RC said "steering folks away from this kind of experience", whats the difference between winning on turn 5-8 with coalition victory with all the setup, vs someone doing infinite mana, turns, combat phase, draws, creatures with less or the same amount of cards?

Great video! Where in australia are you guys based? I think Coalition Victory is an easy unban as compared to many 2 card infinites/win conditions like Thassas, Exquisite Blood, Niv-Mizzet Visionary and so many more Coaltion Victory requires AT LEAST 3 cards and is very susceptible to removal/countering at a very high mana cost. If you want to make casual commander more casual then just restrict all 1 mana instant speed tutors to CEDH as these are the ones that pull the win cons out of nowhere with no time to respond (and at least one turn earlier due to using left over mana from the previous turn).

I agree with Rosewater, Gavin, and RG himself who stated that no two cards should win the game together and no card should say "you win" on them. What I don't get is if they all feel this way, then how do cards continue to get printed that don't align with that philosophy?

15:46 so it’s banned as commander? I just learned of this being a thing not that long ago.

9:34 it’s just a cheaper gases cradle right? It should be unbanned

I was thinking about including Armageddon

Ok but how is this different from a 3 card infinite combo, 2 if you aren't counting your commander as a card in the combo with those combos still being legal

Wait till they find out about thoracle consultation😂

It really isn't that big of a deal.There are so many way more consistent, two car combos, some of which require three or less mana What you are describing is at minimum. A 3 card combo, requiring at least 12 Mana. More realistically seventeen total mana although it can be done over time its by no means good

From Gatherer - When Coalition Victory resolves, it checks for the five basic land types (Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, Forest) and the five colors (white, blue, black, red, green). If a single land has multiple types and/or a single creature is multiple colors, it will count all those types and/or colors.

7:00 fizzleing/ not a leagel target is unrelated to countering, you have the right idea

I need to go back through all the Episodes and build a deck of cards that Gramps dislikes

I actually agree with gramps on this one, while this is a boring win con, it could be unbanned but id either want to know its in the deck or it would make for a feels bad game (hi rule 0). That being said its also the same reason id tell people if i had a Thassa's Oracle in a deck outside of Cedh, like a merfolk deck or a blue devotion deck. @13:35 the easiest way to shortcutting the all color creature and land at the same time is if you have any creature on the field and Leyline of the Guildpact. @27:35 This is a great point, one thing i hope wotc does do with the commander panel is give an "example" pregame discussion with things like "What style of deck are you playing" "How do you plan on winning (combat, combo, or alt win con)" "If your winning with an alt win con, does it have build up or come out quickly" Honestly to fix this would be as easy as putting it on an enchantment that checks at upkeep to give even sorcery speed removal a chance to fight back. There are ways to accelerate that (Obeka, splitter of seconds/ second sunrise effects/ flash effects) but those make it feel more earned as a combo instead of a single card out of nowhere. Also, while we know what card the episode is about, I liked the wheel to see your reaction on how excited Gramps was to see whatever card it was as it was spun.

Farewell is a card that hard resets the game in a way that just adds 30+ minutes to a game. It has made me fall in love with Cyclonic Rift cause at least the caster wins the game 90% of the time! (This only applies to decks that aren't planeswalker tribal. Farewell SLAPS in planeswalker decks!)

"The loudest at the table dictates the game." I've seen a lot of those players (my cousin is one of them), so I just play slower strategies so that he can point his finger at someone else while I just build and have a good chance at winning. I love the idea of building pillowfort so that they just can't do anything to you! Might have to try that! 😂

Not good? If u don’t like casual then play Comp, or yet have a table who wants to play Comp and use the most broken and bullshit cards to win turn 2 or 3, if that’s fun for you then by all means. But don’t go shitting around one card that’s “boring”. Games are meant to be played longer cuz it’s fun. You ain’t gonna win anything in any game with turn 2 or 3.

It’s just a game. Nobody is forcing you to play. It can’t be better it can only be what it is.

The console free play joke is never gonna get old. It’s not funny, but the fact that you love it so much is 😂